A's take #1 in MLB Prospects?

HAHAHA

Get serious. They lack the high upside prospects the Rays have. Who out of that group are you convinced can be an elite MLBer? And dont say Inoa, the kid is 16.

by bravitos5122 on Jul 17, 2008 9:04 PM EDT 0 recs

A's are only better than the Rays based on Depth.

Price is better than any of the A’s prospects but A’s have much more depth.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 9:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

I would put the Rays ahead of them

and maybe the Rangers, especially if Daniels is able to land some more talent this month in a trade or two. In a couple of years both the A’s and Rangers might be beating up on Seattle and LAA regularly with the talent they have on hand.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 17, 2008 9:19 PM EDT 0 recs

For now the A's are ahead of the Rangers ...

the Rangers’ strength is depth - they lack even as much high end talent as the A’s have (which is their system’s weakness) - but, for now, at least, the A’s have surpassed the Rangers in terms of depth.

The Rays clearly have more high end talent—but the A’s have more depth of good or better talent … which is more valuable? Good question …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Jul 18, 2008 4:37 AM EDT up 0 recs

This is good topic

to revisit after the trade deadline. The Rays might deal away someone (even to the A’s or Rangers) and the A’s might deal Street, the Rangers have several players they could deal (Millwood or Padilla, Bradley, one of the catchers, Blalock, Guardado or Wright from the bullpen, Catalanotto have all been rumored to be available.)

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 18, 2008 10:28 AM EDT up 0 recs

Question

Are we counting Davis, Hurley, Harrison, and Ramirez?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Stuff-You-Need-Brett-Favre-action-figure-bench?urn=nfl,93739

by BudLight on Jul 18, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

Who

of that group could be elite MLBr’s?? Well lets start out by asking who behind Price the Rays have that YOU think can be and elite MLB’r?? It all depends on what you consider elite. I think Price is the best prospect out of either organization, but behind that i’ll take the A’s system. More depth, and more consistency. IMO any of Cahill/Gio/Anderson/Simmons/Mazzaro could be future all-stars. And yes, we will mention Inoa because he’s legit. He could be pitching in the big leagues by the time he is 19-20, and many scouts say that at 16, he would have went in the top 5 in this years draft. The A’s have more pitching then that worth noting, but I am short on time. Doolittle/Cardenas/Carter/Cunningham and more have the potential to be above average MLB hitters, and Beane likely isn’t even done trading yet.

by JPShark on Jul 17, 2008 9:19 PM EDT 0 recs

What?

Do they have left to trade? I’m sure all the playoff contenders will be knocking down Billy’s door to get their hands on Emil Brown and Jack Hannahan. LOL

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

by WayneCampbell08 on Jul 18, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

How about Street or Duchscherer?

Nothing left to trade, huh?

by aap212 on Jul 18, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

Or Embree.

Or Mark Ellis.
Or Bobby Crosby.
Or Murton.

by jibs on Jul 19, 2008 8:09 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yep

they could really make some noise and you didn’t even mention Street or Cardenas, who they could turn around and flip (though I’d be surprised.)

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 19, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

Honestly

how much could they get for any of those guys save Street?

by FirebatM3 on Jul 19, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think they can get a decent (B-/C+) prospect for Embree from a contender

Duke would obviously command a premium return the way he’s been pitching this year. Ellis is hard to gauge—he’s actually an outstanding player but teams that don’t know how to evaluate defense (probably >50% of them) will just see a below-average hitter. Crosby is dreck, the A’s would be lucky to get someone to claim him on waivers. Murton would have to be thrown in on a deal (perhaps with Street).

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 19, 2008 10:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Inoa?

already in head of Doolittle and Simmons? I’m pretty high on Inoa, but I wouldn’t put him above those players.

by asyouwish33 on Jul 17, 2008 9:25 PM EDT 0 recs

Rays have more talent developing

Nick Barnese is a pitcher that is following the McGee/Davis/Hellickson pipeline and is pitching very well in SS-A tonight he K’d 10 guys in 5.2 IP and has a 1.57 ERA on the season.

by Bravesin07 on Jul 17, 2008 9:26 PM EDT 0 recs

depth is overrated

Depth is nice but fans can overrate it. I will always take the system with less depth but produces more core players than a system who produces a lot of major leaguers but few difference makers.

by bravitos5122 on Jul 17, 2008 9:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Really?

Top prospects collapse all of the time. Jake McGee was probably a better prospect than anybody the As have, but a single injury and though he might come back, it’s rather uncertain. In terms of hitting prospects, I think you have a better point, except the As are relatively weak in terms of elite hitting prospects

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Jul 17, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

Since most prospects don't make it

Depth is far more important than having one or two “Sure thing” future All-Stars. I can barely even comprehend the opposite argument.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 20, 2008 2:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

No

Rangers and Rays 1 and 1A…Oakland is in the top 10 though.

Josh Hamilton is better than you.

by Longhorn on Jul 17, 2008 9:54 PM EDT 0 recs

Says the Rangers fan.

When will then be now? Soon.

by Syphon on Jul 17, 2008 10:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Truth hurts?

Josh Hamilton is better than you.

by Longhorn on Jul 18, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Your truth differs from my truth.

So no.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Jul 18, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

Who are the Rangers even going to have after this year?

Neftali Feliz is terrific, Eric Hurley, Kasey Kiker, Michael Main and Teagarden are good, and Elvis Andrus is interesting but once Davis and Max Ramirez get promoted, their system will look a bit thin, no? Granted that’s for the best of reasons, but I can’t imaging them being stronger than either the Rays or the As

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Jul 17, 2008 10:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

The Rangers after this year

Even without Davis, Hurley, and Ramirez the system is stocked pretty well. Feliz, Smoak, Andrus, Main, Beavan, Kiker, Teagarden, Beltre, Harrison, Holland (very under the radar lefty), Hunter, Vallejo, Font, Martin Perez, Madrigal. I think all of those guys would be in most any team’s top 20, with the possible exception of Perez and Font simply because they’re so young.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 17, 2008 11:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

Response

No mention of John Mayberry?

The guy’s splits against LHP over the last few years, including this year in AAA, indicate that his floor is 4th outfielder/backup 1B capable of being one half of a very formidable platoon. If he’s figured out how to make things work consistently against RHPs, he could be a very good regular.

by mrkupe on Jul 17, 2008 11:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

+1

I know his ceiling isn’t great, but I think he is underappreciated on this site. I see him becoming a 260-270 type hitter with an OBP in the 330s. Draws 50 walks or so a season, strikes out 120+ times and hits 25-30 homers. That’s pretty nice to have, especially in AAA. I could see him getting a lot of playing time next year in the majors. Move Murphy to LF and put Mayberry in RF (don’t know much about his defense but I don’t hear bad things about it… and no news is good news).

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Jul 18, 2008 1:11 AM EDT up 0 recs

I didn't try to list everyone

Mayberry belongs there too.

I think one of the real strengths of the Rangers’ system is in the youngest guys. They have a lot of guys in A ball who are very interesting, and several young Latin arms that look promising.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 18, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up 0 recs

By your own count

Having 15 players who would make the average team’s top 20 is not exactly proof that the system would be the best in the major leagues.

I’m not arguing that the Rangers don’t have a strong minor league system; of course they do. It’s even more impressive when you consider the set of people that they’ve graduated (which might include Matt Harrison, btw). But the list of people you’re mentioning doesn’t have as much elite talent as do the Rays, or as much depth as the As.

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Jul 17, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

Andrus is more than interesting.

He’s 19 in AA, hitting for average and getting-on-base. He’s essentially doing what Fernando Martinez is doing except with great defense at SS instead of average defense in LF.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Jul 17, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up 1 recs

Point taken

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Jul 17, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

That's pretty arguable

Elvis is hitting the Texas league for absolutely no power. Fernando is hitting in the Eastern league, slugging over .400 (which Elvis is not even close to) and he’s playing centerfield.

by Lunkwill Fook on Jul 21, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yep

Elvis definitely has his merits, but I don’t see any point in comparing two players so different.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

Rangers are not in the top 3

Rays are definitely #1. Oakland is definitely #2. After that is a pretty big drop-off.

Oakland and Tampa will each have three guys in the top 25 (Cahill, Anderson, Cardenas, Price, Davis, Hellickson – all top 25) and still good depth after that. Feliz will be top 15 prospect. Tegarden, Andrus, Smoak may be in the 30-50 range – if that.

Rangers AT BEST are #3, and they are way far away from either Tampa or Oakland. If I thought on it more, I may come up with teams better than Texas (San Fran? Boston?

by Galt on Jul 18, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

Smoak

Definitely top 25. Andrus is borderline, but Cardenas isn’t in his league and Davis is borderline too.

by bushe on Jul 18, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Smoak is definitely top 25?

Compare him to Matt Laporta for example from last year. LaPorta did obscenely well in his first try out in A ball, and still only made #22. Granted, Smoak is a stronger defensive player than LaPorta, but I don’t think he’d make the top 25 unless he signs relatively quickly and does very well. That isn’t to say he isn’t an excellent prospect – he is – but probably not an immediate top 25 pick

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Jul 18, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Better defense, as stated

And a year younger.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Stuff-You-Need-Brett-Favre-action-figure-bench?urn=nfl,93739

by BudLight on Jul 18, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Smoak didn't have a bad year like LaPorta

and doesn’t have questions about his ability to use wood

by bushe on Jul 21, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

smoak

hasn’t proven anything in professional ball, and he did have problems in the cape cod league after his sophmore year. I love the guy but I find it hard to automatically put him in that kind of class. Tons of top prospects wash out every year, at least LaPorta has proven his worth.

by zeisenbe on Jul 22, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

Cardenas

I doubt he’s top 25.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 18, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

Cardenas

BA had him ranked 26-30 when they put out their top 25 list two weeks ago.

With promotions and such, it’s pretty logical to think he’s top 25.

by Galt on Jul 19, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

Rangers in top 25

Feliz for sure. Andrus maybe. Smoak probably. Then you might have Beltre/Main/Beaven depending on if they can tear it up in the 2nd half.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Jul 19, 2008 12:26 AM EDT up 0 recs

No

Andrus and Smoak aren’t going to be top 25. Andrus has do absolutely nothing in the minors. Great, he’s young. At some point he has to at least produce. He’s empty average and that’s it. No walks, no power, no speed.

Smoak wasn’t even one of the top 10 prospects of the ‘08 draft, and now he’s going to be a top 25 prospect in all of baseball? Please remove your rose colored glasses. He still hasn’t even played a game.

The As are volumes better than the Rangers.

by Galt on Jul 19, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

Andrus

and by saying he has no speed, I of course meant that he only has 37 steals.

Point still remains that he’s got a sub .700 OPS, he doesn’t walk much, strikes out a fair amount, and does truly have no power. And I mean NO power.

by Galt on Jul 19, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

Andrus

While I agree that Andrus isn’t a top-25 prospect, I think this is a clear case of looking only at some superficial numbers instead of all the ways in which a ballplayer can help win games. If Andrus becomes a .350 OBP guy in the bigs, as he’s been doing this year in AA (at a super-young age), he’s extremely valuable because of his outstanding defensive skills at a middle infield position. Neither Ozzie nor Omar were able to post a .350 OBP in a season until their age-29 seasons. Now, I’m not saying Andrus has as much range as those two greats, but – by all reports – he’s not too far behind.

by BobbyMac on Jul 19, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

R U High?

KLaw had Smoak as his #3 player. I could never find BAs draft ranking but in their mock they had him going #5 to San Fran. Kevin Goldstein had him #4. I don’t know if you have heard of Jon Sickels but he had him ranked #5. So if you would take that crack pipe out of your mouth and open your eyes that would be awesome.

I’ve seen many people far smarter than you opinion that Smoak will be the Rangers #1 prospect following this year. Then one Neftali Feliz emerged and BA recently ranked him #12 overall in their midseason re-rank, one spot ahead of Oaklands best pitching prospect. I would think you would know that considering you referenced it above. So even if Feliz has passed him by, wouldn’‘t that put Smoak in the 15-25 range.

And on Andrus I see you amended your comment about him having no speed which is obviously inaccurate. He’s a 19 year old SS in AA, but I guess hes got to hit 20 homers to impress you. Hes got the potential to play gold glove D at SS with an MLB average bat. But seeing your above rational makes me realize you might think that has no value. After 71 games this year Andrus was hitting .298/.356/.353 this year and has been on a tear after coming back from an early season injury. Hes obviously no Barry Bonds but he does walk more than never as you previously stated. I don’t know what kind of power your really expecting a 19 year old in AA that weighs maybe 180 LBS.

Not to mention the Rangers have a 22 year old First Baseman actually succeeding upon being called up. Who if he had been left in the minors this year would be in the top 15 right up there with Feliz. I guess it would be better for us to have guys like Daric Barton, Travis Buck and Carlos Gonzalez so we could send them back down to maintain their prospect eligibility. After all that’s what it’s all about right?

I could write another something about Engel Beltre but you can just go to BA and look at the Prospect Hot Sheet.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Jul 19, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

As an exercise

I’m still trying to figure out where Cardenas, a “2B”/maybe LF, ranks in terms of Rangers positional prospect.

Obviously, I have him below Davis and Ramirez, and Andrus and Smoak as well.

Is he a better position prospect than Teagarden? Lemon? Borbon?

by FirebatM3 on Jul 19, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Answers to your questions

Yes, yes, yes

by mrkupe on Jul 19, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

Cardenas

I would assume he’s in the 30-40 range when they release them this winter. But if he has to come off 2B, which a lot think he will, his bat won’t play so well in LF.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Jul 19, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

3B is a LOT more likely than LF

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 19, 2008 10:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Not nearly enough arm for 3B

by FirebatM3 on Jul 19, 2008 11:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

The scouting reports I've read say otherwise

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 20, 2008 12:57 AM EDT up 0 recs

Hit me with a link?

by FirebatM3 on Jul 20, 2008 1:03 AM EDT up 0 recs

Bit of a late answer

but Jim Callis said that he thought Cardenas would end up at third in his chat o’ the week at BA…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 23, 2008 1:08 AM EDT up 0 recs

Response

I think his bat’s going to play reasonably well most anywhere. High batting average, at least a fair number of walks, average pop, solid speed. He might be the sort of guy who plays 2B for a team one year, then LF the next, then 3B the year after that . . .but I think the point is, he’s going to play, and he’s going to perform at a very respectable level.

by mrkupe on Jul 20, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think the reason he's been tried other places is that he was with the Phils

Who, you know, have an ok 2B for the next several years. Cardenas is too special a player to get blocked behind Utley, so they looked other places.

As for PT’s comment, one place is here

Strengths: Thick and strong, Cardenas has an easy, compact stroke from the left side that produces consistent line drives with good loft power. He squares up breaking balls and fastballs equally well, and he makes hard contact to all fields. He exhibits above-average arm strength at his new position.

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

re

I like the jab you take at the way the A’s do things.

If it’s one thing the Rangers have proven its that they know how to handle their talent better than the A’s, right?

by blee1134 on Jul 19, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Rangers

This discussion is about the A’s and Rangers. I was merely pointing out that the Rangers had graduated a lot of their upper echelon hitting talent while the A’s hitters aren’t quite hitting like they should.

I think its Goldstein that considers players under 25 to be prospects and when you have guys like Davis/Boggs/Ramirez/Duran all up in the big leagues it makes a big difference in how your system looks compared to the A’s when Gonzalez can’t even beat out Emil Brown for a job.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Jul 19, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

re

Gonzalez can’t beat out Brown? Are you really trying to use that as an argument?

How about when Chris Davis couldn’t beat out Chris Shelton?

by blee1134 on Jul 19, 2008 7:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

When was this?

I seem to remember Chris Shelton being DFA.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Jul 19, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

"How about when Chris Davis couldn’t beat out Chris Shelton?"

When did that happen?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 20, 2008 10:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

re

in the same sense that Carlos Gonzalez couldn’t beat out Emil Brown

by blee1134 on Jul 21, 2008 12:05 AM EDT up 0 recs

Sorry

I didn’t realize that Oakland has begun playing RF in CF that weren’t really interested in playing defense to begin with. But that probably was a bad comparison by me. My other two posts were written in a bit of a blinding rage. A more apt comparison might be Travis Buck not being able to beat out Emil Brown for those 295ABs hes received this year.

Also I don’t see how Chris Davis jumping up two levels this year to render the Broussard/Shelton/Cat epic first base disaster a distant memory.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Jul 21, 2008 12:34 AM EDT up 0 recs

Oh my.

Yep! Just the center fielder for the best defensive team in the majors!!!

Good thinkin!

by Emmett89 on Jul 21, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yep

That’s why I was extremely confused when I saw Gonzalez playing CF. I know he has the arm and speed to play out there but who knows maybe in the last 4 months hes taken an interest in actually playing defense.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Jul 21, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

It sure looks like he has

Because he’s been pretty good out there.

http://bocropleasestopswingingatbadpitches.blogspot.com/

by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

Gonzalez has been pretty outstanding defensively

Offensively… not so much. But at least he’s showing potential.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jul 23, 2008 1:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

You're getting in

over your head, here. You’re reaching.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 19, 2008 7:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

He was drafted 11th

thus not even the top 10 in that draft. I realize it’s that cut and dry, but you are absolutely on crack if you think he’ll crack top 25 this offseason.

by Galt on Jul 19, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

So Jason Castro

is a better prospect than Justin Smoak? Ike Davis is better than Gerrit Cole?

Basing the quality of prospects solely on draft position is dumb.

by FirebatM3 on Jul 19, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

Good Argument

You said Smoak wasn’t one of the ten best prospects in the draft. Feel free to admit your wrong.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Jul 19, 2008 6:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

and enough

with the condescending douchebaggery.

go fuck yourself.

by Galt on Jul 19, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up 1 recs

I don't think Andrus

will make the top 25, but you’re underselling him a bit. He’s the youngest player in the league, and he has more than held his own. His numbers have improved every single month, not exactly the mark of an overmatched player. Andrus’s OPS numbers by month:
April – .612
May -.662
June – ..777
July – .796

Add in his speed and defensive potential and he’s nothing to sneeze at. Cardenas is an awfully nice player, but he’s a year older and playing at a lower level.

And you’re right, there is no condescending douchiness needed here. We ALL have rose colored glasses on to a certain degree. And we could all make solid cases with details about a number of prospects on our favorite teams.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 19, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

by PaulThomas on Jul 19, 2008 10:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

Andrus

slugs about .450 after his wrist/leg injuries

by FirebatM3 on Jul 19, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Response

This character made it inside the top 30 last year despite being drafted No. 14.

Just saying. It could happen.

by mrkupe on Jul 19, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up

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