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Future for Chris Davis

I was excited to draft Chris Davis for my fantasy team last season, and like any owner was very disappointed in his performance before being demoted.

However, I just computed his line on being returned.  I don't often do this, so I have to admit that I may have miscalculated... but here it is since his return to Arlington on August 25:

133 AB, 41 H, 17 R, 26 RBI, 7 BB, 36 K, 6 HR, 5 2B, 1 3B, .308 AVG, .496 SLG.

 

If he had slugged .496 all season as a 23 year-old, I'd be thrilled.  Given that there seems to be a new wave of sluggers that fan more often than used to be acceptable (Dunn, Reynolds, etc.), what should we make of this?

Is Chris Davis going to be successful in the long run?

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Short answer: Probably not

As long as his plate discipline and pitch recognition remain where they are, pitchers will exploit those weaknesses. After coming back from the Minors, Davis’s approach became more careful; he began concentrating on straight contact as opposed to uppercutting it as he did during the first half. This resulted in a lessened HR rate. Davis was possibly my favorite Ranger going into last year, but I’m not sure if he can be an above-average hitting first baseman (850 OPS or more).

I like steak.

by Conjunction on Oct 8, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions  

It would be silly to count out Chris Davis...

if only for the reason that his power is an 80 on the scouting scale, and his package of skills is already good enough for a major league job. Is his problem that his pitch recognition is terrible, or is it his approach? Both are things that can be improved, but it’s a lot more likely a player will improve his approach than his pitch recognition, IMO.

If he doesn’t develop (and I’m looking for development pretty much solely in K/BB) Davis isn’t going to be an above-average first baseman, and may struggle to hold down a job. With a player of his skill set though, a little development will go a long way.

by PissedMick on Oct 8, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions  

I also find it encouraging that he appears to be trying to alter his approach.

That’s a good sign, and a lot of players with Davis’ success can’t get over themselves enough to change.

by PissedMick on Oct 8, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

is he out? no

but would i consider him a bounceback candidate? probably not…

his batting average and therefore all other percentage statistics rose when he came back, but he still was walking at a putrid rate….the thing that makes 200K’s from dunn or reynolds passable is that they also walk nearly 100 times per year…even using that small sample size as a basis, davis only walks 40ish times per year…not even half of the other guys with the same strikeout rate….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 8, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions  

reynolds doesnt walk close to 100 times per year

by mjr20 on Oct 8, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

true

but davis’s walk rate would still only be about half of reynolds’

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 9, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Successful?

Broad term. The guy can hit in the majors, but will never hit for a high AVG – again, this was a minor league illusion created by some lucky AVGs – and exacerbated by a red hot MLB debut. He does have massive power… so if .250-.260 w/ a .330-.340 OBP and 25-30 HRs is “success” to you, than sure. It would be “success” to me, but I never had high expectations for Davis. That’s a pretty valuable player. He should never have been considered a top prospect, though, as I was quite vocal about that at the time. I think the most likely outcome is he’s the good Mike Jacobs. I believe Paul Thomas threw out that comp – so credit to him. There is, of course, still some time for him to make adjustments… but, IMHO, his approach is pretty badly flawed (not so bad he cant be decent, though) and he has some pretty big holes in his swing that dont lend themselves to big adjustments. He’s a hacker with big power. He’s just not patient enough to hit for a high AVG. His bad years will look awfully bad… but he should put up some good years, too.

If he can stay at 3B I like him considerably more. That would make a huge difference. I dont think he can, though… so he most likely becomes another run of the mill 1B.

by alskor on Oct 8, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions  

You also left out the important number

.308/.338/.496 6 HRs in 36 Gs/133 ABs

Still a hacker. A few extra hits fell in and gave him a better AVG and SLG over these 36 games… Now if his AVG falls down to where we would expect (Lets be charitable and say league AVG – .275), then his line would look like: .275/.308/.463 (assuming extra base hits remained stable – which they likely wouldnt – just a fun, simple exercize).

