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Pittsburgh Pirates Top 20 Prospects for 2010

Pittsburgh Pirates Top 20 Prospects for 2010

All grades are EXTREMELY PRELIMINARY and subject to change. Don't get too worried about exact rankings at this point, especially once you get beyond the Top 10. Grade C+/C guys are pretty interchangeable depending on what you want to emphasize. Complete reports on these and over 1,000 other players will be in the 2010 Baseball Prospect Book, now available for pre-order, shipping on February 2nd!

Star-divide

1) Pedro Alvarez, 3B, Grade A: Bat looks excellent. Even if he moves to first base, his bat will be good enough for him to be an All-Star. Upside: David Ortiz.

2) Jose Tabata, OF, Grade B: I don't know if I agree with the Pirates about his power, but I do believe them about his age and at 21 he is still VERY young with high upside.

3) Tony Sanchez, C, Grade B: He was a slight overdraft but I like him, excellent defense and it doesn't look like his power was all aluminum.

4) Zack Von Rosenberg, RHP, Grade B-: This is an aggressive grade for a high school pitcher with just one pro inning under his belt, but I really like his pitchability and have a strong intuitive feeling about him. He still has some projection left, too. Going to take a risk with this one and put him ahead of Alderson and Lincoln.

5) Tim Alderson, RHP, Grade B-: Borderline C+. Loss of velocity and break on the curve is troubling, but he's still a guy who held his own in Double-A at age 20. Stock has dropped but still an intriguing property as an inning-eater type. Ranks ahead of Lincoln because he's younger.

6) Brad Lincoln, RHP, Grade B-, Borderline C+.. Command looks all the way back, but components are more those of an inning-eater type than a true ace.

7) Chase D'arnaud, INF, Grade C+: Speed, on-base ability, solid defense, might develop more pop. At worst a good utility guy and could get beyond that.

8) Starling Marte, OF, Grade C+: Uber-tools, particularly speed, but raw with the strike zone.

9) Rudy Owens, LHP, Grade C+: Outstanding K/BB ratio. Was hittable after moving up to Lynchburg, though he maintained a good strikeout rate. Great command of decent stuff but need to see in Double-A.

10) Ronald Uviedo, RHP, Grade C+: Live arm stands out but unsure of future role.

11) Victor Black, RHP, Grade C+: Another live arm, Dallas Baptist product has high ceiling but needs better control.

12) Daniel McCutchen, RHP, Grade C+: Old for a rookie at age 27, but has nothing left to prove in the minors and knows how to pitch. Another guy with a great K/BB ratio.

13) Brett Lorin, RHP, Grade C+: Sleeper prospect snapped up from the Mariners, could rank as high as 10th.

14) Robbie Grossman, OF, Grade C+: High strikeout rate is off-putting, but he also draws walks, steals bases, and has untapped power potential.

15) Diego Moreno, RHP, Grade C+: Lively relief arm came out of nowhere, need to see at higher levels but could advance quickly as a pen asset.

16) Justin Wilson, LHP, Grade C+: Component ratios at Lynchburg weren't great, but he has a good arm and lefties with above average stuff get plenty of chances.

17) Colton Cain, LHP, Grade C+: Could rank as high as 12th. Another high-ceiling arm bought away from college like Von Rosenberg, though not as polished.

18) Gorkys Hernandez, OF, Grade C: Baseball America has him at 10th on their Pirates list due to his tools, but I'm starting to doubt the bat and his skills seem to be stagnating.

19) Trent Stevenson, RHP, Grade C: Another young projectable high school arm bought out of college ball.

20) Brooks Pounders, RHP, Grade C: Less projectable than Stevenson but another interesting prep arm. The rotation in the New York-Penn League and/or Low-A is going to be really intriguing in 2010.

