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Dan Johnson and Joel Guzman: wha'happen?

Perusing the recap of tonight's Red Sox/Rays game (ef a dumb Tampa), a couple names jumped out to me: Dan Johnson, who had the game-winning hit off the bench, and Irvin Vigo Joel Guzman, who got D'edFA by Tampa Bay.

Which begs the question: what went wrong with those two guys?

A quick search through the archives turns up the Carlos Quentin/Joel Guzman Smackdown where Guzman was noted to have Miguel Cabrera-type ability "if he can gain sufficient command of the strike zone" but a comment in 2006 compared him to (ack) Richie Sexson (admittedly, in the Richie Sexson prospect retro). I'm assuming he just hasn't gotten that command, but has he been THAT bad that he couldn't get a chance to prove himself at the major-league level? Coming into the year, he'd only had 56 AB's between LA and Tampa Bay and put together a sparkling .232/.306/.321 line, but he's also only 23. Is there any hope for him (not like they're moving him back to SS, ha ha)?

Which brings us to Daniel Ryan Johnson. He was ready to come up in 2005, did so, and this here review points out that his power and patience were expected to be useful (he did kinda go .275/.355/.451 in 109 games for the A's). Aaaaaaaaand so far, in 1000+ AB's, he's gone .249/.344/.419. Matter of fact, tonight's pinch-hit appearance was his first at-bat since April 2. He was hurt in 2006, stunk out loud in 2007... just a question of old player skills?

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DJ

Honestly, I think he’s just been stuck in two organizations that are pretty deep when it comes the OF, 1B, and the DH spots in the lineup. Johnson could be a useful player for someone, but not as much for the Rays. At least not on an every-day level.

And Guzman has just been a disappointment.

by mraver on Sep 10, 2008 8:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Johnson

absolutely could be a useful player for someone. As an A’s fan I got to watch him daily with the A’s, and although he will never likely hit for a high average, he was one guy that you knew could pop one at any minute if he caught a pitch on the inner half. The power is there, but for some reason he always went through “pull-happy” streaks where he was constantly rolling over on outside pitches. He would go into prolonged streaks doing this and it would kill his stats. If he has worked on, and improved on this at all he could easily be a consistent .800 OPS player in the big leagues for somebody. I’m interested to see what he does with his next opportunity.

by JPShark on Sep 10, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Johnson

Johnson’s career has largely been stalled by injuries sidelining him in the instances where Oakland committed to giving him playing time. Granted, he did have some struggles, but I’ve always felt that if he had just been given the 1b job in Oakland in 2005 and was allowed to grow into it, he’d be an above average major league hitter (much like they’re doing now with Barton).

His numbers for Durham this year are pretty fantastic, so I’m sure if used correctly he will stlll be a solid contributor for the Rays, or they could give him ABs at the start of the season in the hopes he builds a little trade value.

by jibs on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Joel Guzman is a bad baseball player.

He’s got absurd, crazy, light tower power. But he doesn’t hit for any average, doesn’t walk, can’t hit a curve. When he makes solid contact, he hits the ball a long, long way. He hit in on the third story of a Condo construction site across the street last year. It was amazing, but he’s just not a big leaguer and I’m not sure he ever will be.

He’s also an enigma defensively. He’s never shown the ability to play the OF, but his skills at third are raved about during practice by coaches. However observations of his in game play are the exact opposite. He just doesn’t have good in game skills. I’ve heard the term ‘lazy’ or ‘unfocused’ thrown out there about his entire game. That knock followed him from LA. LA traded him because he pouted about not making the show. Since that year, he’s really regressed and hasn’t played well. Maybe a new start will help him, but that’s what the Rays were supposed to be. So we’ll see.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Sep 10, 2008 10:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great observations

Joel Guzman is what people call a practice player. He amazes scouts in batting practice and fielding drills but once the game starts, his weaknesses are exposed by the competition.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Sep 10, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

defense

I’m shocked to hear that anyone, anywhere has ever praised his defense at 3B. I went to over 20 Bulls games this year, and in that time, I think he made like, one play that impressed me. His arm isn’t impressive, and he doesn’t have very good range at all. I guess he doesn’t drop balls hit at him very much. But I think that’s about as positive as I can be regarding his defense. :-/

by mraver on Sep 10, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've been to about that many Bulls games

and his D does impress me. I think because he is SO BIG (and really, he’s HUGE) his D looks worse visually than it is. Hes a real good defender in my eyes

by nms on Sep 11, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm

I really respect your opinion as one of the more knowledgeable posters on this board, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone, especially no one at a Bulls game, express a positive opinion about his defense. Maybe it’s just because he’s so big that every play he makes look really awkward…. But it really seems like there are a ton of balls that he just doesn’t get to because he’s not quick enough to move his bulk over to get it.

by mraver on Sep 11, 2008 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last year in spring training, Maddon had high praise for his defense in spring training last year.

He said he looked better than any other 3B in camp. Longoria was in camp that spring. But I’ve heard a lot of negative things from Durham about him.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Sep 13, 2008 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stunk out loud in 2007?

His OPS+ was 108 in 2007. He didn’t have a high batting average, but his isolated patience was .113 and his isolated slugging was .176, so it’s not like he was awful or anything. The plan all along has been to have him as a DH option for next year, especially if Cliff Floyd retires as contemplated. I highly doubt he gets traded, and he should get a spring training invite, and is a decent enough backup plan if they can’t sign Dunn or Burrell and Floyd retires (and even if they do sign Dunn or Burrell, they can play RF well enough to warrant pushing Gabe Gross to the bench).

As far as I’m concerned, Joel Guzman’s best comp is Jared Sandberg. He just shouldn’t be in the majors. Forget about controlling the strike zone, he just doesn’t know how to hit pitches. He has massive holes in his swing, and even fastballs with good movement fool him. When he locks in, he has huge power, but unless he knows it’s a fastball down the middle, his swing is tentative, hitchy, and even on the slow side.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Sep 10, 2008 11:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Apologies

I was on deadline last night, so I was trying to get the post out while, er, doing my job, so I was just going off of ESPN’s stats. I just saw the .236/.349/.418 line and sub-.770 OPS while not really seeing him play last year. Looks like the patience was there, it was just that whenever he made contact, he either hit the crap out of the ball (39 of his 98 hits were for extra bases) or made an out. And here I thought stats didn’t lie. :(

"That is like saying my ‘upside’ is Brad Pitts face, with Einstein’s brain, and Ron Jeremy’s unit. It is nice to dream, but that ceiling isn’t going to happen." (King Billy Royal)

by drjayphd on Sep 10, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Johnson

Injuries have really hurt Johnson. I believe he had a sinus infection, and he also had a big problem with his vision. He’s simply never been healthy.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Sep 11, 2008 12:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He's also old

People also seem to forget that Johnson was already 25 by the time he became a legitimate prospect. While some late bloomers do become productive major leaguers, it’s much rarer than with younger players.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Sep 11, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Guzman

Infield-Wily Mo Pena. It just came to me!!!
And I love Wily Mo.

by BlackOps on Sep 11, 2008 3:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

How appropriate

At one point or another, each of them held the record for largest international amateur signing bonus (non-Cuban/Japanese).

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Sep 11, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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