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Detroit Tigers Top 20 Prospects for 2009

Fidrych_medium
I had a low strikeout rate. . .

Detroit Tigers Top 20 Prospects for 2009

 

All grades are EXTREMELY PRELIMINARY and subject to change. Don’t get too worried about exact rankings at this point, especially once you get out of the top 10. Grade C+/C guys are pretty interchangeable depending on what you are looking for.

 

1) Rick Porcello, RHP, Grade A-: Went back and forth on this one due to the K/IP issue, but ultimately decided to give him the benefit of the doubt due to his youth. More of a Webb/Zambrano type than a Beckett.

2) Ryan Perry, RHP, Grade B: Best of the power bullpen arms the Tigers drafted in 2009.

3) Brett Jacobson, RHP, Grade B-: Second-best of the power arms. Stuff not quite as good as Perry but better command.

4) Casey Crosby, LHP, Grade C+: I want to see some actual data beyond the GCL, but fall reports are promising. Much higher ceiling but concerned about command.

5) Jeff Larish, 1B, Grade C+: I don’t buy him as a third baseman, which makes him trade bait. I believe in the power, but won’t hit for average.

6) Cody Satterwhite, RHP, Grade C+: Another impressive power arm. The Tigers gathered a bunch of these for the future pen. Command an issue.

7) Wilkin Ramirez, OF, Grade C+: Put some of his tools together last year, but the high strikeout rate and problems with breaking balls remain serious concerns.

8) Scott Green, RHP, Grade C+ : Another lively high-ceiling power arm from the 2008 draft best-suited for relief work.

9) Casper Wells, OF, Grade C+: Added to 40-man roster after surprisingly good 2008 season, an under the radar guy who produced power and speed.

10) Alex Avila, C, Grade C+: Strong bat, I think more power will come, not sure about where he fits defensively.

11) Rudy Darrow, RHP, Grade C+: Extreme ground ball tendency along with decent strikeout rate, looks like a nice middle reliever.

12) Casey Fien, RHP, Grade C+: Another relief candidate with a good arm, good command.

13) Chris Lambert, RHP, Grade C+: Ex-Cardinal prospect revived career after trade, looks like he can be a useful inning-eater type.

14) Luis Marte, RHP, Grade C+: Another power arm, struggled in Double-A but I think he has some sleeper potential.

15) Robbie Weinhardt, RHP, Grade C+: Another promising reliever from 2008 draft.

16) Cale Iorg, SS, Grade C: Ranked 3rd on the BA list, but I am extremely skeptical about his bat. I just don’t buy the “future all star” hype. I could be wrong, but his brother Eli has exactly the same weaknesses and looks like a failed prospect. Their scouting reports were quite similar at the same stage. If his name was “Cale Jones” instead of “Cale Iorg the son of a major leaguer,” would he have the same reputation?

17) Scott Sizemore, 2B, Grade C: I’m not convinced about his bat, either, and he doesn’t have Iorg’s athleticism and defensive skills to fall back on. Am I underrating him?

18) William Rhymes, 2B, Grade C: Will hit for average, but old for a prospect, looks like a good role player.

19) Brandon Hamilton, RHP, Grade C: Young and projectable, command fell apart in A-ball but will get more chances.

20) Dusty Ryan, C, Grade C: Strong arm, has power, but other than 73 at-bats at Toledo and 44 in Detroit, he’s never been a good hitter.

 

Others: Duane Below, LHP; Kyle Bloom, LHP; Brent The Eternal Prospect Clevlen, Andy Dirks, OF; Brandon Douglas (a sleeper) SS; Alfredo Figaro, RHP; Charlie Furbush, LHP; Jon Kibler, LHP, Noah Krol, RHP; Jonah Nickerson, RHP; Anthony Shawler, RHP; Zach Simons, RHP; Tyler Stohr, RHP; Ryan Strieby, 1B; Jade Todd, LHP; Danny Worth, SS.

 

As usual, don’t sweat so much about where the Grade C+/C types rank exactly on this list. After I get past the top 10 I don’t worry so much about exact placement, since I’m trying to concentrate on the book right now. Some of the Grade C guys could be C+ in the book, and vice versa.

 

SYSTEM IN BRIEF

    The Tigers have a weird system: they have one impact talent (Porcello), then a whole slew of power bullpen arms. Their position players are either future role players, or “future regulars” who are (in my opinion) dramatically overrated by other sources. I could be wrong, but given the totality of their track records I just don’t buy Cale Iorg and Dusty Ryan as future lineup mainstays for a good team. The guys with tools (Iorg, Ramirez, Ryan) have severe strike zone/contact problems, while the more polished guys lack tools. One possible exception is Casper Wells, who no one is talking about but who performed well in an across-the-board way in 2008. He seems to do a lot of things well, but I’d like more data about him. Wells might pull a Matt Joyce on us.

     I do like the collection of arms they have gathered, not just the big names from the 2008 draft, but also under-the-radar guys like Darrow, Fien, Marte, and Figaro. There should be plenty of parts for the bullpen soon, but they need someone to start games besides Porcello.

     I expect I might actually get more flack some of the C+/C ratings than I will for the Grade A- for Porcello. I know the strikeout issue is important, but given his age I suspect that will resolve itself in time. I have gone back and forth on the grade several times, and I suppose it might change again before the book goes to press next week. As I see it, trying to grade Porcello involves threading a needle between excessive devotion to sabermetric orthodoxy (the K/IP problem) and buying into traditionalist groupthink. I’m doing my best to be purely logical about it, and my logic says (right now anyway) that given his age, experience level, and projectability, that he did just fine last year. I would be more worried if he hadn’t put up the strong GO/AO mark.

 

     Full reports on these players and over 1,000 others can be found in the 2009 Baseball Prospect Book. Pre-order for January 31st shipping now!  


0 recs  |  Comment 48 comments

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Skelton

What might Skelton’s grade have been had he been retained.

 There is more depth in this system than I thought.

by aCone419 on Jan 8, 2009 12:50 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

The comments make Crosby sound better than Perry or Jacobson.

He is a potential starter, and has the same strengths and weaknesses. Does proximity to majors overwhelm that?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2009 12:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

partly

partly, he’s younger and has less of a track record. Also I want to see how he gets his command back after TJ.

by John Sickels on Jan 8, 2009 1:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Irony

Mark Fidrych had a 10.6 K per 9 in his debut as a 19 year old in rookie ball.

When he was in A ball he was nearly as bad as Porcell – 5.6 K/9.

by alskor on Jan 8, 2009 2:13 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

What does 5.6 in the mid 70s translate to today's game -- 7?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2009 2:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But I'm really curious

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2009 5:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What's that?

You mean “that guy” as in the guy that looks stat context? He’s got a point – it was a different game when the bird was coming up through the minors. I’m also sure Fidrych wasn’t given the restrictions Porcello was. Translation – that comparison is useless.

by slurve on Jan 8, 2009 6:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

If Porcello starts talking to the ball, his Ks will increase.

Everett, Laird, Treanor, and E. Jackson. Print those WS tix now!

by sportznut3081 on Jan 8, 2009 8:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

There was a joke in there? Other than your prospecting ability?

by slurve on Jan 13, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Casper Wells

is a mind-bogglingly interesting case.

He had a monster college career, but against the weakest of D-I baseball.
14th round pick though, not too shabby.
But then he fails short-season ball not once, but twice. In his THIRD try (most college draftees never get three shots to crack short-season) he does good but not great. Still has trouble making contact.
Then he is hitting .240 in low-A this year, granted with power and speed in a pitchers paradise, and somehow gets to skip High-A and beats the snot out of AA for the next 400 ABs.

What the?

by nms on Jan 8, 2009 3:07 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Haha

Yeah that is a real interesting case.

by jfish26101 on Jan 8, 2009 3:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be surprised....

To see Casper end up getting some ML ABs this year due to injuries.

Everett, Laird, Treanor, and E. Jackson. Print those WS tix now!

by sportznut3081 on Jan 8, 2009 8:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jonathan Kilber?

where’s the love?

by Matt Rox on Jan 8, 2009 4:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Rick Porcello, RHP, Grade A-

Oh boy. I can hear the collective splat of PaulThomas, Alskor and few others jumping off of bridges. Just say it – he’s a top 25 prospect. It’s not that hard.

by slurve on Jan 8, 2009 6:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Since I never denied he was a top 25 prospect Im fine with it

He’s still the top of the B+’s in my book, though.

by alskor on Jan 8, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Guillermo Moscoso

Hi John,

This guy is listed as #10 in BA and his #s are pretty good. You don’t have hm listed at all?

by Mrbaseball1948 on Jan 8, 2009 8:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

He and Melo were traded for Larid:

13) Guillermo Moscoso, RHP, Grade C+: Nice pickup from the Tigers. Durability and role are issues.

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 8, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hollimon, Crosby, De Leon

Hollimon is walking the fine line of prospectom, but I’d imagine he still merits some discussion. The shoulder was an issue for him in the second half, and I’d wager his stick revives when healthy….though he’ll be pretty old for a prospect at that point. Probably not much more than a utility guy.

