Well, that explains the Lucky Foot trade...
by drjayphd on Jan 28, 2009 1:52 PM EST
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PrintWell, the Cubs have shipped Olson and Ronny Cedeno to Seattle for The Immortal Aaron Heilman. Yes, really.
Cubs general manager Jim Hendry, who was returning from a trip to Italy on Wednesday, couldn't be reached for comment. But one baseball person said Hendry has been an admirer of Heilman's "since he pitched at Notre Dame.''Olson had been mentioned as a potential trade chip if the Cubs decided to make another run at San Diego's Jake Peavy. The Cubs' deal with Seattle could put an end to speculation about the team trying to acquire Peavy.
As per the article, Heilman and Sean Marshall are going to compete for the fifth starter spot, while Olson is one of (roughly) eight trillion rotation candidates for Seattle, behind Felix Hernandez, Erik Bedard, Carlos Silva, Brandon Morrow, Jarrod Washburn, Ryan Rowland-Smith and... well, you.
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You're shitting me!
I have a shot at the Mariners rotation? Wooohoooo! I always wanted to pitch for my favorite team.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
LOL
Well, I actually like the Putz trade a little more now. At least Cedeno has some upside.
As for the Cubs… well… they trade Pie and Cedeno for Heilman. Are you effin kidding me??? I am starting to get the impression that Hendry has no clue what he is doing.
Hendry
ya know, with the depth problems that the Mets have had in the OF, he likely could have gotten Heilman for Pie straight up for the Mets… and then he would still have Cedeno around.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
He's bad
backed up into some success but there is just no plan and the Cubbies have been throwing away value left and right for years now.
What?
Yeah, he’s backed into success – 3 division titles in 6 years as GM. Don’t come back with the amount the Cubs spend either – you don’t win 97 games in the toughest NL division without knowing what you are doing. I’m not a big fan of this trade, but some here need to seriously go back and look at some of the absolute steals he has acquired in his time with the Cubs – they FAR outweigh some of these minor / basically insignificant deals that people always bitch about.
Yeah but
For every Aramis Ramirez deal you mention, someone can point to a Juan Pierre deal. Hendry has made some good moves…and some terrible moves.. in his time at the helm.
Also helps when your main competition in the division spends a significant chunk of its payroll on pitchers sitting on the DL. But I agree that 3 division titles in 6 years is impressive nonetheless. The problem is, though, the Cubs better win this year and next year, because the lineup is old and there is nothing other than Vitters coming up through the system.
Pierre
wasn’t all that bad when you look at how big the need was and what was available at the time. I disagree that for every good deal there is a bad one to offset it – far from it.
The other thing you have to look at is the Cubs are getting ready to be sold for 900 million dollars – which is about double their value from what it was in the figures I saw in 2003 when he took over as GM. That fact in itself is quite an accomplishment – not all Hendry’s doing as John McDonough obviously deserves quite a bit of credit as well.
Well
then maybe we should just rank GMs by wins over the last x amount of years, devoid of context.
I didnt say he was the worst in the game, but I do not think he is a good GM. Payroll/Market is an issue, and although he has made some good trades and signings he has made plenty of awful ones.
If the Mets knew they could get either Pie or Putz for Heilman
Why would they choose Pie?
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by OldProspects on Jan 28, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
WTF............
I cant believe this is this a joke?Please tellme it is. Hopefully the new owner will fire hendry because apparently hes gone senile.
Seriously
5 years of Olson + 3 or 4 years of Cedeno are not worth a year of Heilman – especially when he’s not a pressing need. Pie, Cedeno, Olson – none of them are dealbreakers for me, by any means, but you cant just give away value like that when you dont have to.
but this is the year.
Obama said he would have to instill "some flinty Chicago toughness" into Washingtonians.
Olson?
Do you really think this guy will figure it out? Cedeno would never get a chance in Chicago. I will blame Lou Piniella waaay before Hendry. He has backed the Cubs into some bad situations by playing favorites. Either way, Hendry seems to be making moves just to make them at this point.
I like Olson plenty
Strikeout pitcher with good minor league numbers… struggled in his rookie debut. Why should we put so much emphasis on the debut?
His stuff isnt that bad
Its not front of the rotation, but its not bad at all. I keep hearing this and this is just spin. No truth to it.
From BP last year:
Olson has three solid pitches with an average (89-91 mph) fastball, power curve, and decent changeup.
He lacks the one true plus-plus offering to be a star.
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6894
I dont understand how reports like this(and what KG wrote here is pretty consistent with everything we’ve always heard about Olson) have been construed to mean an “utter lack of stuff.” The same thing has happened to Michael Bowden IMHO. Lack of front of the rotation stuff doesnt mean “utter lack of stuff.”
Agree that it's not an utter lack of stuff, but
The BP report is off from how Olson pitched in the 2nd half last year. The fastball was down a tick (86-88 mph) on average. It’s also straight, straight, straight. The curve wasn’t tight, and Olson had great difficulty throwing it consistently. The change was below average, coming in about five miles behind his 4-seam.
He struggled in the minors initially after being promoted before getting it right, then usually put of some pretty decent numbers. His MLB time may simply be that adjustment peroid.
If this is true...
than he must have looked great in the first half. Since Fangraphs had his fastball at 88.6 for the year, and the change at 81.2, he must have been at 90 and 78 in the first half if what you’re saying is true.
I'm not construing anything
I’ve seen Olson pitch at least a dozen times since that report was written. He has a slow, straight fastball that he can’t locate effectively, and his secondary stuff is just as inconsistent.
I take some solace in his minor league numbers, but there are very good reasons to doubt whether he has the stuff to succeed in the majors. I hope it’s just an adjustment period because I’ve been a fan of his for awhile.
What, then...
do the Cubs, Mariners, and Padres (at least) see in him? Surely he’s been scouted by these teams. In your opinion, why are they all targeting a guy without the stuff to succeed in the majors?
Couple thoughts
I’m guessing the Cubs saw him as a way to get something else they wanted. For the Padres I’d assume it would be the 5-6 years of team control of a guy who could post decent numbers playing half his games in Petco. I’d say the Mariners are probably in that same boat, why not grab as many young, cheap SP options as you can, then let them battle it out? If Olson doesn’t make the rotation, you can send him to AAA or use him out of the pen vs. lefties or as a long man. Not a lot of downside to a player like that for a team trying to get better.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
Well at least he admitted to being on a trip while made the trade
You can’t buy that kind of honesty. Seriously though, this is a nice trade for the Mariners. Two younger works in progress with plenty of potential for an older veteran of questionable value. It is like the reverse of the Perez-Choo or Broussard-Asdrubal trade, how can you ever justify trading two guys with awesome names for a 1B platoon.
by tdot mariner fan on Jan 28, 2009 4:41 PM EST reply actions
i like this for the cubs
i think the mariners got good value as well, but heilman as either a fifth starter or a seventh inning guy is a good piece on a good club….and cedeno was out of options, so with the glut of infielders in chicago, he was expendable….i’ve also heard olson was out of options as well, but i’ve not seen that confirmed anywhere….so really the cubs may have just dumped two guys they’d have to DFA in march anyway for a guy who could save the arms of their starters by being that solid 7th inning guy they need…
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Remember though
They would have to DFA the two of them because they signed Aaron Miles (who Cedeno is leaps and bounds better than) and Joey Gathright (who Felix Pie is leaps and bounds better than – but his presence forced a trade of Pie…. for a guy they ended up trading once again).
I like the statement that Hendry seems like he’s making moves for the sake of making moves. Yeah, these are fairly minor moves, but he has also downgraded his bench as a result. And if the Cubs start having injury problems in 2009, Hendry will only have himself to blame for having to start Joey Gathright and/or Aaron Miles.
-1
Aaron Miles was brought in for one reason – he can hit lefties, which is most definitely an upgrade for the bench, not a downgrade as Cedeno/Fontenot couldn’t hit a lefty to save a life. There was definitely purpose for making the moves – not making moves for the sake of doing so which is as ignorant of a notion as I’ve seen on this board.
Wait wait wait......
So, Hendry signed Bradley because he can hit righty…. yet you are arguing that Hendry’s moves are good because Miles can hit lefties. Does that make any sense to you?
Yes
Comparing one move to get starting OF who can hit RHP to a move that brings in a bat off the bench who can hit LHP is like apples and oranges. And the notion that Cedeno is “leaps and bounds” better than Aaron Miles is strange to me. In what way is he leaps and bounds better? Is it his batting line of 269/328/352? Nope. Miles hit 317/355/398. And their defense is close enough that Miles hitting makes him much better I believe.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
Exactly.
An infielder who could hit lefties was need. They addressed it.
WTF Milton Bradley has to do in that conversation is beyond me, but as long as we’re here – Bradley was signed because he can bat lefty, perhaps their biggest need this off-season in a RH dominated offense which was exploited in the post-season. Incidentally, Bradley hits well against lefties from the right side.
Olson is not out of options
that’s really what made this so bad for me. Pie was, though, and Cedeno.
Heilman hasnt been a good pitcher for over a year now
Heilman also badly wants to start and may get the chance – and he’s not good, so that’s even worse.
Wait and see...
Larry Rothschild has done some good things with some head-scratchers in the past. Matt Clement blossomed when he got to the Cubs. No one thought in their wildest dreams Dempster would do what he did last year. Rothschild was instrumental in his new pitch / improved control. Statistically he has been bad, but the Cubs scouts are pretty good with pitchers – I don’t think they would have have gone after him unless they thought it worthwhile.
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