BA STL Top 10
TOP TEN PROSPECTS
1. Shelby Miller, rhp
2. Jaime Garcia, lhp
3. Lance Lynn, rhp
4. Daryl Jones, of
5. David Freese, 3b/1b
6. Eduardo Sanchez, rhp
7. Allen Craig, of/1b/3b
8. Blake Hawksworth, rhp
9. Daniel Descalso, 2b
10. Robert Stock, c
BEST TOOLS
Best Hitter for Average Jon Jay
Best Power Hitter Allen Craig
Best Strike-Zone Discipline Charles Cutler
Fastest Baserunner Adron Chambers
Best Athlete Daryl Jones
Best Fastball Shelby Miller
Best Curveball Jaime Garcia
Best Slider Blake King
Best Changeup P.J. Walters
Best Control P.J. Walters
Best Defensive Catcher Matt Pagnozzi
Best Defensive Infielder Ryan Jackson
Best Infield Arm Tyler Greene
Best Defensive Outfielder Shane Robinson
Best Outfield Arm Jon Edwards
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42 comments
Comments
Stock
Seems very low to me. I like him a lot more as a pitcher, but he hit well in his pro debut and this isn’t a very strong system.
by jar75 on Nov 25, 2009 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well...
He might be a little low, but I don’t see him as clear top 5 guy or anything. I think he is better than Hawksworth and Freese probably too. Somewhere around 6-8 is probably where I’d put him.
by auclairkeithbc on Nov 25, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's reasonable
This system is not very deep, as there isn’t much of a difference between Freese and Stock. I like Craig better than BA does though.
by guru4u on Nov 25, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well i think
the one thing they dont like about craig is a lack of position, because they said its clear his bat is MLB ready
by miraclemets on Nov 25, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can agree with that
As much as the Cards would theoretically want him to play 3B, he is a LF in the end. If Holliday is not resigned, I think he’s their opening day LF.
by guru4u on Nov 27, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
appropriate rank
i think 10 is appropriate. anywhere between 6-10 is fine. he hit well in his debut, but that is rookie ball. i am not going to get too excited about appy league stats, even if he is 19.
by dmb60614 on Nov 25, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shelby Miller...
was my favorite RH HS arm in last years draft. Not a fan of the franchise, but he’s got some sick upside.
Scouting report on Jaime Garcia?
by SenorGato on Nov 25, 2009 2:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
garcia
quick scouting report
lefty
curveball is best pitch
low 90’s fastball
gets plenty of grounders
not a ‘strikeout pitcher’, but has a decent strike out rate
not seen as an ace, but a solid #3 type that is pretty much major league ready
by dmb60614 on Nov 25, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone on this site once said that he saw no difference b/w Shelby Miller and Jacob Turner,
and I’m gonna have to say he’s right.
As matter of fact, I’m going to say that I would rather have Miller over Turner.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Nov 25, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stop
Kissing Cardinals fan ass Frederick. Its unbecoming of a gentleman as yourself.
Though I still do think that Turner has a bit more of a chance to reach his ceiling, because Turner controlled his fastball a little better when he was in High School. But for the most part they seem to be pretty close in terms of talent and upside. Both still have inconsistent breaking pitches, and undeveloped off speed offerings. Which is about the same scouting report you will always read when talking about a pitcher drafted out of high school less than a year ago, not named Rick Porcello.
by CoolCat23 on Nov 25, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like....
Millers’ curveball and mechanics more than Turner.
He’s got a very Jarrod Parker type easy arm action.
by SenorGato on Nov 27, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it worked wonders for Jarrod Parker.
by PissedMick on Nov 27, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you're saying. It looks more fluent than Parker's too.
Brett Anderson is the Truth. Brett Anderson is divine presence. Brett Anderson is eternal life. Brett Anderson is within you. Brett Anderson is here. Brett Anderson is Now.
by Frederick0220 on Nov 27, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Affeldt
being used as an adjective now…
He was an MVP candidate, after all.
by FastBennyF on Nov 27, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the word he was looking for was...
fluid.
"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree
by JT12340 on Nov 29, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
with the graduation of Rasmus and the trades of Wallace & Todd
are the Cards close to having the weakest system in the minors?
by PrincetonCubs on Nov 26, 2009 12:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
No
The Cardinals system is probably in the bottom third of the league but it’s not close to being the weakest. The Cardinals still have a good amount of depth. The Cardinals didn’t even trade away that much talent. Brett Wallace and Chris Perez were the big losses. Clayton Mortensen and Jess Todd were seriously overrated and Shane Peterson was like our 20th best prospect last winter.
The Tigers system is much worse than the Cardinals. Also the Cubs system is worse. Those are just two off the top of my head.
by UncleBuck44 on Nov 26, 2009 1:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tigers?
Turner, Crosby, Sizemore, Strieby, Oliver, Satterwhite…you sure?
Same for the Cubs, lots of talent there. Castro, both Jacksons, Cashner, Lee, Carpenter, Vitters.
I’m not sure I should really get excited about anything in this system outside of Miller.
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
by hero66 on Nov 26, 2009 1:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tigers System
Obviously fans are gonna come out of the woodwork and disagree when their team is mentioned as the worst. No one likes it but one team has the take the title. And this is just my opinion, so take it easy. I’m a nobody.
Jacob Turner hasn’t done anything except get drafted in the 1st round. He’s no better than Shelby Miller. Once one of them does something in the minors then tell me. However, I do like the potential that is there with both. They each only help their farm system’s strengths right now.
Why would Casey Crosby be a better prospect than Jaime Garcia right this second? Both had TJ surgery, both recovered nicely. One pitcher is doing well at AAA and the other is doing well at Low A. Give me the one at AAA. Garcia’s numbers at Low A weren’t much worse than Crosby’s. Crosby was a little more dominant at the same level but will it continue? No reason for Crosby to be rated higher when he’s 3 levels lower. To be fair, both would get a B so it’s really a tie in the grand scheme of things.
Eduardo Sanchez is a much better relief prospect than Cody Satterwhite. I’m more excited about Sanchez than I was about Chris Perez.
Scott Sizemore has had one above average season for a college 2nd baseman. He has solid tools but so does Daryl Jones. Time will tell for both. That’s the best either side can say for both.
I’m not sure what Andrew Oliver has done besides not much in his junior year at Oklahoma State. I’m still excited that the Cardinals didn’t draft Oliver. Lance Lynn is much better at this point. Oliver can only hope to be where Lynn is a year from now. I’ll add that Lynn isn’t the next Clemens. He’s maybe a 3-4 starter. We’re hoping for a Jeff Suppan when he was a Cardinal(13-15 wins, 4.00 ERA, etc.)
Alex Avila and David Freese could be solid hitters at their positions and Ryan Strieby and Allen Craig have hit the ball well in the minors. I couldn’t call one a better prospect than the other.
I don’t see why Detroit has a better system.
by UncleBuck44 on Nov 27, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not at all a tigers fan.
their system is just way better than the STL. deal with it
by daveh33 on Nov 27, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not objective whatsoever.
I’m a Cardinals fan and avid follower of their farm system, but I have to agree with nearly everyone elses’ opinion that the Cardinals are in the bottom third when it comes to farm system rankings.
Crosby is a power pitcher and Jaime is a worm grinder, Andy Oliver had a great debut, and Lance Lynn has been good, but not great. And David Freese appears to be a very good glove man at third, but lack of plate discipline from a 27 year old doesn’t bode well for his future.
I will agree though that at this point Eduardo Sanchez is a better relief prospect than the maddenly inconsistent Cody Satterwhite. I remember watching that kid at Ole Miss and seeing Roy Halladay, and then seeing Larry Loobers in the same inning.
by CoolCat23 on Nov 27, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Yep Cardinals are in the bottom third, no doubt about it. So are the Tigers and their system is probably worse.
Andy Oliver had a nice debut as a reliever. He also continued to struggle throwing strikes with 9 BBs in 16 innings. Let’s see what he does as a starter. Adam Ottavino could be a very good reliever too. Give me Lance Lynn over Andy Oliver everyday of the week. Lynn won’t be an all star every year but a solid back end starter is worth 6-7 million nowadays.
And I don’t know if you meant it this way but just because Garcia is a groundball pitcher doesn’t mean he isn’t as good as Crosby. I don’t know why anyone would say Crosby is better than Garcia or Garcia is better than Crosby at this point. Both are B grades. Many forget how good Garcia is. In St. Louis in 2008 he was 85-88 because it turned out his elbow was falling apart. Most reports now say he’s back up to 88-91 with nasty sink and 3 major league average to above average offspeed pitches. I want to see where Crosby is at after another year. Like I said, Garcia was pretty darn good in the Midwest League as well. But if there is one thing I’ve learned over the years, you can’t go overboard with excitement for a Low A pitcher. They’ve all got a long way to go. But I certainly see the potential that is there with Crosby.
Who knows what will happen with David Freese. He is 26 but he hasn’t been a pro player for as long as most 26 year olds. The kid made the jump from High A to AAA last year with ease and he kept hitting the ball well at AAA this year. He also had some success in St. Louis to end the year which could be a nice confidence boost. He’ll probably get his shot in 2010. Like you mentioned, he does have a good glove.
Agree about Satterwhite. He is another guy that I was excited to see the Cardinals pass on in the draft. I never saw him have a good game at Ole Miss. A wild reliever is the Tigers #7 prospect according to the Hardball Times? Adam Ottavino could be that and he’s not in the Cards top 10. I don’t understand how a system that has Oliver and Satterwhite as their #6 and #7 prospects(according to the Hardball Times) is better than the Cardinals. A couple of wild relievers isn’t a good thing to have in your top 10. The Cardinals have two relievers in their top 10. One had great success in the majors last year and the other throws gas and strikes.
by UncleBuck44 on Nov 28, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a Tigers fan
Far from it after 2006.
Those prospects you mentioned over the Cardinals guys every day and twice on Sunday.
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
by hero66 on Nov 27, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take them over the Cardinals guys...
How did I do that?
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
by hero66 on Nov 27, 2009 11:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tigers and Cu
bs are way better than this.
I think only Toronto is worse
by daveh33 on Nov 26, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have the Yanks and the Jays behind this system
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
by hero66 on Nov 26, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yankees?
The Yanks have a noticeably superior system right now in my opinion. Montero alone gives the Yanks a big head start over the Cards, and I don’t see anything in the STL top 15 or so prospects to bridge that gap.
by jibs on Nov 26, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What do the Yanks really have behind him, though?
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
by hero66 on Nov 27, 2009 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take the Yankees system over them
I like McAllister better than Jamie Garcia. I think you could slot Austin Jackson ahead of Jamie Garcia as well. I mean, I don’t think the Yankees system is that much better, but I’d give them a slight edge.
by toonsterwu on Nov 27, 2009 6:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
um, what?
the Cubs system is worse? Callis mentioned the other day that the Cubs system was the best in the NL Central with good depth and a good crop of high ceiling talent, and JJ Cooper and Ben Badler reiterated that sentiment in their podcast the other day. Sure, it’s BA, but it’s three different voices. In their podcast, Cooper/Badler noted that a lot of Cubs prospects would be ahead of Jamie Garcia, and Badler made the argument that you could put Jay Jackson ahead of Shelby Miller.
This doesn’t mean that the Cubs players will end up succeeding – but in terms of value, I’ve got a tough time seeing the Cubs behind the Cardinals right now. In the podcast, they loosely suggest that the Cardinals are at the rear of the NL Central systems, with the Astros.
by toonsterwu on Nov 27, 2009 6:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I'd have to agree
admittedly not objective, but I have to think the Cubs system is safely ahead of the Cardinals in most folks’ rankings. Another BA guy, John Manuel, put the Pirates and the Brewers ahead of the Cubs in the middle of the pack, with the Cards/Astros sharing the league basement.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/01/farm.systems/index.html
Seems like the top 3 in the nl central are pretty interchangeable to me, when you get down to it, but ymmv
by PrincetonCubs on Dec 3, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Astros say hi.
But that’s pretty much it, IMO.
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by Blicks on Nov 27, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Latin America
Is it just me, or does anyone else get the feeling that the Wagner Mateo episode probably set the Cardinals back in Latin America for the next five years or even longer?
by CoolCat23 on Nov 27, 2009 3:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Does it Matter, Though?
Why not just give the 3 million you’re willing to give Wagner Mateo to 3 high school kids asking for 1 million in the draft that fall outside the top 3 rounds
I’d rather have Colton Cain, Brody Colvin, and Jeff Malm than Wagner Mateo.
by UncleBuck44 on Nov 28, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus
You have imbibed every bit of the organizational kool-aid haven’t you?
If you can find three high upside first round high school talents that will sign for a total of 3 million dollars you come see me.
Personally, I think its a fools game to throw your chips all in, in the Latin American market. Building through the draft makes me much more comfortable than spending three or four million dollars per year on 16 year olds(?) from the Dominican Republic or Venezuela.
Of course the Cardinals are going to actually have to take more risks in the draft if they ever want to have a top five farm system. And by that I mean take more than one or two high school players with your first ten picks. This season I saw them change a long held philosophy by taking Shelby Miller in the first round, and then I saw them revert back immediately and take one high floor/ low ceiling college player after another. It kind of took the luster off of that first round pick for me.
Robert Stock was a risk I will admit, but not a very smart one if you ask me, and indulging is desire to hit isn’t doing him any favors. He’s a pitcher, and they should be moving on in that direction. But now we have to watch him struggle for a season at Quad Cities with the bat, and see him finally reverted to pitching, and most likely getting a reliever for our troubles. Which we already have plenty of.
by CoolCat23 on Nov 28, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
????
How have I imbibed every bit of the organizational kool-aid if I don’t like what they are doing? Are you sure you read my post?
And where did I say I would sign 3 1st round high school talents? Give me 3 of the highest rated high schoolers that are willing to sign for a million bucks. See the three I listed. Cain and Colvin are a pair of big pitchers that hit mid 90s. Malm is a power hitting 1st baseman. Not something the Cardinals need but a trade chip in the future, no doubt. All three didn’t get 3 million combined.
You do realize you agreed with me when you said you don’t like throwing your chips all in, in the Latin American market? Yeah you can find Pedro’s and Papi’s in Latin America but you will find much more Ghoelys Franco’s(made-up name although I bet the Phillies or Padres or Yankees or some team signed someone by that name from the DR at one point in time.)
It’s not terribly different from the draft except that the #10 prospect in the Latin American market doesn’t sign for more than the #5 prospect unlike in the draft because they are going to college if they don’t get what they want. I’d be fine going after the 10th best prospect instead of the #2 prospect(Mateo) and taking the savings and putting it towards Cain and Colvin.
As for the Cardinals draft philosphy, it’s not bad. They get their high schoolers and college guys. They get their safe college guys(Todd, Wallace), they also get their high risk, high reward college guys(Greene, Ottavino).
by UncleBuck44 on Nov 28, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eduardo Sanchez
What’s his deal? How good is his stuff? Is he a potential closer? Any chance he gets moved to the rotation?
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by OldProspects on Nov 27, 2009 12:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez
The gun in Springfield had him consistently in the 95-97 range, with the occasional 99 mph reading. Good high eighties slider and a curveball that should be serviceable in the majors.
Could be a closer, but with like all relief prospects, most likely a set up man.
by CoolCat23 on Nov 27, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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