Why Pat White gave up baseball
I read this story, and immediately pictured a dozen scouts shaking their heads. White could have been the next Carl Crawford, but will probably end up as a WR in the NFL because of the actions of one coach.
http://www.zagsblog.net/2008/07/29/pat-white-rips-west-virginia-baseball-coach
The most interesting and controversial comments from Big East Football Media Day came from West Virginia senior QB Pat White, who said he did not play for the school’s baseball team this spring because there haven’t been many African-American players on the team.
“In my knoweldge of West Virginia baseball, there’s not been many players of my race on his (head coach Greg Van Zant’s) team,” said White, who is African-American. “He’s not too high on it.”
Van Zant did not immediately return a phone message left at his office.
A Heisman Trophy candidate, White is also a talented outfielder. He was a fourth-round draft pick of the Anaheim Angels in the 2004 MLB Draft and was selected in the 50th round of the 2008 MLB June Draft despite not playing baseball since his senior year of high school.
White said he discussed playing baseball this year with new head football coach Bill Stewart, a big baseball fan.
“A couple months ago he told me if I wanted to play, I could,” White said of Stewart. “He knows the game and (he knows) there’s few athletes on the team that can play more than one sport and he just wanted to give (me) the opportunity.”
Stewart praised White as the “second coming of Major Harris” and said “people in West Virginia are blessed” that White is the school’s quarterback.
He joked that White told him he wasn’t going to play baseball because he couldn’t hit the curveball.
“Coach, I don’t know if I can hit the curve,” Stewart quoted White as saying.
White, however, said he would have considered playing, but not for Van Zant.
“I definitely thought it over, I still think about it sometimes,” White said. “I’m loyal to my (football) team. I have another year left. I want us to be successful and I want to be part of that success.”
The West Virginia football team was picked by the Big East coaches to finish first in the eight-team league following last year’s victory over Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl.
Asked if he had spoken directly with Van Zant about playing for him, White said: “(No), he wasn’t (excited). He wasn’t interested.”
Then he paused and added:
“In my knoweldge of West Virginia baseball, there’s not been many players of my race on his team. He’s not too high on it.
“Every player I’ve talked to doesn’t like him. He’s not a well-liked coach but I guess he has tenure so they never got rid of him. They’re not successful at all.”
Asked if he might have played if there were a different baseball coach at West Virginia, White said, “Maybe.”
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idiot
1) the % of black players has steadily gone down across the board for NCAA baseball teams
2) WVU is a very white state non the less. It is going to be tough for a coach to sell a black kid on coming to West Virginia…especially since WVU isnt a big baseball school.
to essentially call a coach racist for it is ridiculous.
by jsmall404 on Jul 29, 2008 2:34 PM EDT 0 recs
agreed
I see where White is coming from but I don’t think this is a story that needs to be picked up and blow out of proportion.
Plenty of college baseball coaches are dicks to their kids for all sorts of reasons. It happens, doesn’t mean hes a racist
by nms on
Jul 29, 2008 3:25 PM EDT
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who is the racist here?
White dosent want to play on a team that is predominantly white..so, if there were more homies on there he would?
by jsmall404 on Jul 29, 2008 4:58 PM EDT 0 recs
You are reading things into White's comments
He never said anything to the effect of what you said he did. The writer did mention it in the lead paragraph, but I don’t see anything in what White said directly that says he didn’t want to play because there aren’t enough blacks on the team. If you can find it, please show me.
To me, this is part of the differing racial lenses that we all view these issues in. Minorities (including me) view things differently than white folks, including (I’m guessing) the writer of this article. And it doesn’t mean that one side is necessarily right or wrong, but the truth is often somewhere in the middle.
by Flynn Blake on
Jul 29, 2008 8:57 PM EDT
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dont be nieve
what do you think he is saying here?
Were there any stated reasons why he didnt want to play? No, but it was obvious from the whole article that it is because he thinks the coach dosent want black players. IE if the coach DID want black players, he would be more willing to play
by jsmall404 on
Jul 29, 2008 9:20 PM EDT
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So let's go over your point
If a coach doesn’t want to play black players, you think a black guy should be thrilled to play for that person, or would be himself a racist? I don’t know quite know how to convey just how much I disagree with you. If a coach doesn’t want to play black people, nobody should want to play for him. Such an attitude isn’t just racist. It isn’t just stupid. It’s against the law.
That being said, I don’t know anything about this particular coach or this situation, so I have no idea if this coach is or is not racist. It does seem a concern that a player would think that. In a government-funded school, that should probably be enough for somebody to at least look into it
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on
Jul 29, 2008 10:26 PM EDT
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how!?
does anyone know if he dosent want to play black players???? that is what is so ridiculous..so you dont have a quota of enough black players on your team and now you are a racist. brilliant.
