Top 32 prospects
1) Matt Wieters (Mauer w/ power)
2) David Price (tho part of me sees a LH Andy Benes)
3) Dexter Fowler (complete package: for some reason, I see Robin Yount when he shifted to CF, but with more range)
4) Colby Rasmus (not worried, somewhere b/w Jim Edmonds and Steve Finley)
5) Jason Heyward (could be a monster)
6) Neftali Feliz (worst case scenario is Joel Zumaya, best case is something like Lincecum)
7) Rick Porcello (polish and power)
8) Cameron Maybin (power potential, but I don't see a 300 hitter)
9) Pedro Alvarez (if he stays at third, Aramis Ramirez with better plate discipline)
10) Chris Tillman (damn you Bavasi)
11) Chris Carter (that's right--his batting average on balls in play was unlucky to start the year; he should be at around his 290-300 usual ba; he's a 270 hitter in the majors, with huge power)
12) Engel Beltre (all about the upside)
13) Trevor Cahill (a Brandon Webb who doesn't kick it up to Cy Young levels)
14) Mike Moustakas (believe in the tools)
15) Travis Snider (all bat; Brian Giles 2.0?)
16) Matt LaPorta (all bat; Richie Sexson 2.0?)
17) Madison Bumgarner (pass)
18) Gordon Beckham (I'm getting Longoria, Tulowitzki vibes)
19) Tim Alderson (pass)
20) Derek Holland (the kool aid tastes great!)
21) Jesus Montero (only 20% chance of staying at catcher, but still looks like a specimen regardless)
22) Jeremy Hellickson (10% of becoming Oswalt, but still a likely #2)
23) Jordan Walden (ugliest guy on the list, but classic power package)
24) Andrew McCutchen (I just don't think he'll put it all together; I see Corey Patterson with a better eye)
25) Frederick Freeman (more kool aid)
26) Brandon Wood (if Rob Deer played 3rd base)
27) Brett Anderson (classic 2/3 starter, just enough oomph to not have to be crafty)
28) Tim Beckham (tool shed, will likely have a long apprenticeship)
29) Logan Morrison (mix between Youkilis and Overbay? or more power?)
30) Nick Weglarz (the performance isn't quite there, but next year he taps the huge power to go with the great plate discipline)
31) Lars Anderson (overrated due to organization and Lancaster, but still an everyday first baseman)
32) Wilson Ramos (my own mancrush koolaid; ballpark and BABIP have artificially skewered his numbers downward, though those numbers are starting to look pretty decent on their own; strong athlete, I think he's an all-star catcher: 280/350/450 line with GG defense, tho it may be for somewhere else)
1 recs |
104 comments
Comments
Interesting list....
The opinions on Chris Carter and Nick Weglarz I find most intriguing, next year will be a huge year for both as they make the AA jump.
My question as a Tribe fan (and I’d love people’s thoughts here), on Weglarz is… I have heard about the raw power potential but with the solid BB/K ratio is he a potential .300 hitter too or are people thinking .260?
"God, I'm from Cleveland. When is it going to be our time?"
by BStal11 on Aug 30, 2008 10:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
my feeling
which is just a feeling, is that he is more of a 280 hitter — according to minor league splits, normalizing his ballpark and his luck produces a .292 hitter. I take that with a grain of salt, but it helps color the current data. His bb/k ratio, like you say, is solid. It was more pronounced last year, but he also showed much more power last year; my guess is that he shows more power next year, but it could come either of two ways: 1) he could build on his plate control from this year and have the power add to it, or 2) the growth in power could come at the expense of his new found plate control. My bet is that he will, like Fowler this year, consolidate his tools next year: he’s developing plate discipline this year, and that skill will stick next year as his natural power is re-asserted.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Response
Weglarz – prediction here is like a .270-.280 hitter with good pop. I think his upside is something like a hybrid of Paul Konerko and Carlos Pena . . .in other words, a pretty nice player, a guy with the potential to play in All Star games.
Haven’t seen any “expert” opinion yet that speaks very well of his chances to stay in the OF. But that bat has the raw potential to play anywhere, so it’s not really a big deal IMO.
by mrkupe on Aug 30, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not an expert as you know but
it looks to me like Weglarz can stay in LF unless he gets even bigger. Weglarz is huge but surprisingly mobile for his size. Given that qualification, he is probably “mediocre” at this time with a ceiling of average ML. His only other position is 1B and that is quite crowed in the Indian organization. Not arguing the pick but I think I would have put Mills ahead of Weglarz.
by sdtribefan on Sep 1, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Response
On the other hand . . .he was drafted as a 1B, not an OF, and he doesn’t exactly project to get smaller as he gets older. I think optimistically you can project him to be a fringe OF defensively, but I’m not real confident beyond that.
Then again, as you noted the organization is pretty crowded at 1B, and assuming everything goes well developmentally then Weglarz as a fringe OF probably will look better than LaPorta out there.
The organization may need answers to a lot of things, but projecting two out of Weglarz/Mills/LaPorta to be solid players doesn’t seem like a horrible stretch even given prospect attrition, so figure they have 1B/DH covered and maybe 1B/LF.
by mrkupe on Sep 1, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting list
Of both upside and performance.
Interesting to see how few 2008 draftees made your list. Talent void, or not enough time to research yet? I know I haven’t caught up myself on these guys, so am wondering what to expect when I do start breaking out the magnifying glass.
BTW, are you still biggest Jordan Walden fan (adult division)?
by siddfynch on Aug 30, 2008 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you know that Jordan Walden was the highest rated high school arm in his class!!!
I’m still pretty big on Walden, and he’s seemed to slip a bit under the radar this year. I have to admit I’ve been a little disappointed in his k rate, and I don’t think he has ace upside right now; he reminds me of a Pete Harnisch type, which is a really nice thing to have.
I have a blind spot on recent draftees, as I tend to evaluate by matching year to year statistical trends for players against their scouting reports in order to project on them. Buster Posey should probably be in my top 30, along with Smoak.
If I were to expand to 50, I’d probably include a couple of guys I’m pretty high on, Brett Lawrie and Zach Collier. But I like to aggressively rank guys that I have strong instincts on. I really feel, for instance, that Wilson Ramos will be a top 20 prospect by the end of 09. I would even put someone like the Yanks’ Kelvin De Leon in my top 75.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Was" is the key word...
He was the highest rated arm until he mysteriously lost 10 MPH off his fastball prior to the draft. He gained it back but it is very alarming.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 30, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Running gag
From last year, this one guy who was SO nuts about Walden would put his fingers in his ears and repeat the bit about Walden coming out over and over again.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lars Anderson?
Lars Anderson, regular 1st baseman? I don’t think so. He’ll be a .300+ hitter, 35+ Hr hitter and knock in over 110 RBI’s annually.
Hes killing AA at the age of 20, and is a big , athletic kid. What’s not to like?
by Vitters4Life on Aug 30, 2008 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The list
is by a guy named “gogotabata…”
by alskor on Aug 30, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
though
to be fair he’s completely left Austin Jackson off.
I see what he’s saying with Lars… its just really, really hard for me to get impressed by a first base prospect because the offensive threshold for them to even be league average is crazy high. This was one of my criticisms of a certain Royals prospect recently.
by alskor on Aug 30, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not a yankee fan
But was apeshit about Tabata back when he was like 16. I like ’em young.
Lars is putting up the numbers you’d hope a first baseman would in AA, but it’s with a .438 BABIP and 41 strikeouts and 21 walks in 140 or so plate appearances. His Lancaster numbers were closer to the floor of what I was expecting from him there, as opposed to the ceiling. I don’t think he’s a future MVP, or regular All-Star. I think he’ll pop up on a few all-star teams, perhaps, and I think you can definitely win a championship with him as yr first baseman and #5 hitter. But I don’t see a future Howard, Thome, F. Thomas, Ortiz or anything like that. I see, at the best, Adrian Gonzalez’s numbers without the defense and without the home park disadvantage. A very nice player, and he has less of a chance to bottom out than Carter. But I like upside, and I think Carter’s got him beat.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carter is too high and Anderson (not Alderson) is too low.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Aug 30, 2008 1:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gordon Beckham doesn't give off Tulowitzki vibes to me
More like Khalil Greene vibes… not that Khalil is a bad player, exactly, but…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 30, 2008 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
If we put Khalil and Tulowitzki in the same ballpark for their careers, how much of a difference we’d see? Tulo is a slightly better player, I think, still.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
F-Mart??
Is going to drop that far?? HIs season hasn’t been terrible and considering he was injured I wouldn’t drop him down that far.
by Pelferized on Aug 30, 2008 1:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ive never been a fan, personally.
The guy has done crap as a professional player other than some BABIP fueled high AVGs. I like his tools a ton, but Im going to need to see one year where he actually produces to start listing him on these sort of lists.
by alskor on Aug 30, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ive just seen a lot of guys
who get taken all the way up as legit stud prospects based entirely on ARL. Especially Hispanic/Carribean players who tend to peak early in their development. Then it just turns out we have six years of data of them being a .275 hitter with 7 HRs – and guess what? That’s exactly what they are. They never end up getting any better.
He’s still a damn good prospect, dont get me wrong, but I wouldnt have him in my top 32 either.
by alskor on Aug 30, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fernando vs Heyward
Personally, I would like to have seen more power out of Fernando at this point but Fernando as a 17 year old hit better than Heyward as an 18 year old in A ball…. and Heyward is your #5. I’m not blind to Heyward’s better speed and defensive skills but it’s hard to get down on Fernando in that light. I mean, the kid’s still 19 and has nearly an .800 OPS in AA. Again, I would like to see the power start developing soon but it’s not like he’s scuffling out there and having his reputation entirely based on a couple at bats in the AFL.
by Lunkwill Fook on Aug 30, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
Looking at skill set, athleticism, speed, and so forth, I see different sorts of trajectories for the two guys. There’s still the slightest chance that F-Mart becomes 85% of Manny Ramirez, but I see him as that kind of player (not necessarily the dreadlocks and lobotomized sweetness, but the sort of player), but he’s really got to start putting up the numbers. Otherwise, I see Raul Ibanez’s career (without the late start) when I look at F-Mart.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's "Type A free agent" Raul Ibanez to you
Although when you think about it, Raul actually stands to have the biggest beef with the system over that. Because, I mean, who wants to give up a first round pick for Raul Ibanez? It’s going to make it much harder for him to get a new contract.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 30, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I don’t think Ibanez is a bad player at all. It just seems like the most likely scenario for F-Mart’s skill set. Of course, Ibanez seems to maximize 110% of his natural talent; if F-Mart does the same, then he’s a much, much better player. I just don’t think he does it.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually the point I was trying to make
was not that Ibanez was awesome (he isn’t) but that the Elias rankings are really, really whacked out.
For starters, they don’t even make a pretense of accounting for defense for outfielders. Considering that Ibanez might actually be the single worst outfielder in all of baseball, that’s kind of a big oversight in his case.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Carter
COMPLETELY AGREE
Im not sure why people are missing the boat on this guy, but he has a plus plus tool that is pretty much guaranteed to translate to the MLB level. That’s something you can bank on. With that kind of power his floor is what? MLB regular? Platoon at the worst? His other tools all impress too. This guy is a pretty exciting prospect who is not at all getting the respect he deserves.
by alskor on Aug 30, 2008 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
defense
i still question where he’ll play. but if the bat is that good, you find a spot for him like a laporta/gamel.
k’s and defense are his biggest weaknesses going into AA next yr. i’ll throw in corey brown who actually too…both need to improve in that area. but the power is nice which A’s really need in the future
by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 30, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am concerned
About the strikeouts as well, but I think he’ll be that kind of slugger.
This year, by my count, he has 151 strikeouts in 580 plate appearances, striking out 26 percent of the time.
Combined A+ and AA, Lars Anderson has 105 strikeouts in 500 plate appearances, striking out 21 percent of the time.
Carter has 39 homers, 31 doubles, 4 triples. Anderson has 18 homers, 32 doubles, 1 triple.
Carter has a .297 BABIP. Anderson has a .384 BABIP.
Carter has put up a 262/360/578 line. Anderson has a combined 315/409/522 line.
Using minor league splits’ luck and ballpark neutralizer, Carter has a 290/385/590 line. Using that same neutralizer, Anderson has a combined 289/387/471 line.
The big question, other than league and park, for me right now ranking them, is how consistent are those BABIPs gonna be. Last year Carter had a 335 BABIP (and 335 and 354 the years before), while Anderson had a 370 BABIP last year.
The ‘luck’ neutralizer shifts Carter’s BABIP this year from 297 to 328, which is in his normal range. That bumps his batting average to .281. Stockton’s park, however, has inflates power slightly but deflates batting average more significantly: neutralizing it (and leaving luck alone) shifts him from 297 to 319.
What I take from this is that luck and home park have doubled-down to suppress Carter’s batting average; he’s not a future batting champion, but he’s not truly a .262 hitter. His track record in 07 (low A) and 06 (rookie ball) suggest the same: .291 and .301 averages, respectively. In 06, he had some awful at bats in A ball, so I’m admittedly cherry picking on that account.
What this info tells me is that Carter has HUGE power, and that his batting average has been unduly tweaked by his home park and his BABIP, the latter of which is an outlier in his track record.
Lars has been a .315 and .294 hitter the last two years, and he gets credit for performing well in AA at the same age as Carter. To my eyes, Anderson is a smidgen better than Carter in terms of strikeouts and batting average, but Carter is leaps and bounds beyond Anderson as a power hitter.
If Anderson’s upside projection is 300 average, 30 homers (which I don’t know if I buy), then Carter’s upside has to be 290 average and 45 homers (which I don’t know if I buy either). I would knock at least 10 points off of both guys’ averages, and 5 to 10 homers off of Anderson.
I think Carter could be a guy who hits between 260-280, could hit 40 homers a year, and draw a bunch of walks and strikeout a lot.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Response
“I think Carter could be a guy who hits between 260-280, could hit 40 homers a year, and draw a bunch of walks and strikeout a lot.”
Carter’s line this year: .262 BA, 39 HR, 73 BB, 152 K
by mrkupe on Aug 30, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the info!
As you can tell in the response you’ve responded to, I haven’t even looked at or thought about his batting average this year.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hold the snark
I got kind of quick on the trigger. I think you’re saying he’s put up those kind of numbers already? If so, then I say yeah, I think what he’s doing in Hi-A right now could be representative of what he’ll do in his best years in the majors.
If, however, you’re pointing out that he’s hitting .262 in hi-A as evidence that he WON’T hit 260-280 in the majors, then my snark stands, as I think I’ve demonstrated that his batting average this year isn’t representative of that particular skill of his.
I’m really curious to see next year if Lars puts up another 370+ BABIP; if so, he just might be that kind of hitter. If not, and he dips down in even the 330 territory, there might be a lot of disappointed Red Sox fans.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Response
Actually, neither. Truth be told, I was just kind of amused that you went to all of that extensive analysis to generate a hypothesis that exactly mirrors what Carter is doing right now.
We will see. Personally I’m a big skeptic of this guy, despite his huge power. There are clearly reasons why this guy is hitting .262 – the fact that he swings and misses an awful lot is a pretty good start. 152 Ks out of a 21 year old in A ball is a ton even with those power numbers. Brandon Wood was a year younger, struck out less, had a higher BA, and hit for even better power than Carter in the Cal League in 2005. Even there were many skeptics who just didn’t think he’d hit for average and make consistent contact at higher levels, and thus far they’re right.
by mrkupe on Aug 30, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose so
But I mostly wanted to challenge the conventional wisdom, based on this year’s numbers alone, that Lars is a future 300 hitter while Carter is a future 230 hitter. I’ve been following Carter closely the last three years, and am impressed by his ability to adjust at each level; this is where I would separate him from Dunn. I think Carter has big time natural power, but has to work to bring the rest of his game up to speed. But he always does. He could hit a ceiling, in AA or AAA or the majors, but I think he’s a slow burn, one level per year type of guy. But I’m impressed by his ability to adjust to his third organization in a year, his slow start, his batting average reducing ballpark, his bad luck, and his getting moved all over the diamond.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carter was never really "in" the D-Backs org
He spent something like 11 days as their contractual property.
I think you’re thinking of Aaron Cunningham, who by the way (for those of you not following his every move eagerly like us A’s fans) is currently OPSing 1.105 in 76 at bats at Sacramento (his total season number is .932)… you could make a pretty good argument for him to make some of these lists too. At what point do you stop looking at “tools” and realize that the guy has never not hit anywhere in his life?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 30, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Thinking about Chris Carter. And I’m talking about the psychological factor for a young guy; he was their contractual property for like two weeks, but it’s still a factor in a guy’s ability to adjust his expectations and modify his self-orientation.
I think Cunningham is somewhere between 50 and 70; he seems like he’ll have three or four years as a productive regular left-fielder, and I’m sure will have a better career than a handful of these guys I listed. But I don’t know how much further to project him beyond that.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the thing about Cunningham
You don’t have to project him. At all. If he plays to what he’s done this season, he’s a true-talent All-Star for most of his career. (I say true-talent because we all know how the real All Star game works, especially in the AL.)
He doesn’t have to progress at all… he just needs to not REgress…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you were ranking strictly on upside, Corey Brown would beat out Carter...
Corey (I use his first name because there are 912879167 players named “Brown” in the A’s system) has virtually unlimited potential— Josh Hamilton with steals? Curtis Granderson with more power? Sizemore with… well, OK, he’s probably not going to be better than Sizemore, but Sizemore is fu**ing incredible…
That said, christ, he’s so far away from that at this point… the Ks are killing him. Carter is certainly the better prospect at this point.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 30, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you all think Chris Carter is Adam Dunn?
I’m not disagreeing necessarily, but that’s what you’re basically describing, right? Lots of strikeouts, lots of walks, lots of home runs, worthless defensively. Very valuable slugger overall.
by aap212 on Aug 30, 2008 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He actually has been looking damn good over at 3B
So not a great defender, even if shifted elsewhere, but far better than Dunn.
by alskor on Aug 30, 2008 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has
F-Mart really lost that much stock?
by METSMETSMETS on Aug 30, 2008 4:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's stayed about the same
In my opinion, he’s stayed about the same. Okay performance relative to age and level, nagging injury troubles, lack of a breakout. That keeps him somewhere in the 30s, I think.
by aap212 on Aug 30, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tommy Hanson
He’s definitely a top 25 player!
by Jay212033 on Aug 30, 2008 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lars Anderson and Chris Carter ?? Are you kidding
You guys have to really really do a better job of analyzing prospects. Carter is a guy who will probably be around 75 in the top 100 prospects puts out in 09. Lars Anderson is a to 10 prospect in ALL OF BASEBALL right now. What he is doing as a 20 year old in AA is what all the scouts are talking about. The hell with his numbers in the California league. They were good but not great. Well, his double-A numbers ARE GREAT especially for a 20 year old. Its much much more than numbers with Lars, he has an insane batting eye that will always lead to high walk totals and with his picture perfect swing a very high batting average. He also has awesome opposite field power which will be perfect for Fenway park. He projects as a .320 30-40 HR 120 RBI type of major league hitter with 100 plus walks per year. Chris Carter will be lucky to make the Majors in my opinion. Big holes and they arent going away.
by justinupton on Aug 30, 2008 7:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lars Anderson...
I believe he is overrated slightly. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a good prospect (probably in the teens, but not 10th or better), but I prefer Logan Morrison over Lars. Wherever you put Lars, you have to put Weglarz and Morrison. They are all producing near, if not identical numbers in the same league (with Morrison hitting in the worst park of the bunch). As for Carter, his value is different. How many minor leaguers are close to surefire 35+ hr material. I believe Carter can hit 35+ hrs every year if given enough at bats and finding a home for himself defensively. Regardless, I don’t believe either player rates as a top 10 player, and I do believe Carter should be rated below Anderson; however, I also believe you are either giving homer numbers to Lars or completely overrating him with the .320, 30-40 hr 120 RBI 100+ walks. I see him as a 20-30 homer player, .290+ avg with some years in the .300’s but never above .315 unless he’s got less than 300 at bats or has a outlier career type of year. I think Lars will be a solid player, but he doesn’t scream superstar like your numbers suggest.
"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree
by JT12340 on Aug 30, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Welcome to minorleagueball. com, Mrs. Anderson. I heard Lars will also put up a couple of 40-40 seasons and pitch relief.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Sep 2, 2008 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Carter is the most overrated prospect by A’s fans everywhere.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 31, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about javier herrera?
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Sep 2, 2008 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
Everybody knows he stinks.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Sep 2, 2008 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just checking ;)
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Sep 2, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that 5% difference in K rate
clearly represents a staggering separation between their respective abilities to defend the plate.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rookie rankings a bit odd
Matusz/Posey not listed and G. Beckham going that high from just a sampling of A ball? I think that you have to rank rookies more on their college performances than what they are doing right now at the pro level. I don’t know if you did up Beckham from how good he has looked at Kannapolis, but even if you were ranking them on what they’ve done so far, Posey looks good; Wieters has a better bat than Buster but Posey has a glove and can hit for average.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
by Baltimo on Aug 30, 2008 8:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Recent draftees
Are an admitted blind spot for me. If I were to re-rank them right this second, I’d probably put Posey top 20. I have trouble getting a read on Matusz. I bit on Detwiler this time last year, and that experience has probably got me a little over gun-shy.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Solid list nonetheless
But if you are going to include G. Beckham at all I’d drop him down and put Posey at least near the bottom. Trying to be as unbiased at possible, however, I’d have Matusz low in the top 32 but slightly above Posey. Matusz has four pitches at his disposal, multiple which are plus, and he should move up very quickly after spending a good amount of time in college. The problem with him is that he seems to be a guy that should get to #2 and stay there, 3 worst case scenario, but doesn’t have a very high likelihood of coming out to be an ace. If I were to make a list I might include Posey, but if I were to I’d have Matusz above him and leave G. Beckham off all together.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
by Baltimo on Aug 30, 2008 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm willing
To say that that’s probably a more defensible stacking of guys than I have right now. Part of it is watching Beckham on tv and getting a good sense of him. I have the first pick in a draft this offseason where we select from 08 draftees and international signees, and right now I’m alternating b/w G. Beckham and Posey, though part of it is that I have a greater need at catcher. So I should have probably included Posey, he probably just slipped my mind . . .
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lars
I like Morrison and Weglarz, but please tell me what their DOUBLE-A numbers are at the moment ?? They dont have any, which is where the men are seperated from the boys. Mr Anderson has played 40 games now in DOUBLE-A and his numbers are among the best in the Eastern league if he had enough at bats to qualify. Morrison and Weglarz are not on the same level as Anderson until they prove it at DOUBLE-A.
by justinupton on Aug 30, 2008 8:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I might be a Lars skeptic
But the strikeouts and BABIP make me feel that he might not keep up those numbers over a full season. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he’s a good prospect. I think he’s one of the 32 best prospects in the game, and I like him a lot more than someone like Gamel, for instance, or Triunfel or Fernando Martinez or Ben Revere or Beau Mills. I even like him more than Carlos Santana, who I like a lot. If Lars puts up similar BA and OBP numbers next year (that is, he shows that he’s not the beneficiary of awfully friendly BABIP rates) and he shows more power, then I’d shoot him way up the rankings, at least top 15. He just hasn’t put up a stat line yet that I haven’t had some sort of reservation about. I’m totally willing to admit I could be blind to his future MVP-ness.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kershaw
just out curiosity, where would kershaw be if eligible?
by npurcell on Aug 30, 2008 8:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
kershaw
In my amateur opinion, either 1 or 2.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lars
Lars Anderson’s ranking below Morrison and Weglarz kills the legitimacy of the list.
Lars currently has a .968 OPS in AA at 20 years-old. Unreal.
Weglarz has vastly inferior numbers at a lower level and Morrison’s track record is atrocious.
Lars hits for an exceptional average, has impressive power for a kid two years removed from high school, has great athleticism for someone 6-4, fields well, has incredible plate discipline, has an advanced approach at the plate, has power to all fields, and is profoundly mature.
There is no reason for anybody to not regard Lars as a top 15 prospect in baseball.
by N. Frederick Cody on Aug 30, 2008 11:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lars also does it in a hitting friendly park
by demondeaconsbaseball on Aug 30, 2008 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One reason
Again, I like Lars, but another reason for me to hold back putting him in top 10 or 15 territory.
Cumulative road numbers: .282/.373/.486
Cumulative home numbers: .349/.444/.560
Two different hitters.
To be fair, Carter has big time home/road splits as well. But, also, I fully realize I’m ‘overrating’ Carter compared to conventional wisdom, and am not demanding that other people rank him similarly. I’m just taking a mini stand on the fella.
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
meant to be
a response to N. Frederick Cody Jackson Harley IV
by gogotabata on Aug 30, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Portland?
He got moved up from Lancaster a long time ago, and his numbers improved. I think that is what people are ignoring. The story at the beginning of the year was “not hitting well enough for Lancaster” but now its become “went to Portland and jumped it up two notches.”
by alskor on Aug 31, 2008 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny
Because The Baseball Cube says he’s had 26 PA at AA Portland.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/Lars-Anderson.shtml
And he’s hitting a whopping .192/.276/.231.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Aug 31, 2008 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Response
Um . . .Lars Anderson has 131 ABs for Portland going into tonight.
And he’s hitting .321/.434/.534 there.
by mrkupe on Aug 31, 2008 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cube doesn't update real regularly
If you’re just looking for up-to-date basic stats on a guy’s current season, milb.com is the place to get them.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peachy
Well at least I only look like kind of an ass…
I’d still complain a little about small sample size, and I still think you’re overrating him, but I’m one of those picky guys who likes to see a mountain of evidence before I go judging a player.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Aug 31, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball Reference upates nightly as well
BCB's "very own marginally deserving all-star!"
by battlekow on Aug 31, 2008 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh.
I don’t deny that Lars Anderson is an interesting prospect, but your argument seems a little simplistic to me. He and Weglarz are the same age and spent the large majority of this year at the same level. Other people can discuss the differing park and league effects – I’m relatively uninterested, though I’m sure they have a point. Looking at their stats, Anderson showed slightly better power than Weglarz – his ISOP was .196 while Weglarz’s was .164. Though both have excellent eyes, Weglarz showed a better one; Anderson struck out a little more (K/PA of 18.2% while Weglarz had a 17.4), and walked significantly less (Anderson walked 13.1 % of his PA, while Weglarz walked 16.1).
The reason Anderson’s OPS was so much higher than Weglarz’s was because of batting average; Anderson had an excellent .317 BA while Weglarz had a more mediocre .276. In this case, Anderson’s higher batting average is almost entirely a function of a significantly higher BABIP. In A+, Anderson had an incredibly high BABIP of .367 while Weglarz’s was a more reasonable .325. If you discount BABIP, then their OPS would be very similar.
This isn’t to say that Anderson won’t become a significantly better hitter than Weglarz, but at the moment, they seem to be roughly comparable players.
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Aug 31, 2008 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Using Minor League Splits' luck and park corrections (A+ numbers only)
Anderson: .297/.391/.464 (.349 BABIP)
Weglarz: .295/.416/.465 (.350 BABIP)
BCB's "very own marginally deserving all-star!"
by battlekow on Aug 31, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Had I had access to that
I would have saved a lot of time. Thank you!
BTW, where did you get those numbers?
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Aug 31, 2008 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BCB's "very own marginally deserving all-star!"
by battlekow on Sep 1, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
131 AB's
is a small sample size, no?
I think saying he moved up and is doing better based on just 131 AB’s is kind of foolish.
What if he moved up and tanked? I’d bet the argument would be, “well, it’s just 131 AB’s.”
by TCapone30 on Aug 31, 2008 8:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not that small
Almost half as many at bats as he had in Lancaster, which is what the criticism was based on. So I dont see how you could criticize him on the one hand for not raking enough in Lancaster(where his line is very good, but not bugs bunny good – which apparently is a knock against him) and then knock his bugs bunny performance in Portland as SSS.
But then again it seems like lots of people have been looking for a reason to knock Lars. While we can argue about his ceiling, he is the best first base prospect in baseball.
by alskor on Aug 31, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bugs Bunny
His Bugs Bunny numbers in 131 at bats are exclusively his home park numbers and his numbers against righties.
Home: 359/481/547 (really impressive)
Away: 284/388/522 (pretty darn impressive)
Vs RH: 363/468/604 (jaw dropping)
Vs LH: 225/354/375 (troubling)
So, his performance in AA has been impressive, but I’m not willing to push him up into top 20 territory just yet.
Is he going to maintain a .438 BABIP in AA? How about the spike in his strikeouts? Is he going to have a big platoon split? Or is that platoon split a fluke (he had a reverse split in Lancaster)? Are his home and road numbers going to remain distinctly different ?
He had an 1002 OPS at home in Lancaster, and an 830 OPS on the road.
At minor league splits, when you normalize his ‘luck’ and put his BABIP at a healthy .358, here are his AA numbers: 262/370/480.
I just don’t see the slam dunk stallion aspect yet.
by gogotabata on Aug 31, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I originally said
I didnt have a problem with where you have him, though I would have him higher,
I think the stud/stallion aspect is where his performance so far meets the scouting. He’s big athletic guy who looks like he’s going to hit for some impressive power. His swing looks like it too.
Not saying that’s right or wrong, but I think that is the reason you typically see him getting ranked higher.
by alskor on Aug 31, 2008 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lars
Some of the criticisms with Lars are valid, but his ranking below Weglarz and Morrison is preposterous. You’ve got to be kidding me…
No need to ask me to elaborate; just look at my previous post.
by N. Frederick Cody on Aug 31, 2008 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You're right
I actually am kidding you. This has been an elaborate joke on my part to get your Lars underoos into a tangle. I actually think Lars Anderson is the best prospect in the game, mostly because of those 131 home-heavy, platoon split at bats at AA. Unprecedented.
by gogotabata on Aug 31, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're hilarious
Right. Okay, I see, a .968 OPS for a 20 year-old in AA should be discredited, because he hits better at home.
Are you serious? Hahaha. You’re penalizing a guy, because he hits better at home?!?!? The majority of athletes perform better at home. I’m not just limiting this to baseball players, but most athletes do better at home.
Anyway, home/road splits are irrelevant. A baseball game is a baseball game is a baseball game. A .968 OPS is what it is. Who cares how that OPS is produced?
.568 OPS at home + 1.368 OPS at road (assume same # of ABs) = .968 OPS at home + .968 OPS at road (assume same # of ABs)
And, his inferior road stats equate to a meager .910 OPS.
Weglarz and Morrison don’t have a single element of their game that’s superior to that of Lars.
Lastly, your Chris Carter ranking destroys any iota of credibility that you previously had.
Eh, one last thing. Your comps are retarded.
by N. Frederick Cody on Aug 31, 2008 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Um, home/road splits are definitely relevant if the home park skews majorly one way or the other
And all the smarmy insults in the world don’t make your arguments any stronger, so try to just argue the points.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 31, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was no intent to insult gogotabata...
and if it came across that way, then I apologize.
I did argue the points! The entire post was about OPS and the fact that there is no facet of both Weglarz’s and Morrison’s game that is superior to that of Lars.
BTW, once again, home/road splits are irrelevant. Lars plays in Hadlock field, which is neither a particularly strong hitter’s park in the EL, nor is it a particularly strong fielder’s park.
His drastic increase in OPS at home is clearly a direct result of Lars feeling more comfortable playing at home. There is no other valid explanation, so everybody needs to stop analyzing every minor detail.
Fine, I’m gonna make you and gogotabata happy, and I’m just going to completely eliminate Lars’ home stats.
Here’s Lars’ new line: 284/388/522. That’s the line for a 20 year-old in AA. Still, a vastly superior prospect to both Weglarz and Morrison.
by N. Frederick Cody on Aug 31, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In 67 ABs
I don’t really have an opinion on Lars Anderson and company, but I think you might be getting a bit too excited about 67 ABs even in AA. Especially considering to get that OPS, he needed a BABIP of .400 (including both home and away, that goes up, somehow, to .435). The reason he needed such a high BABIP is clear – in those 133 ABs, he struck out 43 times. This isn’t of that much concern considering he also walked 29 times and showed solid power, and was still 20 years old in AA, but he isn’t exactly a blow-away prospect just yet.
