Pittsburgh Pirates Top 20 Prospects for 2009
Age relative to league isn't everything. . .
All grades are EXTREMELY PRELIMINARY and subject to change. Don’t get too worried about exact rankings at this point, especially once you get out of the top 10. Grade C+/C guys are pretty interchangeable depending on what you are looking for.
1) Pedro Alvarez, 3B, Grade A-: If things turn out the way they should, no one will remember the contract hassle with
2) Andrew McCutchen, OF, Grade B+: Power has been a bit disappointing, and he still needs more polish on the bases, but defense is coming along and he’s improved his plate discipline. Still very young, you can still make an A- case.
3) Jose Tabata, OF, Grade B+: I know people are starting to wonder about him, but he’s still extremely young, just one year out of high school in North American terms. If a 2007 high school draftee hit .348/.402/.562 in a 22-game late-season trial in Double-A, people would be salivating.
4) Bryan Morris, RHP, Grade B-: An aggressive grade from me, but I’m impressed by how well he did one year after TJ surgery.
5) Daniel McCutchen, RHP, Grade C+: Looks like he could be a nice fourth starter, but possibly more dominant if used in pen.
6) Neil Walker, 3B, Grade C+: Slippage in strike zone judgment is worrisome, but he’s still quite young and adapted well to third base. When Andy LaRoche gets hurt again,
7) Jimmy Barthmaier, RHP, Grade C+: Overlooked refugee from Astros system still flashes good potential and did well in Triple-A.
8) Evan Meek, RHP, Grade C+: Love the power sinker and he’s shown signs of improved control, although it didn’t show up in brief major league trial.
9) Robbie Grossman, OF, Grade C+: Very toolsy, could be a Seven Skill guy if he maintains the patience he showed in very brief rookie ball trial. High ceiling, could rank much higher a year from now.
10) Jim Negrych, 2B, Grade C+: I don’t completely buy into the Carolina League power spike, but he should continue to hit for average.
11) Shelby Ford, 2B, Grade C+: Scrappy second base type, does a lot of things right though his tools are just average.
12) Matt Hague, 3B, Grade C+: He always hit in college, and he’s hit great as a pro, too. Will probably move to the outfield. An overlooked sleeper.
13) Ron Uviedo, RHP, Grade C+: Added to 40-man roster, looks like power bullpen arm with control.
14) Brian Friday, SS, Grade C: I like the glove and the hustle, but am concerned about bad back and lack of power.
15) Quinton Miller, RHP, Grade C: Very high ceiling guy, hasn’t pitched yet but scouting reports are strong. Baseball Prospectus’ Kevin Goldstein likes him a lot, and Kevin has a good eye for guys like this.
16) Romulo Sanchez, RHP, Grade C: Less than 50 innings so he qualifies. Lively arm, could be good bullpen asset.
17) Donald Veal, LHP, Grade C: Rule 5 guy from Cubs. Change of scenery and move to relief may do him a lot of good.
18) Brad Lincoln, RHP, Grade C: I’m afraid he might be the next Bryan Bullington, but it is too soon to give up. Needs another year past TJ to be sure.
19) Dan Moskos, LHP, Grade C: He pitched much better in the bullpen in August. Could make a really good LOOGY or maybe even a closer, but it is not his fault that the Pirates picked him instead of Wieters.
20) Jarek Cunningham, 3B, Grade C: Played very well in rookie ball, strong bat, his stock had dropped pre-draft due to injury.
Others: Brian Bixler, SS: Chase D’Arnaud, SS: Robinzon Diaz, C; Wes Freeman, OF; Jason Jaramillo, C; Brent Klinger, RHP;
As usual, don’t sweat so much about where the Grade C+/C types rank exactly on this list. After I get past the top 10 I don’t worry so much about exact placement, since I’m trying to concentrate on the book right now. Some of the Grade C guys could be C+ in the book, and vice versa.
SYSTEM IN BRIEF
The Pirates system is quite thin, but showing signs of improvement.
During the Dave Littlefield years, they avoid heavy investment in the draft and usually went with polished, cheap college guys, unfortunately without a lot of success. The killer was the choice of Moskos over Wieters in 2007. The new regime put a lot more money into the draft in ’08, going after guys with questionable signability but higher upside like Grossman, Freeman, Miller, and Cunningham. At the same time, they also mixed in college types like Mercer, D’arnaud, and Hague.
I like that approach. I think the best way to build a farm system is to mix both college players and high school players, guys with skills and guys with tools. Concentrating on one type of player to the exclusion of others is just asking for trouble. The Pirates went too far in the “polished” player direction under Littlefield, but I was concerned they might go too far in the “raw tools” direction under
In any event, the system as it stands now has three potential impact guys at the top, then a whole bunch of guys who could be good role players or are just too far away to tell yet.
