Sabathia traded to Brewers pending physicals
by Bravesin07 on Jul 6, 2008 6:54 PM EDT
70 comments
Brewers, Indians agree on Sabathia
By Tom Haudricourt Sunday, Jul 6 2008, 05:46 PMI just was told by a reliable club source that the Brewers have a deal in place with Cleveland for left-hander C.C. Sabathia, contingent on the paperwork being done and medical records exchanged.
But believe me, folks, that's a deal. All that other stuff is formality.
All I know so far is that top prospect Matt LaPorta is in the deal. I was told two lower-level minor leaguers also are included. The Brewers refused to include another top prospect such as Alcides Escobar or Mat Gamel.
Look for Sabathia to make his debut for the Brewers Tuesday night at Miller Park against Colorado.
I'll post more details as I get them.
http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/07/06/brewers-indians-agree-on-sabathia.aspx
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One other semi-confirmed:
3B Tyler Green has been scratched from the lineup tonight as well so one would think he’s involved.
by JPro on Jul 6, 2008 6:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brevard already played today
Green was in the lineup. Still, I think he’s one of the other two.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 6, 2008 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid Brewers
I think it was smart to make this deal, but they should have been pushing Gamel and held onto LaPorta. Why keep a guy who has to be a DH and trade away a RF? If Gamel and LaPorta were switched here, I would have no problem with this deal. And it’s always possible that Cleveland wouldn’t do the deal without LaPorta in it… who knows?
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Jul 6, 2008 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why would Gamel have to be a DH?
Gamel is more athletic than LaPorta. At the worst, he ends up playing first, which is where LaPorta would have ended up too. At best, he goes the Ryan Braun route and becomes a credible corner outfielder, which is better than what LaPorta was out there.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 6, 2008 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My freind played baseball in high school with Gamel
From what he’s said about his athleticism, there’s no reason he should have to DH.
by Fett42 on Jul 6, 2008 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1B...
I think the Brew Crew are pretty set at 1B for awhile. Why would they move one of their best prospects there?
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Jul 6, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because they're pretty set at corner OF too, and Gamel is a butcher at third, and Prince is a butcher at first
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 6, 2008 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't happen
The Indians wanted Laporta as the main part of the deal and likely don’t value Gamel as highly. I think the minor league ball community is a lot higher on Gamel then MLB scouts. Gamel is a good prospect but not really in the same range as Laporta.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Jul 6, 2008 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LaPorta is a DH as well
wouldn’t be shocked if LaPorta is starting in Cleveland after the break.
by Bravesin07 on Jul 6, 2008 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LuCroy in the deal as well
Hmmm getting a future catcher.
by Bravesin07 on Jul 6, 2008 7:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice!
I just drafted Lucroy in my DMB League. I didn’t like the fact that Salome was ahead of him, but I think his path is slightly clearer in Cleveland.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Jul 6, 2008 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i should be pissed at you for plucking him,
but i’ve gott another catcher on the way later this week.
ANATOMY OF ERA:
Variables Don't; Constants Aren't
by variablesdont on Jul 6, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where did you here that?
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 6, 2008 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey hendr and cubbies
GET.RICH.HARDEN.
murton/gallagher/patterson for harden/embree
by Asfan4ever723 on Jul 6, 2008 8:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why?
That is a terrible deal for the A’s
by Zabat on Jul 6, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2nd that
Why would the A’s give up a legit #1 starter (albeit oft injured) for a career #4 OFer, a career utility guy, and a backend starter?
Makes no sense
by ScottAZ on Jul 6, 2008 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+3
Terrible deal. I’m not sure I’d do that deal for Joe Blanton, let alone Rich Harden. Who wants Chicago’s spare parts?
http://www.myspace.com/ryanmac10
by RyanFromBonas on Jul 7, 2008 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, the actual trade was even worse
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
-1
For the Cubs, yes it was. We’ll see who won or lost in 2013.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jul 8, 2008 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you think the difference between Gaudin and Donaldson is greater than the value of Embree?
