Oakland's Line-up

by Boxkutter on Aug 25, 2008 10:45 AM EDT Comment 20 comments

I just finally got around to looking at the box scores from last night's games, and checking the Oakland-Seattle one got me wondering... statistically speaking, is Oakland's line-up this worst of the modern era? Or at least since the mound was lowered in the early 70s?

At the end of the game, not a single starter was hitting over 250 (Three under the Mendoza Line). Only two had OBP over 315. I mean, if the best hitter in your line-up is Jack "Quad A" Cust, your team is having issues. Are they throwing games now, seeing how quickly they can catch up to Seattle and Washington in the race for Strasburg?

I know they are playing a lot of kids so they know what they have in their system, but why does it seem so many of their touted prospects come up lately and are average or below while so many other teams have kids that come up and hit the lights out (Jay Bruce, Ryan Howard, Dustin Pedroia, Jacoby Ellsbury, Chris Davis, Dan Murphy, etc). So many A's players they bring up are below replacement level right now it seems. Dan Johnson wasn't very good, Daric Barton is a no glove, no power 1B (he won't last), Carlos Gonzalez strikes out too much and only has one decent stat (doubles which won't cut it), Crosby couldn't hit for shit, Charles Thomas was a decent LF until Atlanta traded him to Oakland, Emil Brown was usually an 800 OPS guy until coming to Oakland, Sweeney is a no power/no speed OF with a decent BA and OBP.... but is nothing special.

What's in the water in Oakland?

0 recs | Comment 20 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Emil Brown

That Emil Brown( .694 OPS) is starting for Oakland while Travis Buck toils in AAA is a joke.

Go Pirates!!!

by cool hand Charlie on Aug 25, 2008 11:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

you know Buck hit

.160 in the bigs this year right and still can’t get his OPS in the PCL over 800.

It isn’t like hes earned the at-bats

by nms on Aug 25, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Buck's

also been battling several injuries all year, and is currently dealing with the side effects of an inner ear infection. Brown, even with his .694 OPS, has been one of the better run producers for the team all year. Their offense is pretty pathetic, so why not play one of the few guys who has produced a decent amount of runs this year.

by JPShark on Aug 25, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cust

I agree that Oakland’s lineup is aweful, but I have do disagree about Cust.

Yes, he IS an aweful defender, but calling him quad A is WAY too harsh. Of all OF’s with 350 PA’s Cust ranks 33rd in OPS. I won’t bother listing all the All Stars he is posting better numbers than.

by TCapone30 on Aug 25, 2008 11:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cust = Dunn

I’ve made my feelings known on Dunn, and Cust is basically the same player. Some people value that type of player, but I am not one of them. He walks and hits HRs, but I think everything he brings to the table only equals everything he takes off the table (low BA, horrible defense, too many strikeouts… but at least Oakland can hide him at DH). So I will stand by my original statement…. “if the best hitter in your line-up is Jack "Quad A” Cust, your team is having issues." (and by the way, the Quad A comment had more to do with his history than his future).

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Aug 25, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Daric Barton is a no glove..."

Tell that to Ray Fosse. He says Barton is going to win a Gold Glove someday. And from what I’ve seen, he isn’t too far off there.

by StickRat on Aug 25, 2008 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And the defensive stats back this up

Barton has been extremely good defensively this year. He’s exceeded expectations there by as much as he’s failed to meet expectations offensively.

Unfortunately, offense is more important than defense for a first baseman… so overall he’s still been a big disappointment.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Aug 25, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well a basic answer to the question is

usually when all these guys come up (pedroia, ellsbury, bruce, davis) they actually have decent hitters behind them so they actually get good pitches. Also, Oakland’s park is the worst hitter’s park in the league.

by samthefan on Aug 25, 2008 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A's hitters

they still love ellis/crosby for whatever reason. but ellis is gone after this season/crosby after 09

it remains to be seen if weeks/pennington/petit/cardenas/sellers/horton etc are viable replaccements over that time..patterson has been getting chances at 2b since ellis has been injured

knowing chavez has been out for chunks of 07/08, theyve done nothing to improve their 3b than hannahan, giving him 400ab’s in a season is too much. maybe jeff baisley in AAA might be a sept callup, but he’s 25 and not sure if he projects more than solid/avg type player. that actually is an upgrade over hannahan. i’d expect they find a 3b this offseason, maybe craig, walker, sign mcpherson, etc

i have no problem with suzuki/sweeney/gonzalez etc who have had solid seasons…the huge disappointments have been buck/barton. basically they put hope in both players, opening full time spots for both which goes in part to dfa’ing bradley and trading swisher moves.

by Asfan4ever723 on Aug 25, 2008 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i disagree

“the huge disappointments have been buck/barton. basically they put hope in both players, opening full time spots for both”

Buck showed he could play last year. He had shin splits to start the year which hindered him over 100 AB’s until he finally hit the DL. He came back and outperformed Carlos Gonzalez over the games they played together(3 HR to C-Gon’s 0) and was STILL sent to AAA ever since(hitting well btw).

Barton on the other hand has been a complete waste at 1B and continues to get playing time even though at his age some AA/AAA time would probably help get his confidence back.

After what Buck did over 300 AB’s last year and what Emil Brown is doing this year leads me to 100% disagree that the A’s gave him every chance to succeed. Barton has gotten every chance. Buck? jerked around.

Go Pirates!!!

by cool hand Charlie on Aug 25, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Buck hasn't played in the MINORS, since July 25th, because of injury, and hasn't played

a complete month all year. If he stayed healthy he would be back in Oakland already.

by theblackpearl on Aug 25, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

interesting

to answer part of your question: Oakland was so solid for so long that they didn’t pick hi enough to draft some of those guys that breeze through the minors like Upton and Bruce. Part of it seems to be from their penny pinching ways in the draft (until the past 2 years). Also, could this be a sign that Beane was a one trick pony? He had his whole moneyball thing going that revolutionized the game for a time, but now that other GMs picked up on that is he smart enough to come up with the next big thing? so far, looks no

by ScottAZ on Aug 25, 2008 2:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

As far

as Barton and Gonzalez goes, take a lool at their age. Barton just turned 23, and Gonzalez doesn’t turn 23 until well after the season is over. Gonzalez has been in a recent slump, but up until about 2 weeks ago he was holding his own pretty damn well considering the lineup behind him and his young age. Most guys his age are just getting their first taste of High A, or maybe AA action. He’s in the big leagues. Yes, he strikes out too much and its been well known that the A’s would like him to work on his plate discipline, but the tools are there. He’s a plus defender, and the fact that he hits so many doubles isn’t a bad thing at all. With the way the ball jumps off of his bat, and after he starts to bulk up, mature, and get experience those doubles turn into HR’s. Lets also keep in mind, he’s not a home-grown A’s players. He’s a product of the DBacks and is in his first season in the A’s organization. He will be a good big league ballplayer, and probably as soon as next year at 23 years old. Barton has been a dissapointment, but again look at his age and minor league track record where he played very young at each level. Give the guy a year or two before you write him off.

by JPShark on Aug 25, 2008 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Doubles equal HRs....

