Could Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy be the next Generation K

by Bravesin07 on Aug 4, 2008 10:23 PM EDT

These three remind me of those three over a decade ago. Joba is hurt possibly as he grabbed his shoulder tonight. Hughes has been injured the last two years with a serious leg injury and rib injury. Kennedy has already been shut down once for shoulder trouble and while he's pitched good in the minors he has been bombed in the majors. Joba reminds me a lot of isringhausen as he could become a dominant closer. Hughes reminds me of Wilson who was a #1 overall prospect but never stayed heathy. Kennedy, while he hasn't blown out an elbow like Pulcipher did but he could be a AAAA pitcher. What do you guys think of this. I know i'll get ripped by some but I make a very interesting point as these three were suppost to lead the yankees into the next generation.

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No … but Matt Cain, Jonothan Sanchez, and Tim Lincecum are.

by StickRat on Aug 4, 2008 10:31 PM EDT 0 recs

Aren't you a Giants fan?

You don’t want them to be Generation K. They all got hurt.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Aug 4, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

Gotcha. Sorry, I am guilty of not reading the post. I usually don’t post while watching a game. My bad.

by StickRat on Aug 4, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

Lincecum, Cain, and Sanchez are phenominal

if they can get any hitting their teams could be like the 70’s Orioles.

by Bravesin07 on Aug 4, 2008 10:40 PM EDT 0 recs

Sanchez

I can see putting Lincecum and Cain in the phenomenal category, buy Sanchez? Wow, have you seen his stats?

by was385 on Aug 5, 2008 2:03 AM EDT up 0 recs

I wouldn’t call him ‘phenomenal’ yet, but be careful judging him by the stats this year. Have you watched him pitch? It wouldn’t take all that much for him to move into that category (not saying he will though).

by haverecords on Aug 5, 2008 3:36 AM EDT up 0 recs

I have seen him

and I think he’s headed for being a solid middle of the rotation starter but that isn’t at all phenomenal. I’m not saying he isn’t a good pitcher but Bravesin07 is just severely lowering the standards of phenomenal.

by was385 on Aug 5, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yea Sanchez has tons of potential.

Thats why they have scouts. Got to go with Haverecords and say, “Have you seen him pitch?” he could be special, better than Cain even, probably not Lincecum tho.

Remember: baseball guys... baseball...

by Metty5 on Aug 5, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up 0 recs

Sanchez could become a very good starting pitcher or...

He could become the next Brett Tomko. Both guys have incredible stuff, but Tomko never figured it out. Hopefully Sanchez does though….

"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree

by JT12340 on Aug 6, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yes, I have, he’s striking out more than a batter per inning in his first full year starting in the majors. He needs to improve his control a bit, but even if he doesn’t, he is probably a 2 or 3 at worst.

He probably should be shut down soon though, seeing as he’s looking at a significant innings jump and hasn’t looked as sharp recently.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Aug 5, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

The Dallas Green Factor

Maybe all of Generation K would have gotten hurt anyway, maybe not. And I’m convinced that Pulse wasn’t that great in the first place. But at least the Yankees don’t have a guy like Dallas Green, who did everything short of napalming his young pitchers. Hell, even that wouldn’t surprise me. Can’t you totally imagine this moment:

“In my day, pitchers threw 160 pitches every three days and then showered in napalm. You know why? Because pitchers were men back then.”

by aap212 on Aug 4, 2008 11:59 PM EDT 0 recs

Pulsipher

I saw Pulse pitch a few times in AAA and he was the real deal. He had good stuff (probably not as good as Wilson or Izzy) and the bullpen mentality. I, honestly, felt he was going to be the leader of the three. Remember, Pulse was hit with both injuries and severe depression. Within a year of making his MLB debut, he suddenly was literally too afraid to go to the mound.

by Lunkwill Fook on Aug 5, 2008 8:59 AM EDT up 0 recs

Ofcourse...

They are three quality young pitchers that came up at about the same time. This is why you shouldn’t keep more than two quality pitching prospects in your system at the same time, if you do, space them out atleast. Does an organization dare try…four? Fiv…no, we shall not speak of such things.

"I hate the people that love me, and they hate me!"

by Brett Keith on Aug 5, 2008 1:37 AM EDT 0 recs

what i love....

....is that i think you feel profound or prophetic when you write these.

by bleedjaxblue on Aug 5, 2008 1:38 AM EDT 0 recs

+1

I’ve told Braves before, save your ammo for when you have something truly interesting to say and don’t try too hard. Learn to edit yourself and not spew every time a thought comes into your head, because that makes all of them less important and less insightful. But some people just don’t have that governor on the accelerator, I guess.

by Flynn Blake on Aug 5, 2008 8:37 AM EDT up 0 recs

+2

Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball

by Yakker on Aug 5, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

"I make a very interesting point"

Who judges their own arguments? It’s really kind of bizarre. I really think I’ve illuminated someone here.

by bushe on Aug 5, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

LOL

That line cracked me up as well.

by Scott Proctor Fan Club on Aug 5, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

Absolutely

Why? Kennedy. Kennedy is the weak link and has been overhyped. The other two are legit stud pitching prospects. Kennedy is only rated so highly because of the association with the other two. His stuff is too marginal to ever do well at the MLB level. He’s a major league pitcher, Im sure, but nothing anyone should get excited about. Unless you get excited about Paul Byrd, Carlos Silva, etc…

Joba is phenomenal and although I was a doubter, Im sold. He is an Ace level pitcher who appears to be durable (tonight’s shoulder injury aside). Hughes has a ton of talent, but cant seem to overcome a string of injuries going back to A ball. He’s still young and has great stuff so I wouldnt bet against him, but people should realize just how many hurdles pitching prospects have to jump over to emerge as an MLB starter. He was certainly as good a prospect as he was regarded, unlike Kennedy. He still may fail, but if he does it ill just be poor luck/misfortune.

But main point – two pitchers dont qualify as a generation anything, especially when they only have a major league resume of what? 3/4 of a season of succesful starts between them?

by alskor on Aug 5, 2008 6:08 AM EDT 0 recs

Experience

Well, isn’t the point about the Generation K Mythology that it only refers to young unproven pitchers? What does it have to do with the fact they only have 3/4 of season of starts? I mean, hell, Pulse pretty much never got around to a full season in the majors.

I take your point about Kennedy though. I think he’s more the Robert Person of the group (people forget Person came up in the same generation as the big three).

by Lunkwill Fook on Aug 5, 2008 8:58 AM EDT up 0 recs

I meant

the jury is still out on it. Too early to call on Hughes. I wouldnt be shocked if he settled down and became a dependable starter, nor would I be shocked if we never saw him pitch a full season – in which case he would be generation K2.

by alskor on Aug 5, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

Liriano, Slowey, Baker, Perkins, Blackburn

just saying…

Go Pirates!!!

by cool hand Charlie on Aug 5, 2008 7:16 AM EDT 0 recs

Kazmir, Shields, Garza, Price, Davis, Hellickson

...

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Aug 5, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up 0 recs

Are you just saying....

.... that these pitchers will flame out and never amount to the hype? Because that’s what is being discussed.

by Lunkwill Fook on Aug 5, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up 0 recs

I think the thread got hijacked...could be wrong though.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Aug 5, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think there is an attempt to do so.

So many posters think Braves is trying to say they’re “overhyped”. That’s not what he’s saying. He’s talking about injuries and how they could affect these guys’ careers.

by Lunkwill Fook on Aug 5, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

I understood what he was trying to say

It just got off-topic or hijacked, so I went with it.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Aug 5, 2008 9:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

Oh

I thought he was referring to Liriano and Slowey getting injured but I’m really not sure

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Aug 6, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Liriano

and a bunch of Carlos Silva clones?

The poster formerly known as Matt.

by bluemax on Aug 5, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

Baker, Perkins have better stuff than Silva...

I can see how you can compare Slowey and Blackburn, but they haven’t gotten lit up on a consistent basis like Silva yet.

"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree

by JT12340 on Aug 6, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

It's amazing....

how many people completely missed the point of this post. Some seem upset because it’s not their team being mentioned, and others think that the OP is calling these three pitchers generational talents. I think Bravesin07 has a bit of a point here, and I find it to be a slightly amusing comparison. We’ll see where the new K-Trio end up in a few years to see if the comparison continues to fit.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Aug 5, 2008 7:46 AM EDT 0 recs

+1

by Lunkwill Fook on Aug 5, 2008 9:00 AM EDT up 0 recs

Wow

Way to judge the prospects just based on one year. This is the moments like these I wish the 1st Ammendment is not legal in internet

by McLoving on Aug 5, 2008 12:54 PM EDT 0 recs

Oh, and I really really wish there was an ignore list in this site

NUFF SAID. Again, my not so humble opinion

by McLoving on Aug 5, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

hahahahahah

You STILL don’t get the point of this post, do you?

by Lunkwill Fook on Aug 5, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

Seriously, people really need to work on their reading comprehension.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Aug 5, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

Wait a second

I thought Ainsworth, Foppart and Jerome Willaims were the next Generation K

#269

by mrmetaa on Aug 5, 2008 5:54 PM EDT 0 recs

Some People Are Ridiculous

Joba: showed he will be an ace and his injury looks very, very minor. Even if he hits the DL it will prob. be for 15 days and likely as a precaution.
Hughes: 4.46 ERA as a 21 year old in the AL EAST last year. Been set back by injuries yes, but he only had 4 poor starts this year. People made it seem like 20. Not to mention there’s a very good chance he was pitching all that time with a broken rib.
Kennedy: I admit he’s probably a back of the rotation starter. Pitching well in AAA again, so we’ll see.

http://yankeesmtom.blogspot.com/

by hallofamer2000 on Aug 5, 2008 6:24 PM EDT 0 recs

Still missing the point

No one says they aren’t talented. The original Generation K were all talented pitchers. The question is whether injuries might keep them from achieving the greatness that seems destined for them.

by Lunkwill Fook on Aug 5, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yes but

How do we know that these 3 will continue to be injured? Joba’s injury is pretty minor, and there are a lot of young pitchers who had injuries like Hughes’ or Kennedy’s and came back fine

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Aug 6, 2008 8:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Joba to see Dr. Andrews

I think this might be serious.

by Bravesin07 on Aug 5, 2008 6:35 PM EDT 0 recs

Somewhere...

...Kevin Youkilis is finally breathing a sigh of relief.

Karma is a b**, Joba.

by alskor on Aug 5, 2008 10:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

Please

Youk gets what he deserves. He acts like a child when he plays and pouts when he strikes out in a 10-1 Boston lead. I am not a big Joba fan, but Youk’s act is very tired in my opinion.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Aug 5, 2008 10:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

So...

because Youk “acts like a child when he plays and pouts when he strikes out in a 10-1 Boston lead” he should have a guy who throws 100 chuck one at his ear? You ever seen a picture of Tony Conigliaro? Also, when Paul ONeill pulled that crap everyone praised him for it. Typical Yankee double standard. ONeill was far worse than Youk, too.

Doesnt matter though, because no one goes to Dr. Andrews and doesnt need surgery. Suspicious too that the Yanks wont announce the results of the MRI.

My only regret now is that I will have to hear for the next ten years about how good Joba was going to be if he didnt get injuried.

by alskor on Aug 5, 2008 11:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

“Doesnt matter though, because no one goes to Dr. Andrews and doesnt need surgery.”

Have you heard about Marcum visiting Dr. Andrews this season?

“Also, when Paul ONeill pulled that crap everyone praised him for it. Typical Yankee double standard. ONeill was far worse than Youk, too.”

I hate Youk but I also hate the Yankees. There are rules in baseball that when you showboat (see Youk’s tired act) you are going to get the ball high and inside. Joba may be an idiot but Youk does not help his situation. His own team has been known to call him out for his embarassing displays.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Aug 5, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

Manny and Youk got into a fight about it.

They had a whole team meeting about it. It’s an issue for the Red Soxs.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Aug 5, 2008 11:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

+1

And the Manny/Youk incident wasn’t the first time the team called a meeting about Youk’s behavior.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Aug 6, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up 0 recs

Marcum...

He’s been getting lit up like Carlos Silva since he came back. I really think he’s teetering on surgery. He’s obviously pitching hurt. He’s lost a little velocity and his location. Hopefully Toronto handles this situation smartly rather than leading him to blow out his arm.

"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree

by JT12340 on Aug 6, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well, looks like Youk can go on having tantrums for a few years

Joba Chamberlain Shoulder = No Bueno
In the last hour there have been some underground rumblings about Joba Chamberlain, suggesting that he has a torn (or partially torn) rotator cuff. I’ve checked with some reliable sources and nothing is confirmed but if this is true – calling it “bad news” would be an understatement.

http://ultimatebanter.blogspot.com/2008/08/joba-chamberlain-shoulder-no-bueno.html

Calling it now: Generation K2

by alskor on Aug 6, 2008 6:00 PM EDT 0 recs

Said it in the spring and I called it.

by Bravesin07 on Aug 6, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

Huh

what i love….

....is that i think you feel profound or prophetic when you write these.

by bleedjaxblue on Aug 5, 2008 12:38 AM CDT reply reply actions actions 0 recs

Well played.

by mrkupe on Aug 6, 2008 7:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

hahaha

projecting Bravesin07 is so much easier than projecting pitching prospect that it’s not even funny.

you just always have to remember TINSTAAPBP—there is no such thing as a permanent Bravesin07 projection. “moving target” just doesn’t do justice to all that he really is.

anyway, just to say something about baseball, if it really is the labrum, there is a good chance the Yanks never get much out of this trio of prospects. i’d say the biggest difference is that, outside of the east coast media trap, Joba/Hughes/Kennedy didn’t qualify as a truly exceptional prospect trio. of those three, Joba was far and away the most legit prospect, and many people had been projecting his injury for years. Hughes’ talents got exaggerrated by people who loved the stats too much. and same with Kennedy, but to a much greater extent. Hughes was at least genuinely a top prospect—i just think it turns out he projects as a middle-of-the-rotation guy, not an ace. Kennedy never should have been considered more than a peripheral prospect. the Mets trio were all truly elite prospects, while i don’t think the Yanks trio was the best young trio in the minors or bigs at any point (there’s several other teams in contention for that).

all in all, it’ll be interesting to see which side ends up getting more out of their players. Wilson and Pulsipher never gave anything worthwhile (i could see Kennedy and Wilson having fairly similar careers). Izzy was at least a great closer, but, if Hughes can be a solid contributer for a long time, that would have a lot of value as well. until we know more about the extent of the damage with Joba, it’s tough to say how that’ll end up. if it’s a bad labrum tear, i’d say the Mets’ll win this one.

(incidentally can you believe everyone battling between who was better between Hughes and Bailey a few years ago? i guess i’m not sure how i’d answer that one now, either. but it’s definitely not the same question.)

by bleedjaxblue on Aug 6, 2008 8:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

Looks like they will

shut him down for a week to let the swelling and inflammation subside. Then have him toss and see how his arm reacts and how he feels.

I still say he’s done for the season anyway. No reason to risk this. Let it heal. If they rush him back and he actually turns the tendonitis into a tear that would be a gigantic shame. Tendonitis is essentially mini or little tears… and Joba had enough of an issue there that it began to swell and bother him.

by alskor on Aug 6, 2008 11:35 PM EDT 0 recs