Noah Lowry

by rothe on Mar 4, 2008 1:10 PM EST Comment 23 comments

Walked 9 guys in an inning and a third yesterday. 7 in the 1st inning, came back out to start the second inning and walked the first two guys before getting the hook.

Steve Blass or early spring?

Other news: Favre retires, I have a monster dong, and the dow is geting pounded again.

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Lowry

I don't mean to speculate, and I have absolutely nothing to found this opinion on other than my own observation, but... Upon hearing the news, it was my first inclination to think that Mr.Lowry may need to have an appointment with Dr.Andrews.

by GuyinNY on Mar 4, 2008 1:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Erin Andrews got her Ph.D?

by PaulThomas on Mar 4, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

she can play Dr anytime

as far as I am concerned

classy move Belichek...Quitter

by jrose643 on Mar 4, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My 1st thought too

That would suck.

Although the fact that the Giants let him go back out there for the second hopefully means he wasn't feeling any pain.

Let's see what happens with his next start...

by Yakker on Mar 4, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

More like

Dr. Phil...

it's one thing to take nothing into ST stats.. but if it's beyond ugly like this it raises some seirous eyebrow

He also had like 4 WP and sailed a pickoff throw into the seats that game... that's just not good to say the least

by RollingWave on Mar 4, 2008 1:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I Think He's Injured

When Lowry came out of his last start in 2007, he was sailing pitches to. It was like he just suddenly lost the ability to control them in the middle of the game. He shook his hand like if felt numb or something and kind of rubbed the 4'th and 5th fingers of his left hand. That just happens to be in the distribution of the ulnar nerve, and sure enough, he was held out the rest of the season with a UCL strain. There were even whispers of possible TJ then.

My theory is that he still has ulnar nerve damage and can't feel or grip the ball properly. This is supported by Bochy's statement yesterday.

Assuming Lowry is out for an extended period, this creates an interesting competition for another starter spot.

Kevin Correia solidified his spot with a strong outing yesterday. I would think the contenders to replace Lowry would be Pat Misch and Jonathan Sanchez. Sanchez has more upside, but Misch may be more ready right now. Another possibility is Brad Hennessey moving out of the bullpen creating openings for Erick Threets and/or Merkin Valdez and/or Jose Capellan, the rule 5 pickup.

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 4, 2008 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I would actually be less worried

if this injury is physical.... but it seems mental.. thats just bad

by RollingWave on Mar 4, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Evidence?

What evidence do you have to say that it's all mental?

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 4, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Noah Lowry

Good stuff, Dr. A quick question: The Giants quickly stated that Noah's original injury was a back injury -- before changing it to an oblique injury. Didn't it look like a side injury to you right away?

And by the way, it was very nice to hear a doctor's opinion on Noah's injury here.

by sharksrog on Mar 4, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not An Orthopedist....

so don't take my word as gospel. Just putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5.

Just to clarify.....Noah's Oblique injury was in 2006. The injury at he end of last year definitely involved his elbow.

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 4, 2008 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My Question

I realize that as a doctor it could be difficult for you to even comment on Noah's injury, but my question was whether you as a baseball fan thought Noah's injury appeared from the TV screen to be to his back or to his side?

He reached for his side, and on another board I posted that it looked to be a side injury, not a back injury as first reported. I'm thinking that with your training, you would have been far more likely than I to correctly diagnosis an injury as a baseball fan.

By the way, what prompted my comment on that board was when one of the posters said that it was a back injury and that we didn't have to worry about it.

Turns out he was wrong on both counts. And Dave Righetti just said that Noah may have a physical problem right now.

by sharksrog on Mar 4, 2008 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Back? Side? Wrist? Elbow? Ulnar Nerve?

Not sure which incident you are talking about, Shark. I personally haven't heard anything about a back injury.

Noah pulled an oblique muscle early in 2006. I saw that game on TV and it was quite obviously his side that was bothering him. I don't remember if the announcer said anything about his back or not.

Near the end of last season, he came out after suddenly losing control, similar to what we are seeing now. It appeared from watching TV that his hand, specifically his 4'th and 5'th fingers, were bothering him. The subsequent announcement was that he had a UCL strain in the elbow, an injury that often also involves the ulnar nerve which supplies the 4'th and 5'th fingers.

That was the last time Noah pitched before this spring. The wildness he is experiencing now seems to be similar to what he experienced at the end of last year. Bochy said yesterday that Lowry complained that he couldn't feel the ball. The announcement today is that he has tendonitis in his wrist. Tendonitis could also explain his wildness if it was painful to grip the ball, but it wouldn't explain a loss of sensation.

That's all the information I have and all the speculation I can muster. Hope that helps.

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 4, 2008 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

Thanks, Dr. You were right on target about the injury I was referring to, which was the original one to Noah, in his first regular season start of 2007.

I completely concur with you that the injury appeared to be to his side, but when the preliminary report came in (both on the telecast and in the paper), it was referred to as a back injury.

Noah's problems keep seeming to get more mysterious rather than less so. I wish the Giants had traded him at least year's trade deadline (or before). Wouldn't you agree it appeared at that time that his value was as high as it would ever be again?

by sharksrog on Mar 5, 2008 2:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Deadline Trading

The Giants have missed many a trade deadline opportunity in the last 3 years. In retrospect, it would have been a good time to trade Lowry, but I have to say I've been a big fan of his and probably wouldn't have been happy about it at the time. It's very painful for me to see what's happening to him now. Hope it's just some tendonitis and they can get it settled down quickly with anti-inflammatories and therapy. I have to say, though, that tendonitis can be a real SOB. Seems like a trivial problem, and in a way it is, but it can be real hard to get rid of.

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 5, 2008 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't have been unhappy

I wouldn't have been at all unhappy to see Noah Lowry traded at last year's trade deadline. In fact, I would have been elated, much as I was when the Giants were somehow able to trade Matt Morris, another pitcher who should have been traded early last season when he value was higher.

I wasn't among the many who were unhappy when Brian Sabean traded Matt Williams in his Brian's first deal as GM. Matt was probably my favorite player, but my late dad -- who died about three months before Brian became general manager -- had had great confidence in Brian and was looking forward to Brian's replacing the Mighty Quinn.

I figured if my dad had confidence in Brian, I had confidence in him, as well. And I retained that high level of confidence for a long time, really beginning to doubt it only when Brian non-tendered A.J. Pierzynski and just one year after trading for A.J. had absolutely nothing (aside from painful memories) left for Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano and Boof (No Nickname Needed) Bonser.

by sharksrog on Mar 5, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Depends

I guess it all depends on what we would have gotten for Noah Lowry in a trade at that time, which of course we will never know.

It sounds like you have the same criticism of the AJ trade as I. I'm not upset that he made the trade per se. I'm also not upset that AJ was non-tendered, although I think he should have been. The problem I have the The Trade is that by lowballing AJ and forcing him into arbitration, Brian Sabean showed that he didn't really believe in the trade himself, at least not enough to back it up by doing what it took to get AJ into a long term deal from the get-go.

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 5, 2008 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good analysis

As usual, good analysis there, Dr. While I don't see the A.J. trade as the beginning of the end (the loss of several important veterans after the 2002 season or even the Giants' inability by that time to substantially improve the poor farm system Brian Sabean inherited would seem to me to have preceded the A.J. trade for this "honor", certainly that deal stands symbolic to most Giants fans of the beginning of the present downward trend.

by sharksrog on Mar 5, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

of course

He did walk as many as he struck out last year (87 in 156 IP - yuck)

His walks per month were:
April - 16
May - 15
June - 19
July - 19
August - 18

which is why I'm not sure I buy that you can attribute his control troubles only to a potential injury. Unless he was hiding it all year. I'm also surprised the control troubles are coming as news since he's had issues with the BB for quite some time now.

http://rswanzey.blogspot.com

by rswanzey on Mar 4, 2008 4:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

This Is Different

Yeah, he walked too many batters, but he wasn't wild by any stretch. He was pitching one of his better games when all of a sudden, right in the middle of an inning, he started sailing them to the backstop. He was shaking his hand like somebody hit his "funny bone". That was his last game last year. They said it was his elbow and there was talk of TJ. What's going on now appears to be a continuation of that event.

by DrBGiantsfan on Mar 4, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I see

I only saw Lowry pitch once or twice earlier in the season - that sounds pretty damn alarming, you're right. The only point of what I posted was to point out the irony that Rotoworld's comment inferred that he might be hurt because they had seen his walk totals.

http://rswanzey.blogspot.com

by rswanzey on Mar 4, 2008 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

are you daft?

Walking 18 per month and having a 1/1 K/BB and throwing 18 or 24 (or whatever it was) straight balls and some wild pitches are not AT ALL the same thing.

One is "bad control" the other is the loss of the ability to throw a baseball

by nms on Mar 4, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

are you literate?

I specifically said that I don't believe you can contribute his control issues ONLY to a potential injury. Of course I know that there is a difference. Thank you for being a jackass for absolutely no reason.

http://rswanzey.blogspot.com

by rswanzey on Mar 4, 2008 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It may be coincidence

It may be only coincidence, but since Noah Lowry suffered his oblique injury in his first start of 2006, he hasn't been the same pitcher.

Yes, he had a very good ERA through nearly three quarters of last season, but more than anything else that appeared to be the result of good luck.

Noah benefitted from far more double plays last season, and the one good thing that he did was throw more ground balls. But not so many more that he should have been among the league leaders in DP's induced.

I felt before the trade deadline last season that Noah's trade value was unlikely to ever be higher. To be honest, I didn't realize just how quickly it would plummet.

by sharksrog on Mar 4, 2008 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs