Mock MLB offseason: Should A's trade for Reid Brignac?
by nobodyinparticular on Nov 20, 2009 5:44 PM EST
Email
Print
Basic premise of this exercise is that you are the GM of the Oakland A's. You are trying to build a successful 2010 club while keeping a bright future in Oakland (or wherever the A's may end up). Obviously there are holes in the Oakland lineup that could be filled for 2010. Not among the least of these is SS (although some like Cliff Pennington there).
If you had a trade offer on the table to receive Reid Brignac while sending Sean Doolittle and Josh Donaldson, would you do the trade?
Let's look at the pieces:
Reid Brignac: He has the ability to fill in at both SS and 3B--two positions that will likely need to be filled at least to start the season. If Pennington continues to produce at SS, he can play at 3B until Brett Wallace is ready. If Brignac performs well in addition to both Wallace and Pennington--well then you have some trade chips. If one of these fails, you end up having insurance
Sean Doolittle: Doolittle came out hitting like gangbusters in the 2008 season--jumping onto the prospect radar as quickly as the ball was jumping off of his bat in Stockton. However, this was Stockton--in the California League--that of the small parks and large HR numbers. As he was promoted to Midland, his numbers dipped and he slumped. In Sacramento in 2009, he started off fairly well for his small amount of pro experience, but his season ended only a month later with a torn patelar ligament. Moving forward, with a quick rebound, he could find himself with a spot in the Oakland lineup in RF or 1B by May or June. However, with Carter an option at 1B and COF as well as Desme, Cunningham and Brown ready anywhere from the start of 2009 to July 2010. Combined with Barton and Wallace as options at 1B, Doolittle could be seen as superfluous.
Josh Donaldson: What can't he do? He has played 3B, C and 1B in the minors so far and there is talk of moving him to 2B. In the Texas League as a 23-year old, Donaldson smacked 37 doubles, just 4 behind uber-prospect Chris Carter's league leading 41. He also posted a season OBP of .379, good for 8th in the league. Although he may not hit a boatload of HRs (only 9 in 455 ABs), he certainly isn't lost at the plate. Scouting reports also say that he has the tools to remain an ump cuddle buddy , the only question is whether or not there is a place for him in Oakland with Kurt Suzuki cheap and performing well there now. With so many 1B prospects (as already established), Wallace in front of him at 3B and Weeks/Cardenas at 2B, there may not be a place for Donaldson in Oakland either.
So the question: Would it be wise to give up 2 fairly solid prospects (in their own rights) who are superfluous, in order to grab an MLB-ready SS who may or may not be needed right now or in the future?
Would you make a counter-offer? (keep in mind the A's and Rays both have pitching depth in the minors so starting pitching likely wouldn't be valuable in a trade to the Rays) Would you rather try to get Brandon Wood from the Angels (who is out of option years with LAA likely to re-sign Figgins)? Or would you not make the deal at all?
(this is intended to create discussion so please leave thoughtful comments)
46 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
It takes two to tango
I can’t see Tampa offering that.
You seem to be essentially forgetting about Oakland's 1st round pick this year
Grant Green is going to fit somewhere on the left side of the infield. I mean, is it a plausible trade, sure, but I don’t think it really helps either team.
You’re name has 2k9 in it — what are you some 8 year-old who makes Pillsbury Doughboy cookies and jerks off to that bullshit video game with Tim Lincecum on the cover--
Frederick0220
Green is not forgotten
No one really knows just how long Green will take to reach the majors. It may be by June of 2012 (hypothetically) or it could be 2013. If it’s 2013, well Brignac gets 3 full seasons to really show his worth as a starting SS, and if he performs well, he will be a very valuable trade chip as a 27-year old for the A’s to bring in more prospects. The problem is that the A’s should be contending in the AL West by 2011 if not this season (although as an A’s fan I will still agree that 2010 is highly unlikely) and they can’t afford to have just Pennington at SS for those years.
Again, if nothing else, the A’s could be trading spare parts for a player who projects to be a bit of an upgrade over what they have right now at SS. If he rediscovers the bat that was so successful in 2006 as a 20-year old then he would be a stellar piece of a hopefully contending team with (again hopefully) emerging bats and pitchers such as Anderson, Outman, Carter and Wallace.
Visit my sports blog: Triple Slash Sports
by nobodyinparticular on Nov 20, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Their Man In Havana
Hey, if Oakland doesn’t need him, I’m sure I could think of a team that’s had an all-around weak spot in SS since, uh, 2004, two championships notwithstanding…
"That is like saying my ‘upside’ is Brad Pitts face, with Einstein’s brain, and Ron Jeremy’s unit. It is nice to dream, but that ceiling isn’t going to happen." (King Billy Royal)
Yeah I don't think this is a great deal for either side
Oakland has a lot of $ invested in Green and the Rays don’t have a clear cut future SS with Beckham having to move. Plus the A’s prospects are decent but not great, I think the A’s would have to throw another prospect in to get the deal done.
Generic Signature
Reid Brignac can't hit
I’m not a big Donaldson fan and Doolittle just had knee surgery that might make him miss part of ST. The A’s don;t need Brignac and I can’t see Tampa lusting for the A’s prospects.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I will not argue with you about the glove
But I’m not seeing “plenty” coming from his bat, even by the standards expected of a SS. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. But I believe in my assessment enough that I wouldn’t advocate a trade to Oakland just so he could have a chance to prove me wrong.
The monster at the end of this blog.
More detail
The great Paul Thomas addressed the A’s possible trades for Brignac (and SRod/others) at A’s Nation in more detail (if you visit the link, you’ll know what I mean).
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2009/11/9/1124121/comparative-advantage-a#storyjump
The cliff notes of that incredibly long post, which also included a discussion (some might say a digression) of Sean Rodriguez,
is that I eventually ended up suggesting a trade of Donaldson, Brad Ziegler and Henry Rodriguez for Brignac and Jake McGee. I think the two teams match up very well in terms of their strengths and weaknesses (the Rays have SP and infielders while the A’s have RP and catchers). It’s just a matter of putting the pieces together in some non-contentious fashion. It would be a shame if the Rays ended up having to convert surplus starter prospects to relievers just to patch their bullpen together. Doing that is, as I said elsewhere yesterday, like burning money to heat your house.
I would not do the suggested trade above, but I’m well known to be higher on Sean Doolittle than most (even most A’s fans). Trying to get Wood is hopeless, so I voted for “make a counteroffer” (namely, the one I just stated).
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Elaborating on the Rays side
Various reasons why I think the Rays wouldn’t offer this:
*They probably have Brignac penciled in as their starting SS in 2011 or possibly earlier. Bartlett is starting to get expensive and may be ripe for a trade or a non-tender.
*The idea to trade from middle infield depth for a catcher upgrade is sound. However, if the core of the proposal is Brignac for Donaldson, that seems like a non-starter. Brignac might be a plus defender, he’s definitely an SS and he’s closer to the majors. The note about Donaldson suggests we should be impressed by his versatility, but that to me suggests a guy who hasn’t definitively proven he can stick at catcher. Paul’s excellent post acknowledges those questions about defense are still there. Catcher is obviously the position with the most attrition and if Donaldson isn’t a catcher in the end, what is he?
*The fact that it’s a 2 for 1 is a pretty clear acknowledgment of the fact that Brignac is a more valued prospect than Donaldson. In a lot of ways, how you feel about this trade depends on your evaluation of Doolittle. My first reaction was that he’s really just a guy, and at OF/1B, he needs to mash and the only time he has was in the Cal League. And now he looks at least somewhat injury prone. Paul’s feeling is he’s better than that, and I respect that. But it’s not a need for the Rays and it’s not the type of prospect profile that would put this offer over the top.
*Now that I’ve read Paul’s long post, I’m inclined to think that SRod is a better trade candidate since he doesn’t offer the same premium defense as Brignac. I’m still not convinced that Donaldson would be enough for SRod straight up, but it seems more plausible.
this is well thought-out
but the Rays need a starting catcher now. not a project in Donaldson. and I think they like SRod more than that
Indeed
I’m not a big Donaldson fan, and Luke Bailey is their catcher of the future. If they deal for a catcher it will be someone who can immediately step in and perform.
You're calling a player who has yet to play a professional game the "catcher of the future?"
No offense, but that’s Candide-level optimism. There’s probably a 75% chance that he never reaches the majors in any capacity.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
He was regarded as the best catcher in the entire draft class, and 18th overall prior to TJ surgery. I would bet on his future before I bet on Josh Donaldson’s.
Who's Plan B should Bailey fail?
I’m not going to get into a Donaldson vs. Bailey fight, I just know that Tampa’s 2010 Catching situation is unsettled and it is more than possible that Bailey never makes it. So who is Plan B for the Rays, ‘cause I don’t see them keeping Navarro beyond this coming season.
The monster at the end of this blog.
He certainly could
Hell, it may even be likely that he does fail. I don’t think Donaldson’s odds are better and if they do acquire someone I expect it to be someone who can replace Navarro right now.
So you can't name Plan B
And for the record, Donaldson has stayed healthy and will be playing in AAA next season while Bailey is coming off TJ surgery and has never faced pro pitching. Saying Donaldson has no better odds of making it than Bailey is completely wrong.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Per BA's Texas League Chat:
Mike (Midland, TX): I had the opportunity to see Josh Donaldson play the entire year for the RockHounds. I do not understand how this guy doesn’t get more hype? Including the playoffs he had 50plus extra base hits, nearly 100 rbis, while also walking over 80 times. He looks to be a well above average athlete for the catching position. It seems to me his tools say he has a chance to be a frontline catcher at the MLB level?! What are your thoughts?
Will Lingo: That’s probably overselling Donaldson, but he is an interesting guy and one who just missed the top 20. As with Trumbo, power is definitely the most intriguing part of Donaldson’s game as well. He produced a lot more doubles than home runs this season, though, and at least one manager summed up his reaction to Donaldson simply with, “I’m not a fan,” which is the ultimate quick dismissal from a scout or manager. Not usually a follow-up to that. And I think the consensus on Donaldson as a receiver is that he’s just OK. If he continues to hit he could end up in the big leagues.
That isn’t exactly a strong endorsement. I don’t like him as a prospect and I wouldn’t consider him a strong plan A or B.
yeah, the Rays don't need any "could end up in the big leagues" players
unless he is a stud defensive catcher that is AAA-tested.
Brignac is a stud defensive SS and no doubt an MLB player
+1
I should have added that – if the Rays are going to trade Brignac for a C, they better get one who starts there for them in 2010 (at least at some point in the season)
Donaldson played in AA (and did well there) in 2009
Exactly how much time are you expecting him to spend in AAA? Most prospects don’t even spend full seasons there anymore.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
And I'm fine with you not liking Donaldson as a prospect
Hell, I’m not thrilled with him as a prospect.
However, at this point in time you have to admit the odds are better for him to make the Show than they are for Bailey.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I'll ammend my statement
I think Luke Bailey has a better chance of being an every day catcher than Josh Donaldson does.
I'd sure like to see a link to this claim
because Max Stassi (who I am also not particularly high on, BTW, so don’t accuse me of A’s-related hypocrisy) got twice his signing bonus. And everything I read said Stassi was the best HS catcher in this class.
As for the propriety of betting on his future versus Donaldson… um, you wouldn’t happen to know any escrow agencies, perchance? Because that’s a bet I’d take every day of the week.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Umm...
Bailey entered the season at the front of the national group of high school catchers, one of the strongest positions in the draft. He had shown a rare combination of hitting ability, raw power and arm strength, all of which graded above-average, as well as solid athleticism and surprising speed.
BA’s Draft Database… members only.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Doesn't really square with MLB.com's report at all
Given that, I’ll defer to their respective market prices…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
... not seeing the point here
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Isn't injury history a proper thing to take into account when evaluating a player's future value?
And especially his likelihood of making it to the major leagues?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/draft/early-draft-preview/2009/267547.html
Rankings from February (it’s subscription only), Stassi is ranked 31st for what it’s worth.
Donaldson is a "project"?
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
Interesting value disconnect here on Brignac and Rodriguez
I think Rodriguez is better than Brignac by a significant margin, but your post implies you feel the reverse.
Rodriguez reminds me a lot of Jed Lowrie; Brignac has a little too much Brent Lillibridge in him for me to feel real comfortable about him.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
He's probably better defensively than Lillibridge.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 21, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Brignac v. SRod
I guess I give Brignac a slight edge since I’m more sure he’s a shortstop. But I wouldn’t argue it too strenuously. On the other hand, I’d want more than Donaldson for either.
Well, my suggested trade for Sean Rodriguez was something like Donaldson/Devine/Gray
One could also substitute Henry Rodriguez or Demel for Gray if the Rays prefer upside rather than certainty for the second relief arm.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
After trying to rehab the knee and getting platelet therapy, Doolittle has now had
surgery which may or may not delay his arrival to ST.
I’d do it if I were the A’s because I really want to see a plus defender at SS next to Wallace with a groundballing and lefty-heavy staff. I also don’t think much of Donaldson, and, while I like Doolittle, I think he’s expendable.
I don’t see the Rays having any interest in this deal, though, because they probably want someone better than Donaldson as a starting catcher, and Doolittle hardly fills a hole for them. Also, as stated above, they might want Brignac as their starting SS at some point.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
Doolittle might be expendable, but he's certainly not worth much right now either
The monster at the end of this blog.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
