Lincecum from Behind
Sorry about the title. I just wanted to see if you were paying attention. :)
One of our posters asked how Tim Lincecum pitched from behind. Here is how he fared last season:
BA SLG K BB
After 1-0 .236 .377 53 49
After 2-0 .311 .492 13 35
After 2-1 .288 .442 28 24
After 3-0 .286 .286 3 29
After 3-1 .344 .562 7 30
After 3-2 .148 .241 23 27
Tim was still a pretty good pitcher after a first-pitch ball (as the opponents' battting average of only .236 would indicate), but once he got behind 2-0 he wasn't very effective. When he got behind 3-0, he mostly walked the batter -- although they didn't hit him well on the few occasions when he did come in.
Note that at 3-2, Tim walked slightly more than he struck out, but batters didn't hit him much at all (only a 148 batting average and a .241 SLG).
Looking at when Tim got ahead with his first pitch, batters hit only .211against him and slugged only .342. He went on to strike out 97 while walking only 16! Amazingly when he got two strikes on a batter, regardless of the number of balls involved, batters hit only .130 and slugged just .225 against Tim. He struck out 150 while walking just 27.
Once Tim got two strikes on a hitter last season, he may have been the best starting pitcher in baseball.
As a hitter, the key is to get ahead of Tim 2-0. For Tim, the key is throwing a first-pitch strike (which he has done much better this spring) and particularly getting two strikes on the hitter.
Last season Tim got two strikes on 311 batters that resulted in an at bat or a walk. He struck out 150 of them, or 48%. Only 64 of them reached base (or 21%). If Tim can maintain that level of dominance and improve his control just a bit, it will darn near be all over once Tim gets two strikes on a batter -- even at 3-2.
In Tim's great start Friday night, he didn't face a very strong lineup. Still, he didn't throw enough first-pitch strikes (just half of his 16 first pitches were strikes). And of the eight hitters he got behind with the first pitch, he went to 2-0 on five of them. But Tim clearly could throw a strike when he most needed it, walking only one of the four batters he got behind 3-2, while striking out the other three.
I know this will shock the regular readers here, but I am picking Tim as the NL's breakout player of the year. While the Giants are unlikely to score many runs for Tim (or any of their other pitchers), Tim has focused from when he was a small boy (and he was smaller than most!) on pitching well REGARDLESS of the score.
Incidentally, there is a baseball card of the young Tim (14, I believe) that shows him at 4-foot-10 and 78 pounds. Tim has always been the little guy, which may be part of what has given him his competitive edge.
Brandon Morrow, who has had shoulder problems this spring, has been sent down by the Mariners. Seattle isn't looking too good for not having taken the hometown boy two summers ago. Instead they took a pitcher half a foot taller.
I think it is safe to say that if they could do it all over again, the Mariners would have stuck much closer to home. In fact, with the possible exception of Evan Longoria and the conceivable choice of the younger Clayton Kershaw, is there anyone who should have been drafted ahead of Tim?
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To answer your question.
There really isnt any good excuse either. Tim and brandon pitched in the same league and Tim struck out like, what, 100 more batters??
To be fair Morrow is a better pick than several others in the top ten but, like ive always said... not only should Tim have been the M's pick he should have been the TOP pick.
BTW, we are STILL waiting for that first sore arm by Mr. Lincecum fellas. Let me know when it happens ok?
Any Pitcher
Any pitcher can become injured. After not doing nearly as much throwing over the winter as usual, Tim strained his groin early spring training. He missed one start, throwing a bullpen instead. Had it been during the regular season, I doubt Tim would have missed the start, even as cautious as the Giants have (properly) been with him.
But, yes, Tim has yet to have an arm injury, even though scouts worried about it due to his small stature and violent delivery. I hate to criticize those scouts, but they failed to realize that "different" could be better, just as it could be worse. Tim's motion is indeed different, but it uses his entire body perhaps more than any pitcher in history. Pitching mechanics "expert" Will Carroll has even wondered aloud that if Tim is as successful as Will believes he will be, if other pitchers can be taught to pitch as Tim does.
Well, Tim's dad would certainly believe so. While Tim is by far his greatest product (in more ways than one), Chris has taught many young pitchers to use their bodies more completely. He has taken kids who have never been able to have pitching success before and made them into good pitchers. He taught Tim's older brother Sean the same method, and Sean might have been quite good as well. But Sean twice injured his right shoulder playing football, effectively ending his pitching career.
Ironically, while Tim's size hurt him, Sean is actually a physical specimen, much taller and more muscular than Tim (although Tim has tremendous strength for his lean frame).
Incidentally, Carroll said two winters ago that he would take Tim as his pitcher for the next ten years. This past winter he said he wouldn't trade Tim for any other pitcher in the game. Given that Will likely knows more about pitching mechanics than all the rest of us put together here (with the notable exception of Husker Bob), I would say that Tim's chance of avoiding injury is better that of than most pitchers.
When I lobbied John to move Tim above Phil Hughes and Homer Bailey as his top pitching prospects of last winter, one of the points I made was that both Phil and Homer had missed time due to injury, while Tim had yet to have even a sore arm (nor use ice) despite having thrown many more pitches than either of the two younger pitchers. Then last season both Phil and Homer missed time due to injury, while Tim threw over 175 healthy innings.
My guess is that John now ranks Tim above Homer (John?), although I wouldn't be critical if he still ranks the younger Hughes higher. I think that would be wrong, but an opinion that could be defended. I think it now would be pretty tough to form a logical argument for Bailey over Lincecum, despite their two years' age differential.
I was glad the Giants pulled Tim after only 67 pitches Friday night. I'm sure they would liked to have seen him come closer to the 96 he threw in his previous six-inning outing, but there was a light rain throughout Tim's outing on Friday. 67 pitches were just fine -- particularly given that they turned out so well.
This is a generalization, but I would say that when Tims' stuff is exploding, he gets lots of strikeouts and air outs. When his control is particularly on, he gets many more ground outs. That doesn't mean he doesn't still strike out a considerable number, however. Remember, last season Tim struck out 97 while yielding only 16 walks when he got his first pitch over. And once he got two strikes on batters, they hit a paltry .130 against him, as he struck out nearly half the batters he got two strikes on.
Tim's 30.9% strikeout rate in his brief career as a minor leaguer was the highest since that figure began being measured a decade ago. My point is that Tim is already darn good -- and that his ceiling could be nearly off the charts.
Which pitcher would YOU rather have than Tim? I can think of many guys for whom an argument could be made. But I can't think of a single pitcher one could conclusively say is a better long-term prospect than Tim.
Oh, and should he indeed stay healthy, he has good genes. His dad was clocked at 88 mph. Not that that is a great major league fastball (in fact it is likely a bit below average). But then again, Chris was 55 years old at the time.
Could that be why Tim wears number 55? :)
#'s
He prolly wears 55 because that's what Mike Murphy gave him, and being a good rookie, he shut up and took it. Cain did the same thing with 43, and only after Moises Alou left did he ask for 18. Maybe next year Tim will ask for a new number, but I think the 55 suits him, plus it makes him look bigger than he is.
(By the way, does it bug anyone else that the Giants are very good - maybe too good - at recycling jersey numbers?)
The only non-Cy Young winning pitcher who's relatively young I think I'd rather have is Cain. I like his demeanor, and while his stuff isn't as electric as Tim's at times, it's equally effective, and it doesn't appear that his delivery is as "Max Effort" as Tims, not that throwing 95 is easy. Naturally, I'm biased...
Tim Lincecum is Baseball's Chuck Norris
55
I was at Lincecum's MLB debut vs. Philly in SF. Tim's line for the day was 4.1 IP, 5 R, 5 H, 5 BB, 5 SO. He had already been roughed up but I so badly wanted him to finish the 5th inning so his line would have been all fives. He also threw 53 strikes that day. So close.
Wow!
Wow, Cainer! You taught me something I didn't know about Tim Lincecum. Tim had some great moments and some poor ones in that debut. But he was much better in his next few starts before running into all KINDS of trouble in June.
In July he could have been the NL Pitcher of the Month, having almost identical stats to Carlos Zambrano, who did win the award. And after pitching a fabulous eight inning, two-hitter against the Cubs in late August, he gave up three hits on five pitches (mistakenly all fastballs) in the ninth.
Tim was quite good last season, probably a bit better than his 4.00 ERA would indicate. But I feel he has merely scratched the surface. Let's see how he starts of his second regular season as a major leaguer.
hi Sharks
BA SLG K BB
After 1-0 .236 .377 53 49
After 2-0 .311 .492 13 35
After 2-1 .288 .442 28 24
After 3-0 .286 .286 3 29
After 3-1 .344 .562 7 30
After 3-2 .148 .241 23 27
My take on this:
First of all it would be easier if these numbers were compared to some league average. Unfortunately I don't have this info.
1-0 -> very good results. Excellent
2-0 -> poor results. But probably on par with the rest of the league
2-1 -> see below
3-0 -> Quite good considering.
3-1 -> see below
3-2 -> Very good
I think the numbers are good. My concern is with the 2-1 and 3-1 counts.
Personally I believe when a pitcher is more of a two pitch pitcher these are the counts they struggle on. And when the pitcher brings the 3rd pitch in more often they become more proficient on these counts.
Tim had three
Tim had three very good pitches last season, although it took Bengie Molina a long time to catch on to the curve and especially the change, the latter of which was actually Tim's most effective pitch last season. I really haven't seen him throw the slider much (at least that I have been able to detect), although gameday had him throwing a handful (and nary a curve) in his last exhibition start.
I still think the most important pitch for Tim is strike one, with the second-most important being strike two. If Tim's first pitch is a strike, he doesn't walk many. And if he gets two strikes on a batter, regardless of the number of balls, he is almost even money to strike the guy out.
If his new slider is a strikeout pitch as he believes, he might become BETTER than even money in that situation. Gameday had five of his strikeouts on change ups, three on fastballs and one on a slider in his last outing. Last season Tim got a lot of strikeouts with his hammer curve, although I felt the size of the hammer declined toward the end of the season.

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