OTHERS: (Grade Cs): Ramon Aguero, RHP; Nate Baker, LHP; Ramon Cabrera, C; Evan Chambers, OF; Jarek Cunningham, INF; Zack Dodson, LHP; Wesley Freeman, OF; Brian Friday, SS; Brock Holt, INF; Jeff Inman, RHP; Quincy Latimore, OF; Jeff Locke, LHP; Jordy Mercer, SS; Quinton Miller, RHP; Bryan Morris, RHP; Danny Moskos, LHP; John Raynor, OF; Hunter Strickland, RHP; Donald Veal, LHP; Neil Walker, 3B.

This farm system is improving, thanks to trades, more aggressive drafting, and additional scouting in Latin America.

Alvarez is the crown jewel, of course, and there isn't a lot really that needs to be said about him. Tabata is a more difficult case, since even if they're right about his age, he risks tweenerdom if his power doesn't come along. I like Tony Sanchez a lot and people need to lay off about the decision to draft him. They poured a ton of money into projectable guys in later rounds, and I think the strategy of mixing skill players with tool players will pay dividends.

The system is thin in position players beyond the top group. I like d'Arnaud but he may end up as just a good role player and not a starter. We'll know more once he faces Double-A pitching. Marte could be anything from a big star to a huge bust. Heavy investments have been made in young pitching recently. I like Von Rosenberg the best of the bunch, but Cain, Pounders, Stevenson, Dodson, and Miller all have significant upside potential. There are also live-armed guys who could help in the bullpen relatively soon, and there are inning-eaters such as Lincoln, Alderson, and Strickland to provide some leavening to the upside guys.

If what I saw in Arizona is any indication, Donald Veal could be a surprise success in 2010.

The Pirates could use some additional bats to go with all these arms, but overall this is an organization on the right track in terms of player development. The debut of Andrew McCutchen was just the first step.

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I like the Von Rosenburg ranking

Check out my website, it has scouting reports for all the Orioles' top prospects and is updated daily. www.oriolesprospects.com

Follow me on twitter @orioleprospects and discuss the Orioles' prospects in my forums

by Jordan Tuwiner on Dec 16, 2009 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

A great and well thought out...

ranking John. I agree with almost all of it. Very nice!

by Havok1517 on Dec 16, 2009 5:51 PM EST reply actions  

Alvarez

He is going to make you look brilliant for that grade. He is going to rake.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 16, 2009 6:18 PM EST reply actions  

Thoughts:

-I’m not as high on Alderson as you are, I definitely have him as a Justin Wilson-esque C+.
-d’Arnaud really intrigues me, I’d move him up a half of a grade
-Justin Wilson seems a half of a grade too high
-I think Moskos has a future as a late inning reliever, so I’d move him up half of a grade.

The rest is on point. Good list.

by Jeff Reese on Dec 16, 2009 6:20 PM EST reply actions  

At the moment the McLouth trade doesn't look very good.

Charlie Morton was just so-so in the bigs, Hernandez hasn’t taken a step forward and Locke has some nice FIPs at A+, but nothing spectacular.

by Alex Trebek on Dec 16, 2009 6:43 PM EST reply actions  

McLouth was a 3.6 WAR this season; Morton had an FIP of 4.2, which translates to roughly 4 WAR over a full season

I have seen many projections of Morton with an ERA of 3.9 or so for 2010. If he gets that then this trade is a win for the Pirates even if Locke and Hernandez never sniff the big leagues. Even at his current level of output, Morton provides comparable value to McLouth all by himself. Furthermore, Morton’s numbers were skewed by one HORRENDOUS start at Wrigley.

by houksyndrome on Dec 16, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

IMHO, I believe this is the first list I’ve strongly disagreed with. There is no argument I can think of that would place Alderson (who struggled at AA) above Lincoln (who struggled at AAA and fanned way more batters than Tim at AA)..I’m less concerned about age difference given Lincoln’s injury history.

I don’t see why ZVR would be above a C+. That’s a super reckless ranking of a high school prospect outside of the top-end list. D’Arnaud and Lincoln should be 4/5, and Lincoln and D’Arnaud should both be B-, IMO.

by WrenFGun on Dec 16, 2009 6:49 PM EST reply actions  

Just to make sure my outcry is stats based (and not homer based), Lincoln’s performance at AAA Indianapolis:

3.9% BB Rate, 16.1% K rate, 35% GB Rate, 3.81 FIP, .342 BABIP.

The K Rate is largely in line with previous numbers, he doesn’t walk anyone…his peripherals took a bit of a dive in terms of GB rate but he was also somewhat unlucky with the .342 BABIP. I just don’t see how Tim Alderson is better (4.5% BB Rate, 14.1% K rate…WORSE once he got to Pitt)..

by WrenFGun on Dec 16, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree that Lincoln should be above Alderson. I can't see Alderson as anything more than an innings eater, while Lincoln may yet be something more than that.

However, ZVR was very highly regarded this year. In terms of prospect rankings, BA had him at #41 nationally heading into the draft. He doesn’t have the fastball velocity of the elite HS arms, otherwise he would have been right there with them. Scouts think he will gain velocity.

by houksyndrome on Dec 16, 2009 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Another small edge for Lincoln:

He’s a really, really good hitter by SP standards. Carried a 2nd/3rd round grade as an OF on draft day, IIRC.

by Vlad on Dec 16, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

D’arnaud and Locke both seem too low and, after the first thread, I thought you were going to have Veal on the top 20 the way you were adamant he shouldn’t be cut from the ranking. Overall, system is definitely much better than it was but that isn’t saying a lot.

The Pirates organization is an interesting study the past couple seasons, hopefully it works out for all of them. If so, I sure hope all those disgruntled Pirate fans stop acting like complete asses at the ball park or perhaps I’m just lucky to go every time disdain has spread through the stands like wildfire.

by jfish26101 on Dec 16, 2009 7:46 PM EST reply actions  

Why isn't D'Arnaud a B-?

His stats at high A were really good. He has shown some power and takes lots of walks. He also seems like a decent bet to stay at SS. The only thing that worries me at all with his stats are that he K’d in 19.5% of his ABs at high A.

by houksyndrome on Dec 16, 2009 7:56 PM EST reply actions  

He did have a 0.181 ISO and a 0.400 OBP at high A. I know that drawing a walk doesn't count as a "tool".

but 0.181 ISO is pretty good for a short stop and power is a “tool”. Are you saying that he doesn’t have the defensive ability to stay at SS? If he can stay at short, he could hit 280/360/460 which would be pretty darned good, IMO, for a short stop.

I don’t care if he ever gets a single SB in his entire career, if he plays OK D at short stop and hits 280/360/460, I’ll take that over all these “toolsy” guys who are really fast but have 0.330 OBPs.

by houksyndrome on Dec 16, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Even as a Pirate fan, I’m very doubtful that d’Arnaud can ever produce a .180 ISO in the majors; his career minor league line is .291/.381/.445. I think .280/.350/.400 is probably the 80th percentile outcome for him, which would still make him a pretty valuable player at shortstop.

by shayborg on Dec 17, 2009 3:26 AM EST up reply actions  

From looking at fangraphs, the 750 OPS there would rank 10th among shortstops, so you are correct.

Also, where do you find these percentile outcomes? I have seen ZIPS projections but I didn’t realize they had them for prospects like D’Arnaud. I would really love to see a histogram of possible outcomes for guys with D’Arnaud’s minor league numbers.

by houksyndrome on Dec 17, 2009 4:39 AM EST up reply actions  

he'll get more than 1 SB

He stole 4 this year counting the AFL. Not as important as his walks and how his power developes, but doesn’t suggest a tortoise.

by wobatus on Dec 17, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

ZVR

He was considered by some to be a borderline 1st round talent. As such, a B- is a fine grade for him.

by rdf8585 on Dec 16, 2009 9:12 PM EST reply actions  

+1

He could have easily gone in the first round. In my opinion there were not many high school pitchers better than him. Purke, Turner, Matzek, Wheeler, Miller, and I would put him just below Hobgood who probably deserves a B ranking.

by joegonzo on Dec 16, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Chad James and Garrett Gould are also comfortably ahead of him.

by Jeff Reese on Dec 16, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

That's why I said in my opinion...

