Top 10 Yankees Prospects?
by nyy4life4 on Dec 12, 2009 9:10 PM EST
55 comments
Hey Guys,
Just wanted to get some opinions on the Yankees farm system. What do you think they should be ranked? I would start with Montero obviously and next would be Zach McAllister. Do you guys agree? Why or why not? Also, what does your top 10 look like? Last year John's rankings were as follows;
2. Ajax
3. Betances
4. Romine
5. McAllister
6. Melancon
7. Heredia
8. Brackman
9. Coke
10. Aceves
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1. Jesus Montero
2. Arodys Vizcaino
3. Manny Banuelos
4. Zach McAllister
5. Slade Heathcott
6. Austin Romine (he’d be higher but the reports on his defense lately haven’t been good)
7. Jairo Heredia
8. JR Murphy
9. Gary Sanchez
10. Bryan Mitchell
Disclaimer: I didn’t put a lot of time into this list and may have made omitted someone
by jar75 on Dec 12, 2009 9:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
8-10
Murphy is not top 10 material yet. I put him at 15. I have Sanchez at 32. He is much too raw. I have Mitchell is a guy I love, but he is all very raw out of high school and the ceiling isn’t that great so I have him at 33.
Also not a big deal, but Jairo really disappointed me come playoff time and even though I love him, I put him at 12 which is not that much further down.
I appear to be going with floor over ceiling compared to you though.
by sjkqw on Dec 13, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oohhh someone should tell him austin jackson was traded
it might have you know gotten lost in all the other blockbuster trades and signings over the past two weeks
by PHGold09 on Dec 12, 2009 10:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
and i should read more carefully
that was johns last years list lol
by PHGold09 on Dec 12, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
i was going to write the same comment when i read the post… then i realized it was johns also and i didnt post the comment..
by matthewmafa on Dec 13, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees have a farm system?
i thought it was just free agency and the disabled list for those guys
by Marinerfanjake on Dec 12, 2009 11:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mi 2's
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Dec 12, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and world series'
nice try though. the yankees farm is better than the mariners farm
by nyy4life4 on Dec 13, 2009 1:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No it isn't
Maybe it was before this year’s draft, but it sure isn’t since.
by James F on Dec 13, 2009 1:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Being the second worst team in baseball helped.
Way to show those Yankees.
by aap212 on Dec 13, 2009 5:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares?
We’re talking about farm systems. Nobody’s going to argue the Mariners are in better overall shape than the Yankees. Their farm system is significantly better, though.
by slamcactus on Dec 13, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Significantly?
In the top 150, they have the same number of prospects unless I missed someone and this is after the A-Jax trade.
Montero, Romine, Banuelos, Arodys, Z-Mac (very bottom of 150 for Z-Mac and some may dislike Romine and put him there too)
versus
Saunders, Aumont, Riddi, Gillies, Triunfel
I am probably missing someone for the Mariners, but still that isn’t that significant a drop off considering the Yankees just traded Jackson.
by sjkqw on Dec 13, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The sad part is that...
Montero’s level of talent is better than that of all the Mariners prospects. He projects to have an allstar level bat, let alone that of a superstar. Aumont projects as a reliever due to his illness or condition (whatever you want to call it), Saunders has yet to show patience and strike zone judgement at the MLB level, I can’t say much about Riddi and Gillies as I know they need more development time, and Truinfel probably will move to 3b or potentially a corner OF position (I don’t believe he can stay at SS) and if that occurs I don’t think his bat plays well at those positions. Ackley is the wildcard here depending if he’s a 1b, 2b, of CF. He also has to prove he can hit for power with a wooden bat.
In essence, if Romine Banuelos Arodys or Z-mac become regulars and Montero is an allstar or better, then the Yankees win. If all of them become regulars and Montero has a few productive all star seasons, the Yankees win. If Ackley develops into an allstar player, then it’s pretty much a wash, but if he develops into a superstar and Montero is just a regular then the Mariners win.
That being said, Montero is pretty much a complete player (either DH or 1B as I don’t believe he’ll ever be up to snuff defensively to be a C at the MLB level) with a potential big bat. At this point, I would prefer the Yankees system. Once he graduates, then the Yankees system goes to crap.
"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree
by JT12340 on Dec 13, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hm...
I could have sworn that you need 25 guys to field a baseball team, not 4. My mistake.
by slamcactus on Dec 13, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
there’s no chance Ackley’s a first baseman. If he’s not a 2B, he’s a CF. If he’s not a CF, he’s a LF. There isn’t s single scout alive who will tell you Ackley doesn’t have the tools to move up the defensive spectrum. Montero is a slightly better prospect than Ackley, not a much better one.
by slamcactus on Dec 13, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe Ackley has a superstar bat...
It’s not that I believe the Yankees have a great system, it’s the fact that Montero being a top 5 prospect makes that much of a difference.
"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree
by JT12340 on Dec 14, 2009 5:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The position adjustment is huge here. I like Montero and I think his bat is good enough to play at DH, but Ackley at 2B is a big time prospect even if he never hits for more than average power.
Montero is a top 5 prospect and Ackley is a top 10.
by jar75 on Dec 14, 2009 8:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ackley top 10?
I think top 25 is more realistic.
by sjkqw on Dec 14, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't put a list together
But Ackley would be right around #10 for me.
by jar75 on Dec 14, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re
Montero is two years younger than Ackley and has already ripped up AA. Until Ackley actually does something in pro ball you have to say Montero is the better prospect
by ScottAZ on Dec 14, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Montero...
is also a consensus DH before he’s reached his 20th birthday. He has the single worst skillset in baseball as far as aging goes.
by slamcactus on Dec 14, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lots of players
with similar skillsets. Jaff Decker for one. Brett Wallace is another that is similar. If that bat plays they will find a spot for him, and the bat is easily one of the top 5 in the minors.
Montero is regarded as fairly athletic for his size and has a cannon for an arm. Most scouts think he’d make an adequate corner OFer
by ScottAZ on Dec 15, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lots of players with similar skillsets. Jaff Decker for one. Brett Wallace is another that is similar.
That’s not exactly a glowing recommendation. More of a backhanded complement.
I agree with slamcactus’s point, but feel Montero’s bat is so premium and his performance ARL is so ridiculously impressive it overrides any concerns I have on the skillset count.
Most scouts think he’d make an adequate corner OFer
Bullshit. He is not considered athletic for his size at all. That’s basically the entire problem. He’s even been described as “sluggish.”
Montero to LF has only been bandied around by Yankee fans, and its just wishful thinking. He’s really big and slow. Yankee Stadium’s LF is huge. The Yankees value defense too much to throw Montero out there. He’s a 1B or DH if he doesnt stick at catcher.
by alskor on Dec 15, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
2 guys who haven’t reached the majors prove what, exactly?
Montero’s got an awesome bat. It’s really rare for me to consider someone with his physical profile a top-5 prospect, and yet I acknowledged above that he’s a better prospect than Ackley. He’s not worlds above Ackley, though. I slot Montero in somewhere between #4-7 or so, and Ackley’s something like #13-18 (I haven’t actually made a list, just eyeballing it, although I think Strasburg-Heyward-Stanton in some order are the clear top 3).
by slamcactus on Dec 16, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
First, as other people pointed out, you missed Ackley. And Franklin. And Poythress.
Second, depth goes way beyond appearance on top-150 prospect lists. The Mariners right now are short on star power and pitching prospects, but they have a ridiculous amount of depth in position players. Montero tips the scales if you look just at the top 1, and maybe if you look at the top-5 (probably not top-10 though). Organizational top-5 prospects aren’t the only guys who end up reaching the majors, though. If you go to 20-30, the Mariners system is far, far better than the Yankees.
I actually wouldn’t put Triunfel or Gillies in my personal top-150 if i were inclined to make one. I would, however, put Adam Moore (he’ll be a major league starting catcher next year, and I value guaranteed contribution), Ackley, Saunders, Aumont, Franklin, Matt Tuiasosopo (.322/.426/.619 in his only healthy month last season), and Liddi in there.
It’s when you move past the top handful of names that the Mariners have a depth of interesting solid prospects that the Yankees can’t match. Behind Ackley and Saunders, the Mariners’ top names are less impressive than a lot of teams. Guys like Moore and Tuiasosopo, who are guaranteed to make the majors but either have limited upside (Moore) or lack recent track record due to injury (Tui) aren’t sexy prospects in the classic sense, but they’ll provide real value to the Mariners as early as next year.
It’s the next tier where the Mariners are really, really strong. Gillies, Triunfel, Raben, Poythress, Pineda, JC Ramirez, Josh Fields, James Jones, Mario Martinez, Gabriel Noriega, Joe Dunigan, Carlos Peguero, Dan Cortes, Mauricio Robles, Jharmidy De Jesus, Ezequiel Carrera, Greg Halman (obvious caveats about his ridiculous flaws apply), and Mike Carp constitute a really, really good middle-tier that’s far better than the Yankees’.
by slamcactus on Dec 13, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not gonna lie
but the Mariners are one of like 10 systems that I don’t follow too much so I know like 5 of the guys you mentioned. I’m just gonna talk a little about the Yankee tier there not trying to definitely prove you wrong at all though.
For starters you have Wilkin de la Rosa, who if he isn’t a starter, can be an effective LOOGY. Then you have Mark Melancon who has been called a future set up man if he can’t be Mariano’s heir. I think this is more realistic then the Yankees future closer. Jeremy Bleich is another good lefty pitcher who struggled in AA in his first professional season though he did well in earlier levels. He may be a bullpen arm too, but starting is not out of the question. Slade Heathcott was the first round pick this year. He will be a strong OF who moves through the system quickly. Ivan Nova has pitched in AAA after being selected in the Rule 5 draft and may be right near the majors. Jairo Heredia and George Kontos may be very talented prospects who can be starting pitchers in the majors. David Phelps is also one of many surprises this year and dominated the Sally league. Following him is second round pick JR Murphy. DJ Mitchell is yet another starter. Andrew Brackman is also here coming off of injury and he started and ended the season well though the middle was devastating. Jorge Vazquez is a bat without a position who was signed from the Mexican League. Durability is the only issue because he hit a lot of homeruns in a pitcher’s park in limited action.
Others: Middle IFers David Adams, Corban Joseph, Ed Nunez, Jose Pirela, Kevin Russo. The DSL pair: Ed Sosa and Kelvin DeLeon. possible 2010 DH Juan Miranda. Corner IFers: Brad Suttle and Brandon Laird. Relievers: Mike Dunn (LOOGY) and Humberto Sanchez. Surprise 2010 draft pick: Adam Warren. Don’t forget Gary Sanchez. I can go on and on up to about 80 prospects, but I will wait until John does the Yankees.
by sjkqw on Dec 14, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
general rule: when you’re still in the top-10 and talking about potential effective LOOGY’s/setup men, you’re not talking about a very good system.
Montero’s a beast. The Yankees’ system sucks. Both of these things can be true at the same time.
That said, the Mariners system probably just got a little worse with this Cliff Lee rumor floating around.
by slamcactus on Dec 14, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say so
You said mid tier and not necesarily top 10. And WDR is seen by many as a starter, but the Yankees system is packed with starters so I think that the best thing is to use everyone in the best role. WDR can do a lot in the pen.
by sjkqw on Dec 14, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Now with the two trades
Yankees lost A-Jax
Mariners lose Phillippe Aumont, Saunders, and Gillies currently though I saw a Triunfel report before this one. Not definite.
Mariners system lost a lot.
Now it is Montero, Romine, Arodys, Z-Mac, ManBan, Z-Mac
vs.
Ackley, Riddi, Triunfel
by sjkqw on Dec 14, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hm...
I have a pretty low opinion of Gillies. I’ve seen him several times, talked to scouts about him, and I’m a Mariners fan, so I’ve wanted to see a good prospect there, but I just can’t see it. Saunders is a big loss, but not a huge one.
Also, Alex Liddi has been referred to as “Riddi” like 5 times in this thread. Why?
by slamcactus on Dec 14, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Because that’s how they pronounce his name in the Far East. rimshot
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 14, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's...
not even close to true. The Yankees’ top prospect is better than the Ms’, but the Mariners system is far, far deeper.
by slamcactus on Dec 13, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Vizcaino will be a 5 star prospects I bet from BP
by Bravesin07 on Dec 13, 2009 8:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
1) Jesus Montero
2) Austin Romine
3) Manny Banuelos
4) Arodys Vizcaino
5) Zach McAllister
6) Wilkin de la Rosa
7) Mark Melancon
8) Jeremy Bleich
9) Slade Heathcott
10) Ivan Nova
by sjkqw on Dec 13, 2009 9:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just read the post
Zach McAllister 2nd? I don’t think so. I’d be shocked if he was better than a #4 starter. Banuelos could be a #3 and Arodys would be a #2 possibly though they are faraway. Romine also has a higher ceiling. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Z-Mac start the year and struggle
by sjkqw on Dec 13, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's
a crapshoot after Montero really. you have a lot of medium upside medium risk guys vs a lot of high upside high risk guys.
The Yanks have done a pretty solid job in filling their holes from within really, then again, it’s a lot easier when your only looking for middle relievers and bench guys and maybe 1-2 starter. instead of looking for primary role guys.
But then, a whole load of guys that ended up filling the holes were never ranked that highly.
by RollingWave on Dec 13, 2009 8:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Alright, don't hold me to it... but if you put a gun to my head right now I would probably do:
1) C/1B/DH Jesus Montero – Impact, middle of the order bat.
2) RHP Arodys Vizcaino – Good velocity, good stuff, good numbers. High ceiling. Needs to keep doing it at higher levels.
3) OF Slade Heathcott – Nice power/speed combo OFer with the tools to be a plus defender. Allegedly had attitude problems (probably overblown) and has already had an ACL surgery.
4) OF Kelvin De Leon – Raw athletic OFer with lots of raw power. Performance hasnt matched expectations yet, but he’s still quite young and the ceiling is high.
5) LHP Manny Banuelos – Undersized LHP who impressed in 09. Doesnt have great stuff, but very good pitchability, command and deception. Ceiling not all that high due to lack of velocity and projection.
6) C Austin Romine – Athletic catcher with some power projection. Bat and glove disappointing this year.
7) LHP Jeremy Bleich – Pitchability lefty. Polished strike thrower. Not enamored of his ceiling. Probably a back end type.
8) RHP DJ Mitchell – Impressive showing in the Sally league. Raw, but projectable.
9) RHP Zach McAllister – Strike throwing groundball pitcher. Okay stuff and pretty good results. Back end ceiling.
10) RHP Mark Melancon – Reliever with very good results, but the stuff has never really matched the hype. More of a set up man than a Closer. Injury concern as he has a violent delivery and has already had TJ.
HM) CF Abraham Almonte – Formerly a 2B. Combines a patient approach with excellent speed. Scouts saw power there, but it hasnt shown up yet. Kind of a bad body type, short and squat… but he flies.
I reserve the right to change my opinion here, as always…
by alskor on Dec 13, 2009 11:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
seems reasonably accurate
I suspect that the major publications will have Romine at No. 3 or 4. I don’t think he disappointed with his bat this year other than his continued inability to draw walks. Somewhat more concerning are the defensive questions – but still, I’d refer to the tried-and-true prep draftee POV: how would this guy look if he had gone to college? He would have had a couple of solid years under his belt, perhaps a slightly underwhelming sophomore year but not for lack of talent. His combination of offensive upside, solid performance, and decent athleticism would keep him quite high on draft boards, I think.
by mrkupe on Dec 14, 2009 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure. I don’t think 6th is all that low, though.
I’ve liked Romine in the past. My concern with him now boils down to three things:
1) He looked terrible in Arizona. I don’t want to put too much emphasis on this, because its a SSS, strange conditions and lots of guys are tired. Nonetheless, the reports on Romine were particularly bad.
2) Not that impressive this year with bat or glove. He had an up and down season, started off cold as can be and reports were mixed all year. He did have some nice stretches… But many were looking for a breakout year, and this certainly wasn’t that. The way it ended in Arizona perhaps makes it all look worse.
3) I feel that, in general, we tend to overrate up the middle guys when they project as regulars rather than impact players. Romine doesn’t really have a whole lot of upside… mostly he was hung with the label of “Yankees catcher of the future” b/c Montero is a bad catcher, Romine had the skills to be a good catcher and he had enough promise in his bat to be a pretty good catcher overall IF he was a good defender. At this point I’m not sure he’s all that great a defender and I’m not at all comfortable projecting him as much of a hitter (especially for a so-so defensive catcher).
That sounds pretty harsh… But really, I’ve just downgraded him a tiny bit. Really more a case of other guys passing him than anything. I could easily flip flop him and Banuelos… And I’m really not confident in my De Leon placement – I just cam to the conclusion that of banuelos, de leon and Romine, I’d have to say that de Leon has by a decent margin the best chance of being a better than average player…
by alskor on Dec 14, 2009 2:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're being too harsh on Romine
He hit pretty well in the FSL (a pitcher’s league) in Tampa (a pitcher’s park). Well enough, in fact, to be named FSL player of the year. I know awards mean jack at the minor league level, but I think you are overlooking the fact that he put up very solid numbers in a pitcher’s league at age 20 while catching full-time after Montero’s promotion. The defense needs work, but Romine has the athleticism to improve.
The AFL reports were not great, but considering SSS and the fact that Romine was injured, I’m not too worried about those. I’d rather trust the reports and stats put up over a full season in high-A, where Romine showed that he could have the bat to be an above-average offensive catcher.
http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com
by lemonjello on Dec 14, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You probably have a point about his 09 season
I still just dont see much if any plus in that bat, though.
by alskor on Dec 15, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well, you have a couple of good points
As you probably know, I’ve pegged Romine as a guy of interest for quite some time . . .it wasn’t a breakout year, but it wasn’t a bad year either.
I think you might underestimate his bat. I think the bat has a solid shot to be ML regular-worthy even if he’s not a catcher. He remains very young for his competition and his numbers are pretty solid. Strike zone judgment will obviously be a major factor in his future course of development.
by mrkupe on Dec 14, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very nice list
Slade is a little high, but I like ceiling more it likes.
DeLeon is eally high. Mitchell could be a little lower.
I’ll take HM as meaning a guy to watch more than #11 because I rank him all the way down at 35th. I really like your list.
by sjkqw on Dec 14, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what does everyone think of Neil medchill?
top 10 prospect? top 15?
by matthewmafa on Dec 14, 2009 12:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Bottom Tier System
Alskor’s ranking looks solid, although I too would probably move Romine up two slots ahead of DeLeon. For a team with their financial resources, I’m amazed at the lack of depth. Montero’s probably my favorite minor league AL bat, and I think Vizcaino breaks out in a huge way this year once he hits full season ball. So that’s not a bad 1-2 combo. But the drop off after those two is severe. Deleon’s talent is unquestioned, but he hasn’t played above the GCL and the K rate is alarming. Banuelos and Ramos are solid, but neither project as much more than avg big league regulars.
ProspectTube.com
You Video. You Scout.
by ProspectTube.com on Dec 14, 2009 10:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
errr...Romine, not Ramos
ProspectTube.com
You Video. You Scout.
by ProspectTube.com on Dec 14, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno man
They have one guy who projects to be a very good hitter. and a bunch of guys that might turn out useful (Mcallister etc.) and a bunch of high upside guys that may or may not break out. it’s certainly not the best system around but bottom tier seems to be stretching it.
Results wise, looking at the last 5 yearish or so, they seem to have done a reasonably solid job too, with one guy who’s sort of a star player (Cano ) and a few more guys who were solid regulars (Wang / Hughes / Chamberlain) and a lot of useful reserve / reliever types. again, there are better onces out there. but it’s hard to say that it’s bottom tier
by RollingWave on Dec 14, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
McAllister
I think some of you guys are selling him short. I mean, he clearly will not be a #1, but I think he could be a #3 starter. He had a 2.23 ERA in his 22 AA starts last year with a WHIP around 1.08 I think. I have a season ticket plan at Trenton, and while he was not an overpowering strikeout guy, he did have good command, and pitched in the low 90’s, and rarely struggled at all last year in his first shot at AA.
Oh, and Montero is a BEAST.
by mgugs46 on Dec 14, 2009 10:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
RE: McAllister
He has good command, gets groundballs and knows what he’s doing… but I would not bet on him to continue his success against major league hitters. He’s basically all fastball and change, and the fastball is pretty run of the mill and the change isnt all that consistent. His slider is a big sweeping pitch and he can’t throw it for strikes. That’s the sort of repertoire minor league hitters fall for, but good hitters lay off and then hammer 91mph fastballs.
I guess he could tighten it all up, but I really can’t see better than a #4 starter realistically. To me, he’s just another guy. There are so many pitchers with good results, good command, good pitchability and so-so stuff and without fail the fans of their team think there is something more there… I just don’t see it with McAllister. These kind of prospects are nice to have – you do need them in your system and they are a commodity. They arent after thoughts or throwaway kind of guys. McAllister isnt filler or an organizational player. He’s better than a lot of guys and lots of FOs would like to have him in their system. I just only have so much love for guys with a ceiling of average (or even, arguably, slightly below average).
by alskor on Dec 14, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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