Hanley Ramirez vs. Ryan Braun

by Ian Stewart on Apr 14, 2008 5:26 PM EDT

Hey guys,

Who would you take in the long run? Hanley or Braun? Not talking about fantasy. This has nothing to do with fantasy baseball, something I personally have zero interest in.

Both profile pretty well. Hanley can hit for pretty solid power. Braun edges him in that category. Hanley easily dominates Braun on speed, however Braun is not fast. Not even going to go into defense.

Who has the higher ceiling long term? When all is said and done, who's career numbers will look better? It's kind of crazy for me to think that Hanley is younger than Braun by about a month.

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Hanley

by a mile.

by Galt on Apr 14, 2008 5:46 PM EDT reply actions

Good Question

I'll take Hanley in the short run. Even though he isn't a very good SS, most people seem to think he can play CF well so he should end up somewhere in the middle of the diamond. He wont hit as many HR as Braun but I think that his speed will make up for the diff. in power. Other numbers shouldn't be too different.

In the long run, I'd rather have Braun. I tend think he'll age better as speed is usually the first tool to go and Hanley has already had some chronic shoulder issues. In other words, I think Hanley will have a better peak but Braun's peak will be longer...

In other words, it's pretty close...

by Dfarth on Apr 14, 2008 5:50 PM EDT reply actions

Hanley

Speed is usually the first to go, but the kid is in his early 20's - his speed isn't going anywhere for a long time.

While he's not a great SS, he still provides much more defensive value than Braun, who is just a butcher in the field. Hanley will probably move off SS to an OF position, probably CF, and should be above average there.

Finally, I'm just not a huge believer in Braun. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good young player, but he played over his head last year.

by deezle on Apr 14, 2008 6:31 PM EDT reply actions

Wasn't a lot of Braun's success last year driven by a fluky BABIP? I'll take Hanley.

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by groug on Apr 14, 2008 6:56 PM EDT reply actions

I'm going Braun (unless)

Hanley is one of the best young offensive talents in the majors, no question, but Braun is no slouch. If your talking pure baseball, not fantasy related, then you have to question defense and Hanley is just as bad at SS as Braun was at 3b, but SS is more of a premium position. I feel fairly upbeat that Braun will be at least average, if not slightly above average, defensively in LF. The fact is you just can't have someone that bad at SS in the majors, hence why I'm choosing Braun.

Now, for my "unless", if Hanley moves to the OF then I would probably flop on my choice.

by scstrato on Apr 14, 2008 7:57 PM EDT reply actions

asdf

If the question is “who’s the better player,” then you should consider Hanley (and Braun) as playing the positions at which you think they would have the most value. Management’s less than optimal use of them, doesn’t make them worse players.

“Who will have a more valuable 2008 MLB season” is a different question, but I don’t think that’s what the original poster was asking.

and boom goes the dynamite.

by Mean Dean on Apr 15, 2008 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Actually

I’m afraid I have to disagree with you on this one. “Managements less than optimal use” of a player DOES make them worse players and Hanley is the perfect example. If he were playing a less valuable defensive position he wouldn’t have as many opportunities to allow so many extra outs or runners to score, however you care to look at it. Forcing your pitcher to make 4 outs in an inning is a serious negative and takes away from the players overall value to the team, at least in my opinion.

Since the Marlins have shown NO evidence whatsoever that they are intending on moving Hanley I based my choice on theory they will remain at their current positions. In my mind this makes Braun the better long term “Baseball” player.

by scstrato on Apr 15, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions

hanley

braun just doesn't have me sold yet, his plate discipline isn't that good. small sample but 0 BB, 11k's this year

by uwbadger on Apr 14, 2008 8:09 PM EDT reply actions

favorite

Can you really say that one will be better than the other at this point?
You have to love both of these young exciting guys. Barring injury, it may take a few years to sort out who's actually going to post better career numbers.
They both have a ton of potential and are exceptional players.
Flip a coin...

Ripken.....thanks for the memories...

by bodyiq on Apr 14, 2008 8:26 PM EDT reply actions

Massive mancrush on Hanley

If he played in NYC, they'd already have renamed the game Hanleyball.

by b1leper on Apr 14, 2008 10:09 PM EDT reply actions

LOL

funny but true.

by deezle on Apr 14, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Hanley and it's not even close

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by thejd44 on Apr 14, 2008 11:28 PM EDT reply actions

yup

by daveh33 on Apr 15, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions

Sorry

but you clearly haven't taken into account the amount of runs Hanley will allow by his subpar defense. Do the analysis then think again!

by scstrato on Apr 15, 2008 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions

well

how many runs did braun add(or lose) by his terrible 3b play? How valuable is his lf play?

Carlos Quentin's time has arrived.

by Team Moneyball on Apr 15, 2008 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions

eh

watch Hanley on D, he’s not nearly as bad as he’s made out to be

FutureFish.org

by Ramp on Apr 15, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

really

First of all the poster is pointedly ignoring D. Which seems to be your problem with Hanley. And on top of that it is NOT Hanleys fault he is at SS. No-one would say ARod is a horrible catcher if the Yankees put him there. They would just complain about the bad decision to put him there.

Hanley will be a much better player on D. Braun is ruthless.

by pedrophile on Apr 16, 2008 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions

But that's my point

If you are valuing them as overall baseball players (excluding fantasy value) you HAVE to consider D, at least in my book. I would not argue with you that Hanley is better offensively than Braun, that would be silly. BUT, I also don’t think it’s as “cut and dry” as the above made it out to be.

I will also agree that Hanley has the potential to get better defensively. I personally don’t think it will happen but I can’t say for sure it won’t. Your point about A-Rod is understood and I agree it’s not Hanley’s fault that he plays SS. But the fact is he IS a shortstop and I believe his subpar defense detracts from his MLB value.

by scstrato on Apr 16, 2008 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions

except

If you are valuing them as overall baseball players—> is totally wrong and ignoring the posters wishes. We are not valuing them as overall baseball players. If you were your points would be valid. But we are not. So they aren’t.

by pedrophile on Apr 17, 2008 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Fair enough

I guess to each his own. That’s the way I read, or interpretted, his questions.

So is it fair to say the overall offensive winner is Hanley, but the overall “baseball” player is Braun?

by scstrato on Apr 18, 2008 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions

yeah

I’d agree with you there.

I do however think if Florida moves him to CF quickly and IF he adjusts to the position change he could be a stud player. He’d then have to be considered as one of the top players in the league.

by pedrophile on Apr 18, 2008 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions