Texas Rangers Top 20 Prospects in Review
by John Sickels on Aug 19, 2008 10:00 AM EDT
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PrintThis list was originally posted November 24, 2007. THIS IS NOT A NEW LIST!! THIS IS A REVIEW OF THE OLD LIST!!!!!!!
1) Taylor Teagarden, C, Grade B+
A disappointing .217/.331/.378 between Double-A and Triple-A this year, with excessive strikeouts the main problem. I have liked him a lot and still do, but I exepcted more.
2) Eric Hurley, RHP, Grade B+
4.83 ERA with 74/30 K/BB in 82 innings between Double-A and Triple-A, 5.47 with 13/9 K/BB and five homers allowed in 25 major league innings. The fly ball tendency looks like it is going to be an issue.
3) Elvis Andrus, SS, Grade B+
.285/.340/.359 with 47 steals for Double-A Frisco. Just 19 years old and in Double-A, so at this point the lack of power doesn't worry me too much given his other skills.
4) Chris Davis, 3B, Grade B+
.333/.386/.643 between Double-A and Triple-A, .270/.310/.546 in the majors. Incredible power, so far the strikeouts have not hurt him.
5) Matt Harrison, LHP, Grade B+
3.43 ERA withi 55/28 K/BB in 84 innings between Double-A and Triple-A. 7.07 ERA with 7/19 K/BB in 36 innings in the majors. Capable of better, but has to make the adjustments and get the components back in line.
6) Michael Main, RHP, Grade B
2.61 ERA with 43/17 K/BB in 41 innings between AZL Rangers and Clinton in the Midwest League. Looks good right now.
7) John Mayberry Jr, OF, Grade B
.270/.322/.478 for Triple-A Oklahoma. Has all the tools, shows flashes of skills but still pretty raw.
8) Kasey Kiker, LHP, Grade B
4.30 ERA with 90/29 K/BB in 103 innings for Class A Bakersfield, 110 hits allowed. Not bad for a 20 year old in the Cal League.
9) Max Ramirez, C, Grade B
.354/.450/.646 for Double-A Frisco, .233/.313/.395 in 13 games for the Rangers. Looks like a terrific hitter, main problem is finding a defensive home.
10) German Duran, 2B, Grade B
.225/.279/.363 for the Rangers. Capable of better, but has just 20 games of Triple-A under his belt.
11) Omar Poveda, RHP, Grade B
5.05 ERA with 77/29 K/BB in 73 innings, 69 hits allowed for Bakersfield. Component ratios are better than the ERA; he's still a good prospect.
12) Neftali Feliz, RHP, Grade B-
Massive breakthrough season, 2.52 ERA with 106/28 K/BB in 82 innings in the Midwest League, then 3.56 ERA and 35/17 K/BB in 30 innings after skipping High-A and moving to Double-A. One of the best pitching prospects in baseball.
13) Blake Beavan, RHP, Grade B-
2.56 ERA with 61/17 K/BB in 106 innings for Clinton, 93 hits allowed. Good command, but strikeout rate is low and ground ball tendency may not be quite strong enough to overcome that. Still very young.
14) Brandon Boggs, OF, Grade C+
.237/.335/.397 for the Rangers. He will do better with more experience and should/could have long career as a fourth outfielder.
15) Johnny Whittleman, 3B, Grade C+
.265/.379/.403 for Bakersfield. Has drawn 81 walks, but power production has been disappointing.
16) Julio Borbon, OF, Grade C+
.307/.347/.405 with 46 steals combined between Bakersfield and Frisco. Lacks plate discipline, but has doubles power to go with the speed.
17) Tommy Hunter, RHP, Grade C+
3.56 ERA with 95/29 K/BB in 144 innings, 151 hits combined between A-ball, Double-A, and Triple-A. Has been crushed in three major league starts, but given meteoric rise this is not unexpected.
18) Armando Galarraga, RHP, Grade C+
Traded to Tigers, 11-4, 3.11 with a 92/44 K/BB in 133 innings, 109 hits allowed in the majors, much better than expected.
19) Neil Ramirez, RHP, Grade C+
3.38 ERA with 35/18 K/BB in 29 innings for Spokane in the Northwest League. Good K/IP, needs better command.
20) Brennan Garr, RHP, Grade C+
3.40 ERA with 52/24 K/BB in 42 innings for Frisco. Command needs sharpening, but still on line to provide bullpen help eventually.
The development of Feliz is terrific, of course. I'm very worried now about Hurley's gopher problems. He might need another organization. Mayberry could languish but still has a great tool set and shows flashes of the skills needed to make it work. There have been some guys jumped ahead of schedule to the majors, but overall I think the Rangers have a bright future.
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Where was Engel?
Why was Engel Beltre not on your list John? I have a hard time to believe he wasn’t ranked higher then Garr, or Neil Ramirez.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 19, 2008 10:44 AM EDT reply actions
beltre
Oh, I should have put him on there. He was a Grade C in the book, a grade for which I took much flak….but I thought people were really overreacting to Boston and Texas propaganda about how great he would be. He looked like another raw tools guy with strike zone problems to me.
by John Sickels on Aug 19, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry
But have you changed your mind or do you still think that people are overrating him?
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Aug 19, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
dunno
I’d move him to C+ right now. Need to see more scouting reports and final numbers before higher than that, could be a B-. I think the future superstar talk is still overblown.
by John Sickels on Aug 19, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
who's a better prospect...
Beltre or Villalona?
to me, abortion is not a religious issue, it's a common sense one...
Villalona
Higher offensive upside, younger.
Pretty clearly the first time he has ever looked at a web site. "And there are readers' comments at the bottom! And advertisements for products! And best of all, I won a free iPod!"
-Ken Tremendous on Mike Downey.
offensive upside? More than Beltre? How?
And he’s just 9 months younger than Beltre…really not that big of a difference.
to me, abortion is not a religious issue, it's a common sense one...
At this point, more projectable power
Some of it due to physical build, some to natural swing.
Pretty clearly the first time he has ever looked at a web site. "And there are readers' comments at the bottom! And advertisements for products! And best of all, I won a free iPod!"
-Ken Tremendous on Mike Downey.
Derek Holland
I realize the point of these posts is to review the top 20 from the beginning of the year, but just curious what John’s thoughts may be on Derek Holland. He followed up his debut in AA with another solid outing last night. Is this kid for real after only being a draft-and-follow?
Hopefully John will comment
…but those of us who have seen him think he’s definitely for real, probably the second best pitching prospect in this system behind Feliz right now (and that might even be closer than one would think). Really good fastball and he’s obviously handled the promotions well.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Aug 19, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Holland
IMO, Holland is and will be better than bullpen bound Feliz.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
Feliz
Feliz reminds me of Jake McGee (who I always thought was overrated), a kid who gets by with a strong fastball, but not much by way of secondary offerings.
Holland has a wider arsenal of pitches, and can touch 96-97 with his heater.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
Feliz's fastball is better than strong
He repeatedly hits triple digits. That’s a rung over McGee, is it not?
His secondary stuff Isn’t great, but he hasn’t really been developing it much to this point. Reports are that he’s been working on that lately. There’s still a lot of room for improvement there.
In addition, the throwing motion he employs has been dubbed ‘Smooth’ too many times for me to feel comfortable relegating him to the bullpen. When you have a potential ace starter, you do everything you can to grow him into that role.
Pretty clearly the first time he has ever looked at a web site. "And there are readers' comments at the bottom! And advertisements for products! And best of all, I won a free iPod!"
-Ken Tremendous on Mike Downey.
Comps
Holland:
High end upside – Scott Kazmir
Low end upside – Jon Lester
Feliz:
High end upside – Joel Zumaya
Loe end upside – Kyle Farnsworth
Until Feliz can prove he has more than just a fastball, I see him as a reliever.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
Bingo
Holland is THAT good, seriously.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
From Kevin Goldstein chat...
Sam (Arlington): How long will Derek Holland continue to fly under the radar? The kid has been filthy in AA.