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Aug 31, 2008 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Rangers' homer it's nice to see three future Rangers in the top 20
Though I have to say you’re a good bit more bullish on Engel Beltre than I am. I heart the kid’s super toolsiness, but he’s more of a back end of the top hundred guy to me right now. I think he’s due for a big time breakout next year with a full season in the Cal league but until it happens it’s still just promise.
I’d have Andrus, Smoak, Mad Max above him in my rankings. He’s in the second tier with guys like Main and Beavan for me.
Neftali and Dutch are the real deal, though.
Nice list, btw.
Thanks for sharing.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 31, 2008 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lars Anderson
You guys that think Weglarz, Morrison or Carter are on the same level, you may want to give up evaluating prospects. Baseball America will show you the difference soon enough between them as it is not even close …. Anyone at Baseball America will agree Lars Anderson is one of the top prospects in the game right now … Morrison, Weglarz and Carter are top 50 material, maybe top 75. The moron arguing about Anderson’s AA numbers being home heavy is just retarded … Your argument is beyond weak … I think Matt Wieters is the ONLY prospect that is clearly above Anderson at the moment
by justinupton on Aug 31, 2008 9:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is this account a sock puppet of N. Frederick Hoover Livingston Cody Throatwobbler-Mangrove VII?
Not only are both of them making the same irritating arguments (perhaps “assertions” would be a better characterization, since there’s no real interaction going on here) about Lars Anderson, both of them seem to be unable to grasp the concept of the “reply” button.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Aug 31, 2008 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
It’s so funny that the only faintly valid criticism on Lars is that he hits better where he feels more comfortable. Comical.
Oh, and PaulThomas, I’m new to this site. I’m no clone.
The delusional posting has got to cease (not you, but these misguided Wegmorricarter fanatics)
I echo justinupton’s sentiments. It’s gonna be funny to see the disparity between Lars and Weglarz, and Co. in the BA 2009 top prospect list.
This argument should have never taken place.
by N. Frederick Cody on Sep 1, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you're quite following what others are saying
People aren’t arguing that Weglarz is better than Anderson – just that the differences aren’t that pronounced, and certainly not in their production of last year.
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Sep 1, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha
But, still, the home/road splits argument is the most preposterous thing I have ever heard. Oh, Lars hits better at home; therefore he should be penalized. Haha
by N. Frederick Cody on Sep 1, 2008 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coors Field
I’m sure Dante Bichette hit better at home for the Rockie than on the road because of home cookin’ and the vaunted Denver school system!
The home/road argument is: some players’ home parks are hitter friendly, some are pitching friendly. This can skew perceptions of value and exaggerate or depress a player’s actual abilities.
A fairly controversial and perhaps preposterous supposition, admittedly.
by gogotabata on Sep 1, 2008 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Portland...
is neither a hitter’s park, nor a pitcher’s park.
Jesus Christ, you are clueless. There are absolutely no parallels between Coors Field and Hadlock Field.
Ryan Braun and Chipper Jones have higher OPS’s at home. Therefore, what they have done this season should be ignored. Any level of production must be thrown out the window, if a player performs better at home. Obviously.
God! Lars is such a travesty for hitting better at his home ballpark. What a joke.
I wish that Lars were as good as Chris Carter. I love 21 year-olds who can’t even .260 in the Cal League.
by N. Frederick Cody on Sep 5, 2008 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Road rage
Ok, I don’t have the same schoolgirl crush on Lars Anderson that you do. I hope you’ll be able to make it through the rest of your day without hyperventilating anymore.
by gogotabata on Sep 7, 2008 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Cough*
Cahill, Price, Rasmus, Porcello, etc…
Cough
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Aug 31, 2008 9:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Price is #2
Rasmus is #4, Porcello is #7, and Cahill is #13. Do you strongly disagree with the placement of one of them? (I think that Rasmus and Porcello are too high, personally, but I’m not very appalled by it). I don’t think I understand what you’re saying
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Sep 1, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Response
Well . . .how low would you put Rasmus and Porcello then? Unless you think that both are like well out of the top 50-60 or so prospects, the difference between what you project and what this list projects is basically nil.
by mrkupe on Sep 1, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I was trying to understand what hero66 meant by saying those 4 names – at first I thought maybe he thought they weren’t on the list, when all of them are. Then I had no idea.
Personally, I’d probably put Rasmus closer to the bottom of the top 10, and Porcello in the low 10s, but that’s just an instinctive guess. I don’t strongly disagree with his rankings which is why I didn’t complain about them.
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Sep 1, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I was responding to the Upton guy who said the only prospect currently ahead of Anderson is Weiters, which is retarded.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Sep 1, 2008 8:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is "reply" somehow not large enough for people's eyes to notice it or something?
Crimony.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohhhhh
I’m sorry – I didn’t understand that. My apologies
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Sep 2, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I did reply to his post specifically.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Sep 2, 2008 1:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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