How much are prospects worth?
Ignoring contract status.
How much do you think a prospect is worth? If you were a GM what would it take for you to deal your #1 prospect?
Price and Weiters are obviously the best prospects in baseball. How much would they net in return? Would you not let them go for anything? Would you move them for ARod? How about for a young already proven all star like David Wright?
What would you want for a top 10 prospect like Travis Snider or Jason Heyward? A top 20? A top 50?
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33 comments
Comments
All I can say is
The Evan Longoria’s and Joba Chamberlin’s were at one point in time top prospects as well. That’s why you don’t trade them in hopes of becoming the next big star.
by Jay212033 on Jan 17, 2009 9:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
A prospect is still just that, if you can get a above average player with some contract left then pull the trigger. Surely its a case by case basis but a bird in the hand…
"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women and Irish Whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
by strums on Jan 17, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It all depends.
Is a team rebuilding or competing? How big is their window? Etc. Etc.
Regardless of money, players like Hanley, Wright, Braun aren’t being traded for anyone in REAL baseball.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by JDSussman on Jan 17, 2009 9:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It would...
have to be for a star player, but it would take more than just him for the player depending on how good they are. Like if the Orioles were to trade Matt Wieters, it would have to be for someone like Hanley Ramirez, but he could not get Ramirez on his own. It would take a deal like Wieters and Jake Arrieta for Ramirez, but that is the only type of player he would be traded for.
A player like Travis Snider, Jason Heyward, or Cameron Maybin could be dealt for a lesser star, but it would still have to be for a star. Like the Cabrera and Willis for Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin and lesser prospects, there were two top prospects and some lesser ones traded for a star and a decent starter. That trade is actually a good example of top prospects values.
by joegonzo on Jan 17, 2009 9:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
NoteL Contracts
Hanley, The marlins wouldn’t do that deal given Hanley’s contract situation. It would take a lot more to get a player of his caliber with such a team friendly long term deal. That is why Florida laughed at Boston. I don’t think there is a package they would accept today. In a few years when Hanley has a year left on his deal he probably will be moved. IE Miguel Cabrera
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by JDSussman on Jan 18, 2009 1:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hanley
As soon as he signed that contract with Florida, I said it is just a matter of time before he is traded. He should have just went through the arbitration process. He will be bacck in Boston some day. As I said just a matter of time. I don’t care if Florida is getting a new stadium, they have an owner that really doesn’t care about winning.
by CoolCat23 on Jan 18, 2009 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It really depends on the player and situation. ARod is a good example. He’s among baseball’s elite, but I think it’s highly unlikely that the Yankees would be able to get a prospect of significance not because other teams don’t believe in his talent, but would be unwilling to take on his contract.
by mg050369 on Jan 17, 2009 10:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If you really take into consideration finance, performance, position, age, and skills together
Matt Weiters could possibly the most VALUABLE player in the game right now.
by Take3 on Jan 17, 2009 10:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yes, lets take into consideration the non-existant performance
by Navi's_Navy on Jan 17, 2009 11:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot
What about his “capable of dominating Double A”-caliber skills?
It’s entirely possible that Wieters puts up a .850 OPS next year in the majors. But it’s at least equally possible and probably much more likely that the guy struggles a bit.
Learn from Alex Gordon, who mashed in AA, then struggled in the majors in what was technically his AAA year. If you consider last year to be his true rookie year in terms of player development, then he’s doing just fine despite what some will tell you.
by mrkupe on Jan 18, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Possibly, but
I’d say it’s probably someone like Hanley Ramirez who is already an established star and has signed a long-ish deal buying out at least one or two FA years.
by mraver on Jan 18, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A good way to think
Look at what Boston is asking for in exchange for Clay Bucholz. Granted, it’s not a great example, because Bucholz’s stock has fallen, but it’s reasonably fair.
To be more abstract, I’d say that a good prospect is worth an above average major leaguer or a decent star. It really is a case by case type thing though… I wouldn’t do Price for Sabathia, for instance, but I’d do Price for Gallardo (maybe) or Price for Lincecum (definitely).
by demondeaconsbaseball on Jan 17, 2009 10:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
asking for?
Boston wont trade Buchholz for anything… Texas just keeps asking for him. His stock isnt much changed except with some foolish people around here. He was the #1 pitching prospect in baseball a year ago. He had a rough 76 Inning debut rookie season. Only the idiots that have knee jerk reactions to every trend are down on him. Top prospects who dont have dynamite rookie seasons don’t lose value with people who know anything. Around baseball his name is still golden. For the 800th time, not every prospect is Evan Longoria – not everyone explodes onto the scene as a ready made All Star.
by alskor on Jan 18, 2009 4:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stock
Stock goes up and down based on performance. Buchholz had a rough year last year and his stock has certainly gone down. Now teams are going to try to lowball the Red Sox in trade talks involving him. That’s just the way the game is played. I wouldn’t trade him either, because I would rather have a pitcher on my staff with top of the rotation potential, than a catcher that maybe one day could hit 20 home runs in a season. But if the Red Sox are hell bent on having an allstar calber player at every position, in a kind of keeping up with the jones strategy. Than that is the price they are going to have to pay. Why don’t they call the Cardinals about Bryan Anderson? Or Angels for one of their many guys?
by CoolCat23 on Jan 18, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They did check on Napoli. I think they want Varitek back, really.
Im saying I dont think Buchholz’s stock has changed much around the game. I think its mostly changed in the minds of fans and dopes on here. Best pitching prospect in the game has a rookie season where he struggles in 76 IP… that doesnt usually change that guy’s stock all that much. Rookies struggle.
by alskor on Jan 18, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd think that someone would have come up with a formula by now
Project a player over the length of his years through arbitration and assign some sort of value to that. I’m sure you could throw in a bunch of variables like payroll flexibility, market size, contending team, branding, etc and decide what kind of veteran contract/player this prospect’s value would relate to. I’m sure teams already have something like this on hand but I don’t know of any analyst that has made a set valuation formula for something like this available to the public.
by uwbadger on Jan 17, 2009 10:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ask
and ye shall receive.
Granted, it only covers a small number of draft slots, but it is only “Part 1”…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jan 18, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Take3
“If you really take into consideration finance, performance, position, age, and skills together Matt Weiters could possibly the most VALUABLE player in the game right now.”
I AM SPEECHLESS……are you serious?
by UrRoleModel on Jan 18, 2009 12:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wieters' Penultimate Value
Obviously, it’s a toss-up between Wieters and Stephen Strassburg. If they haven’t yet been tested, they have yet to fail, and thus, are truly infallible Major League players.
by ILuvDaBush on Jan 18, 2009 3:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
you need to check the definition of penultimate. It means second to last.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Jan 18, 2009 3:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know...
My comment was said tongue-in-cheek. I thought I made it blatantly obvious. But as a poster has already opined, prospects with no track record in the majors truly have no major league value outside of projection. The top player in the minors who has yet to sniff a major league spread would most likely be Matt Wieters. And the player in the amateur ranks who many are already proclaiming as a major-league ace would be Stevie S. Why? Because they’ve done similar things in a different setting. I don’t deny that there is a decent probability that both of them could well become all-stars. But Seaver Sheets could well become a Hall-of-Famer. Until they do it against the very best (or in the case of the NL West, players paid to look the part), they have no value.
by ILuvDaBush on Jan 18, 2009 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
CC Sabathia
I think the CC Sabathia trade is a good example of what ML-ready, top prospects are worth. Few would argue that Matt LaPorta was one of the top power prospects, as well as having one of the most disciplined eyes (what his other one is doing while he’s at-bat, I do not know). Some have argued that his bat compares quite favorably with Ryan Braun’s (while I would argue Gamel was the Braun to LaPorta’s Prince, both in power, contact, and patience). However, that top prospect’s worth (at least when combined with Mike Brantley and Rob Bryson) was set at a few months of CC Sabathia. LaPorta is an interesting case, though, because of his advanced age (as well as LaPorta’s affiliation with Satan….er…Boras).
And for every Hanley Ramirez, there’s an Andy Marte (both traded by the Red Sox).
What I find a bit confusing is that position prospects are far easier to predict than pitching prospects, and yet top pitching prospects are far less likely to be traded. TINSTAPP!!! For every Scott Kazmir, there’s the absence of Johan in pinstrpies or donning the crimson sox (and when I say this, I allude to the fact that Theo wouldn’t give up Clay in ANY deal…while dangling Lester).
How much are prospects worth? I don’t know. What will you give me?
by ILuvDaBush on Jan 18, 2009 3:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Even taking into account that this is a PROSPECT blog...
I think a lot of people are greatly overrating prospects. Price I believe is much, much more valuable than Wieters for one. He has already proven that he can get Major League hitters out in a high stress situation. Wieters is a great prospect, definitely a Top-2 guy right now, but he has not proven that he can hit Major League pitching. Shit, he hasn’t even proven that he can hit AAA pitching yet. People here have a penchant for only seeing the best case scenarios for current prospects. There are tons of prospects, even top ones, who never pan out. Just take a look at the Top 100 from 2004 that is posted here. Or John going over past years 50 Hitters and 50 Pitchers.
If ever given the chance to trade a top prospect for an established star, do it (barring it being the last few months of a contract, then you have to think about it). Do you think Milwaukee regrets trading what they did for CC Sabathia? I doubt they do. They paid 1/2 a season’s salary and gave up one top prospect, one decent one, and another player. What did they get out of it? I am sure their attendance went up, which earned them money. They made the play-offs for the first time in like 25 years. And they are getting two draft picks out of it to replace the top two prospects they lost. It was a great trade for them.
A prospect is still unproven. As someone else said… take the bird in the hand.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Jan 18, 2009 3:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Didn’t we just look at a few 2004 lists….? Alex Gordon killed the ball in the minor leagues (YES HE STILL HAS TIME) and hasn’t yet put it together in the MLB. I’m too busy to add more recent one.
Agree 100% percent.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by JDSussman on Jan 18, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the sentiment
in that for a competitive team, you almost always want to trade unproven talent for proven talent. Its a no doubt decision short term, but there are long-term ramifications that can’t be ignored.
The Brewers are a great example of this, and I think its still too early to call exactly how the Brewers will feel about the CC deal. He gave them almost as much of a short term boost as possible, but it was still short term, and they’re now in a position where they’re missing their two best SP from 2008. CC was a high risk move at the time for a number of reasons: he was a rental, the Brewers are in a smallish market, and they have many of their better players reaching FA in the near future. What happens if they don’t get Sheets, Fielder wins a record setting arbitration case, and they lose 90 games this year (all just hypothetically)? They’ll be in a pretty tough spot. If they still had LaPorta, they could stomach trading Fielder off and still have a very good chance to make up for at least some of his offense by promoting LaPorta, plus they would clear a good chunk of payroll to replenish their pitching staff in addition to whatever talent they get in return for Fielder.
However, as it is now, trading Fielder is much more lateral move. Sure, they’d still clear some payroll and acquire some talent, but they would lose Fielder’s bat without having much resembling a cheap replacement, so they’d just be sacrificing offense for payroll space. Unless you deal with a major market team, you won’t get a polished power bat back for Fielder, since a smaller market team would probably rather just stick with their guy. The Yankees don’t need help at 1B, the Mets and Cubs don’t have any true advanced power hitters in their system (Though Vitters or F-Mart might qualify a year from now), and I doubt the Red Sox would be willing to give up a Lars Anderson type guy for Prince when they’re relatively well set at the corner infield spots to begin with. So maybe the Brewers could still trade Fielder for pitching and then sign a more expensive FA power bat, right? Well, the market for 1B FA next offseason is bone dry, headed by the aging Carlos Delgado and enigmatic Adam LaRoche. If they’re okay moving Braun to 1B, they could go after Matt Holiday or Jason Bay, but if/when either of those guys reach FA, I can almost guarantee that someone will be willing to top the best offer the Brewers can make, since the market for sluggers will be so thin.
So as it stands now, the Brewers have the potential to be a pretty difficult spot for a small market team. A few bad breaks in 2009 and they might need to consider completely rebuilding, a sacrifice which got them half a dominant year from CC and a trip to the postseason in 2008, but not the WS. IMO, if that occurs, the retrospective will be that it wasn’t worth it, and they should have been a little more patient instead of going for it all in 2008 with a team that even after adding CC, looked on paper to be a bit below championship caliber (mostly due to poor defense and a shaky bullpen).
DISCLAIMER: This is not a prediction on my part, in that I’m not assuming that this is the way things MUST go for the Brewers over the next few years. I’m just pointing out that they have a very organizational bust potential, and how disastrous it would be if said potential was to be realized.
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In reality
prospects get overvalued. The best ones in the game receive untouchable status similar to freakin’ Albert Pujols. Even in trades for big stars, big time prospects never seem to get moved, and even considering contract status, it’s looney to think these trades are fair. Santana for Mulvey, Guerra, Gomez and Humber? Adam Dunn for crap? You’d feel pretty good after making those deals. Pretty darn good.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 18, 2009 11:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
From a big market perspective
that is absolutely true. But for an organization with less financial flexibility, I think that’s an oversimplification. The Santana deal wasn’t a good one for the Twins, I’ll give you that. But with teams that have to cap their payroll around $50 million, spreading your risk among multiple cheap alternatives as opposed to one fairly expensive one makes sense.
That’s the same reason some prospects are deemed “untouchable”. Its not an organization couldn’t bear to part with so much talent, the key is so much cheap talent. If you can get 5-10 wins out of a player who you only have to play $600,000 to, that is completely irreplaceable in the modern baseball economy. Even if a player’s talent level isn’t even close to that yet, just the potential that they might get there someday means holding onto such a player at nearly all costs makes sense for any organization in any market, large or small.
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of Course
Albert was never a top prospect. Didn’t spend enough time in the minors to recieve that moniker.
by CoolCat23 on Jan 19, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols
I think he was referring to top prospects being on par in term of “untouchability” with Pujols. And in reference to Pujols lacking said moniker, I would think it was because he came up as a 3B, when anyone who saw the Cards-Brews game last year knows his BEST position would be 2B. Can’t put a square hole in a round peg. :-)
by ILuvDaBush on Jan 19, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
square peg: round hole.
Or maybe he just missed his REAL calling as a closer. That scowl on his face when he’s AB could probably work both ways. I’m sure Lidge saw that scowl everytime he went to the end-game bump last year.
by ILuvDaBush on Jan 19, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Value of prospects
A big reason for the overemphasis on prospects has to do with the way the game has changed. Most small market teams understand they can not compete in free agency with the yankees and red sox, so in order to compete those teams need those prospects. GM’s are smarter (well most are) these days and the spending on free agency has gone way up.
by FishHead on Jan 18, 2009 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
I dont think prospects are really overvalued. Prospects present a team with the ability to get a 20MM dollar talent for a league minimum salary for 3 years and 3 years of arbitration. In fantasy baseball on the other hand, people tend to put far too much value into the projection and possibilty of having an allstar waiting to happen to realize that every year many guys just dont succeed in the majors. Prospects hold much more value in real life than they do in fantasy baseball. Now unfortunately these teams also have to compete with the larger markets ability to get the top talent into their system with overslot bonuses, one reason im a huge backer of a hard slotting system
by PHGold09 on Jan 18, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Each situation is different
What I would want for a prospect would depend on my team’s situation. Since every team’s situation is different and prospects themselves differ — even WITHIN prospect groupings — I could imagine giving a variety of different answers, not because I was trying to be inconsistent, but because the situations and prospects would differ.
I follow the Giants. Ask me what I would want for any of their prospects individually, and I would be delighted to tell you my thoughts.
by sharksrog on Jan 19, 2009 8:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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