I still don’t buy that argument. Unless he is hitting balls that bounce off the wall, or near it. most doubles end up being line drives by the 1B or 3B. I don’t see how balls that land 20 feet behind a corner infielder end up going over the wall with more power. I want to see some statistical data before believing that doubles turn into homers with more strength.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Aug 25, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ellsbury

hasn’t even come close to coming in and “hitting the lights out”. He’s sporting a .688 OPS this season, and is 2 years older then both Gonzalez and Barton. Yes, he had a fantastic september last year, but so did Barton. Your basically taking a handful of prospects that have come in and performed well, and only mentioned the A’s prospects who have come in and not done so hot. Their not alone. I agree with you that the A’s have had problems developing hitters the last several years, but its a little too early to consider the latest crop a failure.

by JPShark on Aug 25, 2008 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

As I read

the post again I see more things that I disagree with. First off, as somebody mentioned, Oakland is one of the toughest parks to hit in. That alone definitely has an effect on hitters. Emil Brown was nowhere near an .800 OPS last season and that was in KC. Charles Thomas?? Come on. As far as Ryan Sweeney goes, he too is very young at just barely 23 years old. No speed?? Not the case as he has above average speed. He has come in at his rookie season and sat around .300 all year, and thats with inconsistent playing time due to injuries. He’s never going to hit 30 HR’s, but the power will develop some with experience and age. Crosby has been a joke, I couldn’t agree with you more on that. But I was never really that impressed with Crosby when he was in the minors. He was just overhyped IMO.

by JPShark on Aug 25, 2008 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A's problem has been injuries. They just set the record for # of DL stints this year, breaking the record... which was set by the A's last year.

The A’s came in to the season with their hopes on Barton and Buck. Buck had a mydrid of injuries: Shin Splints > Concussion > Inner Ear Infection. I think if/when Buck recovers, they will send him to Winter League and he will be back next year.

Barton has been pathetic at the plate though. He is looking more and more like Dan Johnson, but minus the occasional power and fewer ground balls to 2nd. He is someone who also needs to be sent to Extended Spring Training or the Instructional Complex during the off season, then sent to Winter League.

Ryan Sweeney has done about what we could expect him to do. Long term, he is a good 4th Outfielder behind a hopefully rejuvinated Travis Buck, Carlos Gonzalez and Aaron Cunningham (who we should see in September).

Carlos Gonzalez has improved by leaps and bounds defensivly, as has, believe it or not, Daric Barton, who looked in the begining of the year to be a brick wall (immovable and with balls bouncing off him), but now has turned into a pretty good defensive 1B somehow. But Patrol Craft still needs to work on his plate disicpline to be an effective hitter.

Gallagher came over from the Cubs and in the Cubby tradition, got an arm injury (while Harden stayed healthy-who knew!). On the flip side though, Josh Donaldson is tearing up the California League since the trade.

Most of the A’s better prospects are still in the mid minors. So the question will be, when talking A’s prospects and their future, are what the new A’s core will do, and perhaps more importantly, if they can stick at their positions.

The A’s do not have that many stalwart outstanding elite hitting prospects. But they do have guys who, if they do manage to stick at the position they are currently being thrown at, could be above average hitters for their position, which adds up. But there are a LOT of question marks.

Can Chris Carter stick at 3B?
Can Adrian Cardenas stick at SS?
Will Jemile Weeks come back healthy and make it at 2B?
Will any of the A’s new SS picks work out if Cardenas does not, or moves to 3B? (Coleman, Leyja, Christian).

The A’s also have some interesting prospects in the low minors; SS Nino Leyja and OF Rashun Dixon especially.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Aug 25, 2008 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Barton

As you can see by his BABIP, Barton has been one of the most unlucky hitters in baseball this year. He’ll be just fine.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Aug 26, 2008 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

BABIP for hitters is not primarily luck

Dan Johnson had a sucky BABIP every year when he was in Oakland. It wasn’t luck. He hit tons of slow grounders to the right side and was slow as molasses on top of that.

Barton’s probably been unlucky a bit this year but he hasn’t hit well at all.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Aug 26, 2008 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

I’ve watched Barton closely this year, and he’s been hitting line drives all over the place – they’ve just happened to be right at fielders. He’s hit quite a few balls to the warning track, and he’s been robbed in Oakland of a couple homers. He’ll be just fine. I’m definitely not going to give up on a guy with his potential after 1 year, that’s stupid.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Aug 27, 2008 3:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs