True or False: Homer Bailey
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False
By definition, a prospect is a young player with a possibility of future success.
In this case, Bailey has a legitimate shot at being an ace one day in the Show mainly because of his nasty stuff. There aren't many players in the minor league system to have comparable assets. Hence, Bailey is one of baseball's top prospects.
Nevertheless, nothing is perfect in this world, so is his command. It might be a problem down the stretch.
Let's keep in mind that the kid is close to be ready to play in the majors at 21. He's still a ways off his prime years.
That's why I think most prospectors are right to have Bailey on their short list.
by Mr. Mabesoon on Mar 28, 2008 8:58 AM EDT 0 recs
Very Shrewd Observation
I don't know how much evaluators have knocked Homer down, but I think your comment here shows a ve4ry shrewd insight. I thought Homer was a bit overrated a year ago (and told John so, indirectly). I would think he deserves to be knocked down from the elite to the very good prospect list -- probably the very, VERY good prospect list.
I thought his lack of injury and lack of command and domination last season knocked him from the elite. But I can tell you that I wish the Giants had him! :)
by sharksrog on
Mar 29, 2008 1:32 AM EDT
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True
though I don't think any team would mind to have him. The debates of Bailey or Hughes now look silly.
--http://yankeesfuture.wordpress.com Bobby Mcnally (alias) "Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve."--Napoleon Hall
by bobbymcnally on Mar 28, 2008 10:20 AM EDT 0 recs
Why silly?
Hughes hasn't exactly shown anything yet either.
by Brian B on
Mar 31, 2008 11:08 PM EDT
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False
If the statement was "prospect evaluators overrateD Homer Bailey" I'd give you a "true"
But I think Bailey's become so overrated that he's underrated - the backlash is too strong for his underlying ability and production
by Locke000 on Mar 28, 2008 10:51 AM EDT 0 recs
+1
Exactly what I was thinking
FJM, down in the trenches doing the Lord's work.
by zdavis2512 on
Mar 28, 2008 11:49 PM EDT
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True
Why is Johnny Cueto rated significantly behind Bailey everywhere? If they were neck and neck and Bailey were ahead, that's one thing. The BA list with Bailey top 10 and Cueto mid 30s comes to mind as being particularly annoying to me. That said, I do agree with the poster above that some of the backlash against Bailey is excessive.
http://rswanzey.blogspot.com
by rswanzey on Mar 28, 2008 11:17 AM EDT 0 recs
True
I never liked him as much as most, and I'm more confident about that now than I was a year ago
-1 and only member of the Jed Lowrie fan club!
by Jgaztambide on Mar 28, 2008 11:18 AM EDT 0 recs
False
The guy has ace level stuff, and never showed control or command problems before last year. After an "off" 2007, we will see how he plays in 2008. But he is a dominant AAA april from starting the hype machine all over again.
"You also must admit, that outside of the facts, I made a compelling argument!"
by jbluestone on Mar 28, 2008 11:22 AM EDT 0 recs
True
You want to about how silly the Bailey or Hughes debates look. Take into account Gallardo was considered lower tier. My money is on Gallardo outshining them both the next couple of years for sure. Bailey is a good prospect, but needs to show some poise and control in my opinion.
by derrikhaley on Mar 28, 2008 12:15 PM EDT 0 recs
I like
I like Gallardo better than Bailey -- but I'm not quite so sure about liking him better than Hughes. To me that one is quite close. I do suspect that if I did further analysis, it would favor Gallardo slightly. But, DARN, I'd love to have EITHER of them.
by sharksrog on
Mar 29, 2008 1:34 AM EDT
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well..
..I picked Bailey on John's 'most overrated pitching prospect' thread last year, so I incline towards true. As I said last year, though, only half of 'overrated' is potential; the other half is rating.
On ratings, BA has Bailey #9. Overall. BP has him #9 as well. Most lists have him top-10. See http://blog.baseballdigestdaily.com/_attachments/3602367/2007-2008%20Top%20Prospect%20Lists%20-%20March%2025,%202008.xls
Some backlash, that.
On performance, he is very good, very young. His stuff is quite nice, given age, but in a world with Clayton Kershaw making jaws drop, I don't see him as quite qualifying for 'nasty', not yet.
As for 'never showed control or command problems before last year,' that's flat-out wrong. He hasn't shown good control at any level. The best he's managed in pro ball -- ever -- was an 8% walk rate, in his stop in high A in 2006. He's been above 10% at every other level, including the same 14% rate in low A in 2005 he showed in the majors last year.
No matter the stuff, pitchers with walk rates over 10% are risky, and for every Randy Johnson that finally puts it together and reels off a string of Cy Youngs, there are two dozen Neighborgall-manques who'll probably never throw enough strikes to be really successful.
True, for the second year in a row.
by wcw on Mar 28, 2008 12:34 PM EDT 0 recs
true...
When he's on, his stuff is excellent, but there are a lot of red flags with him. His numbers don't match his hype. And while a lot of his velocity/command issues were blamed on a groin injury, I've seen video of him before that injury that looked like he lost a lot of oomph on his fastball.
There are concerns about his mental make-up as well...he's still a very good prospect with a lot of upside, but it is a stretch to say he is top-10 overall. I know a good chunk of players I would rather have than Bailey.
www.baseball-intellect.com
by NovaO on Mar 28, 2008 1:48 PM EDT 0 recs
False
Bailey certainly isn't the most 'polished' pitching prospect in baseball thats for sure. He is however a 21 year old pitcher who can throw in the upper 90s (hit 97 in his final start with the Reds in ST), has a hammer curve and a change up that at times this spring has looked pretty good (ask Jorge Posada how much he liked it). He also has shown a slider this spring and is working on a cut fastball as well. To top that all off, the Reds have been working on his mechanics since his groin injury last June (well since he came back).
If it were the most ready prospects, it would be one answer, but if we are asking about future potential in the major leagues.... then he is absolutely not overrated.
http://www.redsminorleagues.com and http://www.RedsPitchFX.com
by dougdirt on Mar 28, 2008 2:55 PM EDT 0 recs
interesting
didn't know he was working on a cut fastball...
by daveh33 on
Mar 28, 2008 4:53 PM EDT
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Yeah
He has been working with it all spring. That is one of the reasons his 'FB' has been in the 89-92 MPH range. Its not his 4 seam fastball, it has been the cutter he has been working on. Most people haven't noticed that though and are talking about 'a loss in velocity', but its just not really true.
http://www.redsminorleagues.com and http://www.RedsPitchFX.com
by dougdirt on
Mar 28, 2008 10:12 PM EDT
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haha
i was wondering where people were getting this 'loss in velocity' thing... its like it almost become hip to consider Homer over-rated nowadays... sigh
by daveh33 on
Mar 29, 2008 1:57 AM EDT
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False
Good job in pointing out the cutter, Dougdirt. The only concern I have about him is some rumblings of him not being very coachable within the organization...
I'm no commie, but the Reds shall be the best again!
by RedHopeful on
Mar 29, 2008 7:27 PM EDT
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Bailey
I think if the Reds had actual coaches rather than 'the guy who will take the least amount of money' then Bailey may have a better reputation as a listener..... from what I hear from outside the organization is that when someone who actually knows what they are talking about, Bailey is all ears. However when its someone who doesn't know a lot, Bailey gets the 'he doesn't listen' stuff. All spring the reports were that he has been all ears and seeking out the help of Mario Soto. That doesn't sound like someone who isn't uncoachable, just someone who knows BS when he hears it.
http://www.redsminorleagues.com and http://www.RedsPitchFX.com
by dougdirt on
Mar 29, 2008 10:34 PM EDT
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True
and this is coming from a Reds fan. His stuff is nasty, but also a bit inconsistent. There will be times he'll come in and max out at 94 on the fastball, and he's had some trouble throwing his curve consistently tight and for strikes. His change has shown flashes of being an awesome pitch, but it's still very inconsistent. Some believe he's tipping his pitches and that's why he's getting beat up in the majors.
He's also had some difficulty pitching from the stretch and is throwing entirely too many pitches, even in games where his control isn't bad.
His potential is still outstanding, and he has a definite future in the majors, but I can't help but think it's a whole lot more likely he ends up as a healthier, perhaps slightly less potent AJ Burnett, rather than the true ace a lot of people are expecting of him. Not that I'd be unhappy with another AJ Burnett, but I have a feeling Bailey will always be a frustrating talent who seems that he should be able to do a bit more than he does. He's definitely still got time on his side, and if the Reds can avoid jerking him around, I think he'll be able to figure it out and still become a very good pitcher.
by Geki on Mar 28, 2008 3:03 PM EDT 0 recs
CRAZYNESS
I forgot who wrote it. But this "prospect thing" that we all do. You know the process where we follow prospects and project their minor league performance and tools into what they could be as a big leaguer? Someone here wrote that "prospecting has a lifetime of 4 or 5 years, not 4 or 5 days" to Bravesin07.
It might have been a year, maybe a year and a half, but Bailey is 21-22. He has so much projectability in front of him. Let the kid learn how to pitch before we take 45.3 IP to the bank.
I think we are being insane if we think that he is a bust or overrated. He certainly has one of the best arms in the minor leagues, he just needs some seasoning.
Remember: baseball guys... baseball...
by Metty5 on Mar 28, 2008 5:06 PM EDT 0 recs
I think that was slurve
But I do think that there's a difference between writing him off and saying he was overrated. I think that he needs to get over his attitude issues (there's been a lot of stuff here and at BP at least about him not listening to coaches), and until then, he should be a tad lower on prospect lists. But you're right- the age thing is important. And in the end is a rank of #10 on prospect lists instead of #3 a big difference?
by demondeaconsbaseball on
Mar 28, 2008 10:28 PM EDT
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Bailey not listening
I want to know when these quotes by people were made..... Buster Olney made a point to bring it up about Bailey and then quoted someone.... of course, it was the exact same quote he used last year. This year Bailey has been all ears according to all reports coming out of ST. I think its been really overblown lately
http://www.redsminorleagues.com and http://www.RedsPitchFX.com
by dougdirt on
Mar 29, 2008 12:25 AM EDT
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FALSE
Is name is Homer......D'oh@$%@
KFC
"It's not like the end of the world or something. Why should we panic?"
-- Manny being Manny
by KFC on Mar 28, 2008 8:54 PM EDT 0 recs
False
I think scouts are right on with Bailey but I worry that he hasn't 'learned' how to pitch yet. He is simply throwing. Once he learns (if I suppose), all the 'stuff' that scouts were talking up will be out on the table.
by bbdbrandon on Mar 30, 2008 3:16 PM EDT 0 recs
TBD
I live near Chattanooga, Tennessee where Homer Bailey pitched last year for part of the summer. I drafted Homer 2 years ago in my fantasy keeper leagues minor league draft. I stored him in my minors and just tracked his progress, knowing on his way to the bigs he would make a stop in Chattanooga to pitch for the Lookouts. I was in Chattanooga last summer having drinks and listen to music in a downtown establishment after Lookouts game. I met my cousin at this water hole. I sat down and about 20 minutes in my cousin introduces me to someone I was sitting next to. He says, "This is Homer". At first, I didn't even pay it any mind. A couple of seconds later I realize I am sitting next to Homer Bailey, a lanky, tall kid. I introduced myself and we talked briefly. My cousin had met him before around Chattanooga. They are both outdoorsmen, hunting and fishing. Homer invited us to see a couple of his starts leaving tickets for us. The times I saw him pitch, I was impressed. He seemed very composed for a 20 year at the time. His fastball was consistantly in the mid-90. His fastball was fastest at the end of his outing, topping out at 96.
One game in particular stood out. The Lookouts were playing the West Tennessee Diamond Jaxx. It was the top of the second. Homer starts his wind up when the batter steps out on him. The next pitch was placed in the batters ear hole. The umpire proceeded to warn both benches. I would ask Bailey later if that was on purpose, he did not comment. After the warnings are issued, Homer goes on to retire the side. Bottom of the second, Bailey is due up second. He digs in and the first pitch is behind him. The ump ejects the pitcher and his manager. Homer strikes out. Homer Bailey went on to pitch 6 strong innings giving up 1 hit, 4 Ks, 3 BB and 1 HBP. The game was tied at 0 and he got a no decision for the game.
I say it is to be determined whether he is overrated or not. I think he still has some developing to do. So, the fact that he starts the season in the minors doesn't really effect his rating. Let's face it. When he does make it to the majors he will be pitching in a park that doesn't favor any kind of pitcher at all. Why not let him get some more experience in the minors before he gets thrown into a ball park that can destroy even the most seasoned veterans and a team that will struggle to be 500 this year. We will see if the hype for Johnny Cueto is still as it is now after he has a couple of Great American starts.
paw75
by paw75 on Apr 1, 2008 10:32 PM EDT 0 recs