I am not saying White should be thrilled to play for him..I am saying him not wanting to play with white players isnt exactly helping his point.
by jsmall404 on
Jul 29, 2008 11:00 PM EDT
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um
White said that the baseball coach “isn’t too high on” having black people on the team. What are you missing?
White says:
In my knoweldge of West Virginia baseball, there’s not been many players of my race on his (head coach Greg Van Zant’s) team," …He’s not too high on it."
by nms on
Jul 29, 2008 9:36 PM EDT
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I think you're focusing on different parts of the quote
White said:”"In my knowledge of West Virginia baseball, there’s not been many players of my race on his (head coach Greg Van Zant’s) team," said White, who is African-American. "He’s not too high on it." “
JSmall04 focused on him saying that there weren’t many African-Americans on the team, and accused White of being racist for deciding to play or not to play based on the racial disposition of the team. Flynn Blake and I are focusing on [the coach] not being “too high on” playing black players. It seems to my NY Jew ears that the first sentence is meant ironically (then again, I think most things are ironic) and his real point is that in his opinion (which again, may or may not be right – I don’t know), the coach intentionally keeps black players from his team. At the very least, this is a serious accusation
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on
Jul 29, 2008 10:30 PM EDT
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I think
a reasonable person would agree that White insinuated the coach is racist ..or at least does not like black players.
by jsmall404 on
Jul 29, 2008 11:02 PM EDT
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Exactly
And neither you nor I have any way of judging whether the coach is or is not a racist, or does or does not follow racist policies. Without having any information, I see no reason to assume that the coach is right or that the player is right.
I must say I find these criticisms of Pat White for making this accusation a bit problematic. If White were lying, that would be reprehensible. Even if he is just mistaken, it would be unimpressive. But at this point, we have no way of knowing whether his complaint about the baseball coach is valid or not. Whether this particular coach is or is not racist, there certainly does exist enough real, actual racism that we shouldn’t simply attack somebody for making the accusation without any evidence
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on
Jul 29, 2008 11:07 PM EDT
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I'm saying
Him even alluding to the coach being racist is ignorant of him – since there are many reasons there arent many black players on the team – other than racism.
by jsmall404 on
Jul 30, 2008 10:37 AM EDT
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So, accusing someone of being racist is racist
Boy, there’s a convenient attitude. It’s like accusing anyone who doesn’t want to give huge tax cuts to the rich of class warfare.
Oh, wait. Dumbass southern conservatives do that too.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 30, 2008 2:18 AM EDT
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NO
accusing someone of being racist without offering any proof is racist.
and I never said that, I said him not wanting to play with white players isnt any better than the coach “not wanting black players”
by jsmall404 on
Jul 30, 2008 10:40 AM EDT
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Huh?
“accusing someone of being racist without offering any proof is racist.”
Ummm…no? It would be mean and maybe even slanderous, but not racist.
The point isn’t whether Pat White is right or not. You’re right that there are ten reasons why it’s possible there aren’t that many black players on the WV baseball team. It is also possible that Pat White is correct and that the coach is in fact a racist. He was interviewed by a reporter and he said that in his opinion, the coach is a racist and that is why he did not play baseball for him. He could be wrong. He could be a bastard who calls everybody a racist, the Uncle Leo of college sports. Or he could be right. Neither you nor I know whether he is right or wrong so there is no reason to criticize him (or praise him) until there is evidence.
And again, he never said he didn’t want to play with white players: he didn’t want to play for a team that insists on having only white players
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on
Jul 30, 2008 11:13 AM EDT
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Non-Story
This seems like three inconsequential seconds of an interview that were needlessly blown up into a whole article.
by aap212 on Jul 29, 2008 5:05 PM EDT 0 recs
i played on a college team that was all white
the college also happened to host an event that year with an author who wrote a book about the negro leagues, with at least 1 former philadelphia star (the local negro league team) on the stage with him.
some of the natives were not too happy that there wasn’t a singe player with african bloodlines on the team, and that the school was hosting an event like that, talking about how far we’ve come.
the next year there were several blacks to play fall ball with us.
ANATOMY OF ERA:
Variables Don't; Constants Aren't
by variablesdont on Jul 29, 2008 6:02 PM EDT 0 recs
White is talking out his rear
Seems like a pretty ignorant statement on White’s part. I wonder if he even realizes that many of the historically black colleges like Bethune Cookman and Jacksonsville State have baseball teams that are mostly caucasian and latino. African Americans aren’t playing the sport and it’s very misguided put that on Van Zant’s doorstep.
As for Van Zant not being enthusiastic about White joining the team… well… does he have any football players on the team? Maybe he’s simply not enthusiastic about any athlete being on his squad that considers baseball their secondary hobby after football? Missing games or baseball practices for football stuff… and of course he would have to bend rules anytime White said he needed to do something for football because he’s the most vital cog of the football team. There are many possibilities why Van Zant wouldn’t be bending over for White to join the team but he it was convenient to play the race card i guess.
by fourthandeye on Jul 29, 2008 7:47 PM EDT 0 recs
I'm so tired of race as an excuse in life.
Seriously to all sides and parties involved in every situation. Grow up.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on Jul 29, 2008 10:14 PM EDT 0 recs
Excuse?
What excuse?
What bad behavior is White excusing? Is not playing baseball some kind of crime?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Jul 30, 2008 2:22 AM EDT
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Not at all
But throwing someone else under the bus with zero evidence of ANYTHING is ridiculous. And using the race card is so old.
Like someone said above, what if the coach really just didn’t want a two sport athlete on the team?
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on
Jul 30, 2008 8:40 AM EDT
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like I have said
there are at least 10 reasons I can thnk of that he dosent have alot of black players on the team…to allude to the fact that he is a racist becuase of it is just ignorant.
by jsmall404 on
Jul 30, 2008 10:44 AM EDT
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i don't know, Metty
leaving aside the fact that: 1) i think he DID offer some evidence (as do you - but then choose to accept a different interpretation of the evidence - an interpretation that COULD be right, but is pretty unsubstantiated, given that you’ve know nothing about the the coach personally and can’t cite any data to back this theory up, and, furthermore, doesn’t negate the fact that he DID offer evidence), and 2) i’m not sure why it is you think “evidence” was necessary to present in a situation like that…..
.....how is he “using the race card”? or making an excuse?
he’s not explaining why he got cut from the baseball team. he’s explaining why he chose not to play.
saying he can’t give an explanation of how he feels based on race seems akin to telling women that they can’t explain to men that they’re not interested or cry rape afterwards because that’s “so old.”
by bleedjaxblue on
Jul 30, 2008 11:24 AM EDT
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RE
First, I don’t offer a single bit of real evidence. I offer an alternative possibility, one that could be valid but who knows?
My issue here is that White, a nationally known athlete or soon to be nationally known athlete, coming out and saying that a coach doesn’t like black players.
Its a little unclear about whether or not he spoke to the coach or not but all he says is that he wasn’t too excited about it. And there haven’t been maybe players of his race on the team.
There are 1000 reasons why he might not be excited. Two sport athlete, Second Hobby, Not serious, and many others. It is unfortunate that today, people still jump to that as the first thing. HE COULD BE A RACSIT. I am not denying that, but there is zero proof of it. And it appears that he didn’t speak to the coach at all.
Baseball is becoming more and more Latino, and there has always been a strong white presence. There are less and less African American players every year. And even less that are strictly one sport baseball players. That is due to many other things than racism.
The fact that we jump straight to lynch this coach without hearing a response. The fact that the first thing we jump to is someone not getting what they want/deserve because of the color of there skin disgusts me. It exists, I am not denying that, but it disgusts me non the less.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on
Jul 30, 2008 3:02 PM EDT
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...why Jeff Samardzija gave up football?
if only.
I'll warm up with you anytime
by ufoboy90 on Jul 30, 2008 1:25 AM EDT 0 recs
Wow, is this reaction way out of line
He chose not to play baseball. He explained his reason why not—he thinks the coach is a racist. If he’s wrong, then he’s an ass—but to simply assume he’s wrong, without even considering the possibility that maybe an old white coach at a southern university might—just might—not be 100% immune to the slightest possibility of racial bias is frankly moronic.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jul 30, 2008 2:26 AM EDT 0 recs
??
you cant ASSUME someone is racist. he needs to offer more proof to his assertation of else he is a dumbass.
and pick up a map, west virginia isnt a southern state.
by jsmall404 on
Jul 30, 2008 10:42 AM EDT
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"offer proof"?
it seems like he’s offered more of it than you have—saying he’s both talked to players on the team and citing the lack of black players historically. you’ve said absolutely nothing.
furthermore, this isn’t a trial. people asked him about why he didn’t play. presumably, HE has more proof. he’s met the guy, who also apparently wasn’t interested in him playing (even though major league teams WERE interested in him.
you REALLY need to grow up. and deal with reality too.
by bleedjaxblue on
Jul 30, 2008 11:17 AM EDT
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so wrong I don't know where to begin
you are the one in the wrong here. White offered nothing of substance to back up his claim. He cited the lack of black players which just shows his ignorance to the fact even the historically black colleges lack blacks on their baseball teams. His other supporting anecdote is that players “don’t like him”. What the hell does that mean? Why don’t they like him? The Phillies never liked Larry Bowa, does that mean he’s racist? I’ve never liked BleedJaxBlue, does that mean he is racist? WTF?
by fourthandeye on
Jul 30, 2008 11:38 AM EDT
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dude
i’m pretty sure Pat White - unlike you - DIDN’T just jump to conclusions.
i’d imagine what players told him DID have something to do with race.
what he “offered” alluded to that.
now, a bunch of people here roast White for not disclosing every gory detail inside the program, or for daring to open his mouth at all.
maybe Pat White made a mistake. maybe he doesn’t know everything about Van Zant (though i’m CERTAIN he knows a lot more of substance than all of the people here defending him). but you have to wonder - why would Pat White have decided not to do something he loved based on nothing? sometimes, when there’s smoke, there’s fire. and White really has nothing to gain by reporting the smoke - in fact, based on his hesitation to reveal the rumors he’s heard and his (limited) experience with Van Zant, i’d say that White genuinely DIDN’T want to talk about this issue.
meanwhile, you’re sitting here, banging your chest about how, in a court of law, this evidence wouldn’t be admissible as hearsay or something. “OMG! the newspaper didn’t go into detail about what the anecdotes were!”
question, though: given that the article DIDN’T go into detail about what White had heard, why do you take it as fact that those anecdotes WERE innocuous? i understand you’re proud of yourself for coming up with a version of the story where the lack of black athletes is tied to general apathy of African Americans in playing baseball (which is true), and that the “anecdotes” were simply white players saying “we don’t like him because he yells at us” which White somehow interpreted as further evidence of Van Zant being a racist (a fairly unlikely story, but still at least plausible given the extremely limited facts that you know) - but how have you now decided that this IS what happened???? i’ll tell you where NOT to begin - with that assumption.
by bleedjaxblue on
Jul 30, 2008 2:29 PM EDT
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Although
Aren’t you supposed to assume somebody is innocent until proven guilty? Also, branding a coach with a scarlet R will pretty much make it a self-fulfilling prophecy?
I think the burden of proof is squarely on White’s shoulder since he intimated that Van Zant is racist. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think any reasonable person could tell one way or the other based solely on what White said. It’s so much easier to label someone than it is to disprove that allegation. VZ is pretty much in a no-win situation here.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on
Aug 3, 2008 1:18 PM EDT
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so is Mike Zrzyzwski
racist becuase Duke dosent usually have alot of black players on the team???
my point is you cant use something like “how many black players” are on a team to determine is someone is racist or not.
by jsmall404 on
Jul 30, 2008 10:51 AM EDT
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PS
how many black players would White LIKE TO HAVE ON THE TEAM??
on avreage, NCAA rosters are composed of 6% blacks..he needs to realzie this isnt football where half of his teammates are black.
by jsmall404 on Jul 30, 2008 10:44 AM EDT 0 recs
Right
Actually it’s less than 6%. That’s about 1 out of 18 guys. I don’t follow college baseball too much, but that’s like what, 1-2 guys per team? I don’t know how many black players WVU has, but if it is ZERO, they happen to have 1-2 guys less than average. He’s the most valuable guy on the football field for a Top 10 team, I can see a lot of reasons why this isn’t a big issue. I’m not saying his point is invalid, but I can see a lot of reasons why I don’t see warning flags too.
by killa on
Aug 1, 2008 9:09 PM EDT
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Stupid
Until I read this post, I had never heard of Pat White or Greg Van Zant, and I don’t know anything about either of them, but attacking a coach at your own school on media day just seems really stupid to me. He made these comments on Media Day, of course they’ll be picked up and dissected.
by delmonfan on Jul 30, 2008 3:19 PM EDT 0 recs
where do you live
that you have NEVER heard of Pat White?
by nms on
Jul 30, 2008 4:03 PM EDT
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white has more info than you and I
It sounds like he briefly touched on the subject. Maybe he knows there have been african american players in the past that should have made the team but didn’t, or maybe he has talked to guys on the team who spoke of the coach giving different treatment to black players. None of this could be true or all of it could be true. It’s not like he told his entire story and every conversation he has had with the coach, current baseball players, and ex-players. We don’t know any of that other than the little he said there. We only have one side of the story and that is Pat White’s and I don’t know why someone would just make this up. Now I am never a guy that thinks playing the race card is something that needs to be done. I despise every time that it is stupidly brought into situations that have nothing to do with race. All I am saying is that we only have one side to this story and jsmall you are taking the quote that there aren’t many black players on the team as the only reason that he’s not playing. I guarantee he knows more about the coach than you do and he has made a choice based off that information. I don’t know how you can just blow this all off and blame Pat White. Yes, he chose not to play and it was because of the coach. For some reason you are protecting this coach with zero evidence to counter what White has encountered from personal experience.
by uwbadger on Jul 30, 2008 5:55 PM EDT 0 recs




