Biggest Prospect Failures, Part Two
by John Sickels on Jan 12, 2009 10:10 AM EST
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PrintOk, now let's turn to pitchers...
Biggest pitcher busts of the recent past....a lot of names are likely to be obvious. Do most pitching prospect busts fail due to injury, or are there any other commonalities?
PITCHERS is the topic in this thread. That's right PITCHERS.
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A few come to mind
Jesse Foppert, Chin hui-Tsao, Dan Meyer, keep going, keep going – injuries
Dewon Brazelton – rushed, emotional/maturity issues
Ryan Anderson – injuries, maturity issues, probably overhyped/overrated to begin with. Yankees fans who are expect the world from Brackman should proceed with caution and keep Anderson in mind
Waiting for April.
A few
Brien Taylor is the poster boy. Injury took him down.
Todd Van Poppel is another very good one. Great velocity, but a very, very straight fastball.
Bill Pulsipher is probably my favorite though. IIRC, he threw back to back no hitters in AA ball… only to succumb to injury and never amount to much of anything.
Pulsipher
I was so wrong about him. I thought he’d be the toughest of the three. It actually was a combination of injury plus clinical depression. At one point, he was actually afraid to go to the mound and needed therapy.
by Lunkwill Fook on Jan 12, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Todd Van Poppel
is the first guy I thought of.
Pulsipher, Wilson and Isringhausen all turned out to be a bit bust-like. Of course, Isringhausen reinvented himself as a reliever and has had a successful career.
Yeah
I would go with the 4 Aces for the A’s and Met’s at the same time, don’t remember all their names, but Van Poppel was the lead for the A’s and those three I recall for the Mets.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 13, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
On a completely unrelated note...
Taylor and I graduated from the same high school.
by BraveBronco0121 on Jan 14, 2009 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
+1
The kid also had major attitude (cocky).
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
For the Cardinals
Chad Hutchinson always comes to mind, even though he wasn’t as hyped as some of the other names that will appear here
I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9
I guess
none of these guys were that great of prospects, but some of the blood the Cards have left on the steps include: Bud Smith (although they turned him and Polanco into Rolen and sparked the “good years” for the Cards), Jose Jiminez, Manny Aybar, Jose Acevedo, Rene Arocha (who threw 44 different pitches, all of them hittable), Garret Stephenson, Allen Watson, and Donovan Osbourne.
Most of the busts
Will be guys with great fastballs that either
a) had no fb movement
b) didn’t develop command
c) didn’t develop secondary stuff
d) got injured
I’m pretty sure that encompasses all of the reasons. I can’t forsee any overhyped guy who didn’t have a great fastball.
The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns.
Ian Kennedy, Tyler Clippard, Chuck James?
There’s deffnitely guys who are overhyped because they can outsmart younger hitters but don’t have the stuff to be good in the majors.
Also, being a Yankee prospect could probably be listed as a reason.
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 12, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
bovine fecal matter
Ian Kennedy hasn’t failed at all. Tyler Clippard was a joke. The numbers IPK put up in 07 say that he can get big league hitters out. The guy is 23 years old. He needs time.
Never said he was a bust
just overhyped. He won’t be nearly as good as most people thought he would be.
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 12, 2009 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
But the consensus seemed to be
no better than #3 starter. He was never a big top ranked prospect since he flew through the minors so fast in ‘07. But entering ’08, after going from A+ to the majors in 1 season, BA had him at #45 in Top 100. That’s not so hyped.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Jan 13, 2009 2:26 AM EST up reply actions
There is a difference between
being overhyped and being well-known because he plays in NY. I read very few analysts who thought Kennedy would be a star and many who questioned his probability of success in the majors. Naturally, since he is a Yankee prospect, there was a lot of discussion about him, and likely many Yankee fans got very excited when he pitched well to start, but that is not being overhyped.
I really think fans outside of NY need to get a grip on this resentment. Big cities, media centers and cultural meccas draw publicity. It happens everywhere in the world. If anything, the permeation of the country by the media has elevated the profile of smaller cities. Nobody is “remote” or the boondocks any more. But there will always be more attention focused on NY, LA et al. That is not the same thing as hype.
James
Chuck James seems to have had a lost season last year because of injuries that had gone untreated in 2007. Even with his injuries in 2007, he was league-average. (His inability to go more than 5 innings was just a killer on the bullpen, but, again, he had a bum rotator cuff.) It remains to be seen whether he’ll ever be an effective major league pitcher again, but his rookie season he was legitimately good. As far as we know, he seems to have been undone by injuries, not an inability to retire major leaguers.
http://www.chop-n-change.com
by alexwithclass on Jan 13, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Jovanny Cedeno
Numerous injuries derailed him.
Also, remember the original Jose Capellan, the Braves flamethrower?
Expos 4 in a row : Josh Girdley '99, Justin Wayne '00, Josh Karp '01, Clint Everts '02
no wonder the farm was so barren.
Don't forget ...
Mike Hinckley. I know he wasn’t a first round pick but IIRC at one point, Baseball America ranked him as one of the top lefthanders in the minors.
Chris George
And everyone else who had that “next Glavine” tag slapped on them.
Other Royals
Jim Pittsley
Jeff Austin
I thought for sure Austin would at least be a solid mid-rotation guy.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
And everyone
who had the “next Maddux” tag on him.
Can we just say "generation K"
And be done with it? Plus I think they are all over a decade old as busts. Do you think Isringhausen was saved from being labeled a bust by his many years of solid closing?
Isringhausen
He actually went on to have an allstar caliber career. Albeit as a closer, but an allstar caliber career nonetheless.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=88
by RedSoxFaithful on Jan 12, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
Comparisons to Dalkowski….that’s epic.
by Daniel Plainview on Jan 13, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
re Dewon Brazelton
wasn’t he supposed to be as good as David Price?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
re: Brazelton
I know poor control and pitching instincts did him in. or was he just overhyped?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
They changed his delivery
After his first year, the Rays tried to tighten his delivery. That in turn made his mechanics go to spit. He was never the same after that, and was never able to pick back up his old delivery properly.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
overhyped and overweight?
I think Brazelton hit the buffet table out of frustration and it didn’t help his mechanics. Gotta love Sabathia and David Wells for being so special that way. (you too Mr. Kruk, Kirby, Butler, Snider, Wallace, and other fielders with “fall down range”)
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
Kirby, Gwynn and other cherubs
Kirby and Gwynn could both run well, even gracefully I thought, considering how rotund they were.
Joba actually reminds me of Brazelton physically but I keep reading where Joba’s demeanor is “well suited” to play for the Yankees. How big a factor are makeup, coachability, personal issues, and the Yankee effect?
"I didn't really say everything I said."-Yogi ism
Adam Eaton
Not once, but twice for the Phillies.
Brought in Andy Ashby who sucked for us, then Eaton sucked himself when we signed him again as a FA.
I think there were always questions about Brazelton
but he certainly was a bust. That challenge trade for Burroughs didn’t do either team any good.
There are always lots of pitchers drafted high who don’t make it. Bullington was a #1 pick. Matt Harrington hasn’t succeeded and I don’t think Billy Traber’s career has gone as the Mets had hoped it would, nor has Loewen’s in Baltimore. All were first rounders.
And then there are the other Pirate picks.
Carlos Hernandez for the Astros
Injury… apparently he is in the Rays minor leagues now being somewhat successful last season.
can't mention C Hernandez without Wilfredo Rodriguez
BA ranked him higher than Berkman and Oswalt at 2000 in Astros system.
Mike Harkey
Why would the Cubs want to draft Jack McDowell, Kevin Appier, or Craig Biggio?
www.fantasyrundown.com
All of your fantasy baseball needs in one place
Greg Miller, LHP - Dodgers
He reached #8 (second pitcher) on BA’s top 100 in 2004. Injuries derailed his career, though he’s still trying in the minors.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 12, 2009 12:15 PM EST reply actions
Jesse Foppert
I thought Foppert was the real deal. I’m sorry to say, I also pegged Jeff Allison as an ace – man he had potential.
For the Cubs recent history
I’d offer Juan Cruz or Angel Guzman. In Cruz’s case, he became a decent pen arm, but he was once talked about as a potential elite starter, TOR guy.
Colby Lewis
General suckitude caused his downfall. Twice in the top 100, 4X in the top 10 for the Rangers.
I will say it again
Kip Wells is one of the biggest disapointments in the history of pitching prospects. I have never seen a more mentally weak pitcher in my life, save Rick Ankiel.
the difference being
Ankiel got to the point where he couldn’t throw a strike, Kip has always seemed like he is afraid to throw strikes. I’d still take Ankiel and his inability to throw one over Kips general cowardice to believe in his stuff.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
If you are going by mentally weak
I think you have to put Brett Tomko up there.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 13, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Bobby Bradley
Looked like a great SP prospect in the lower minors before he got hurt.
I agree with Wells: Great stuff. … and little else.
As an A's fan, I'd have to say Dan Meyer was pretty freakin disappointing.
"We were s--, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Meyer
I think the A’s clung for too long to the idea of Meyer being a solid starting pitcher. He actually faired ok as a reliever last year, and coupled with his splits against lefty batters (3.38 ERA with 10/4 K/BB ratio in 8 IP), I think there’s a good chance he could go on to be a very effective LOOGY. However, as a starter? Yeah, I guess you’d have to say “BUST”
Brad Lincoln
I wanted the Royals to take him #1. Boy was I wrong.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
You can't be serious
Last year was his first since TJ surgery. Let’s hold off on the “bust” talk for now.
too soon?
Phil P-U Hughes
Ian so over hyped kennedy
Definitely too soon.
22-24 YO’s performing well in AAA are far from the end of their possible utility.
Volquez could’ve been called a bust after 2 poor callups in 2005 and 2006 plus a mediocre stint in 2007. 17 starts and 80 IP through then.
Not calling either of the 2 Volquez, just saying a bust is someone who pretty much done.
By your call, guess Buchholz would be included too. None should be.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Jan 12, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yup. Ryan Anderson.
He was supposed to follow in Randy Johnson’s footsteps. #1 prospect three or four years running. Injuries took their toll for sure, but now I’m always queasy when rating very tall pitchers now. (And although Jon Rauch is a nice setup man now, he’s not the stud starter I thought he’d be.)
OT: isn't mini-space needle
a chef now or something?
Ayup
"That is like saying my ‘upside’ is Brad Pitts face, with Einstein’s brain, and Ron Jeremy’s unit. It is nice to dream, but that ceiling isn’t going to happen." (King Billy Royal)
John Stephens
Not that he was the highest ranked pitching prospect, but he was one of the most intriguing.
I do think he made some top 100 prospect lists, though.
Couldn’t break a plane of glass, had an insane K:BB rate and K:IP rate in the lower minors. Some statistical analysts thought he’d be able to pull it off, scouts didn’t. Scouts won.
Never dive for a bunt
Supposedly threw over 90 before the fielding injury. Would have loved to see batters looking for a 90 mph fastball try to deal with that 60 mph curve…
Yep
Injuries did him in, and he wasn’t ever the same guy.
I certainly had high hopes for him.
Everett, Laird, Treanor, and E. Jackson. Print those WS tix now!
by sportznut3081 on Jan 12, 2009 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
He's turned out pretty well in the end
Just took him a long time to get there.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
I always liked
Mark Rogers from the Brewers… Crushed by injuries, but still young enough to maybe make something of himself… right?
Rogers....
I’d day the odds are against that…..too bad too. I was a huge believer.
Braves
Jose Capellan, Dan Meyer, Chuck James, Kyle Davies (he’s decent I guess). Moral of the story: don’t trade for Braves pitching prospects.
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 12, 2009 2:41 PM EST reply actions
Ah yes,
I think the Braves would like a mulligan on the Teixeira trade right now. Their farm would be stacked.
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 12, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Wainwright
is a great one. I would offer Jason Schmidt and Kevin Millwood as two successful Brave defectors, too.
Except for
Adam Wainright and Jason Scmidt
james and davies arrent busts becuase they were never projected to be THAT good.
except for
merkin valdez… or whatever his name used to be as a brave prospect.
he showed signs of promise this year when he made the bullpen out of ST, but once again, injuries derailed him and he’s several more surgeries this offseason.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 13, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Right,
So will he ever show that promise for any length of time is the question.
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 15, 2009 2:31 AM EST up reply actions
Joey Devine
I know he wasn’t a SP prospect, but a pretty highly ranked reliever prospect and though it looked like he might be a bust, he pretty much proved that wrong last year when he absolutely kicked ass for the A’s.
I always thought he would be good.
Didn’t like the Kotsay trade at all from the Braves perspective.
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 12, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget
Damian Moss
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 13, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
and the guy traded with Moss for Ponson
Kurt Ainsworth – broken shoulder blade, elbow inflammation, torn labrum and a torn rotator cuff + several surgeries derailed him. too bad, his career was quite promising, but never really got off the ground.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 13, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Adam Johnson
Brian Bullington?
John Van Benschoten probably can’t spell
at least my favorite Twin was Adam Johnson
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jan 12, 2009 3:03 PM EST reply actions
Matt White
What’s great about White is that he NEVER was that good in terms of performance, yet everyone ranked him high because of his signing bonus…
Vogt early, Vogt often.
It probably didn't hurt
That he was sitting on $2 billion in stone (unless that was a different Matt White).
"That is like saying my ‘upside’ is Brad Pitts face, with Einstein’s brain, and Ron Jeremy’s unit. It is nice to dream, but that ceiling isn’t going to happen." (King Billy Royal)
Every 1st round pick..
..by the Pirates from 1998-2002
future will be "Generation Trey"
Hughes, Kennedy, Joba
Hughes-Paul Wilson II
Kennedy-Sowers II
Joba-Isringhausen II if his shoulder and weight hold up.
Wow...
you obviously hate the Yankees. I think it’s more like this:
Hughes- Chris Carpenter
Joba- Carlos Zambrano
Kennedy- Sidney Ponson?
You must also hate the Yankees...
I mean, to be that unrealistic.
by byronlhsdrmr on Jan 12, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
I think Joba will be better than Big Z
but Hughes won’t be as good as Carpenter (at least as good as he was in his prime) and Kennedy won’t do much at all in the AL.
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 12, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Could be a good comp.
I think Hughes will have better control thoguh. And hopefully he doesn’t die so young. :(
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 12, 2009 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah that sucked
BIG TIME.
But I was watching one of DK’s starts the other day and later watched Hughes’ start against Toronto and they seemed very similar.
Kile was 88-90 for much of the game, Hughes was a little faster, about 90-92. Both didn’t have too much movement either. As for the breaking ball, Kile had a very special curve that Hughes doesn’t match. However, Hughes has a plus plus curve in my book and its one he can rely on to get ahead and put away hitters much like DK did.
Another point of comparison is mechanics. Both Kile and Hughes short arm(ed) the ball.
In DK’s Cardinal days, his control was very good as he walked just 58 and 65 batters in 232.1 and 227.1 innings respectively.
Nice writeup
Sounds pretty spot on. Still, Kile walked a lot of guys and Hughes should develop decent control. Maybe that will be canceled out by Kile’s curve being better.
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 12, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Hughes has life on his fastball.
Look what he did in second big league start. Watch the highlight film and tell me that his fastball didn’t have movement. That curve is very good. When hes right hes good. Hes going to be a solid number three starter who will eat innings.
Hughes' fastball
The issue is just that. Phil Hughes seems to have lost velo on his fb since getting hurt that night. As a prospect, and during before the ankle/hamstring, Hughes’ fastball was reported at 91-94, touching 97, if a bit straight. Since then, his fastball has been more like a 91-92 mph pitch that will occasionally touch up 94-95, and a fair amount straighter than it was.
Perhaps what we’re seeing now is what’s been there all along, and Hughes was just a product of hype, but his minor league track record was absolutely sterling and for those who saw him up until the no-hitter, it looked like the Yankees had gotten their hands on a piece of gold. Even upon his return from injury, Hughes posted an excellent September and was terrific in October action against a very tough Cleveland lineup. Provided he could stay healthy for an extended perior, I would not be surprised at all if Phil Hughes was able to find his old stuff and reclaim his place among the bright young stars of the game. It is far, far too early to label Hughes anything other than a work in progress.
As a Sox fan...
Recently enough to make this work, Mike Rozier. Bad attitude and fitness did him in…
Ryan Leaf counts
regardless of the sport, or of the circumstance really, the words Ryan Leaf are a stand-in for miserable failure. Even his parents have to think twice when trying to parse those words for meaning.
Eventually, the phrase ‘prospect failure’ will be gibberish, eliciting only blank stares. In a future thesaurus, that phrase will only be found in the fine, italicized print under the entry “Ryan Leaf”.
I bleed Angel red
by squarefootnatlpark on Jan 13, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
I think...
Kris Benson was a bust. Also, Anthony Reyes, Kyle Sleeth, Dan Moskos(I know it’s eraly but come on), Philip Humber, Colby Lewis, Angel Guzman, Brandon Claussen, Corwin Malone, Dennis Tankersley, Ryan Anderson, Tony Armas, Kip Wells, Matt Riley, Matt White, and Rick Ankiel(a lot of people thought he was going to be the Cardinals ace of the future at the time).
Moskos
I don’t know if he’s really a bust. Everyone knew it was a bad pick when they made it.
Right...
Moskos is not a bust, just an overdraft. Moskos will be a productive reliever, and that is all he ever was going to be.
by byronlhsdrmr on Jan 12, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
angel guzman
are we ever going to see this guy pitch ? i bought that hype hook, line and sinker.
Benson?!
The only way bust is applicable to Kris Benson is when one is describing his wife’s best trait. Benson hardly busted. He simply didn’t grow up to be an ace. Instead, he became a solid 3 starter for a number of years, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I also think the jury is still out on Reyes, since he’s still got plenty of time to establish himself. Rick Ankiel had a year as an ace, and has since re-emerged as an All-Star caliber OF. I cannot call that player a bust.
As a general rule of thumb, I think one should refrain from labeling a player a bust until the player is either a) in decline or b) out of the game. And even then, Jamie Moyer might still happen.
As a
Cardinal fan, Reyes killed me. Nothing hurt more than Ankiel’s demise as a pitcher. He had outstanding stuff.
Here's another one for A's fans:
Ariel Prieto -
Drafted #5 overall in the first round of the 1995 amateur draft – drafted ahead of the likes of Todd Helton and Roy Halladay among others.
hasn’t he kinda, sorta, carved out a nice little career for himself, though? I dunno if you could call the guy a bust when he’s still being mentioned on ESPN.com as a possible free agent pick up for the Mets or Cardinals. Seems like if you can garner that much attention, you’re probably slightly above the “bust” line at the very least.
yeah he was the nationals front line starter last year, I don’t think he really gets the bust label. Probably not a front line starter for anyone else, but not a bust.
Oh the Brewers list could be so... long...
The aforementioned Mark Rogers
Mike Jones
Kyle Peterson
JM Gold
etc. etc. etc.
I just sit back and root for the taser
Injuries....
Clint Everts
Loewen
Ryan Anderson
Rauch (nice transition to pen)
Neugebauer
Greg Miller
Tsao
Angel Guzman
Rafael Soriano (Pen transition)
Sleeth
Foppert
Ainsworth
Corwin Malone
Matt Riley
John Patterson (one good year)
Others who just never “got” it
Tankersly
Kip Wells
Chris George
Bruce Chen
Brazleton
Redding
Edwin Jackson
Jerome WIlliams
and I think Pirates pitchers have their own category
Bullington
Bradley
VanBenschoten
Burnett
F%$# TANKERSLEY !!!
i had the choice back when, and i drafted tankersley over peavy in my league. i’m a tard !
Well...
you should probably add Kip Wells, Kris Benson, Zach Duke(overhyped as a rookie and a prospect, his stuff is terrible), and the infamous Ryan Vogelsong(got him in return for Jason Shmidt) to the Pirates list. Ryan Vogelsong has to be my least favorite player of all time.
At least Zach Duke has had a servicable MLB career.
"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."
Duke was not overhyped
As a rookie his stuff was very strong. Nasty curve with a low 90s fastball. He comes out the next year and suddenly his fastball is sitting 86-87. Not sure what happened there.
Hrmm...
I don’t think Patterson can be called a bust, if only because he did have a very good year. The jury is still out on Miller, as he’s only 25 and still has a 100mph fastball. Furthermore, not to rehash an old thread, but I have a hard time believing Edwin Jackson could rightly be called a bust. He’s still got plenty of room for development.
Oh, and wow…the Pirates really did screw the pooch on pitching in this decade, didn’t they?
Cam Bonifay and Dave Littlefield just deserve a little box of their own.
"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."
Brazelton and Tankersley
Two guys that should be near the top of the busted SP prospect list for the last decade.
Homer Bailey
Might be joining those two guys at the top of this list in the next year or two.
Matt Anderson
Is Joel Zumaya on the same track?
Everett, Laird, Treanor, and E. Jackson. Print those WS tix now!
It seems to me
we’re going too far with the term “bust”. I mean sure, Juan Cruz has disappointed from what his absolute ceiling was, but the guy is a pretty effective setup man. I don’t think you can call more than just a disappointment. Busts should be guys that never made it for whatever reason, not someone who carved out an MLB career, in whatever form it was.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
I think...
a bust should be considered someone who didn’t come close to what everyone thought they would be. Someone like Juan Cruz may have done decent as a set up man, but the Cubs were really hoping he would be their ace of the future. It’s like if all David Price does with his career is become a decent reliver, I will consider him a bust.