Crosby actually looked very good at Instructs. He was throwing strikes routinely (72% in the three-inning outing I saw), and was actually working his fastball to both sides of the plate with regularity, while sitting at 94-95. Impressive, impressive stuff.

No mention of Darwin De Leon seems puzzling to me. There were concerns the stuff didn’t match the numbers in the DSL in 2007, but the fastball ticked up this year and was consistently at 90-92 for Oneonta and the same at Instructs. His breaking ball and change-up also gained additional consistency. If he’s not already on the radar, he should be…..

Mark J. Anderson, Jr.
Managing Editor
TigsTown.com

by Microline133 on Jan 8, 2009 9:08 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thoughts

While Cale Iorg has some concerns making contact. I wonder how much of that is because he was away from baseball for 2 years doing a religious mission.

Hollimon’s injury probably saved Ramon Santiago’s job. Leyland liked him and I do like Hollimon was a backup MI.

Another solid draft and some guys making progress this year that are C/C+s and all of sudden the system looks a lot better.

by Jubilation on Jan 8, 2009 9:49 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

how long

until Ryan Perry is Detroit’s closer? What are the odds he makes his mlb debut this year?

by richieabernathy on Jan 8, 2009 9:54 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Perry

I’d say the odds he debuts this year are extremely good.

Mark J. Anderson, Jr.
Managing Editor
TigsTown.com

by Microline133 on Jan 8, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd agree

Perry, Fien, and a few others should make their debuts at some point this year in that woeful pen, and perhaps be key contributors in the pen by 2010 possibly.

Everett, Laird, Treanor, and E. Jackson. Print those WS tix now!

by sportznut3081 on Jan 8, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yay

Our system doesn’t completely suck!

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jan 8, 2009 10:06 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well...

Dave Dombrowski has consistently said that he believes the minor league system is better than most seem to think. It looks like John at least partially concurs with that opinion. Personally, I believe that it’s an interesting system that’s pretty thin at the top, but could look much better this time next year . I thought the comparisons to the Houston system were pretty absurd.

by Brian8603 on Jan 8, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

I looked at John’s grades and thought the Tigers were worse than I had thought they were going to be…

This system kind of… well, sucks…

One gem in Porcello and then some bullpen arms that wouldnt rank high in any decent system. Then a lot of question marks… a couple high school arms I liked and very little positional talent. Take away Porcello and this might very well be the worst system in baseball. Take away Porcello and compare them to Houston, for instance.

by alskor on Jan 8, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

re

Good thing we don’t have to take away Porcello then :)

by SBcaptain2 on Jan 8, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

+1

It’s a farm system with a good collection of arms at least.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jan 8, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Crosby, Furbush and some of the other young hard throwers a lot

but there really isnt all that much (bullpen arms do nothing for me, but theirs are pretty good.)… and I dont think anyone could really make a claim to grade those guys higher than C+’s.

Its a system with the potential to have a decent amount of good pitching in a year, if nothing else.

by alskor on Jan 8, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If they were starters instead

would that change your viewpoint? Whether they’re in the bullpen or the rotation, a quality arm is worth the same. If Perry, Satterwhite, Jacobson were starters, I think you’d be a little higher on them.

by Oost on Jan 8, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not entirely true.

What percentage of major league relievers are failed starters?

Relief prospects arent to be ignored, but they do deserve a discount…

by alskor on Jan 8, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agree

in general they should get a discount. would it make a difference that the 4 top picks (perry, jacobsen, satterwhite, green) were all starters in college? i’m not entirely sure if they just wanted to limit the pitch counts on all of them, if they think the biggest need for the big club is bullpen, or if they actually think they have no shot at starting effectively.

by The Fume on Jan 9, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Green, Satterwhite, Perry, Jacobson

In my conversations, all four will be used in relief long term. There are some thoughts of maybe trying Perry in the rotation at a later date, but there are also a significant amount of skeptics of that path within the organization.

Mark J. Anderson, Jr.
Managing Editor
TigsTown.com

by Microline133 on Jan 9, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the info!

Interesting move for sure then that they’re going with 4 relief pitchers in the draft. I like it that they’re not afraid to buck conventional wisdom. Hopefully it pays off.

by The Fume on Jan 9, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

bullpen arms

Bullpen arms may not rate that high in a ranking of prospects, but they are awfully important to the success of a team. The Tigers have the potential to put together a very good, inexpensive home grown bullpen in a year or two.

by SBcaptain2 on Jan 8, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Now to put together a rotation...

I am dissapointed that DD spent so much time and money acquiring relief arms in this last draft- it seemed to be overkill and too much for my tastes.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jan 9, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know

there are multiple studies trying to put a value on a draft pick. Do you have an opinion on this John? Do you have a study of your own. Do you think the 7M Detroit spent on Porcello was a good move for the organization – of course time will tell, but I guess I mean did you think it was a good decision at the time. And have you altered your stance?

by Toddius on Jan 8, 2009 11:11 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

bullpen arms

I think if some of these bullpen arms pan out for 2010, the Tigers will be very happy, as that is their definite weakness on the major league level right now. The lack of starting pitcher candidates (outside of Porcello) is worrying. On one hand, the probably 5 starting pitchers (Verlander, Bonderman, Galarraga, Jackson, Miner) will all be either 26 or 27 next year, but on the other hand they all have questions.

On the brighter side, I think there are a lot of guys who could quickly increase their status with a good 2009: Crosby, Avila, Iorg all have great scouting reports; Jacobson, Perry, Satterwhite and Green have the arms and will be in their first full seasons; Wells just has to prove 08 wasn’t a fluke, and Ramirez supposedly has the high upside although I’m a bit skeptical. And they do have some decent arms in the lower ranks….odds are one or two will step up in 09.

by The Fume on Jan 8, 2009 12:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Just an observation, but once you pull

Iorg and Sizemore out of the top prospect equation, there are few position players of note. Excluding Porcello, the entire list seems dominated by RH relief pitchers. I looks like the Tigers are fully commited to FA for rebuilding.

by sdtribefan on Jan 8, 2009 12:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Porcello

I like the grade John, think you are right on with the assessment.

by MightyMoose on Jan 8, 2009 8:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

With the #9 pick of the 2009 draft, the Tigers select......

Who would you take?

Everett, Laird, Treanor, and E. Jackson. Print those WS tix now!

by sportznut3081 on Jan 8, 2009 8:19 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Arm

Dombrowski has a propensity for taking power arms. If Tate falls (a la Maybin in 2005), he should get consideration too.

by CW11 on Jan 8, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Unfortunately, DD is too enamored with the radar guns and not if a guy actually has control, or some solid secondary offerings.

For once, I’d like to see him draft a guy with pinpoint control whether or not he throws extremely hard.

As a Tigers fan, its extremely frustrating to watch these guys come out, and they can’t throw strikes.

While I figure he’ll a lot of SPs during the course of the draft, I also hope that he finally looks for a replacement for the “great” Brandon Inge at 3B. They also need catching in the worst way as well.

Everett, Laird, Treanor, and E. Jackson. Print those WS tix now!

by sportznut3081 on Jan 8, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Catching

I’ve heard good things about Alex Avilla. While he’s new at C defensively (either new or bad), he’s got a good bat.

And there’s nothing wrong with drafting power arms. My issue is that the system is dead in position prospects. We really need MI prospects, and a few high ceiling OFers wouldn’t be bad either.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jan 8, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think

John Sickels has an interesting and valuable take on the Tigers’ prospects, but he’s in no way the only authority on prospect skills or projections. For example, the Tigers left Rhymes off the 40-man in favor of Simons, yet Rhymes is ranked higher than Simons (I know they’re preliminary rankings). Also Strieby had a very good offensive year at Lakeland – one of the best in the system, yet John includes Lambert, who had a very average year at Toledo, over Streiby. Kudos to John for sharing his thoughts with us, though.

by Oost on Jan 8, 2009 9:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Always thought-provoking

I agree with the Porcello grade…a 19-year-old in his first year of pro ball handling hi-A like he did is remarkable, but he didn’t put up the sort of dominant numbers one would expect from a true A or A+ guy.

Anybody else look at Perry and see Kyle Farnsworth part 2? Same sort of ultra-hard, incredibly straight fastball often left right over the plate, and the same plus slider thrown with maddening inconsistency. I actually feel like Jacobson, Satterwhite, and Weinhardt may all end up being more successful than Perry.

I love Crosby’s velocity, but does he have any secondary stuff to speak of?

I actually see a lot of talent in this system, but they all come with a question mark or three.

Can Ramirez improve his pitch recognition?
Can Iorg do the same?
Has Wells turned a corner?
Can Marte stay healthy?
Can Hamilton find any sort of command?
Can Strieby bring his power to Erie?
Will Avila hit for any power?
Can Ryan lay off breaking pitches or learn to block balls in the dirt?
Will Porcello improve his K numbers?

by ChrisBrown on Jan 9, 2009 5:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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