Kevin Goldstein: Based on the number of Holland questions in the queue, I don’t think he’s flying under any radar. The thing about Holland that is most exciting is that this really doesn’t look like a fluke at all, all of the scouting reports are as eye-popping as the stats, including a fastball that’s been touching 97.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
feliz
high end zumaya?
you think hes stuck in the pen…at age 19?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 19, 2008 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Until Feliz shows me something other than a fastball, I dont see him succeeding as a starter at the major league level. The fastball is the easiest pitch to hit, especially when the batter knows the pitcher has nothing else in his bag of tricks.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
This would be a good diary
or fanpost, or whatever the hell they’re calling it now. You’ve convinced me to be more wary of Feliz, though I’m not nearly as cynical as you on him, but I’m less convinced about Holland (which is ironic because I own him in a league, and not Feliz). I think he’s a strong prospect, but not yet an elite one. I’d want to hear other people’s opinions and comments, though
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Aug 20, 2008 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Well...
I accept that I am perhaps overly critical of Feliz. He does indeed have a special arm that doesn’t grow on trees. I just think the labels of ‘elite prospect’ or ‘potential ace’ are premature. I’ve seen more flamethrowers become relievers than starters, that’s all. If Feliz can develope a second above average pitch, I would definitely be convinced that he has a shot to be an effective starter. At this point, that hasn’t occurred, and until it does, we shoud limit our expectations of Feliz.
As for Holland, he has only 1 plus pitch at the moment (mid 90s heater), however, his other pitches (slider, curve, change) have shown above average potential, but just require more consistency.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
never seen Feliz pitch have you???
or if you have it was probably in A ball when he didnt have to throw any secondary pitches, but in AA they’re making him throw a lot more offspeed pitches….he’s already throwing a curve and change that have huge potential he just needs to consistently control them….and since he’s 19 and in AA and those pitches are as far along as they are….I’d bet on them both being atleast above-average pitches when he reaches the bigs…..maybe people that have seen him pitch are more excited about him……not saying you havent but im pretty damn sure you haven’t atleast in Frisco….
i've seen his secondary pitches
and when he’s on, he has a damn good curve and killer change….he just needs to be more consistent with them and that will come…but the game i saw, he was spot on…..
oh and not saying his curve and change
are both strikeout pitches in the MLB right now lol just saying, the game where is saw him throwing them, at 19 in AA….they have huge potential and I’m happy with where he’s at in his development…..eccspecially since he skipped a whole level….as a prospect if he reaches his potential…he’s an ace, not a closer.
Actually
Holland reminds me of McGee. His secondary stuff isn’t that far ahead of Feliz.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Aug 19, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
nah
The only similarities between Holland and McGee is that they are both white and left-handed.
McGee was a one trick pony.
Holland has a quality slider, curve, and change. They are a little inconsistent, but very effective at complimenting his mid 90s heater. Holland has 4 quality pitches. Feliz has one.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
Holland has 4, Feliz 1
is a gross oversimplification. Both have much work to do on their secondary pitches, both at this point seem likely to have decent secondary stuff eventually. Since Frisco is so close to Arlington a lot of Ranger fans have been able to catch their starts and see this in person. Few are saying either is a one trick pony.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
IMO
Although both kids have plenty of development left, Holland is FAR ahead of Feliz.
Holland is a pitcher, Feliz is a chucker.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
5ip?
Thats as far as he went? Wow.
he case against him becoming a starter just got stronger.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
I don't remember the last time
I saw someone downplay a no-hit performance.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
60 pitch count?
If that is really is his pitch count there is cause for alarm. Kershaw is 20 and is allowed to go 100 in the majors. There is a difference between protecting an arm and training an arm to be unable to go deep into the games. That is what I fear is going to happen hear. I really think the Zumaya comp will be accurate in many different ways.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 20, 2008 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
It's all about how many pitches you want to increase a guy year-to-year
Feliz has never thrown many innings in a season, so they’re easing him into it rather gradually.
He’s never been a full time starter or even played in a full-season league before this year.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Or more likely
Kershaw has been rushed. Considering the Dodgers management Im going with that one.
Many organizations feel 20 years old is too young to push a young arm. In two years he’s past the injury nexus, his body is fully developed and he’s less likely to break down. Smart management if you ask me.
Id be worried about Kershaw, but I already was. Then again, I fear for every Dodgers prospect…
Dodgers or Rangers
I am pretty sure the Dodgers have a MUCH better track record of developing pitchers. Keeping Kershaw in the minors when he can be VERY succesful in the majors makes zero sense for a team, and will do little more then stunt his development. I think Feliz will be a good pitcher but like Zumaya and probably Jake McGee, he will have to move to the pen due to his lack of secondary pitches.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 20, 2008 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
track record
What young starting pitchers have the Dodgers developed recently and that have stuck in the big leagues other than Billingsley? Kershaw just got there, but as aslkor demonstrates above, it’s arguable as to whether or not he SHOULD be there.
How did Greg Miller turn out? Broxton went to the bullpen. Edwin Jackson is just now starting to turn things around in Tampa Bay.
Seriously, where’s this “track record” of which you speak? The Rangers recently have developed Danks, Volquez, Galarraga, and a ton of pitching prospects in the minors. Is there really any major (i.e. to be used as an argument) difference in track records here?
So the Dodgers don't get Credit for Jackson...
But you give credit for Danks, Volquez, and Gallarga? You can’t have it both ways my friend.
The Dodgers have developed Billz, Kershaw, Broxton, Hong-Chih Kuo, Eric Gagne, Chan Ho Park (hmmmm…..what happened after he went to the Rangers). These are just guys off the top of my head. Name me ONE starter who had more then TWO good years of success for the Rangers after being drafted by Rangers in the last 10 years and I will be very suprised. I am not saying the Dodgers are perfect at developing young arms (nobody is) but it is OBVIOUS that they do a much better job then the Rangers.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 20, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
fine
For the record, I didn’t give credit to the Dodgers for Jackson because he’s just now starting to become a decent starter, and he’s been with Tampa Bay for the past 3 seasons. Galarraga and Volquez were with Texas just last year. The Danks point, I won’t argue too much, although he is EXCELLING in just his 2nd season away from Texas.
I had asked you for starters developed recently by the Dodgers, and all you could give me were relievers, Billingsley, Kershaw (who should arguably still be in the minors), and CHAN HO PARK? CHoP is definitely not a recently developed starter. Hell, if you wanted to go that far back, we’ll throw out Kevin Brown and Kenny Rogers. But we’re not talking about a long time ago. I’m trying to talk about recent development.
Even if I give you Billingsley, Kershaw, and Jackson, there isn’t that great of a difference in terms of quality development from Danks, Volquez, and Galarraga. And if you look at the minors, the Rangers’ quality of pitching prospects far outweighs the Dodgers’ current pitching prospects.
Chris Young is pretty much the only starter the Rangers developed that has had had two good years with the team. But then he was traded. We can develop pitchers; we just can’t keep them.
I am not asking for Jackson..
First off Chris Young had 1 good year for the Rangers. If you consider his 7 game rookie line ‘good’ then your expectations are incredibly low.
Secondly, I am saying you can’t take credit for guys who had no success WITH the Rangers just like the Dodgers shouldn’t get credit for Jackson.
Thirdly, in the last four years the Dodgers have developed 2 great starters in Kershaw and Billz and 2 good relievers in Broxton and Kuo. Why have they not developed more starters? Because they have Penny, Lowe, Kuroda and other veteran starters at the beginning of the season. The fact that the Rangers pitchers had to LEAVE to reach their success after all performing poorly in Texas should tell you something about their potential to develop pitching.
Find me 5 teams who have developed 4 pitchers as good as the Dodgers mentioned over the last 3 seasons and I will be very surprised.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 20, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
you win
I wanted to make a point about track records only mattering as far back as the GM goes, and we are only now seeing results from Jon Daniels’ tenure at the helm…and it’s coming with a lot of pitching prospects.
It’s easy to get caught up in these types of narrow debates, isn’t it?
Very true
I am glad that we were both able to refrain from any personal insults that typically clutter the board. It is nice to have a discussion based more on facts that whoever has the most clever insult.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 20, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
ahh eric gagne
what a career as a starter that guy had. nobody will ever remember him in the bullpen
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 20, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Ummm...
I was referring to developing relievers as well.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 20, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Texas has a inninglimit they want him to achieve, but also
wants him to pitch in the playoffs in at the end of minor league season for AA Frisco. Hes going to be on this pitch count just to make sure that he gets to do both things.
They will let him go till tired once the playoff start. Its just a precautionary thing to make sure he doesn’t hurt himself. People forget that this was his first full season at full season ball, and has went from Low A to AA.
He's got an arm of gold
Can you blame the Rangers for being cautious?
Pretty clearly the first time he has ever looked at a web site. "And there are readers' comments at the bottom! And advertisements for products! And best of all, I won a free iPod!"
-Ken Tremendous on Mike Downey.
It's tricky...
A couple of arguments can be made.
1. As you have stated, they are protecting the kid’s arm from wear and tear.
2. Babying the arm prevents the building arm strength (Mazzone school of thought).
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
you're right
The Rangers should hire Dusty Baker away from Cincinnati just so he can knock some sense into the way we develop pitchers. Because if Feliz is going to have low inning totals per year, it should be because of injuries, not because the Rangers are babying his arm.
Mazzone
Mazzone’s beliefs don’t injure arms, he tends to get much greater success and health from his starters. In the book “The Baseball Economist”, the writer examines how Mazzone’s staffs compared to others during the time period and his results were off the charts. It is important to note that this was even after subtracting Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux from his research so people couldn’t just give the credit to his 3 aces.
Dewey is just pointing out that there is a difference of opinion between whether protecting an arm is beneficial or whether increased throwing improves arm strength. Personally, I think it is an individual question but I find it hard to disagree with the success of Mazzone in keeping starters healthy. Heck how many other pitching coaches have had 3 starters pitch over 20 years in the majors?
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 20, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
-1
For trying to use a Dusty Baker reference to get support for your argument. Stating Dusty Baker in a post is pretty much like a politician bringing up lower taxes, and 911 in an effort to get a cheap reaction from the crowd. Using the Baker name is like Mick Foley strutting out to the crowd and stating the name of the city he is in to get a cheap pop from the audeince. Boo urns on the uncalled for Baker reference.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Aug 20, 2008 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
fair enough
I was being snarky, and that is no way to build an argument. But Feliz’s high for innings prior to this year was 42.1. He now sits at 117.1 IP, and the team is playoff bound. He’s likely to more than triple his previous IP count. For a 20 year-old who is not build like a horse, I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to play it safe with that great arm of his. I certainly wouldn’t calling it “babying” his arm at all.
Given the Rangers’ lack of success with young pitchers in the John Hart era, I think Jon Daniels wants to play it as safe as possible, or else risking an injury to the brightest pitching prospect they’ve had in a long time.
You're so confident
you must be right!
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Aug 20, 2008 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
great reasoning.
sounds like hurleyhurler
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 19, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Teagarden
had a .411 BABIP last year. Isn’t this just regression to the mean?
I’m not really big on Andrus. He’s playing in a hitters’ league, and his lack of power is a damning indictment of other prospects like Tabata.
by number_twentyone on Aug 19, 2008 10:54 AM EDT reply actions
andrus
look at his stats since he got hurt. hes hitting for a MUCH higher BA since then.
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 19, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
power
Andrus is never going to be more than a 15 HR guy in the majors, but power just isn’t his game. He makes contact, hits for average, and wreaks havoc on the basepaths. So I disagree when you say his lack of power is a damning indictment of anything. Besides, power is one of the last skills to develop, and Elvis is still 19.
+1
I have been an Andrus critic for a year or two now, but he has really impressed me this year. When you grab international shortstops I think you are hoping they become either Miguel Tejada or Rafael Furcal. Power or speed. I don’t think any organization would complain about the lack of power if you have speed. Andrus just looks more like a lead-off hitter than a 3-hitter right now. Nothing wrong with that.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
Also
to say that lack of power should “damn” Andrus the same way it does a Tabata isn’t a very good point. Andrus is a premium defensive shortstop. Tabata is a bat-only left fielder. BIG difference in how much power those two need to develop to be a quality player.
But most important is what you mentioned about him being 19 and in AA.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Aug 19, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
not so fast...
I have gotten to watch this kid most of the games he has played in Corpus Christi this season and his defense is ok. Manzella (now with RR) set a pretty high standard for SS’s here.
Now on the basepaths…flat scary.
Allen Wahlström
CC, Texas
Defense
I think Andrus is young and tries to do too much occasionally on defense. He’ll grow up and be fine, there. You have to be impressed with how he’s matured as a hitter month to month this season. The defense will take more time but I’m not worried about it.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
Yes Manzella is great defensively
Thanks for shoehorning that into this discussion.
Andrus is very talented but as t ball said just too mistake prone at this point in his career. He gets to a lot of balls.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Aug 19, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
mr. sickles
do you still think that main is that much better of a prospect than beavan?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
Main's a B
And Beavan is a B-. That isn’t that big of a difference
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Aug 19, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
6) Michael Main, RHP, Grade B
13) Blake Beavan, RHP Grade B-
THAT is a big difference
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 19, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
neftili feliz
I’ve seen several internet sources describing Feliz as a guy who is more likely to be a bullpen arm than a starting pitcher. He looks like he has a great arm but where will he likely end up? Is there a reason he couldn’t be an ace SP?
The bullpen view has pretty much been put to rest unless he developes some form of arm trouble
Texas plans to keep him as a starter and let him continue developing his secondary pitches in AA to go with his 100 mph fastball
Response
Eh. He’s got a good two pitch mix in fastball/change, and he’s very young, young enough to the point where injury or age-related deterioration in stuff remain very likely.
That sounded a bit fatalistic, but really, he’s doing great for a 20 year old and projects just fine as a SP.
I think it’s still to be seen. His secondary pitches appear to be on enough of a positive track that he’ll stay as a starter, but he’s one of those cases where you just have to wait and see. He would be a major difference maker as a closer, so the bar to stay as a starter is probably a litt higher for him than some others.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Aug 19, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
That velocity
will make it tempting to put him in the closer role if his secondary pitches lag, but seems like right now they’re happy to give him time to develop into the starter we hope he can be. Perhaps dropping out of contention has a silver lining here: the calls for the team to bring him up as a reliever have stopped since that road trip. I don’t really think they would have done it, but I like that they have no reason to consider it now.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
Feliz and off season
This coming off season will be big for Feliz. His call up the the MLs is dependent upon his off speed pitches and mound presence. He will have plenty of time in the fall to work on both.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
Omar Poveda
What is ths status of this guys fastball? The last thing that I heard was that he was consistently hitting 92-95 on the gun, but that was at the beginning of the season. I love his changeup, but does his slurve still need work? What is his ceiling? Comparable?
all i know
is that he’s been really putting it back together recently. Bakersfield is just a real hell hole to be pitching in, even Holland had his struggles in the Cal LG, Kiker and Poveda have both started to come on strong recently.
Another note is that poveda will have to be put on the 40 or he could be taken in the Rule 5. It wouldnt be that suprising to me since he’s got the kind of stuff someone could just stick in the bullpen for a year.
I am hoping....
that he gets to start in AA next year….AA should be a breeze after the Cal League :) Thanks for the reply!
yea...
i think with his K rate he should be in AA. He’s got some definite promise and i think they have to move him up to see what he’s got
Plus
he was hurt at the beginning of the year and played through it, making some of his early season struggles a bit more understandable.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Poveda's pitches
Poveda is known for his fastball/change-up combo. The fastball is low 90’s, the change-up is a plus pitch that he uses in any count and that has allowed him to post high k-rates despite being very young for each of the leagues in which he has pitched. The exciting thing about Poveda’s 2008 season is the development of his curveball. Poveda is still getting ahead of hitters with the fastball/change-up but he is starting to get K’s with the curve. If he can improve his command while continuing to develop the curve, he could become a legitimate ML starter. Perhaps the addition of a sinker could reduce the flyball/hr rate.
by spurdynasty on Aug 20, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Some Names not listed
Jose Vallejo – AA 2B, 21 yrs old – Really come on strong this year, great defensive player, great, great baserunner and has really had a breakout year offensively.
Marcus Lemon – High A SS, 20 Yrs old – great patience at the plate, up there in OBP in the Cal LG, has shown some flashes of power.
Wilfredo Boscon, Martin Perez, Kennil Gomez, Carlos Pimentel – Stacked group of young Latin Arms in the Short season A and A ball levels of the Rangers system. Should be fun watching to see which of these guys really stands out.
And Feliz threw 6 innings of no-hit ball before being pulled tonight.
I have never been this legitimately excited about a Rangers pitching prospect.
Pretty clearly the first time he has ever looked at a web site. "And there are readers' comments at the bottom! And advertisements for products! And best of all, I won a free iPod!"
-Ken Tremendous on Mike Downey.
Correction, 5 innings
Very, very limited pitch count. As few chances as possible are being taken.
Pretty clearly the first time he has ever looked at a web site. "And there are readers' comments at the bottom! And advertisements for products! And best of all, I won a free iPod!"
-Ken Tremendous on Mike Downey.
pitch count
He did in only 62 pitches. 5 innings…. no hits….. 2 BB…… 3 Ks….. 20 years old…… in AA.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
Based on the posts in this review
John should definitely do more Rangers posts.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
A 2009 Top20 Devoid of C+ Prospects?
Perhaps it’s the rose-colored glasses, but in going through the list of Rangers minor leaguers who are likely to maintain their prospect status through the end of 2008, it struck me that Texas has an outside shot at having a 2009 Top20 prospect list comprised entirely of B- or better prospects.
B+ (or better)
(1) Feliz – Breakout year should significantly improve previous B-.
(2) Max Ramirez – Same as Feliz. Glove isn’t great, but ML call-up showed that he can be an adequate catcher.
(3) Andrus – Should at least maintain B+ grade with strong offensive numbers in AA.
(4) Holland – 21 yo LHP with mid-90s fastball/slider/CU has pitched at three levels (A/A+/AA) and produced a 2.40 ERA, 9.4 K/9, 1.01 WHIP and K:BB ratio north of 4.
B (or better)
(5) Smoak - Switch-hitting 1st baseman with outstanding defense, power, and on-base skills has been compared to Mark Texeira and Chipper Jones.
(6) Main – B before 2008 should at least maintain grade with outstanding (though injury-shortened) 2008.
(7) Hurley – Improved k-rate and solid ML debut should keep grade from falling below B.
(8) Teagarden – A- in 2008. High k-rate and low avg diminish excellent defense, walk rate, and power.
B- (or better)
(9) Beavan – 19 yo in full season A ball is among top10 in ERA and WHIP in the NWL.
(10) Kiker – Could maintain B from 2008 with a strong finish in A+ (2.70 ERA, 9 K/9, 1.29 WHIP in last 9 games).
(11) Borbon – C+ before 2008 has complemented plus defense and base-running with a 316/351/439/790 line in AA.
(12) Hunter – 22 yo RHP with low 90’s fastball, above avg curve, and change has produced a 3.56 ERA, 5.94 K/9, and 1.25 WHIP across three levels (A+/AA/AAA).
(13) Beltre – Five tool 18 yo CF has produced a line of 290/314/414/728 (314/338/435/778 since the All-Star break) with 27 steals in full season A-ball. K-rate has fallen below 20% but needs to start taking walks.
(14) Mayberry – B in 2008 book shouldn’t drop significantly after strong AAA season.
(15) Poveda – B- before 2008 season is seeing progress with a curve that complements his excellent fastball/change-up combination.
Potential B- Prospects
(16) Neil Ramirez – 19 yo RHP w/outstanding fastball/curve has a 3.38 ERA, 10.4 K/9, and 1.28 WHIP in short-season A ball.
(17) Lemon – 19/20 yo season as a shortstop in A+ was posting a ridiculously consistent 300/400/450/850 line until an August swoon dropped him to 296/382/435/818.
(18) Boscan – 18 yo RHP produces groundballs and K’s with a 90 MPH FB, good curve, and change-up and is among the leading pitchers in the NWL with a 2.96 ERA, 9.4 K/9, and 1.14 WHIP.
(19) Madrigal – Recently converted pitcher mixes a mid-90’s FB and hard slider to produce 3.00 ERA with 10.8 K/9 in AA and AAA. After a disastrous first game, has been solid in more than twenty innings pitching out of the Rangers bullpen.
(20a) Jose Vallejo – 21 yo 2nd baseman with outstanding speed (37 SB) and plus defense has produced cumulative line of 292/347/424/771 in stops at A+ and AA.
(20b) German Duran – B before 2008.
(20c) Kennil Gomez – 20 yo RHP produced a 2.97 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, and 7.2 K/9 in his first foray into full-season A-ball.
The depth of the Texas system will continue to amaze people.
Considering only 1 draft pick from the 2008 draft was mentioned in this post (Smoak), to go along with the graduation of 2 strong prospects in Harrison and Davis, and yet the Texas system will be even stronger than it was the year before.
The real question is going to be outside of Kiker and now Holland, will the LH in the orginization catch up to all the high end RHP? The drafting of Ross, Murphy and Blier might go a long way in filling that hole aswell.
isnt one of boscan or perez LHP?
not sure
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 20, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Request for help
It’s early yet, but I had expected to receive a lot more grief from fans of other teams regarding the notion that the Rangers have at least 20 prospects that are candidates to receive a B- or higher.
Excuse my ignorance, but has a team ever had a group of 20 prospects that John graded as B- or higher in one year?
I dont know
but while this may not the best farm system in baseball or may not even be top three, its gotta be right there with Oakland as the deepest farm system. Layers of talent coming up, even with the incredible amount of injuries at the Big LG level that forced a ton of early call ups.
great post...
Definitely shows that while at the top we lost Davis/Harrison and Teagarden kind of fell off, we still got a ton of depth. Thanks for the analysis
Renny Osuna
isnt even mentioned in the top 20 or even 25 guys in the system and he’s just put up rediculous numbers in his 2nd full season of minor league ball…
.349/.411/.469 in almost 500 ABs evenly split between A and High A
Old for his league is only downside.
And guys ahead of him that will limit him to A+
Graduations and Declining performance
Hurley, Madrigal have graduated from Minor leagues.
Mayberry has not continued the hot start that he had in Triple A, I think he was overrated.
Duran was struggling in Triple A and due to injuries got MLB playing time and struggled, has not found his groove in Triple A.
Gomez has missed almost all of 2nd half, yet dominating first half.
Now guys that could be B- or higher guys
Beau Jones, dominant as a reliever going through A+, now Double A
Joe Wieland, dominant in Arizona as an 18 yr old, 1.87 era with 33.2 innings and 28 Ks.
Martin Perez, has cooled of recently, yet solid numbers being youngest guy in Northwest league
? Jacob Brigham out all this year.
Prospect status limits
Hurley and Madrigal have thrown 24.2 and 21 ML innings, respectively. With Hurley on the DL and Madrigal in the bullpen, I don’t think either is likely to exceed the 50 IP limit that is used to graduate prospects.
I like Jones, Wieland, and Perez, but I question whether they have shown enough productivity to rank a B-. The same goes for other high-upside guys in the system like Font, Pimental, Telis, and O’Campo.
by spurdynasty on Aug 21, 2008 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
A 17 year old lefty
with a 4.26 ERA and a K/9 above 7 in A- ball? Sounds like a B- to me
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Aug 21, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
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