James has a chance, but I don’t like gould over him at all.

by joegonzo on Dec 17, 2009 7:26 AM EST up reply actions  

wow I'm very impressed with this list.....

I’m a tad surprised to see Locke outside of the top 20, but at the same time he has to prove himself much more in 2010.

Rene Tosoni is good.

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 16, 2009 9:57 PM EST reply actions  

I really don't get the big deal with him

Great numbers in short-season ball a couple of years ago, but his peripherals have been mediocre two years in a row now. Decent velocity for a lefty but really doesn’t offer much besides that.

I think John has him pegged right . . .there’s really not much to get excited about at this point. Without dramatic improvement, he’s got bullpen (and not as a late-inning guy) upside.

by mrkupe on Dec 17, 2009 2:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Brett Lorin

Is the only one the Pirates snagged that I didn’t want to give up. But I don’t think of him as that great. Still, he was the only one of the pitchers acquired by the Pirates who could start in the majors in the future. The other two, Adcock and Pribanic, will have to make it as bullpen arms.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Dec 16, 2009 10:59 PM EST reply actions  

I used to watch Jeff Clement play in high school, I am from a town about 30 miles down the road from him.

I was pumped when I found out we got him. I know he has lost his luster as a prospect, it’s just really cool having seen this guy play in HS and now he plays for my favorite team.

by houksyndrome on Dec 16, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Brad Lincoln is too low

Even if he is just an innings eater he should be at least a B-

by Birdfan01 on Dec 17, 2009 3:46 AM EST reply actions  

This.

A league average innings eater is pretty damn valuable, since he’s very, very likely to hit that projection and contribute in a significant way to the ML club.

"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West

by Blicks on Dec 17, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

I don’t think Lincoln will ever end up more than a #2 at best, but he looks to me like a great bet to be a #3 starter. I think a bump to a B- is where he belongs. John shows him on the borderline already, maybe he’ll adjust the grade later as he does with some players each year(and has done for some already).

RIP Nick Adenhart

by gatling on Dec 17, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Lincoln has yet to be the same pitcher he was in college, especially with his curveball, but when I saw him with Altoona he was about as close as he’s been. An effective third pitch and he has a chance to turn into a #2, but as it is right now he’s probably a 3/4.

by ElDuce on Dec 17, 2009 8:14 AM EST reply actions  

What happened to the South African shortstop whose name escapes me? Is he in low-A and not projected to reach the majors and a media signing or does he have potential?

I’m hoping for the later. Love the idea of more international ball.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 17, 2009 8:49 AM EST reply actions  

Gift Ngoepe

he has been playing mostly 2b/Cf. Supposedly very quick, athletic, and solid defensively, but his bat lags behind and he lacks any power

by ScottAZ on Dec 17, 2009 9:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Does he project to have more power?

Does he have potential to be an OBP guy that turns singles into doubles like Juan Pierre or a career minor leaguer?

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 18, 2009 2:03 AM EST up reply actions  

IMO

minor league fodder
little guy, not much power, not much plate discipline.
not very good combos

by ScottAZ on Dec 29, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

More importantly, what about Rinku and Danesh?

by PhillyFriar on Dec 17, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Dinesh Patel: 6.1 IP 5 H 1 ER 4 SO 0 BB

Those control numbers are nothing short of fantastic.

by ElDuce on Dec 17, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Rinku Singh wasn't too terrible either

8:4 in 12.1 IP for an FIP of 3.34

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Dec 17, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm still fascinated by both of them

Of they make it to Triple-A I’ll be elated for the future of global baseball.

