J.P. Ricciardi trashes Adam Dunn

by GuyinNY on Jun 19, 2008 1:38 PM EDT Comment 35 comments

"

Ricciardi slammed Dunn on his Wednesday night phone-in show on The Fan 590, a Toronto radio station. His comments came after a caller suggested the Jays acquire Dunn, who is hitting .227 with 18 homers and 43 RBIs with the Reds.

“Do you know the guy doesn’t really like baseball that much?” Ricciardi said to the caller. “Do you know the guy doesn’t have a passion to play the game that much? How much do you know about the player?

“There’s a reason why you’re attracted to some players and there’s a reason why you’re not attracted to some players. I don’t think you’d be very happy if we brought Adam Dunn here …

“We’ve done our homework on guys like Adam Dunn and there’s a reason why we don’t want Adam Dunn. I don’t want to get into specifics.”

Ricciardi was generally sympathetic as callers vented following the Jays 5-4 loss to Milwaukee. But Ricciardi’s demeanour changed when a caller mentioned Dunn as a hitter who might “save” the Jays’ moribund offence.

“He’s a lifetime .230, .240 hitter that strikes out a ton and hits home runs,” Ricciardi said.

“Yes, he hits home runs, which none of the Toronto Blue Jays are doing,” the caller replied.

That retort triggered Ricciardi’s shot at Dunn as a player who “doesn’t really like baseball that much.”"

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/postedsports/archive/2008/06/19/jays-notebook-ricciardi-trashes-adam-dunn-on-radio-show.aspx

I find it absolutely amazing that Ricciardi would go off on ANOTHER team's player like this. Can the union file a grievance about depressing Dunn's potential FA value? What could be the "specifics" Ricciardi is discussing? This is just unbelievable - an MLB GM going off on another team's player. Particularly a player who would seemingly fit the Jays so well as a high OPS type to replace Frank Thomas. What's going on with all the invective up in Toronto. It's like some weird permutation of the old Bronx Zoo.

What do you guys think?

P.S. I realize this has nothing to do with the minors, but I thought it really merited conversation. Besides, if I'm a top prospect and I have the choice between a major college program and the Blue Jays organization, aren't I better off taking my chances elsewhere? This has been an astonishing season in Toronto.

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At first I was like WTF

but it made sense it context. Ricciardi definitely took a prissy “I know better than you, so cram it” kind of tone but he was telling the guy that Dunn isn’t on their radar for character reasons. He definitely shouldn’t have gone specifically into the reasons they didn’t want Dunn.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jun 19, 2008 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Response

Ricciardi needs to take a class in learning how to say what you want to say without actually saying it. He could’ve said that the organization is looking for a certain type of player who has a combination of present production and the makeup to ensure future production, and that they are always in the process of evaluating players like Adam Dunn to see if they would be an appropriate fit. He would’ve gotten himself completely out of the situation, and if you’d like to read between the lines a few months down the line, it probably won’t matter by then.

Rest assured, though, that J.P. Ricciardi is not the only person and almost certainly not the only general manager who feels that way about Adam Dunn. Information spreads very quickly throughout the baseball world, and Ricciardi probably didn’t come to his conclusion about Dunn totally on his own. One needs not look any further than the incredibly lukewarm trade market for Dunn over the past several years, despite the Reds clearly not being opposed to trading him for a package of prospects.

by mrkupe on Jun 19, 2008 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm as big a stats/Moneyball fan as anyone

but Ricciardi needs to go. He’s failed to turn his team around, he hasn’t done a good job drafting, and he is prone to unprofessional lapses like this one.

Those comments are dancing uncomfortably close to slander and character assassination. Then there’s the added factor that he’s in Canada, which may have more lenient burdens of proof for slander cases than the US does. It would not surprise me all that much if he ends up with a lawsuit over this.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 19, 2008 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

lol

Those comments are dancing uncomfortably close to slander and character assassination.

wtf?

Then there’s the added factor that he’s in Canada, which may have more lenient burdens of proof for slander cases than the US does.

double wtf?

by pedrophile on Jun 19, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude, Tort is messed up in the U.S.

And it is more messed up in Canada. In the U.S., defamation originally fell under the same definition as fraud which basically comes down to what the defendant said was wrong and that he knew what he said was wrong. So if I called you an hole, the preponderance of evidence would have to show that not only are you not an *hole but that I knew when I said you were an **hole it was untrue.

So basically defamation should be impossible to prove except in the most excessive cases, but precedent (common law) has devolved that to a much looser standard making it much easier to sue someone for slander in the U.S. especially someone who is not subject to strict right to privacy (celebrities) to sue a public entity. When comparing Canadian law to that of the United States at least both descended from English law so they are not like apples and oranges (incidentally English law has a much looser definition of defamation then the U.S. as well) but without getting too far into politics Canada has a more liberal way of judging what is defamation and what is not. This isn’t to say that you can go up to Canada and sue anyone you want because tort litigation is still hard to win as a plaintiff.

So after getting ridiculously off the subject, you are right that Dunn would have a very hard time suing Ricciardi because he would not be the first person to claim so and he could bring scouts and others to help show his words were not without previous diligence.

So to make a long story short I agree with you but not with the fact that you dismissed Paual’s comment so quickly

Don't believe the lies Bill!!!! look at the sparkly ERA!!! Sparkly, Sparkly!!! - McCovey Chronicles

by Trenchtown on Jun 19, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

the first point is that it’s not really close to slander or character assassination.

The second being his comment was “there is the added …” when in fact it is not an added factor or anything in support of it being easier to sue in Canada when in fact it’s much more difficult.

If you read the comment it would sound like it is an added factor or making it worse. But it’s a mitigating factor. I don’t give two shits about grammar. But he makes it sound like something it’s not.

Ricciardi is a tool. But let’s not get into the legal aspects and all unless it’s warranted.

That is really my point.

btw – Ricciardi has retracted much and tried to properly deal with this by contacting Jockety and trying to contact Dunn. He is still a tool though ;)

by pedrophile on Jun 19, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

Don't believe the lies Bill!!!! look at the sparkly ERA!!! Sparkly, Sparkly!!! - McCovey Chronicles

by Trenchtown on Jun 19, 2008 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Slander?!? please...

The only time I could remember some type of libel or slander suit because of some sort of insult between members of a pro sport was Butch Carter suing Marcus Camby prior to a playoff series for lies. That suit quickly got dropped and helped to Carter his job.

As for JP, he had his chance and should be terminated ASAP. Let one of those number of teams that he claims is interested in him hire him when he gets fired. I don’t care so much about his arrogance, but more of his ineptitude as a GM. Too much money poorly spent or wasted and a lack of a farm system as chief reasons why he should go.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Farnsworth: Start the ship, Leela. Let's just steal the damn radar dish and get back to our own time.
Fry: But- But won't that change history?
Farnsworth: Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa! Let's get the hell out of here already! Screw history!

Farnsworth: You mustn't interfere with the past! Don't do anything that affects anything. Unless it turns out you were supposed to do it. In which case, for the love of God don't not do it!
Fry: Got it.
Farnsworth: If for example you were to kill your grandfather, you'd cease to exist.
Fry: (gasps) But existing is basically all I do.

by parrot11 on Jun 19, 2008 4:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

JP know he's going to be the next GM canned

Wouldn’t be shocked if he gone around the AS break. Horrible contract signings ie. Wells and Rios.

by Bravesin07 on Jun 19, 2008 5:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This would be absolutely wrong....

if he wasn’t so right. I can’t say about the not really liking baseball part, but he was correct about everything else.

Dunn is one of the most overrated players in all of baseball right now. He is not a good defender, his career batting average is under 250, and he strikes out a ton. I know the “but his OBP is almost 400” argument is going to come, but I’m not buying it. Walks are great… when combined with hits. A runner can’t go from 1st to 3rd on a walk. Runners can’t advance on strikeouts. A guy can walk all he wants, if he can’t get hits at a decent clip, then he is hurting the team. Dunn barely knocks in 100 runs every year because he can’t hit a ball safely. With his kind of power, if he could just get his batting average up into the 270s he would be knocking in 130+ runs a year. And THEN he would be helping the team.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Jun 19, 2008 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I really hope this is how the rest of the GMs think

so that the A’s can sign him to a reasonable contract…

He’s pretty much Jack Cust, except better. And Jack Cust is pretty good.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jun 19, 2008 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I'm not an As fan

but agree with everything else you say

by OldProspects on Jun 19, 2008 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you don't knock 130+ runs a year

you’re not helping your team? 106 RBIs and 101 Runs last year didn’t help his team? 40 home runs each of the last 3 years didn’t help his team? Slugging percentages over .500 don’t help your team? What, pray tell, DOES help your team other than hitting singles and grounding out?

by OldProspects on Jun 19, 2008 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

plus

walks seriously undervalues the whole OPS thing. More walks = lower slugging since slugging is based on at-bats and OB is based on plate appearances. A totally flawed stat if there ever was one.

by pedrophile on Jun 19, 2008 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

More walks is more lower slugging?

Come again?

by OldProspects on Jun 20, 2008 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ummm...

second the come again part…

walks aren’t counted as at-bats so not sure how it lowers slugging percentage…

by SLK on Jun 20, 2008 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He does help the team...

but he also hurts it. Homeruns are great stats, but if you are hitting 40+ of them, you should have a lot more RBIs. But since he is a three outcome player, he knocks in a lot less runs. That hurts the team. Since he can’t even hit 250, that hurts the team. Praise the base on balls all you like, and many here do. But a walk will never be as valuable as a hit. I think Dunn would be a lot more valuable if he could get more hits.

Let’s take two players. One with Dunn-esque numbers. Something like 240-390-510. Then we take another player and add 30 points in BA and subtract 30 in OBP. We’ll keep the SLG the same and cut the Strikeouts down to about 100. So now we have a 270-360-510 player. Who is going to drive in more runs? Players can take extra bases on hits. Fielders can make errors and allow the runners to move farther ahead on hits. The same goes for flyouts and groundouts. They are more valuable than strikeouts. Runners can’t advance bases on strikeouts, but they can when you groundout or flyout.

This may just be my beliefs, but I haven’t seen any study or stat that proves them wrong.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Jun 19, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But life doesn't work that way

Maybe it’s possible that a 270/360/510 player is more valuable than a 240/390/510 – I can’t imagine how those extra walks hurt a team, but for the moment we’ll assume you’re right. This isn’t the choice that a team faces. The Blue Jays have to decide, do we want Matt Stairs or do we want Adam Dunn. Certainly we can imagine mythical players that would be more valuable than Dunn (For example, if he hit an extra 20 homers a year and struck out 60 less times, he’d be more valuable) and there are real players who are more valuable than him, but that doesn’t belie the point that Dunn is a terrific hitter who is extremely valuable.

by OldProspects on Jun 20, 2008 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not quite....

by raising his BA to .270 and keeping his slugging the same, you are taking away extra base hits at the same rate you are adding singles and in addition you are losing the walks. So the .270/.360/.510 will be on base less and have fewer extra base hits. He might drive in more runs, but the difference won’t be as dramatic as you say and he will certainly score fewer runs, since he will be on base less and when on base, he will be less likely to be on 2nd, 3rd or hit a HR. All in all, I would guess that the .240/.390//510 player gives you more runs for your team.

by DenverBears on Jun 20, 2008 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And how much do you really lose by not getting sacrifice flies?

Since Adam Dunn has come up, he’s hit about 3 or 4 sacrifice flies per year. The league leader in the category tends to hit in the low double digits (10-15 or so). So you’re arguing that the 30 points Dunn would lose in OBP as well as the hits he would give up as Denver Bears points out are a worthwhile trade for about 7 runs over the course of the year?

And, if we’re going to talk about all the benefits that Dunn doesn’t get from not hitting the ball in the park, maybe we should also talk about the things that he avoids. Like grounding into double plays. Despite being rather slow, he has only once grounded into more than 10 double plays in a year. Derek Jeter, on the other hand, regularly gets more than 15 (and Jeter doesn’t even get sac flies either!). Albert Pujols more than 20. Aren’t the lesser amount of GIDPs a decent trade for the possible loss of sacflies and useful ground outs?

by OldProspects on Jun 20, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

best part of the quote from Dunn

“If anything happens, I ain’t going to Toronto,” Dunn said. “I can eliminate one team. I’m not converting my dollars to loonies and toonies just yet.”

(Note: loonies and toonies are what Canadians call their one and two dollar coins.)

by sabernar on Jun 19, 2008 7:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

I have one question

How the hell JP Richardi has his own radio show? Second, look I am not a Adam Dunn Fan (the guy is less than a .230 hitter in RISP) but JP didn’t have to say it like that. He could of been professional but instead acted like a fan on sports talk radio

The way JP acts and having his own radio shows despite all the bad moves he has made, he seems to have “diplomatic immunity” in that organization.

by NYYLover1000 on Jun 19, 2008 10:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

JP

doesn’t have his own radio show. He was talking with the fan 590 which is the Canadian wide sports radio station. It’s the worlds largest station of that sort (since it is across the country) as far as I know. It’s pretty cool in that they get awesome people on air. Many espn, baseball insiders, and others.

Ricciardi is known to be very emotional and says stupid things when he is brought under fire. Much of what he says is accurate but shouldn’t be said. For example he tore apart AJ who is another tool. Not classy to do. But he was probably fed up after paying top dollar to a prima donna who isn’t performing, complains a lot, isn’t coachable, and visibly wants out.

I’m not a fan of Ricciardi. I would rather him gone. But he says stuff that I could imagine myself saying and then regretting. Of course that is why I wouldn’t hire myself ;)

by pedrophile on Jun 19, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well maybe his own segment time to time.

Anyway, JP had to know the red flags on Burnett before he signed him. I understand that he signed him just for upside but performance and results count. The Vernon Wells contract i didn’t like either. You don’t give Superstar money to very good players (EX. Alan Houston).

Plus, it makes him looked bad that he rip players that he brought in hear.

by NYYLover1000 on Jun 20, 2008 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The thing that bugs me the most is...

that the team knew of Wells’ shoulder injury prior to signing that huge extension. That to me was plain dumb and was probably made out of fear more than anything else.

by parrot11 on Jun 20, 2008 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Once a week on the Jays post game radio show

JP takes calls from listeners – usually wednesdays…I listen to the Jays post game show with great regularity, but missed it last night…JP is usually a little more “testy” after a loss, though he should be used to it by now, but, he is refreshingly frank with his responses – especially when compared to Gord Ash, his predecessor…he has spoken before about not wanting Bonds because of “character issues”, and my guess is he just went a little too far in his explanation regarding Dunn…but really, he just pulled back the curtain for us, said what was on his mind…in a sports city like Toronto we hear all kinds of nonsense cliches all the time…and for the most part, he’s a refeshing change…
I’m a frustrated Jays fan, but I do appreciate JP’s honesty and accesibilty on the radio – do other GM’s take calls once a week from listeners? These aren’t his buddy’s calling, these are (usually) very disappointed fans and he is a “stand up” guy with his answers and comments…and, host Mike Wilner is outstanding…

by almantle on Jun 19, 2008 11:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

good points...

Ricciardi is probably about to fire his long time friend and having to deal with call-in-show-types at the same time can probably be a bit irritating. Regardless, he shouldn’t have said it and was man enough to apologize (which I wasn’t sure he would).

And as a note, contrary to what was stated earlier, the Fan590 is a Toronto radio station and is NOT a nationwide station. Rogers owns a network of radio stations across the country, but they don’t play the TO lineup of shows – they have programming that is of interest to their audiences. I know here in Calgary on the Fan960, we only get a few Jays games and rarely get Wednesdays With JP.

by ayjackson on Jun 20, 2008 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

why does JR still have a job?

the guy is incompetent at all levels, and tries to make up for it by lashing out like a caller to a talk radio show.

pathetic: awful G.M. and, insofar as one can tell, an awful person: what a complete lack of class.

by scooter on Jun 20, 2008 9:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Was going to say the same thing

How does this guy still have a job??? And on top of that how does John Gibbons still have a job? Neither has had success while in Toronto, both are tools, I think they are just riding their time out together until they both get canned…

I am a Torontonian and an Adam Dunn fan, and I hope Dunn lights up Jays pitching in their series next week!

by bunner on Jun 20, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And as soon as I posted...

Gibbons was fired…FINALLY someone was listening to me :)

But Cito Gaston, really? Is this 1993???

by bunner on Jun 20, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You better hope it's 1993

and John Olerud comes back

by OldProspects on Jun 20, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gaston is awesome

How many other managers have 2 rings? Larussa only has two and he has been coaching for around 25 years. Heck, he was only able to win 1 with the amazing A’s teams. Managers aging usually does not affect their abililities (see Jim Leyland), and I am thrilled to see Cito back.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Jun 20, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The absolute worse thing that can happen

is if the Jays Jays play well and think that they have a chance in future years. The best thing that can happen is that they fire JP and rebuild. That team is not going to compete in the AL East and they need to face that fact.

by parrot11 on Jun 20, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

rebuild?

who is old?

I think Burnett should go. Halladay is still young, Marcum & McGowan are very young, Litsch is solid. They will have the $11 million freed up or Burnett. That’s a young and top rotation.

Pen is very solid with Ryan & Accardo (once the forearm is better) + a few other solid guys.

Rios, Wells, Hill, Rolen, Overbay, + some nice OF prospects.

Their catcher duo is ok. Nothing special but ok. Their SS is the same. Either spectacular D or an ok guy like Eckstein.

The real problem is 1B/DH. It should be something of strength not mediocrity. They don’t need both to be top notch. But they certainly need one of them.

btw: everyone knows Ricciardi has his job on the line. Bringing in Bonds he wouldn’t care about clubhouse disruption or anything since unless Ricciardi either makes the playoffs or comes close he is gone. That he isn’t even contemplating it tells me that 99% sure there is collusion.

by pedrophile on Jun 20, 2008 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, rebuild!

That money that you think is getting freed up by AJ leaving and Thomas’ contract off the books is quickly going to get swallowed up by massive raises to Wells, Rios, and Halladay (who have backloaded contracts). The problem is threefold:

1) Poor farm system (which takes considerable amount of time to turn around)
2) Too much money tied up to players who don’t deserve it (caused by giving extensions to players coming off career years). The Jays are right at their payroll limit so the roster can’t be transformed that much. The Jays are at least 2 big bats away from seriously competing and there’s no way for them to get that.
3) The Yankees ($80+M to spend), Red Sox (well run and deep farm system), and Rays (good now, core locked up, and still haven’t brought everyone up from the famr)are much better teams right now and for say the next 5+yrs. So, you are really wasting you’re wasting your assets and you’re going to need to rebuild anyways. Take Wells and Rios as examples, their values took a big time dip after signing those extensions.

Besides, who says you can’t trade good pitching?!? The A’s dealt 2/3 of their Big 3 when they had the best staff in the game at the time. Teams are willing to pay a premium for good young talent.

And from listening to the Jays GM and President, there is no way their considering Bonds. The excuse that they’ll give is that they don’t want the distration, but the real reason is that Selig doesn’t want Bonds back in the game and the Jays have shown themselves to be completely loyal to Bud (e.g. don’t go over slot in the draft).

by parrot11 on Jun 20, 2008 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs