A-Rod admits and apologizes
by kershaw_equals_stud on Feb 9, 2009 3:16 PM EST
Email
Printhttp://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-rodriguez-steroids&prov=ap&type=lgns
A-Rod may have let down alot of his fans but at least he is more of a man than most. I must say when I found out I was very disapointed. I always though maybe just maybe A-Rod is a pure baseball player. The fact that he can face the media and his fans and say yes I took steriods and I regret my decisions goes a long way in my opinion. Maybe it wasn't his decision (lawyers, agents, Yankees management) but either way I think this is better than how some other players have taken steroid accusations. aka bonds, palmerio, clemens.
74 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Can we move on now?
Hell, at this point, even let Bonds go.
All this griping about steroids is ridiculous when players have been cheating for decades. I know that argument’s been rehashed over and over again, but I’m incredibly frustrated. This was a major screwup by the Office of the Commissioner and the MLBPA, and it’s just wrecking the game.
When Bonds admits that he knowingly took them...
then I say drop all charges. But I also wouldn’t want him in the HOF and he will always be tainted in my eyes (not that it matters to anyone else).
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
+1
I was actually saddened to hear A-Rod took roids. I really wanted to believe that he was doing it naturally. I wanted him to break the records that Bonds has so a clean player would have them. I may not be the biggest A-Rod fan (as a Mariner fan, I planned on always respecting him, even if I didn’t like him much) but I was hoping that I would always be able to look up at his numbers and hold them as being true.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
I just dont know what "naturally" means in terms of actual numbers
Even if we assume that until steroid testing he was tainted (which is a big assumption), he had to be blood tested for the WBC back in 2006, there have been tests that he has passed since 2004, so unless you are completely cynical, you have to assume 2007 was clean, 2005 was clean, 2008 was clean, etc. Those numbers stand up to any numbers he ever had.
If he averages 30 homers a year for the remaining 9 years on his contract he will end up with 823 homers for his career. with 14 years of his career being in the era where they have had penalties and testing for steroids.
It will be a very interesting case.
Check out my baseball analysis blog FANalytics
Hrm..
I’ve actually thought more about this than I care to admit, and I can’t help but think about A-Rod’s 2006 season. It was a decidedly down year heading into September that season, and if you recall, A-Rod looked…pudgy for lack of a better term. He had been blood tested for the WBC, which means he was almost certainly clean as I can’t imagine he’d ever have the sort of drive necessary to get around IOC/WADA-style testing. Furthermore, the primo he was using is used to cut fat and bloat off the body. IIRC, A-Rod’s 2007 season was a product of getting down to some unfathomably low bf%. My guess? A-Rod’s use runs 2000-2005, 2007-08.
Then again, he’s just screwy enough for it to be 01-03, and then 07. There’s no way I buy his 2007 season as clean, and I said as much at the time.
This is interesting
<em>In a 2007 60 Minutes interview with Katie Couric, Rodriguez flatly denied ever taking steroids. “For the record, have you ever used steroids, human growth hormone or any other performance-enhancing substance?” Couric asked.
“No,” said Rodriguez. “I’ve never felt overmatched on the baseball field. I’ve always been a very strong, dominant position. And I felt that if I did my work since I was, you know, a rookie back in Seattle, I didn’t have a problem competing at any level. So, no.”
A-Rod
To start off I am completely bias. A-Rod has been my favorite player since he got into the league. And since I started following baseball. With that said….
I am very happy he apologized. Although an apology doesn’t let one off the hook – and it shouldn’t – it is far more respectable than what Clemens or Bonds have done. Citing his nativity and pressures are aspects of life that most if not all can relate too in some point throughout their respective careers.
Lastly, he spoke about the culture – something that people don’t talk enough about. Without any clear evidence, I can safely say that first and foremost he wasn’t the only player on steroids back then. Second, that the amount of pitchers who have taken PEDs is higher than most think.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
I apologize for bringing it up again
I am sick of all the talk as well. My emphasis on this is that he apologized. He didn’t deny it. Kudos to you A-Rod. Break the home run record but somehow keep the Yankees from being succesful.
by kershaw_equals_stud on Feb 9, 2009 4:39 PM EST reply actions
He only admits..
after the truth has already been revealed. He never admitted anything before the proof was out. I’m not sure how that makes him more of a man, but whatever.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
So...
you still put him in the same boat as Bonds, who has been denying it for years and years now. A-Rod admitted it two days after the story came out. Now, I don’t think there is a huge difference in the two, but you have to at least give him a little more respect than you do Bonds and Clemends who are still lying.
Do you feel differently about Giambi and Pettitte than you do Bonds and Clemens? I know I do.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
Puts you in a slightly different position
when you’ve lied to a grand jury about it. A-Rod never broke the law when he lied about it.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Apologizing and Admitting it
Does it really make a difference? The fact is that he took steroid, clemens took steroid, brady anderson probably took steroid, Bonds took steroid. Just because he admits it doesn’t make him any better of a person than Clemens or Bonds, he’s just smarter.
And all of the above player(besides Anderson) should be in the Hall of Fame. Clemens was probably the best pitcher ever.
-1
The balls it takes to come forward and take full responsibility for his actions makes him much better of a person than Bonds (who is letting his trainer sit in jail on contempt charges) or Clemens (who even threw his wife under the bus). As someone who was never a huge A-Rod fan, he impressed me just a bit with the way he handled himself today.
-1
Alex lied through his teeth throughout the “admission”. Every word he said was carefully planned. Even the parts he owned up to were crafted in a way that managed his accountability and kept him from getting into any real trouble.
Take it from somebody who’s told a few lies in his time. Alex Rodriguez says whatever he has to say, in a way that he thinks will put him in the best possible spot. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen the guy say one thing that seemed genuine.
my point being that the admission don't make the crime any better
a neighbor here just got seriously pranked. He found out who did it and contacted the police, the person apologized sincerely today, you think it’s going to make too much of a difference? no!
by playingwithfire on Feb 9, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
+1 this is all very tiring, and quite frankly too much is being made of steroids, imo.
‘clean’ and records: what a joke! How the hell do you want to define clean? It isn’t that easy: go ahead and try. What do you want to do with greenies? And that brings in the issue of comparing different eras, of which racial segregation, varying degrees of skill development, ball doctoring, and amphetamine use will all have to be discussed along with roids.
And while I do think steroid use is wrong, it really isn’t that easy a call as some out there seem to think. Really, try unpacking what ‘unfair advantage’ might mean, and then what ‘natural’ means, and see if you can say’ highly advanced diet analysis with rigorous training counts as ‘natural’ and is not an unfair advantage—-and do so while being able say steroids are in principle wrong, without being open to a reductio ad absurdum, and not being purely ad hoc. You can get there, but it isn’t easy.
And the ‘what about the children’ bit is largely nonsense, in the vein of saying video games and violent tv are corrupting the youth.
also, it is damn difficult to figure out what effects steroids have with ball players. To be sure, it allows one to extend their career, and recover from injuries faster. It certainly increases strength, but it is hardly a magic bullet. Many took it who didn’t produce any different or better. And fluke shit happened before roids, and will after. We all know steroids have had an effect, but it is damn hard to quantify it, especially in particular cases.
Bonds and Clemens are asses, but steroids or not, they were two of the best players to have ever played. It likely extended their carreers, but so what? So Bonds got the HR title? So what? Is he any less great if he wound up around Ruth (which he might have very well done naturally? Hell no!
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
oh
Clemens was not even the best pitcher in his generation. A hell of a pitcher, but not the best.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
just curious, who do you think is?
I can make an argument for Maddux, but he didn’t face DH all those years or pitch in the AL East.
by playingwithfire on Feb 10, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
I can make an argument for Maddux...
as the best pitcher ever. It wouldn’t even be that difficult.
Maddux, Pedro, Johnson
You could make a case for any of them above Clemens.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
I think that's the four in the discussion
If we’re going by peak its Pedro.
However, I think all arrows point towards Clemens legitimately, unless you discount him for PED use. Strictly by the numbers/translated numbers/whatnot there really isnt any way you dont come up with Clemens as the answer. Go through the exercise if you want… any peak arguments from down to Petey and Clemens, and Clemens peak was longer, though Pedro’s was brighter. For Maddux, the argument comes down to longevity and Clemens has him beat on that count. He was a better pitcher for longer and had a better peak.
Let me put it this way… There really isnt an argument for the Unit, but he’s probably in the top 8, 10 of all time. If you go Clemens vs. Pedro, the longevity gives Clemens a great deal more value. If you go Clemens vs. Maddux there is no way you can argue peak or longevity for Maddux unless youre discounting Clemens for PEDs. Even with that I still would think Maddux comes up top 5/7 of all time as well, depening on how you value Walter Johnson, Alexander, Grove, etc…
Im not saying its not legitimate for us to discount Clemens, but he surely has the strongest argument if you dont…
I think you better take another look at Maddux' peak.
He had a period of 7 consecutive years where his ERA+ was over 162, and possibly the two best back-to-back years in history, where it was over 262 in both. Clemens never had a stretch with any kind of consistent dominance approaching that.
The difference between the two is that Maddux had a traditional peak where he was incredible, and then spent a lot of time just being very, very good as he got older. Clemens was much more inconsistent, but had some dominant seasons at ages where most pitchers are coasting to the end of their careers.
I wonder how he was able to buck those aging trends.
Seriously lol... +1
For all the talk of people ripping A-Rod.. I didn’t see many ripping Pettitte.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
Pettite has been texting A-Fraud
4-5 times since this broke, wonder what he was telling him. Most likely, come clean A-Fraud and admit it was a “mistake” and you used “poor judgement”, the same standard apology everybody but Clemens and Bonds have used. I’d rather see him break down and cry and say “I’m not here to talk about the past”. Now thats good TV
Oh ok.
So all time great players are supposed to have a different moral compass that a(n) all-star, starter, bench, or minor leaguer?
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
I don't think that
was his point Metty – it was talking about the public in general not picking up on Pettite because he’s not as big of a star. It doesn’t have to do with what the athletes themselves think.
If that is so-
And it could be. Then I miss read the point. Then why do we hold people to a different standard based on their accomplishments? Shouldn’t we be judging based on the crime/allegation not based on the accused status?
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
If that was the case...
the media would have to dedicate a lot more time to people who got busted smoking pot in the last few weeks. You hear about it when it’s Mike Phelps. Not so much for Joe Schmoe. Bigger name = more people interested = bigger story.
+1
Also, because Petitte admittedly only used HGH to get back from injury. ARod, on the other hand, used for two years, one of those his MVP season.
Also, just because a player apologizes and is “sincere” does not mean we should forgive him for this. He obviously isn’t in the same boat as Bonds and Clemens, but he also isn’t in the same boat as “as far as we know non-juicers” like Junior. It just means he has a good PR man.
In some ways, I feel bad for ARod and the other 103
Look, he deserves the heat for what he did. I don’t have a problem with that.
He deserves heat for the Katie Couric interview. I don’t have a problem with that.
I don’t know if I buy that ARod just used during those years. I think I buy it, but I don’t know … and I’m not sure I care all that much.
But at the end of the day, if this wasn’t ARod, this wouldn’t be such big news. In a world where we have so many things going wrong, seeing this pop up on more than just sports information is just, eh. ARod gets heat because of his contract, because of who he is, and I don’t have a problem with that either, as he took the money so he had to know it was coming. That’s the price you pay, and he had to know that, with that contract, people will ask. But what was he supposed to do? Turn down that contract? Blame Hicks for that contract.
And in regards to the list in general – there seems to be a lot of people saying, let’s find out the 103 and then we can move on. The reality is, there are a lot more people who took PED’s than this list and the names that have come out already. The search for that 103 is going to be more witch hunt than letting baseball move past things. And the reality is, some of those that were clean in their 2003 tests might’ve been taking some substances as well, but weren’t showing up on tests, or tests weren’t available.
The best statement today? From ESPN
“They are looking in the wrong places,” Canseco said in a text message to The Associated Press. “This is a 25-year cover-up. The true criminals are Gene Orza, [union head] Donald Fehr and [commissioner] Bud [Selig]. Investigate them, and you will have all the answers.”
_____________________
At the end of the day, there are always those trying to find ways to be better at what they do. Enforcement will always trail “development” in that regards, as the desire to find a way around things always comes before finding a way to enforce things. In that regards, it wouldn’t surprise me if some players are using illegal substances now. Players have used illegal substances in the past, and they will in the future.
_____________________
The question has become, how do we judge this era? I don’t have the answer for it, but simply saying this era doesn’t count is ridiculous. It happened. If you want to stick an asterisk by it, fine. Thing is, I’d bet good money that if people in previous decades could take PED’s, some of them would have, and the question of “legitimacy” would have begun long ago.
_____________________
Let me end by saying this – I’m not letting ARod off the hook. He deserves heat, and he’ll get it. But part of me is so, eh to the whole thing now.
The saddest thing in all this? Unless Clemens, ARod, or Bonds were taking PED’s in college and in the minors, which I doubt, then three of the most talented baseball players ever had their histories tarnished. All three could’ve had great careers without PED’s. HOF careers? Maybe. But this isn’t, well, Fernando Vina. These were three supremely talented players.
The other thing that this made me thing of was – how good was Ken Griffey Jr.? Assuming that you aren’t cynical and buy that KG Jr. (and the Big Hurt) were clean in their prime, their performances really deserve more merit in regards to what they did.
And a guy like Lance Berkman or Chipper Jones, who most think didn’t take anything (but then again, who knows), well, they are putting together careers that, assuming they are clean, will get a lot more attention as time goes by.
Should be stripped of his MVP
If whoever finished 2nd in MVP voting that year didn’t test positive he should be awarded the MVP
can you be certain that
Delgado was never on PED’s? I’m sorry to be cynical, but I just don’t see the point of stripping the MVP. What good does it do? IIRC, Delgado had a performance drop after 2003 as well.
Look, I don’t think Delgado used PED’s. Well, I don’t know what I think, but I don’t know if Delgado used PED’s. At what point are you going to go back in time and strike things out as a result, though. And should we go back to earlier decades when people were using speed and other substances?
What about all those players who used greenies?
They were rampant until last season. Where do you stop. Willie Mays used greenies. While we’re striking records, lets strike his too
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
yeah...
a drug (or whatever it is) developed in the 60s will definitley have as good of an effect as one created in todays lab. greenies were not prevalent “until last season”
Greenies are speed. And they most certainly were relevant.
And they were most certainly illegal. And they gave the players an advantage over their peers. How much of an advantage? I have no idea. Just like I have no idea how much of an advantage steroids gives someone on the baseball field. Certainly there is an advantage in the weight room, but how does that translate to bat speed and increased performance?
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
Big, HUGE difference
between greenies and today’s performance enhancers. It’s night and day. Punishments should fit the crimes. You don’t get death penalty for speeding.
And...
Certainly there is an advantage in the weight room, but how does that translate to bat speed and increased performance
That’s a bit of a sticking your head in the sand statement… just look at the numbers. It’s not that hard to see. Players don’t hit their peak between 35-40. Players didn’t hit 60 HR’s routinely.
+1
The effect of steroids in baseball shows up pretty clearly in the aging patterns of hitters over the last 15 years. You’ve got guys maintaining numbers into their late thirties, and in some cases, improving them. That doesn’t happen naturally.
If you want to see what a natural Hall-of-Fame talent’s aging pattern looks like, take Ken Griffey Jr or Frank Thomas. They started to break down in their early thirties, and even while they were still productive, their depleting power and reflexes show up as decreased HR/F and Swing %.
By the way, Thomas (who has been a vocal critic of baseball’s PED culture) is one of the biggest victims of the results of steroids in baseball. Assuming he hasn’t “taken” (which would be very surprising, given his criticism and aging pattern) he is one of the greatest hitters of all-time—something that gets overshadowed because his numbers don’t look as amazing while everyone in their late-30s is still hitting.
Frank Thomas on steroids could hit 40 HRs at 45 years old.
Hurt
No doubt about it – Thomas is over shadowed because of the roid era. Even so – he has eye-popping numbers with or w/o PED’s. Once the smoke clears a little on all of this (the other names are released and some historical perspective is able to be applied) and it’s time for him to be voted on, I can see him being the first unanimous HOF’er. As unlikely as it is given that no one has accomplished that yet – I think he has a good chance for it to happen…
Considering his fielding I doubt he will be
Not that he doesn’t deserve to be a HoFer, but I’m sure somebody will complain that his not being a good 1B makes him not worthy of the position
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Feb 11, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose that's true...
and there’s always the obligatory a-holes that write for rival teams that will leave him off just because…
Americans are suckers for an apology
It’s ridiculous. Do anything you want. Get caught. Suddenly say you are sorry for doing it (which you obviously don’t feel regret until after you get caught)
My Thoughts Exactly
A-Rod would have taken this to his grave if he could have gotten away with it. After getting caught, there were two choices. He could go the Bonds/Clemens route and deny, deny, deny – which leads to nearly universal hatred from the public. Or he can admit it which leads to instant forgiveness – and even adoration from some. It makes me sick. His apology was based solely on his own best interest and he should be treated just like all the other cheaters…
Just looking at a list of MVP's
leaves me questioning guys like Canseco, Vaughn, Caminiti, Jaun Gonzalez, Sosa, Bonds, Giambi, and now A-Rod. Thats a good percentage of the awards handed out, there is no way that you can start stipping the MVP’s.
A-Fraud
ARod only admitted it because its the right PR thing to do. He saw the difference between the way the deniers Bonds, McGwire, etc. were treated and those who offered a fake apology Pettitte, Giambi, etc. He knows if he takes the PR hit now that it wont follow him as badly down the road as it would if he tried to deny it for the rest of his career. The whole ‘apology’ thing is a joke, everyone is sorry after they are caught, it doesn’t make what he did any better. But the media is full of drama queens who will go along with the whole ‘well I think he’s really sorry’ line of crap. Whatever gets them another headline.
cheating
Players have been cheating since forever. Are you still entartained as a fan? If so many players were taking PEDs, then perhaps the playing field was just as level than if no one took them.
I just don’t understand guys like Rodriguez, Bonds and Clemens taking them. I understand Benji Gil taking them and making $225k a year as a reserve player instead of $40k in the minor leagues.
Perhaps Canseco isn’t as insincere as we all (or at least I) originally thought.
If A-Rod would have denied it
all these people that are complaining about him apologizing would be complaining about him denying it and saying “be a man fess up”. A-Rod cheated. He apologized. Maybe he apologized for PR reasons. Maybe he apologized to help ensure his spot in the hall of fame. But he apologized and yes the general public is going to be accepting of this apology. Is that not what an apology is inclined to do? In my opinion the only people who have the right to say his apology is not legit are the people who know him personally.
by kershaw_equals_stud on Feb 10, 2009 9:41 AM EST reply actions
He apologized because he had no other options
As you say, if he denied the media lynch mob was ready to crucify him.
So, because he took the only reasonable option to him we should applaud this guy, even though the issue here is he took steroids and lied about it?? Screw that. You want to hold a parade for him, go for it. Im still stuck on the fact he used steroids.
Also, I want to see him apologize to Kate Couric AND every other player who has been caught for steroids for that pompous, d-bag " I never felt overmatched on the baseball field. I’ve always been in a very strong, dominant position" comment.
His apology was meaningless, too. And he wouldnt say where he got it from, and he pretended to not know what it was he took – bull***. He’s a professional f***ing athlete. No way he didnt ask what was being injected in him. Loosey-goosey my a**. So basically, the entire thing was Boras planned damage control and spin designed to try to limit the allegations to his Texas days so the Yankee fans dont kill him this season. I dont think its going to work.
Thoughts
- First of all, release the whole list of 103 players, not just A-Rod. Sure, he’s the biggest name and the one that will get the lion’s share of the attention, but c’mon… he’s clearly being hung out to dry here when over 10% of the league tested positive for some kind of PED. I surely do not feel sorry for A-Rod, but there’s a sensationalism here that’s just the worst kind of tabloid crap.
- I don’t buy this whole lying to Katie Couric crap.. what the hell was he supposed to do in that case? Incriminate himself? Those that are flaming him for that… ask yourself if you’ve done something incriminating in your past and if you would be so ready to admit it to the nation. Ever drive after drinking a little too much? Ever smoke pot? Yeah, I thought so. Bunch of hippocrites.
- I agree with John Sickels on this one.. I am extremely saddened more than anything else. Even if he did it only from 2001-03, it taints what he has done. I’ve always thought of him as the perfect player and now there is a cloud that hangs over his career. It’s a damned shame.
- To the A-Rod haters and those that just want to pile on: I hope you have the same vitriol if your favorite player (or at least one on your favorite team) is on the list, whether it’s Jeter or Big Papi or Pujols or whomever else it would be. It sucks no matter who it is and bothers me as a fan of baseball, first and foremost.
I said it on the other thread and I'll say it on this one too.
The hypocrisy associated with this whole steroids thing just blows my mind. There are probably a few of you who genuinly would not, under any circumstances, take PED’s if you were a professional athlete. But the majority of you absolutley would if it meant more money(adn you know in your heart of hearts who you are).
Slurve said that he understodd if a guy was a 4A guy and it was the difference in being on a major league roster or not(pretty much the difference between making 40K and 250K). But A-Rod was always a great player so he doesn’t understand why he would do it. I look at it differently. These guys have such a small window to make every last penny they can while its their time to shine. Now if that ceiling is 3 million over 5 years for some players or upwards of a half billion in A-Rod’s case, who is anyone to say when enough money is enough? If he can make that much money, why not do it? Isn’t that the point of America?
You can all cast the first stone. I won’t do it though. He hasn’t used for 5 years and his numbers have been just as good.
Whatever.
Chuck
I agree - Noonan is as valuable as a dead horse… and he too should be beaten by some dude in a top hat who looks like he’s holding his junk.
by cool hand Charlie on Feb 10, 2009 12:15 PM EST reply actions
I don't think it's quite about money
Taking him at his word, he said he only took it in 2003, after he signed the mega-contract with the Rangers. Presumably he did it because he wanted to be as good as he possibly good be, and he thought this was the way to do so. It was a stupid thing to do, both because of the legal and medical aspects, but I don’t think it was just to get a few more dollars
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Feb 10, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Hasn't used in 5 years
Sorry, but that’s just as naive a comment as believing he had never used. He just hasn’t been caught again.
+1
You been hanging around him? It seems at least equally likely he moved on to designer stuff that doesnt show up in tests. Do I have any proof of that? No, of course not… BUT just as much evidence that he stopped doing it, as you propose.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