P.S. – Now living in Seoul and I can’t wait for the season to start out here, but saddened there won’t be a World Baseball Classic. Would love to have gone to one of those games.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 18, 2009 2:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Gift Ngoepe

he has been playing mostly 2b/Cf. Supposedly very quick, athletic, and solid defensively, but his bat lags behind and he lacks any power

by ScottAZ on Dec 17, 2009 9:14 AM EST reply actions  

Robbie Grossman

I’m very intrigued by him and like the possibility of his upside long term. Are the K’s going to overwhelm in the end? What are the general feelings of him making a big jump this year?

by gpellet41 on Dec 18, 2009 7:57 AM EST reply actions  

Robbie Grossman

is a mini Brian Giles. The man has patience almost to a fault due to his K rate but he’s only 19. It’s gonna take 5 years for his power to fully develop but when it does WATCH OUT.

by BadAndy on Dec 18, 2009 9:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Two random thoughts

1. Daniel Moskos not even appearing on his own team’s top 20 list has to be very disheartening for Pirates fans, provided Pirates fans still exist.

2. What are the chances John Raynor makes it to the big leagues as a Brett Gardner type? Did he really fall off that much this year?

Trust me, you can count on us, we're always inconsistent
Tomorrow was like yesterday, today is always different

by fps31520 on Dec 18, 2009 12:10 PM EST reply actions  

I think some people have at least come to accept the Moskos move since it at least brought an end to David Littlefield. Well, that and trading for Matt Morris. The two moves combined showed that there was actually money there to take Wieters (or anyone else), and Littlefield just chose not to. One of those things you just kind of have to move past and hope someone learned a lesson from it.

by ElDuce on Dec 18, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Moskos

I actually don’t think he’s that bad of a prospect. I’m not really sure why he’s still being used as a starter though. He wasn’t very good at it in college and has been just as mediocre at it in the minors. He has still managed to get a ton of ground balls as a starter and I bet his stuff ticks back up to where it was pre-draft in the bullpen. He was a significant overdraft and a terrible pick, but he’s simply been miscast as a starter. I think there’s a decent chance he turns into a late inning reliever.

by Jeff Reese on Dec 19, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

uh, he looks pretty bad to me

He was mediocre as a starter in college but has been downright terrible at starting in the pros (4.7 K + 1.46 WHIP says much more than the 3.74 ERA this year).

The weird thing is that he wasn’t exactly amazing as a college reliever, either. Command was rather average and his stuff was maybe above-average at times.

He should get to the majors, but his real chance to last there is as a situational lefty. I don’t see a late-inning guy at all.

by mrkupe on Dec 19, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Most Pirates fans...

…cut bait on Moskos a while ago. Being disappointed in him not making the top 20 would be like being unhappy about Chad Hermansen’s current ranking.

by Vlad on Jan 10, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Honestly...

I think everyone in the top 7 deserves at least a B-. D’rnaud could be an above average SS, Lincoln still has a chance to be a good #2, and everyone else already is a B-. Starling Marte probably has the highest potential in the system. He has the tools to be better than McCutchen is. That is pretty amazing. Also, I think Jarek Cunningham has Gordon Beckham upside with a slightly better chance to stick at short.

by joegonzo on Dec 18, 2009 6:21 PM EST reply actions  

marte

I’m going to call misleading hyperbole here. What made (and makes) Cutch so special is the combination of above-average tools with an exceptionally polished approach for his age. Marte is toolsy but can’t come anywhere close to matching the polish.

by mrkupe on Dec 19, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Well...

John, I think you are significantly short on Lincoln and grossly long on Sanchez. The rest, including your position on Von Rosenberg, are subjective based on your talent evaluation but those two stand out loud.

by rukiddingme on Dec 20, 2009 11:28 PM EST reply actions  

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