Jeff Allison
It would be nice to have the pitcher equivalent of the Josh Hamilton story, but it doesn’t appear likely at this point.
Everett, Laird, Treanor, and E. Jackson. Print those WS tix now!
Mark Pawelek
When the Cubs got Pawelek in the draft, I was scared(I’m a Cards fan). Haha.
I thought this kid would be so darn good.
Grapevine
I heard it through the grapevine that he’s in the process of adding a really nasty, Koufax-like curve to his repertoire. Dude’s changed everything about himself, and is even growing some nasty, Jim “The Anvil” Neidhart-style goatee to symbolize it.
Who?
Or are we talking New Foundation-era?
"That is like saying my ‘upside’ is Brad Pitts face, with Einstein’s brain, and Ron Jeremy’s unit. It is nice to dream, but that ceiling isn’t going to happen." (King Billy Royal)
Hrm...
This would be during his days in the original Hart Foundation, along with Bret Hart. They feuded with the Bulldogs, and about 10 years later, “The British Bulldog” Davey Boy Smith joined Neidhart and Bret’s younger brother Owen to reform the Hart Foundation. Perhaps that’s what you mean by the New Foundation?
What About Yusmeiro Petit...
He was probably overhyped just because he was a Mets prospect. But his numbers were downright incredible for a couple years in the minors, and he had a lot of people thinking he could overcome the scouts’ doubts about his mediocre stuff (talk of a Sid Fernandez-esque ability to hide the ball comes to mind). When he got traded to Florida, I was a little sad – yeah, the Mets were getting Delgado, but I had been drinking a little too much of the Koolaid. I think by now it’s safe to say he’ll never keep the ball in the yard enough against hitters higher than AA (although his K/BB numbers are still tantalizingly nifty)
Petit
Look at the numbers over the last couple of years. As a 22/23 year old in Arizona, he’s put up an ERA in the mid-4s. Too early to call him any sort of a bust, and actually it’s not too hard to see this guy sticking around for a while and basically being the NL Andy Sonnastine.
He suffers from anti-SNTS and from pitching in the worst pitcher’s park in pro baseball (where, it should be noted, he has pitched VERY well in context).
John Elway
His baseball career never amounted to anything!!!! What a bust of a second round pick!!!!
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Jan 12, 2009 11:47 PM EST reply actions
Brownlie, Hagerty
Both supposed to be really good for the Cubs coming over those drafts and have done less than nothing
churchofbaseball.com
old school
for old giants fans…. how hyped was now padre broadcaster mark grant ? huge.
Also Mike Remlinger
And Salomon Torres
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 13, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
some guys just figure it out later in life, I guess.
Remlinger actually had a decent career as a short reliever, which came when he went to Atlanta and they figured out he wasn’t a starter. he even made an all-star team. He never really had a chance with the Giants.
Torres eventually had a nice career after he came out of retirement in 2002, but he certainly was a bust in his first go-around.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 13, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Fontenot & Steve Soderstrom
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 13, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Shawn Estes
Wasn’t a bust, and went on to have a respectable career, but after 1997 people were talking about him as the next Sandy Koufax. He never had good control (or even decent control), but then he lost the ability to strike anybody out as well.
Dustin Nippert and John Patterson
Two former highly-touted D’Backs prospects who have come through the Rangers organization. Nippert might still become something, but Patterson was ultimately brought down by injuries and retired. Too bad.
"I lost my virginity but I still have the box it came in."
- Unknown
nobody
touted dustin nippert, and certainly not highly. save for maybe the 70 family members attending every cincinatti game. as dumb as a lot of diamondbacks fans are, i think people unfairly expected him to be dominant right away because.. he’s tall. and if it looks like a randy johnson, it must pitch like a randy johnson.
Craig Hansen
Hansen could still turn it around but probably not. I was stunned the Pirates wanted this guy in return for Jason Bay. I thought the bad decisions by the Pirates front office would end when Littlefield left.
I don't see the problem with Pittsburgh getting Hansen
Considering he was one of 4 players received in the deal, his stuff still makes him a pretty good gamble. And once you consider that they actually drafted a legit top-of-the-draft player in Alvarez, they got solid return on Nady/Marte, and that they went over slot for some other interesting prospects later in the draft, I think that on the whole the organization has been doing much better in the past year.
The Whole Package Was Garbage
Jason Bay was Pittsburgh’s best player and he had a year and a half left on his contract.
The Pirates got:
-A third baseman who can draw walks, hit for average in the minors but not the majors, maybe hit for 20 HR power and steal few bases.
-A reliever with a big fastball, an inconsistent slider and little control.
-An outfielder who might be a .280, 10-15 HR hitter.
-A pitching prospect that had TJ surgery and is 3 years away so who knows what else could happen, though his potential is good.
This was quanity over quality.
I said it at the time and I haven’t been proven wrong, they should have gotten way more considering Boston desperately needed Pittsburgh to get a Manny deal done.
by UncleBuck44 on Jan 13, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
It's still too early to write off Laroche as a guy that can't hit for average in the majors
Plus, Moss may not be a prototypical slugger at LF, but UZR data makes him look like a far-above-average defensive LF.
Also, how could you have been “proven wrong” when there were only two more months worth of games to be played after the trade? It’ll take a couple of years to see whether or not this ends up being a net win for the organization or not.
Clocks Ticking for LaRoche
LaRoche has not looked very good in the majors and the Dodgers pretty much gave up on him(note how they had a hole at 3rd and went with Casey Blake instead). His production in LA was horrible and I’m just not sure why the Pirates would trade their best player for a question mark. Same goes for Hansen.
As for Moss, great, they got a 4th outfielder for their star hitter.
Hansen could have easily proven me wrong by pulling a Joey Devine. I could have understood that pitching for Boston was tough on him mentally and maybe he just needed a change of scenary. Instead, he went to Pittsburgh and was just terrible.
LaRoche could have proven me wrong by hitting well when given full playing time in the majors. A .152 average in 164 ABs isn’t good.
They couldn’t get some combo of Matt Kemp, James Loney, James McDonald, Michael Bowden or Justin Masterson in a deal for Jason Bay?
No for those Dodgers
Colletti, for all his bad decisions, hasn’t traded any major-league young talent. All the guys he’s traded were still in the minors. No chance you were getting any of the Dodgers regulars.
The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns.
And no for the Red Sox
Bowden or Masterson would be more valuable bringing in someone else on their own than they would be as part of a package deal for Bay. I’m still trying to make the Masterson/Teagarden trade happen, at gunpoint if need be…
"That is like saying my ‘upside’ is Brad Pitts face, with Einstein’s brain, and Ron Jeremy’s unit. It is nice to dream, but that ceiling isn’t going to happen." (King Billy Royal)
David Clyde
Remember him? Drafted by the Rangers out of high school after going 18-0 and giving up only 3 earned runs his senior year. He was immediately rushed to the majors as an 18-year-old just to sell more Rangers tickets. He spent a few years with the Rangers and Indians and was out of baseball with injury problems at 26. Poor kid never had a chance with a reasonable developmental program.
weird
I was just gonna post that although it is slightly outside the time-frame (by say 25 years), David Clyde was a bust. Then I saw your post.
I still have David Clyde’s rookie card. or actually, my nephew has it.
Sidd Finch.
Never played one major league game.
I resent this
I had other priorities. Can’t help it if SI decided to use me to sell copy.
by siddfynch on Jan 13, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Zach Duke
everyone thought he was going to be a #2 after his 14 starts in his rookie call up year. Any thoughts of him being a #2 seem looooong gone.
I agree - Noonan is as valuable as a dead horse… and he too should be beaten by some dude in a top hat who looks like he’s holding his junk.
by cool hand Charlie on Jan 13, 2009 5:37 PM EST reply actions
Michael Jordan
Clint Nageotte
A constant reminder to any Mariners fan why flashy A ball numbers cannot predicate MLB success. He had an average fastball, amazing slider with mediocre control made worse by injury, and a mediocre change.
Zach Jackson- Former 1st rounder that was rushed then traded. His secondary pitches really did not develop as desired.
Brad Hennessey- Has really fallen apart as his peripheral numbers suggested.
Adam Loewen- Never really found out how to command his repetoire and made worse by injuries.
Thomas DIamond- Never really adjusted to advanced hitters in AA. Really, the entire HDVD quartet were looking like flops until Volquez and Danks broke out this year. Jury is still out on Hurley.
Travis Blackley- Had to have TJ and has yet to fully recover. I think he can still be at least a decent 5th with possibly a little more because he is only 25, but is really a bust. I will always remember him for that 9 walk game he had.
by tdot mariner fan on Jan 13, 2009 6:33 PM EST reply actions
I doubt Blackley and Nageotte really count here.
Neither one was as hyped as Joel Pineiro was, and his success can be summed up on nine letters that start with “s”, ends with “s”, and rhymes with “steroids”. The fact that he still has work is amazing. We should have known the FO’s attempt to convince us that we had an excellent crop of starting pitching “on the way” was bullshit.
Still, when it comes to Mariners pitching busts, epsecially the last 10 years, Ryan Anderson pretty much is right at the top.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 15, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Since we're throwing names out there...
Van Poppel & Brien Taylor would be the biggies. But you have to give props to David Nied and Jim Parque. And then there’s Hideki Irabu and Kei Igawa.
by choo choo coleman on Jan 13, 2009 8:28 PM EST reply actions
Oh, come on
The Yanks were just trying to exploit one of the biggest market inefficiencies: the bias against fat, pussy toads.
"That is like saying my ‘upside’ is Brad Pitts face, with Einstein’s brain, and Ron Jeremy’s unit. It is nice to dream, but that ceiling isn’t going to happen." (King Billy Royal)
Nied/Parque
were derailed by illness and injury respectively. Parque posted a few good year with the Sox prior to injury. Nied was good, if not quietly solid over his Rockies career. Irabu and Igawa were over estimated by scouts. Not really busts, but definitely overpaid for.
"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree
Toe Nash
doesn’t even look like a name. More like an ailment. Or a dance craze.
Whatever happened to that guy (and his silver fox of a girlfriend)?
I bleed Angel red
by squarefootnatlpark on Jan 13, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Merkin Valdez.
And just to piss people off, I’m going to make a future call: Henry Sosa.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
For the Reds...Chris Gruler
He never made it on the prospect lists because he got hurt right away. He was the 3rd overall pick in the 2002 draft, being drafted ahead of Greinke, Kazmir, Swisher, Fielder, Hamels, Cain, etc.
Jose Canseco
Never did much as a pitcher, only had 1 ML inning and a career ERA of 27.00 and no strikeouts for such a powerful guy.
I think it was a mix of mental issues and HGH/Steriods that ruinied his pitching career
Roger Salkeld
I remember when he was coming up in the Seattle system in the early 90s, he was supposed to be the second coming of Roger Clemens. Salkeld was the #3 overall pick in the 1989 draft (four places ahead of Frank Thomas). Done in by arm injuries of course.
Other Mariner busts after that:
Erik Hanson, Dave Fleming, Brian Holman, Ryan Franklin, Joel Pineiro… and these are the ones who made it to the majors…
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Jan 15, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
I still cringe...
…every time a phenom is invited to spring training and told he has a chance to win a spot in the rotation. Salkeld had a triple digit fastball before he blew out his shoulder in spring training of ’92.
I really wish the O’s weren’t inviting Tillman to S.T. this year…
Craig Hansen.
We brought him up to early, which is why we are being careful with Buch and Bowden. He did help bring us Bay, though.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
Rich Hill and Homer Bailey, depending on what happens this year
but it doesn’t look good
Wait 'til the year after next
Dodger pitching woes
this is going back a little bit, but the Dodgers had that run of guys they were touting – Dan Opperman, Kiki Jones and others…I’ll be interested to se if Meloan ever amounts to anything in CLE now too.
If it wasn't for disappointments, I wouldn't have any appointments.
the biggest bust not named brien taylor
Felix Hernandez, i’m dead serious (though obviously cynically sarcastic of his worshippers), no one has performed at a lower level than they were expected to at this point, he’s good and the jury is still out, but if he doesn’t literally start walking on water, turning water into wine, dying and rising again or winning multiple cy youngs very soon, maybe the biggest bust of our generation
by IHateMitchMustain on Jan 18, 2009 10:14 PM EST reply actions
congratulations
that is one of the biggest exaggerations i have ever heard.
by richieabernathy on Jan 23, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Cubs pitchers might be worse than Pirates
Prior (He was so good but was physically and mentally weak), Haggerty, Blassko, Brownlie, Pawelek, Hill, Guzman, Kieschnick, Veal, and then there has to be others am forgetting.
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
David Clyde
I think he even made the cover of SI when Texas called him up in 1973. His career was over less than 6 years later. He finished with 18 wins over his career. For the all the hype, he definitely did not deliver the results expected.
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