Im also thinking he might be the kind of guy who feasts on bad pitching but cant hit good pitching…

by alskor on Oct 8, 2009 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

completely agree

“feasts on bad pitching but cant hit good pitching” – exactly what I was thinking, but said way better than I could do it.

by slickterp on Oct 8, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow very convincing

verbal punctuation at the end of your argument: “dumbass”. Cmon man. You have to be better than that but maybe you arent. Him “blowing chunks” as you so eloquently put is why this is such an interesting topic.

You have a guy that dominated minor lg ball in 07 and 08. Did very well in his big league debut. Then had a terrible spring training and terrible first half. He went down to AAA, did very well and was much improved in the second half. I think he will always be a high K guy. It is just whether he can hit 30-35 HRs in spite of his K rate.

"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto

by Michael Cave on Oct 9, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

everything you wrote

is right on the mark.

I just wanted readers to know kinslerhomer is a dumbass. His mother knows it. His friends know it. I think the readers here should know it too.

by tuna411 on Oct 9, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those numbers should disturb Davis fans.

ISO down to .188 from a guy who regularly posted ISOs over .250?

Those who say he’s changed his approach or swing mechanics are right, and they’re not great results. By the OPs numbers, I’m still getting a 25.7% K rate, which is a lot closer to his minor league numbers. I also see by Fangraphs that his groundball rate went up while his flyball rate went down, as did his line drive rate. That’s not great. Groundballs hit hard (and Davis swings and hits things hard) will get you more singles, and pad the average quite a bit, but that’s not what Chris Davis is supposed to be about. Flyballs are where the power numbers come from, especially in Texas.

Davis’ problem, all along, has been his contact rate. When he hits the ball, it flies off the bat with a ton of force. But if he’s not putting wood to the ball, then it’s not going to do anything. Modifying his approach to slam the ball into the dirt more often has apparently helped cut down on K’s from his horrendous numbers before, but it’s not doing much for his power stroke.

Davis has turned into Robinson Cano with twice the strikeouts. Yeeeesh.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Oct 9, 2009 5:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

We had a large enough sample size to know his skill sets before.

Power, bad contact, bad plate discipline, okay defense.

What we’re doing here is recognizing the trend due to a changing circumstance. It has been brought up that he’s changed his approach and his swing mechanics. No, the sample size isn’t large enough to be confirming, but the trend of what we do have shows that the changes, if any, have had different results.

More observation is needed, for sure, but this is not a bad sample to take for trend analysis of the new factor.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Oct 10, 2009 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not many young players change their approach and see immediate, huge successes.

There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical about Davis, there’s no need to reach.

by PissedMick on Oct 9, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too soon to tell

No one has any idea how Davis is going to turn out and anyone making definite statements about his future is being rather foolhardy. At the beginning of this season, he looked terrible, all of the negative aspects of his game incredibly amplified. He barely even resembled the player he was the past few seasons. When he was sent down, he made a concerted effort to fix his swing mechanics and work on his plate discipline. We haven’t seen enough to say what the outcome of those changes will be (or if there will even be any effect, long term).

There are a variety of outcomes that match his skillset/position on aging curve, some more likely than others, but all possible.

- He could improve upon his poor BB:K while retaining his power and become a legitimate force in the lineup. (e.g. Richie Sexson)

- He could improve upon his poor BB:K while losing some of his power, but becoming a more rounded hitter (e.g. Derrek Lee )

- He could maintain a poor BB:K overall, but draw a few more walks and become a super streaky TTO (e.g. Mark Reynolds?)

- He could have a few big seasons then become a good role player (e.g. Tony Clark)

- His game could stagnate where it is, thus becoming a role player/starter for a poor team (e.g. Mike Jacobs)

- He could revert to the form he showed earlier this year and be relegated to minor league slugger (e.g. Mike Hessman)

etc.

by aCone419 on Oct 8, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

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by Jordan Tuwiner on Oct 9, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sample size, breaking up seasons and context

For those who want to look at Davis’ first half of the season and write him off a a terrible major league hitter as well as those who want to look at his good second half last season and this season and say he’s got what it takes to be a good MLB batter:

Your approach is all wrong.

Was Chris Davis incredibly good in his 317 PAs in 2008? Absolutely.
Was Chris Davis incredibly bad in his 277 PAs to begin the year before his demotion? Of course.
Was Chris Davis promisingly good in his 142 PAs after he was recalled to the majors? Yes.

The problem we are having is that people are split on how to take these 3, seemingly separate sets of statistics, and how they apply to Chris Davis’ future.

There are a few ways that one could look at this:
1) Add up the PAs from the Good Chris Davis, add up the PAs from the Bad Chris Davis, compare which one is more and then assume that the other was the aberration and toss it out the window. (i.e. Chris Davis is Good Chris Davis the majority of the time so far so that is his future)
2) Take the Bad Chris Davis as the true Chris Davis moving forward because that’s the much bigger sample size in his most recent season.
3) Ignore everything so far in his major league career and expect him to hit like his minor league career (adjusted for the majors of course).
4) Take his most recent season as a whole as the Future Chris Davis (with a little room for regular development).

The truth is that none of these are good ideas to do. Let’s look at it this way—we always want the biggest sample size we can get, right? So why would it be a good idea to take an already semi-small sample and cut it up? Does it actually make sense to expect that smaller sample to be a more accurate representation of that person than the bigger sample?

The best way to understand Chris Davis in the present and moving forward is to understand that everything he does (every PA) is added in to this big pot that is Chris Davis’ performance. From that big pot we have a better understanding of who he is. That gives us a good point of reference from our starting context. From there, we should weigh his very good sized minor league sample, weigh it with scouting reports and then weigh it along with his major league sample.

Projections are always difficult because there is so much that has to be taken into account, specifically the variables of player development. Some players develop. Some players don’t. Some players take steps backward. We have so many good statistics, but we still can’t really project with much confidence what is going to happen.

For Chris Davis, the biggest thing I’m worried about is his lack of walks. He’s had a fairly steady walk rate in the majors with an average of 37 walks per 620-ish PAs (season). Even projecting his hot streak at the end of the year over 162 games, he has a rate of 32 walks per season. There was not a single major leaguer this year with that few walks and more than 125 Ks. Based on Davis’ performance between the majors and minors I don’t think we can expect anything better than 160-200 Ks per season.

Chris Davis has something working against him that will be very hard for him to overcome—he has a very high swing percentage, both out of the zone and in the zone his numbers would place him in the top portion of the league, and a very low contact rate, he would be in the bottom three based on his career numbers as well as this year’s numbers. This is the biggest problem that Davis has and I don’t know if he can overcome it.

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by nobodyinparticular on Oct 9, 2009 3:21 PM EDT reply actions  

The problem here...

Is that now we have, essentially two piles of data. You have Chris Davis before his recent demotion, and you have Chris Davis after his return. Normally, a demotion to AAA by itself doesn’t mean much. But when we get word that soandso player has changed something about their approach, then the data following said change has to be looked at as it’s own sample.

We know what Chris Davis was before the change. Hacker, insane power, no walks, okay defense. What Chris Davis is now is what we’re trying to observe. Since all we have is less than 200 PA to go with, and we don’t have anything else to go by until next year, we get to work with this for now. The point isn’t to declare any conclusions, but to recognize what is happening, hypothosize if it will continue, and observe. The current data leads to a significant change based on the premise of a mechanical adjustment in his swing. If it continues, we’ll know for sure. Then again, he could revert back to his old mechanics and none of this will mean anything.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Oct 10, 2009 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Looks like Branyan's numbers to me

And that’s what I see from Davis. Someone who will bounce around with several teams and have a pretty good year or two. Definitely major-league caliber player, but not an all-star, and maybe/maybe not a starter.

The wind is in the buffalo.

by journeymen on Oct 20, 2009 10:37 AM EDT reply actions  

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