Best duo of minor SPs?

by groundingout on Sep 15, 2008 2:30 AM EDT Comment 36 comments

With Price now in the bigs......

Bumgarner in low A

		15	3	1.46	24	24	1	1	0	141.2	111	28	23	3	21	164	0.86	.216

1.46

141.2

111

164

0.86

.216

Alderson in high A

13	4	2.79	26	26	0	0	0	145.1	125	48	45	4	34	124	1.02	.235

2.79

145.1

125

124

1.02

.235

Feliz in low A and AA

10	6	2.69	27	27	0	0	0	127.1	89	41	38	3	51	153	1.19	.201

2.69

127.1

153

1.19

.201

Holland in low A high A and AA

13	1	2.27	26	26	0	0	0	150.2	111	46	38	3	40	157	1.20	.209

2.27

150.2

111

157

1.20

.209

Cahill in high A and AA

1	5	2.61	21	19	0	0	0	124.1	76	44	36	5	50	136	2.43	.179

2.61

124.1

136

2.43

.179

Anderson in high A and AA

Poll

Which team has the best duo of pitching prospects?

Bumgarner and Alderson

107 votes

Feliz and Holland

81 votes

Cahill and Anderson

97 votes

285 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs | Comment 36 comments

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Comments

One o' them lines be missing

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 15, 2008 3:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I am going with Inoa and Walden. Okay, so Inoa is technically not in the minors yet…. but I am frigging tired of reading those six names above in almost every thread on this board. Do we really need another pissing contest between Texas, Oakland, and San Fran fans? Haven’t all these players been discussed enough? Besides…. best duo in the minors doesn’t mean crap. Let’s see one of them throw at least one pitch in the majors and then start discussing. Odds say at least one or two of those six never do that, and two or three more probably become nothing but slightly better than league average relievers in the long run. One, maybe two become decent or better major league starters. A more interesting question would be “Which of these six are the first to have an arm injury that keeps them out a full season?”

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Sep 15, 2008 3:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

those guys above are teammates. Inoa plays for Oakland while Walden plays for LAA…

BUT I do agree strongly about this thread. Its just an excuse for all the insane Michael Holland, Trevor Cahill and Bumgarner fans to butt heads YET AGAIN. Just let it go right now people! These guys are all good and its essentially impossible to tell who is going to be the best MLB pitcher out of them. Just stop.

by alskor on Sep 15, 2008 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who is Michael Holland?

Maybe you do need more Holland love.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Sep 15, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good call..

Proof yet again that my mind stops working at midnight even if I do stay up until 3am most nights lol.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Sep 15, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

remind me to email you late one night after the league reopens in november.

ANATOMY OF ERA:
Variables Don't; Constants Aren't

by variablesdont on Sep 17, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know, thinking about this...

it’s possible you’re just being sarcastic, but I have to say— if you would actually prefer Inoa/Walden to these pairs, you’re out of your f***ing mind.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 16, 2008 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dont know...

Walden can hang with the group above. Youd have to really love Inoa, but some people do…

Personally, I dont have enough info to have an opinion on him.

by alskor on Sep 16, 2008 4:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you love Inoa enough,

based on a few scouting reports, to believe that he is better than a bunch of players with substantial, dominant pro track records, then you are out of your f***ing mind.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 16, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eh...

I dont love Inoa that much… as I said I dont have a strong opinion on him

BUT I could certainly envision a scenario where I loved a guy based on scouting reports enough to believe that he is better than a bunch of players with substantial, dominant pro track records.

David Price comes to mind. Although we had more info on him, you see what Im saying…

by alskor on Sep 16, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's a bizarrely huge difference between a 16-year-old kid who's never thrown a public pitch

and a 21-year-old who has torched college lineups for three years. Has as much to do with the injury nexus as anything.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 18, 2008 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not that

I prefer those two, but you have to be careful with such strong statements, especially this early in their career. People called Casejud nuts for ranking Alderson in the top 10 last December. There were people who said Zambrano would end up being the Cubs ace when Prior and Wood were dominating. Prospects are fluid, and I see no reason those two couldn’t substantially raise their stock in the near future.

by slurve on Sep 16, 2008 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Feliz and Holland,

the future 1-2 punch for the TX Rangers!

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Sep 15, 2008 10:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yep..

and then DVD will clean up right behind them! Oh, wait…

by slurve on Sep 15, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

The D and V of DVD are actually doing quite well. Just not for Texas (like Chris Young and Duchscherer).

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Sep 15, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

gallaraga

for detroit has been a nice surprise

it will be interesting if rangers trade some positional depth at C/1b/DH etc for some more mlb ready SP’s to bridge the gap till their other sp prospects are ready

by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 15, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Surprise

is a good word. He’s been one of the luckiest pitchers in baseball.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 15, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's made good on John's projection

4 or 5 starter… I think even factoring in luck he’s that.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Sep 15, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DVD

Doesn’t matter how well they’re doing or not doing. One or both may not make it. One or both may be traded. More of a cautionary post from a Cubs fan I suppose..

by slurve on Sep 15, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jon Daniels is a genius!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 16, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Towers thinks he's a genius...

…at giving Christmas presents. The Rangers wouldn’t have been in such a rebuilding hole these past couple of years if Genius Daniels hadn’t given away Adrian Gonzalez and Chris Young. I like a lot of the things Daniels has done since then, but it’s entirely possible that he hasn’t traded for one player who will be as productive in the majors as Gonzalez is.

by aap212 on Sep 18, 2008 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

josh hamilton?

ANATOMY OF ERA:
Variables Don't; Constants Aren't

by variablesdont on Sep 18, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking of prospects, but I'd still rather have Gonzalez

Since Hamilton had pretty well established himself as a major leaguer with the Reds, I was thinking of Salty/Neftali/Ramirez/Andrus/Beltre, etc.

But even if you include Hamilton, I would rather have Gonzalez. A-Gon has 34 HR with Petco as his home park (his road line is 303/363/570), and he plays gold glove caliber defense at first. Plus he’s put up three very good or better seasons as a regular, even though he’s a year younger than Hamilton. He also has not shown any health problems, setting aside Hamilton’s other issues.

Petco is an extreme pitchers park, while Arlington is the opposite. Josh Hamilton is in his age 27 season and his road line is 260/329/443.

by aap212 on Sep 18, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Park factors

Baseball Reference say Arlington has been neutral the last 3 years.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, whatever it is...

Hamilton is hitting like peak Jim Thome at home and peak Ricky Ledee on the road.

The Rangers, as a whole, add a hundred points of OPS on the road, for what that’s worth.

by aap212 on Sep 18, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

the park does favor lefty hitters and I think that’s part of what’s going on with Hamilton.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 20, 2008 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Adrian Gonzalez is pretty good, but you're reaching here

His career EqA is .293; Hamilton’s is .304. Hamilton plays center field (rather badly), Gonzalez plays first (fairly well). So the defense is at best a wash.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 18, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reaching?

Gonzalez is a year younger, has a larger body of work, doesn’t have the scary splits, and has no history of injury (or other impediment to getting on the field). I think I would bet on those factors to close the gap.

by aap212 on Sep 18, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A year younger is essentially meaningless

“Larger body of work” means he’s LESS likely to reach Hamilton’s level. (If you don’t understand why, I would suggest reading up on the concept of regression to the mean.)

Can’t speak for others, but I really don’t care about splits; it’s hard enough getting large MLB sample sizes without dissecting the data even further.

Really the only thing you’ve got going for you is the injury/addict thing.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 18, 2008 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You must love Matt Holliday

I’d love to see Josh Hamilton hit like a star in other places before I drink the Koolaid. Plus, the larger body of work thing isn’t a mark against Gonzalez. Hamilton’s a special case, but guys who reach the majors earlier project better in the long term. I don’t think Gonzalez is a superstar or anything, but he hits like peak Konerko, is an excellent fielder, and has had no injury problems. Hamilton has more upside than that, but not by a lot at this point, and he has way, way more downside.

by aap212 on Sep 19, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't say park effects aren't relevant, I said SPLITS aren't relevant

A guy who plays at Coors and hits for an .800 OPS at home and a .600 OPS on the road isn’t a better hitter than someone at Coors who hits for a .600 at home and an .800 on the road.

Both of them are worse hitters than someone who hits for a .700 OPS at Petco. (Before you ask, EqA, which I used above, is park-adjusted.)

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 19, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Though I'm a Ranger fan

I voted for the Giants’ pair. Really, though, these three pairings are pretty close, and let’s all hope that all 6 stay healthy so we can enjoy watching them for many years.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 15, 2008 3:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs