Dustin Ackley to 2nd base
by cowboy4eva on Nov 21, 2009 7:58 PM EST
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Didn't see a thread on this, new news right? Interesting strategy here, understandable with Franklin-G already manning the CF position and Ackley's experience at 2nd. Little to no harm done by simply starting him there...
Mariners first-round draft pick Dustin Ackley will begin working out at second base in a move that could become permanent if all goes well.
The decision was announced Friday by Mariners general manager Jack Zduriencik in a conference call with writers who cover the team. Zduriencik termed the move "an experiment" for now and says it's always been his philosophy to work minor-leaguers out at multiple positions to give the club flexibility going forward.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2010320833_mari21.html
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This was posted yesterday on lookout landing
As well as the seattle mariners homepage
It's almost like some people
don’t read those two sites daily.
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by OldProspects on Nov 21, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Arm strength
I wonder if they are making this decision due to his TJ surgery recovery not going well.
interesting
I just got on twitter.Follow me at http://twitter.com/JDSussman
I'll be trying to post lines and analysis as much as possible.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
He has more upside than Biggio...
I know Biggio is a good player and has 300 hits, but he was never really a star player like Ackley has the chance to be.
3000* hits
In Biggio’s prime he had a 400 wOBA.
I don’t think one’s upside can be higher than that, IMO. The man is a likely hall of famer.
I just got on twitter.Follow me at http://twitter.com/JDSussman
I'll be trying to post lines and analysis as much as possible.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
Biggio also had seasons of 30+ SBs, one year of 50.
by byronlhsdrmr on Nov 22, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
SBs...
are included in wOBA, as are CS’s.
Absurdity.
Craig Biggio wasn’t a classic power and patience slugger, but saying he wasn’t a star is ridiculous. Advanced fielding metrics weren’t around during Biggio’s prime, but he was by all accounts an excellent fielder at 2B (who was miscast as a CF late in his career). In Biggio’s ages 25-35 seasons, his wOBA’s were, respectively, .336, .347, .366, .408, .399, .364, .410, .406, .368, .357, and .364. That’s a string of 10 years where Biggio never dipped below league average and was as many as 40 runs above average with the bat. I’d love to think Ackley has higher upside than a guy who wOBA’d around .400 4 times in his career while playing premium defense at an up-the-middle position, but that’s stretching it a bit.
Biggio played 18 seasons in the majors. 4 of those seasons, he was a superstar – ~6.5-8.5 WAR depending on how you think his defense would have played out. 5 more, he was a bona fide star – like 4-6 WAR, for 4 seasons, he was solidly above average (2.5-3.5 WAR). Out of the other 5, he was right around average for 4 of them before finally succumbing to old age when he was 41.
Biggio was awesome. If Ackley can be even 80% of what Biggio was at his peak, I’ll be totally floored (I’m an Ms fan).
by slamcactus on Nov 21, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
LOL
Yes, Dustin Ackley is so good that he has more upside than a potential Hall of Famer.
More upside than a Hall of Famer?
Ackley for God?
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 22, 2009 3:32 AM EST up reply actions
POTENTIAL hall of famer?
Biggio deserved to be a hall of famer long before he held on for the benchmark stats to guarantee it. More upside than Biggio is one of the dumber statements I’ve seen on this site.
Everyone here...
is severely overrating Biggio. He had a few seasons with good stats. The reasons his career stats are good is because he played for so long. He has a career .796 OPS which doesn’t seem like a hall of famer to me. He was a hard worker and played the game right, he will also likely make the hall of fame, but if Ackley reaches his potential, I would rather have him in his prime than Biggio. A 320- 25- 20 line with above average defense for multiple years is what I think his potential is. That also doesn’t mean he will reach it, but it is what he POTENTIALLY is. That wouldn’t make him a hall of famer either. The ONLY reason Biggio deserves to be in the hall of fame is because the played he played the game so hard and for so long. His stats are not better than some players who are currently not in the hall.
I'm pretty sure
He also had some of the best statistical seasons of any second baseman since Joe Morgan.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 22, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Not overrating Biggio
You’re missing the point as to why he was great. Don’t look at his career numbers. He held on too long to get 3000 hits and it dragged down his averages terribly. Look at his peak. He was one of the small handful of greates second basemen ever. The man had five seasons with OPS+ over 130. He was a second baseman who topped a 370 OBP for TEN straight years, while also hitting for power, playing good defense, and stealing lots of bases at a high success rate. He earned a spot in the hall of fame five years before he retired and got three thousand hits. Don’t judge him by his watered down career lines.
You're
seriously underrating the value of premium offensive performance at an up-the-middle position. In ’94, ’95, ’97, and ’98, Biggio was one of the 5-6 best position players in baseball. He and Roberto Alomar were the best 2Bs of their generation, and he absolutely deserves to be in the hall of fame.
I think this deserves the ultimate facepalm image.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 23, 2009 5:10 AM EST up reply actions
Rec'd
That made me ROFL.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Nov 24, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
RE: Everyone here is severely overrating Biggio.
No we’re really not. He was pretty damned good.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 23, 2009 5:06 AM EST up reply actions
I presume that wasn't meant for me.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 23, 2009 5:05 AM EST up reply actions
biggio
wow. talk about underrating the guy prettty seriously here lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 22, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Some folks threw around Chase Utley's name as a comp too easily.
I don’t think Ackley has nearly the power potential as Utley. I figure Ackley will hit for average, get on base at a good clip, have good speed, and hit for enough power. But I don’t expect a home run threat second baseman.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 21, 2009 8:59 PM EST reply actions
+1
I’ve heard Utley comparisons for Ian Stewart, Gordan Beckham, and Adrian Cardenes (WTF?!?!?) in the last year. I think people seriously underestimate just how good Utley is when they make that comp. He’s 2nd in WAR to Pujols in the last 5 years. People don’t throw Pujols comps around lightly, and Utley comps should be similarly reserved. He’s a prototype you don’t see come along…pretty much ever.
Those guys are sort of vaguely comparable to Utley in some ways with the bat
Well, not Cardenas. I don’t get that one at all; he’s much more in the Brian Roberts mold. But the other two, OK.
What puts Utley on a whole different plane of awesome is the combination of his bat with fielding skill that’s in the top 5 for the league.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Stewart and Beckham...
are comparable in that they’re white second basemen over 6 feet tall who have some power. I just see it as a lazy comparison, and one that underrates just what it means to call someone a Chase Utley-type player.
Ackley at 2B..
would give a big boost to his value if he can stick there. He’d kinda be like a less powerful but faster Todd Frazier (if Toddy boy does indeed stick there too).
I don't think he's more valuable as a second baseman.
Over a center fielder.
However, if he’s versatile enough to play both positions, and play them well, that could make him valuable.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 22, 2009 3:34 AM EST up reply actions
Not really.
I know what you mean, but if he’s a good enough hitter, they won’t actually move him between the two. People still act like Chone Figgins has extra value because of his versatility, but he doesn’t actually move around anymore, because they’ve committed a spot to him. Ackley will be plugged in and left alone if he develops half as well as they hope.
Damn Zdurienick
Always being smart! Gutierrez is a franchise cornerstone if he can replicate the season he had last year. Keeping him in center is more than worthwhile, even if it means moving his top prospect to a new position.
I miss Bill Bavasi.
Ya smart...
Continuing the yoyoing of Brandon Marrow from starting to relieving to starting again (thankfully), trading Jeff Clement then having Jojima walk, and moving Philip Aumont (their top pitching prospect) to relief when they have Josh Fields were all genius moves.
You, on the other hand...
Brandon Morrow’s situation was not Zduriencik’s fault.
Jeff Clement was not going to stick at catcher.
Kenji Johjima walking was not known at the time of trading Jeff Clement.
Phillipe Aumont becoming a reliever has more to do with Aumont then Zduriencik just making silly decisions.
And Josh Fields has nothing to do with any of this.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 22, 2009 3:37 AM EST up reply actions
and another thing...
Havok is one of the lamest X-men of all times!
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
Hmmm, time for you to learn something
Morrow had as much to do with flip-flopping as anyone else, in fact he pushed to go back to relieving last spring training because he thought he wanted to close, but he wasn’t as much of a lock down reliever so the M’s made him go back to starting. Once Jeff Clement showed he couldn’t handle being a catcher, which was pretty obvious to everyone, his value bottomed out as an old first base prospect who has never hit at the major league level or played much first base. Johjima leaving was a godsend to the M’s due to his whale of a contract which the M’s didn’t have to pay, and now can use that money for a more productive player. Phillippe Aumont was forced into relieving because he has a degenerative hip condition that won’t allow him to start. Oh and Josh Fields has been struggling so why would you think he was the only reliever the M’s would need?
small question
wasnt health part of the reason that morrow went back and forth (doesnt he have some kind of condition that was effecting him? or did i imagine that?)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 22, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Diabetes? Oh did you mean...
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 23, 2009 5:15 AM EST up reply actions
All but the Aumont thing.
Though Jason A Churchill reported the degenerative hip condition, Aumont and the team publicly denied it. Jack Zduriencik also declared off the record that he retains “the right to change his mind” on Aumont being a reliever only.
So… yeah. I don’t know what to believe anymore.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 23, 2009 5:14 AM EST up reply actions
Either way
There were plenty of concerns with Aumont that justify the move. I dont really care one way or the other, but the strong implication in the comments at the time was they were concerned about his durability as a starter. I would have no problem either way they decided (starter or reliever), but do feel the odds were he ended up in the pen anyway. Its not a “coup” or “brilliant move” to switch him peremptorily, but I certainly wouldnt list it among his faults or mistakes…
I can't figure out if you're being sarcastic or not.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 22, 2009 3:34 AM EST up reply actions
Gotcha.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 23, 2009 5:15 AM EST up reply actions
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