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I don’t want a collection of average players for a guy who us arguably top five in the majors from a stuff perspective. I know he has had a hard time staying healthy. But when he’s out there he deals. I don’t think the Cubs have what it takes in their farm system for Harden. On the other hand the lineups I saw thrown out there the last four days were so sad I would embrace just about any new hitter.
by bl on Jul 6, 2008 8:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lower level prospects
i just read that the two teams are exchanging two lower prospects each in addition to cc and laporta. anyone have any clue as to who is going from the cleveland system?
by RandyKutcherHair on Jul 6, 2008 9:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Link?
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 6, 2008 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re:link
now i can’t remember. i could be wrong, i have read so many different article. i will keep looking.
by RandyKutcherHair on Jul 6, 2008 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smart trade for both teams
LaPorta and Gamel fill the same basic role … 1B/OF guys with big sticks.
Trading LaPorta is smart. Now the Brewers have a second ace and they really only needed one additional 1B/OF guy anyway. Gamel is just as good as LaPorta. He just doesn’t get the mainstream hype for some reason.
Maybe they can start Corey Hart in center and go with Gamel and Braun in the corners. Gamel, though not a polished guy at third by any means, is an athlete.
Indians get someone who is much better than Ryan Garko and, really, don’t lose much in the process. Sabathia was going to be too expensive on the open market this winter.
"That ain't no etch-a-sketch. This is one doodle that can't be un-did, homeskillet."
by criminal type on Jul 6, 2008 9:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hart/Gamel/Braun is a really awful outfield
Hart’s not any great shakes as a corner outfielder; he’s not likely to be even average as a center fielder. Couple that with two stiffs in the corners and every fly ball is going to be an adventure out there.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 7, 2008 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luckily
Brantley has nice range in CF and should be up on the major league squad by the end of next season at the latest. Mike Cameron is in the final year of his contract, but has an option for next year. I’d like to see them decline it and call up Brantley instead and let him start the season in the majors. The Brewers need a lead-off hitter, and Brantley can do that. Great speed, great BB:K numbers. I like his future.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Jul 7, 2008 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure what you're talking about
There’s still a lot of questions about Brantley’s ability to play CF. The Brewers continue to play him there sporadically (he has 21 G at 1B this season), and Lorenzo Cain, who is a better CF, just got promoted to Huntsville.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 7, 2008 4:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems
Cain got promoted to AA to take LaPorta’s spot in RF. That’s my guess at least. He has played most of this games this season in RF. Only 47 at bats have been as a CF (about 10 games I’d guess?).
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Jul 7, 2008 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's because he was playing with Darren Ford
Ford > Cain > Brantley, as far as CF defense goes.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 7, 2008 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
how you don’t see Hart as a good or better corner OF. Hes got plenty of speed and arm
by nms on Jul 7, 2008 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hart and Braun are fine defensively
It helps if you know at all what you’re talking about.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 7, 2008 4:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hart has been consistently below average
in RZR since arriving in the major leagues. His arm was measured at minus 5.6 runs last season as a right fielder.
There isn’t much data on Braun, but he’s been in the bottom third of NL leftfielders (not exactly a dynamite group) this season.
Oh, and fuck you for the unprovoked personal shot.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 7, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, and the fact that Hart is 4th and Braun tied for 1st in OOZ is meaningless
Way to present only half of the puzzle. As for the personal shot being unprovoked, apparently your reading comprehension really does suck.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 7, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, I'll play that game
Total plays (including OOZ) divided by balls in zone:
Giles 171/134=1.28
Winn 179/147=1.22
Fukudome 160/132= 1.21
Pence 192/160=1.2
Hart 176/154=1.14
Upton 143/125=1.14
Francoeur 150/135=1.11
Nady 163/149=1.09
Hermida 156/152=1.03
Griffey 125/122=1.02
Hawpe 109/114=0.96
So, essentially, average as a right fielder. Maybe a little above. Counterbalanced by a comparatively crummy arm. Hm. That sounds a lot like what I said in my original post above.
I don’t have time to do the same thing for Braun but eyeballing the numbers, he looks about the middle of a pack of really, really crappy outfielders. We’re talking Adam Dunn, Pat Burrell, Carlos Lee here. Finishes well behind the three quasi-decent fielders at the position (Holliday, Lewis, Pierre).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 7, 2008 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
new update, Indians if this is true should fire their GM tommorow
by Bravesin07 on Jul 6, 2008 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I heard the player to be named later is Green. The Indians just want to make re-evaluate green with the possibility of moving him to 2b
by world dictator on Jul 6, 2008 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of agree
Is that really all they could get for Sabathia?
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Jul 7, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All?
They got one of the top 5 prospects in baseball for a guy who will be a Yankee in 5 months
by fartballs on Jul 7, 2008 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
Gave up 2 1st Round picks in the process (albeit supplemental). I love LaPorta, and think he’ll be a great AL DH after a few years of mediocre OF play. But when you factor in the 2 picks they would have received, especially when trading him early, perhaps it’s not that great for the Tribe. That said, I’m not sure the other suitors, other than LA, would have offered too much more.
by killa on Jul 7, 2008 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude
The first round picks would have been from picks 16-50 or so.
La Porta was a #7 overall pick just last year and has done everything, and maybe more, you’d want a #7 overall slugger to do so far.
Those two picks aren’t going to come close to matching the value of LaPorta for the Indians. For the Brew Crew it is great because it gives them something to buffer the loss of minor league talent but if you are the team trading away stars for prospects turning down a top guy for two late pick is not nearly worth it. Plus those 2 first rounders will cost you 1.5 to 2 mil to sign whereas LaPorta’s bonus was paid by MIL.. so you save a wee bit o cash
by nms on Jul 8, 2008 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
this was an excellent trade for the tribe. they are going nowhere w/ CC or whatever he wants to be called now.
in the process they’ve picked up one of the best prospects in baseball plus and the fact of the matter have as good of a chance as any to re-sign him in the off-season. those draft picks probably wouldn’t have come close to what they just got.
great trade!
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Jul 8, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys really need to learn to link to rumors you're citing
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 6, 2008 10:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
According to Green’s agent, he is not the PTBNL.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 7, 2008 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should say
Green’s agent is unaware of it if he is.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 7, 2008 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading comprehension?
Nowhere in that post does it say “Green is not the PTBNL.” In fact, if anything it conveys uncertainty as to whether he is or not.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 7, 2008 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading comprehension?
I corrected myself/clarified in the post immediately above yours. The agent said “it’s not Green” in a message board post, but later amended himself.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 7, 2008 4:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what happens to LaPorta?
Do they try to “groom” him for the field, or just do the Billy Butler thing and concede that he’s a DH right away?
by siddfynch on Jul 7, 2008 12:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Butler at first
It appears they are giving Butler a shot at firstbase. This season he has played 21 games there and only made 1 error. I’m not sure of his range, but this is a remarkable improvement from his legendary minor league error numbers.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Jul 7, 2008 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have Hafner signed until forever
LaPorta can’t DH yet.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 7, 2008 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hafner's contract
The extension the Indians signed him to in 2007 kicks in in 2009 – four years at $51.75 MM including the buyout. Will this be the worst contract in baseball?
by faketeams on Jul 7, 2008 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's right up there with Zito's.
I don’t think anyone anticipated Hafner going to the dump this quickly though… Granted injuries have changed him as a hitter, but still he’s only a couple of years removed the his huge break out season… I think LaPorta goes to 1B, maybe RF where Francisco/whomever else hasn’t been great. Hafner is a ways away from returning to the lineup, so DH is still a possibility.
"When Justin Upton faces Lincecum, I think Christ might appear in the heavens, and the world will end." -JakeFree
by JT12340 on Jul 7, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mean to sound overbearing,
but all-hit, no field position players entering 30, especially DHs, should be expected to decline relatively quickly. That’s not to say there aren’t exceptions, but those exceptions are rare and Hall of Fame talents. For supposedly the best front office in baseball, this was a pretty foolish contract if you ask me.
by elrey34 on Jul 7, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hrmm...
Well, I concur on the “bad contract” portion of your comment. I don’t think there’s any other way to spin it, especially considering that the Indians still had multiple seasons before Hafner was an FA. I get that it was pre-emptive, but Branch Rickey was right to say that it’s better to lose a player a year early than a year late.
My question is really this : why did people expect Hafner to decline so young and quickly? I don’t remember hearing anything along those lines. Moreover, Hafner hit for average and wasn’t the sort of strikeout machine, bad bodied three true outcome player who usual falls victim to Old Player Skills. I’d honestly think David Ortiz is more likely for this sort of decline than Hafner, and really, I’d think Jack Cust, Ryan Howard, or Adam Dunn is the sort of player who we should be looking at. Hafner didn’t quite fit the bill, if you ask me.
by GuyinNY on Jul 7, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How we knew...
that he was in line for a drop? We heard baseball was going to improve their steroid testing lol.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Jul 7, 2008 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad Contracts
The list goes on, but how soon do you forget many NY mistakes.
Bonilla, Pavano.
Oh and those Colorado school systems… Mike Hampton’s deal was bad too
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on Jul 7, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least Hampton could kinda hit?
Pound-for-pound, Denny Neagle’s Colorado contract was pretty freakin’ bad too…
"...and the only things I've found better than listening to Vin Scully are listening to Keith Jackson and uncut cocaine." (bleedjaxblue)
by drjayphd on Jul 7, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LaPorta can’t DH yet.
Neither can Hafner.
LaPorta’s a fine 1B if the whole OF thing doesn’t work out. There’s no reason to DH.
by mraver on Jul 7, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great move for Milwaukee
I think this move gives the Brewers the best 1-2 in baseball. LaPorta is great, but this gives Milwaukee a legit shot at winning the NL. Get to the playoffs with C.C. and Sheets pitching 4 of the 7 games in a series and I like your chances (especially if Gallardo is back and the way Parra looks.) It also ensures a legit #1 starter if Sheets goes down again.
Even if C.C. leaves after this season (very likely) Milwaukee will receive a first round pick and a supplemental first round pick as compensation.
So Laporta plus for a legit WS appearance and two first round picks, I would take that trade every time.
by bl on Jul 7, 2008 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
It’s probably because I find LaPorta overrated, but getting an ace for the playoff run and two first round picks for what they gave up and the fact that LaPorta was something they have a log jam in is a great move for the Brewers.
by elrey34 on Jul 7, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gamel's numbers will like dip
without protection from laporta. he’s still a study though
by son.of.sourman on Jul 7, 2008 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brantley out tonight
I think he is the PTBNL. Gamel 0-2 tonight
by Bravesin07 on Jul 7, 2008 9:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brantley's been out for awhile with a sprained ankle
But I’m pretty sure he is indeed the PTBNL of choice, and Taylor Green the backup option.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 7, 2008 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope not...
I juxst drafted Brantley in my DMB League because I needed a long term CF. If he moves to Cleveland he has to move to a corner OF spot, which disappoints me greatly because I am already deep enough there with Bay, Delwyn Young, Mayberry, and Burgess.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Jul 7, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brantley might not hit enough to carry a corner OF spot anyway
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jul 7, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a bad deal for the Tribe
We weren’t going to sign CC. Matt LaPorta is a top 20 prospect and should be an impact offensive MLB player. The Tribe doesn’t have any of those in our minor league system. The PTBNL will also be an impact player as the Tribe gets to scout a few players from a list agreed upon. They have till the end of the year to make their choice but the players on the short list are upper tier prospects. Right now the leading candidate IMO, is Taylor Green. The Tribe has asked the Brewers to play him @ 2B for a while so they can scout him as a potential 2nd baseman. Given the circumstances, I think Shapiro did a pretty good job. I just wish Eric (I’ll do it my own way) Wedge was part of the package going to the Brewers. I wish CC the best in his time with the Brewers.
by shark on Jul 8, 2008 8:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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