Full reports on these players and over 1,000 others can be found in the 2009 Baseball Prospect Book. Pre-order for January 31st shipping now!
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34 comments
Comments
The comments make it sound like Grossman should rank higher than anyone
outside the Top 3, basically because John doesn’t seem all that impressed with the guys in between.
As a general question, how much should we pay attention to these comments in determining how much John likes a prospect?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2009 8:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He could...
rank higher than everyone and maybe even Tabata and McCutchen. He has really good tools and a really good work ethic. This guy would have been a supplemental first round guy easy if everyone didn’t think he was going to college. He has better tools than Nate McLouth with a similar work ethic. He could be a Lenny Dykstra type play with a little more power.
I also like Quinton Miller a lot. He has front end potential. He has three current pitches and can control all pretty well. He could be a Trevor Cahill type if he puts on some weight and grows another inch. He has potential for three plus to plus plus pitches. His fastball is currently around 91-93 and he could add more velocity. His curveball is probably his best pitch. His change is also good and he know how to use it. He could be a 1 or a very good 2 if he reaches his potential.
Also, does anyone know any more on Jarek Cunningham. I know he tore up Rookie ball last year, but what type of player is he? What current major leaguer is he most like?
by joegonzo on Jan 1, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
comments
well these are just very quick hits obviously. The more in depth stuff is in the book.
by John Sickels on Jan 2, 2009 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moskos over Wieters will be heard for year
Could be almost like Bowie over Jordan if Wieters is Piazza with Mauer’s defense and Moskos is Scott Schenwise.
by Bravesin07 on Jan 1, 2009 8:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wieters will never be like Piazza was offensively
and I’m skeptical he has Mauer’s defense. It wasn’t that the Pirates didn’t take Wieters, but that they didn’t take someone better than Moskos, that was the crime.
by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 1, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I actually wanted Heyward in that slot, which might not have turned out too badly, either.
Moskos was just such an obviously bad idea from day one.
by Vlad on Jan 1, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
if he threatened not to sign, or demand more, if he wasn’t picked by Atlanta.
by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 2, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wieters...
could be the best catcher of all time. The next Johnny Bench. That is actually not a bad comparison because he has a really good bat and good defense. I could see him going batting 315 with 30 homers and winning a gold glove or two.
by joegonzo on Jan 1, 2009 9:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
woah!
Wieters is a very good prospect who had a great debut. BUT i think you’re getting ahead of yourself. Greatest catcher ever? He hasn’t played in the majors yet. I understand your enthusiasm but slow down.
by LBDirtbags on Jan 1, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's why...
I said COULD be the best catcher ever.
by joegonzo on Jan 1, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And I could end up with Salma Hayek sitting on my face
But you and I both know it ain’t happening.
by Sethy on Jan 2, 2009 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well.....
Well we know 1 of those 2 are not happening for sure. The other only time will tell. lol
by cubsfan1 on Jan 2, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're saying he should wait till Salma's 80?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 2, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Andrew McCutchen
What kind of defense are we talking about here? Is he a true CF who is learning how to take better routes, hit the cut-off man, etc? Or is he a LF with good speed who seems like a waste in LF, so the Pirates are trying to turn him into a CF?
Basically, if he were a former Mets prospect, would he be closer to Carlos Gomez or Lastings Milledge?
Also, my browser finally let me create an account, so I’m a long-time lurker, first-time poster. Best prospecting site on the web, easily.
by fps31520 on Jan 1, 2009 10:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He...
is a true center fielder who is refining his defense and has the potential to win a few gold gloves.
by joegonzo on Jan 1, 2009 10:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cashman why did u do it
Jose Tabata looks fantastic, and you gave him away for Nady and a long lonely october
by sdhman11 on Jan 1, 2009 11:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Tabata
The grade seems aggressive, but I sort of like it. I can’t wait to see where he lands on your 50/50 or top 100 or whatever it is you decided to do this year.
by RedSoxFaithful on Jan 2, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Sickels
Please note that I agree with your grade and rationale regarding Jose Tabata, but I can’t help but feel this is the most glaring example yet of your anti-NY bias. It’s something you’ve admitted to before, but this instance seems to be the most obvious example yet because of your positive spin on Tabata. Had Tabata had the same season without leaving the Yankees, I think there’d be far more emphasis on the whole of his season rather than his AA performance, citing a small sample size. Furthermore, rather than going with ARL, I think you would be harping on Tabata’s conditioning.
Don’t read this the wrong way, as some attempt to impugn on you. I’ve been reading you since your days at ESPN, and I’ve been a regular commenter since 2006. I obviously think very highly of you and your work. However, this Tabata grade seems out of your normal range, and I’m curious as to why.
by GuyinNY on Jan 2, 2009 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have a good reason
You are correct that the grade would be different, but it would have nothing to do with anti-NY bias. More correctly, it would be a reflection of the player. Tabata appears to have had issues with the spotlight as well as being the guy everyone talked about. His tools did not turn into production and his entire profile suffered.
But, with a new organization, he no longer was “the guy” and was able to get away from the spotlight, and in some respects, that may have helped his production. If he remained with the Yankees with the same production, there would still be questions as to whether he could weather the spotlight in NY. Plus, with the harping media, of course the issues of conditioning and attitude would be played up. Now outside of NY, those questions regarding makeup take a backburner because of the new team. Its a fresh opportunity to start again. Thats why some prospects just need a new team (i.e. Brandon Phillips). His grade is still aggressive, but it remains a reflection of his tools and abilities. But with a fresh start, his “makeup” and “attitude” also get a new start as well and don’t weigh as heavily against him
by thudean on Jan 2, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Tabata got a B+ last year and people were whining about that being too high. Your evidence for bias is a hypothetical of your own construction.
by aCone419 on Jan 2, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Evidence
“Perhaps I am too contrarian when it comes to Mets and Yankees prospects. Call it pro-Midwest bias if you will. We all have out biases, the key is to be aware of them. I will think more about Gomez and will consider if I’m just being stubborn about this.” There’s more to be found in this thread : http://www.minorleagueball.com/2007/11/24/184840/14
This is not a construct, and I don’t appreciate your blithe tone. Mr. Sickels has admitted to sometimes underrating major market prospects, and I think this is just a case of that same bias swinging too far the other way. Thus, we can see Tabata’s ranking as irrational exuberance over a player performing after leaving the pinstripes. Once again, I don’t mean to cast dispersions on John, but rather to question the rationale behind an unusual grade.
by GuyinNY on Jan 2, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SPECIFIC evidence
Your evidence in this case is a hypothetical of your own construction. Tabata received the same grade as last year, and your evidence that his grade would have been lower here is a magical “what if” scenario that you have pulled out of the air.
You can question the rationale behind a grade without automatically asserting that your disagreement is due to someone else’s bias.
by aCone419 on Jan 2, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Fernando Martinez and Jose Tabata have been kind of lumped together for better or worse basically their whole MiLB careers. Both received a B+ grade this year from John. Martinez did outproduce Tabata overall this year, so I think if Tabata stayed in NY and didn’t hit any differently down the stretch than he had previously, he could have been a B grade. It comes down to how you want to interpret what Tabata did once he was traded to Pittsburgh. Did they change anything about his swing or approach? Out from the scrutiny of the NY media, has he started to live up to his potential? Was it just a hot streak? It’s hard to say for sure, but I don’t think there is any reason to think that John would have graded Tabata any differently if he came on that strong at the end of the year in NY.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Jan 2, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tabata could be another hanley ramirez
once he got traded away from boston he blew up. Same could happen to Tabata.
by Bravesin07 on Jan 2, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
moskos
will flame out next year, mark my words.
by Dray1996 on Jan 2, 2009 3:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brad Lincoln
Why so low, John? His stuff seems like it came back from the injury OK. Not sure I see the comp with Bullington (who never really threw all that hard, with the exception of the year he was drafted).
If worst came to worst, and the arm fell off, Lincoln probably has enough bat to be a prospect as a hitter (a-la Bogusevic).
by Vlad on Jan 2, 2009 5:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Burning Question of the Day
Who winds up as the Pirates back-up C – Jaramillo or Diaz?
by The Colonel on Jan 3, 2009 2:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Alvarez
I don’t see how it’s possible to justify putting Alvarez ahead of McCutchen or Tabata at this stage. Alvarez has no professional track record yet; McCutchen (who is only a few months older) and Tabata (who is younger) do, and while as John notes age relative to league isn’t everything, neither McCutchen nor Tabata have the contact issues that Hermansen did, which bodes very well for their futures. I’d put a B+ on Alvarez until we see what he does with a wood bat against high-A level pitchers.
I also think that saying Alvarez has “superstar hitting ability” is overstating the case. When I look at Alvarez, I see Troy Glaus at best – and Glaus was playing in the majors at the age at which Alvarez is now. “Superstar” to me says someone like ARod or Chipper Jones; that’s not Alvarez.
Mike Emeigh http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/minor_key/
by MikeE on Jan 6, 2009 10:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs








