Community Prospect List: #95
by the pinstripes on Dec 9, 2008 10:42 AM EST
72 comments
After 398 votes the winner of the poll is Todd Frazier with 15% of the vote. Vincent Mazzaro placed second with 13%. Cole Rohrbough(5%), Sean West(5%), Ethan Martin(5%), Beau Mills(5%), David Cooper(4%) & Dominic Brown(3%) will be removed from the poll because they fell below the 7% cutoff. Ryan Tucker, Brad Holt, Scott Elbert, Christopher Marrero, Michael Taylor, Jeff Niemann & Andrew Lambo will be added to the poll.
1. MATT WIETERS - C (Baltimore)
2. DAVID PRICE - SP (Tampa Bay)
3. JASON HEYWARD - OF (Atlanta)
4. TRAVIS SNIDER - OF (Toronto)
5. MADISON BUMGARNER - SP (San Francisco)
6. COLBY RASMUS - OF (St. Louis)
7. CAMERON MAYBIN - OF (Florida)
8. TREVOR CAHILL - SP (Oakland)
9. NEFTALI FELIZ - SP (Texas)
10. MATT LAPORTA - 1B/OF/DH (Cleveland)
11. MIKE MOUSTAKAS - 3B (Kansas City)
12. TIM ALDERSON - SP (San Francisco)
13. PEDRO ALVAREZ - 3B (Pittsburgh)
14. RICK PORCELLO - SP (Detroit)
15. DEXTER FOWLER - OF (Colorado)
16. BRETT ANDERSON - SP (Oakland)*
17. DEREK HOLLAND - SP (Texas)
18. ANDREW McCUTCHEN - OF (Pittsburgh)
19. BUSTER POSEY - C (San Francisco)
20. CHRIS TILLMAN - SP (Baltimore)
21. LARS ANDERSON - 1B (Boston)
22. JUSTIN SMOAK - 1B (Texas)
23. THOMAS HANSON - SP (Atlanta)
24. ELVIS ANDRUS - SS (Texas)
25. ANGEL VILLALONA - 1B (San Francisco)
26. JHOULYS CHACIN - SP (Colorado)
27. BRIAN MATUSZ - SP (Baltimore)
28. ERIC HOSMER - 1B (Kansas City)
29. TIM BECKHAM - SS (Tampa Bay)
30. MAX RAMIREZ - C/1B (Texas)
31. JARROD PARKER - SP (Arizona)
32. MICHAEL STANTON - OF (Florida)
33. MAT GAMEL - 3B (Milwaukee)
34. JESUS MONTERO - C (New York-AL)
35. BRETT WALLACE - 3B (St. Louis)
36. JORDAN SCHAFER - OF (Atlanta)
37. WADE DAVIS - SP (Tampa Bay)
38. LOGAN MORRISON - 1B (Florida)
39. CARLOS SANTANA - C (Cleveland)
40. FERNANDO MARTINEZ - OF (New York-NL)
41. JAMES McDONALD - SP (Los Angeles-NL)
42. JEREMY HELLICKSON - SP (Tampa Bay)
43. JOSH VITTERS - 3B (Chicago-NL)
44. YONDER ALONSO - 1B (Cincinnati)
45. TAYLOR TEAGARDEN - C (Texas)
46. FREDDIE FREEMAN - 1B (Atlanta)
47. GORDON BECKHAM - SS (Chicago-AL)
48. BRETT CECIL - SP (Toronto)
49. ALCIDES ESCOBAR - SS (Milwaukee)
50. JORDAN ZIMMERMANN - SP (Washington)
51. CHRIS CARTER - 1B/DH (Oakland)
52. CARLOS TRIUNFEL - SS (Seattle)
53. AUSTIN JACKSON - OF (New York-AL)
54. BEN REVERE - OF (Minnesota)
55. MICHAEL BOWDEN - SP (Boston)
56. TYLER FLOWERS - C (Atlanta)
57. ADRIAN CARDENAS - SS (Oakland)
58. REID BRIGNAC - SS (Tampa Bay)
59. JAKE ARRIETA - SP (Baltimore)
60. JORDAN WALDEN - SP (Los Angeles-AL)
61. MICHAEL MAIN - SP (Texas)
62. WILMER FLORES - SS (New York-NL)
63. MATT DOMINGUEZ - 3B (Florida)
64. MICHAEL SAUNDERS - OF (Seattle)
65. DESMOND JENNINGS - OF (Tampa Bay)
66. CARLOS CARRASCO - SP (Philadelphia)
67. AARON CUNNINGHAM - OF (Oakland)
68. J.P. ARENCIBIA - C (Toronto)
69. GIO GONZALEZ - SP (Oakland)
70. PHILLIPPE AUMONT - SP (Seattle)
71. JEFF SAMARDZIJA - SP/RP (Chicago-NL)
72. MICHAEL INOA - SP (Oakland)
73. AARON HICKS - OF (Minnesota)
74. JEREMY JEFFRESS - SP (Milwaukee)
75. ANGEL SALOME - C (Milwaukee)
76. DANIEL CORTES - SP (Kansas City)
77. GREG HALMAN - OF (Seattle)
78. JACOB McGEE - SP/RP (Tampa Bay)
79. KYLE BLANKS - 1B (San Diego)
80. MARTIN PEREZ - SP (Texas)
81. JULIO BORBON - OF (Texas)
82. NICHOLAS WEGLARZ - OF (Cleveland)
83. JAMES SIMMONS - SP (Oakland)
84. GORKYS HERNANDEZ - OF (Atlanta)
85. JOSE TABATA - OF (Pittsburgh)
86. JASON DONALD - SS (Philadelphia)
87. KYLE SKIPWORTH - C (Florida)
88. DARYL JONES - OF (St. Louis)
89. AARON POREDA - SP (Chicago-AL)
90. MICHAEL BURGESS - OF (Washington)
91. CHRIS PEREZ - RP (St. Louis)
92. NEFTALI SOTO - 3B (Cincinnati)
93. JONATHAN NIESE - SP (New York-NL)
94. TODD FRAZIER - SS/3B (Cincinnati)
CANDIDATES - Vincent Mazzaro, Nick Adenhart, Engel Beltre, Ivan DeJesus, Adam Miller, Ryan Tucker, Brad Holt, Scott Elbert, Christopher Marrero, Michael Taylor, Jeff Niemann & Andrew Lambo
TESTERS - Zach McAllister, Josh Reddick, Cedric Hunter(86-0%), Nick Barnese(87-2%), Matt Moore(88-1%), Danny Duffy(91-5%), Chris Coghlan(92-4%) & Jason Castro(92-2%), Eric Hurley(93-2%), Jose Ceda(93-0%), Nick Noonan(93-6%), Dellin Betances(93-6%), Tim Melville(93-3%), Kila Ka'Aihue(93-5%), Cole Rohrbough(94-5%), Sean West(94-5%), Ethan Martin(94-5%), Beau Mills(94-5%), David Cooper(94-4%) & Dominic Brown(94-3%)
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Beltre
And I am not a Rangers fan – I just like his stats. Time to get him on here.
by discndat on Dec 9, 2008 11:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Go Engel "Lil Mateo" Beltre
Sorry, I just like that Comp WAY to much…
by laxtonto on Dec 9, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
You are voting Beltre because of his stats? Really?
by aCone419 on Dec 9, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
In context of his league, his stats are actually pretty darn good. Remember how tilted towards the pitchers the Midwest league is.
That being said, he still needs to learn how to take a walk. However, given the toolset he possesses, it is tough not to vote for him here.
I voted Beltre here, and will vote Lambo next.
by guru4u on Dec 9, 2008 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
The MWL is definitely pitcher friendly, but a .700 OPS isn’t “pretty darn good” even there. For Clinton that would be about average. The only impressive stat is his age.
by aCone419 on Dec 9, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but
His OPS is severely drug down by the lack of walks. He actually hit .280, but only posted a .300 OBP with a .400 SLG (a .120 IsoP, which is good for league/age context).
by guru4u on Dec 9, 2008 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
?
Why is lack of walks a good thing?
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Dec 9, 2008 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DeJesus
Teams need middle infielders
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2008 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
I also voted DeJesus, though I also think Beltre, Melville, Moore would be fine selections here.
I’m not sure there’s that much daylight between DeJesus and Alcides Escobar, yet even if DeJesus gets selected here, there’s about a 50 notch difference on the list.
by gogotabata on Dec 9, 2008 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can anyone give some insight into his defensive ability
I think I remember reports saying his ability at SS is subpar at best right now. I like how he has improved on his bat and plate discipline as he went up. His bat right now does look very good for a middle infielder if he has good defense at one of those positions.
by tdot mariner fan on Dec 9, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ivan DeJesus
He’s supposed to be a good defender, but maybe performance isn’t always quite yet what it should be. He’s somewhat opposite of Frazier in this, in that Frazier has the higher ceiling bat, but didn’t have as good a year offensively as DeJesus, while DeJesus has the higher ceiling glove, but didn’t have as good a year defensively as Frazier.
Still, he definitely has the tools to play SS, and if he moved to 2B he’d likely be a plus defender there. (I think Ivan Sr. was a pretty good defender, as well).
by acerimusdux on Dec 9, 2008 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Christopher Marrero
He’s been overlooked big time imo.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 9, 2008 11:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
I think Marrero is a fringe top 100 at best. I know he spent part of this year injured, but he didn’t seem to make any progress even when healthy. Until he can prove to be a .270-.280 hitter, his power production/possibility doesn’t do it for me.
by thudean on Dec 9, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
Last I checked Andrew Lambo was the same age, can actually play the OF as opposed to 1b and has hit better.
The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns.
by mckeeno on Dec 9, 2008 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
did i say something negative w/ respect to lambo? i think lambo should have been on the list as well.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 9, 2008 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ryan tucker
he’s got the body, he’s got the arm, he’s got the record.
taylor, lambo, dejesus, brown coming up.
can we get testers for kevin mulvey and rogervan bernardina. mulvey is no less a prospect than niese, and i’d argue he’s got a higher likelihood of becoming a reliable starter than adenhart or hurley.
and bernardina is a toolshed that hit .335/.400/.490 last year between AA and AAA as a 24 year old. he stole 41 bases, and is probably a slightly worse bet than denard span.
When they should be sacrifice bunting, they are buying effeminate designer jeans. When they should be fouling off pitches, they are masturbating. Always, they are masturbating.
by variablesdont on Dec 9, 2008 11:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
went dejesus
Poor Michael taylor, about to fall off the poll again with no votes yet. Looks like he won’t make the top 100, although he’d be my next choice.
Marrero wasn’t that great this year but he was young. Beltre hasn’t done enough for me yet either.
by wobatus on Dec 9, 2008 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm torn on taylor
i think he could be the #1 prospect in baseball going into 2010. i think he could be OPSing .950 in the majors in 2009.
but it’s insanely hard to give a 5th round college selection a top 100 rating just 18 months later, when he hadn’t even stepped foot in AA.
When they should be sacrifice bunting, they are buying effeminate designer jeans. When they should be fouling off pitches, they are masturbating. Always, they are masturbating.
by variablesdont on Dec 9, 2008 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
from runoff to zero votes
Must have been ballot stuffing for taylor as he gets no votes at all, now. you and i were among the people who mention him most prominently and we didn’t even vote for him this time (Dejesus wasn’t on the ballot last time I voted for him).
by wobatus on Dec 9, 2008 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Taylor
was also my choice until Dejesus got back on the poll. I think I might have chosen Mills when he got on ahead of him as well, but I was picking Taylor for two or three picks through.
by Navi's_Navy on Dec 9, 2008 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just curious
how many prospects do you think will OPS .950 in 2010? seems to be a lot.
by thudean on Dec 9, 2008 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not that many, actually.
in the top 50 of this list, those who i think have a better than 1 in 5 chance to OPS .900 at any point in their careers, are:
wieters
heyward
laporta
alvarez
hosmer
wallace
montero
i just really like donald’s potential to flat hit, frazier’s potential to slug, taylor’s possibility of being a beast.
there are others, but i don’t want to give away my draft list. i will say that i think hunter pence will be one of the best pure hitters in baseball for the next decade. i love what he does.
When they should be sacrifice bunting, they are buying effeminate designer jeans. When they should be fouling off pitches, they are masturbating. Always, they are masturbating.
by variablesdont on Dec 9, 2008 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bernadina
Absolutely not. Mulvey maybe, but no way should Not-a-real-first-name Bernadina be slotted anywhere near here.
by aCone419 on Dec 9, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
bernadina? get real variables. where’s this fantasy team by the way? let’s see it.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 9, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm waiting on shin-soo choo's koreatown commitment now.
still wheeling and dealing. apparently i’ve got a shot at brett anderson, but a lotta things gotta fall for him to get here. i’m hoping to land a RH OFer (although i’m still planning on taking one more shot at beltran), and then we’ll be solid. here’s a look at the bullpen
and you’re seriously underselling rogearvin. he’s got a sweeter stroke than f-mart, and he’s got speed to burn. not to mention the fact that his gap power has actually started to translate to actual, as opposed to theoretical, extra base hits.
keep sleeping on him, though.
When they should be sacrifice bunting, they are buying effeminate designer jeans. When they should be fouling off pitches, they are masturbating. Always, they are masturbating.
by variablesdont on Dec 9, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hm...
I bet you bought the “breakout” of another 4th OF type in AAA:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/L/ryan-langerhans.shtml
.298/.397/.518 at age 24 in AAA after looking like a defensive replacement all his life. I wonder how that guy turned out.
by aCone419 on Dec 9, 2008 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
glad you asked
by the time that langerhans broke out, his speed was gone and he couldn’t play CF well enough to earn anything more than a glancing look.
bernadina’s still a blazer, and his defense in CF is quite passable, not to mention the fact that he stole 41 bases.
and just because this universe’s ryan langerhans turned into a shitty 4th OFer, doesn’t mean that the next universe’s aaron cunningham or rogearvin bernadina can’t find themselves a nice niche as a quality starter.
When they should be sacrifice bunting, they are buying effeminate designer jeans. When they should be fouling off pitches, they are masturbating. Always, they are masturbating.
by variablesdont on Dec 9, 2008 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bzzzzzz
Wrong. I stop reading when I got to: he couldn’t play CF well enough to earn anything more than a glancing look
That’s just blatantly incorrect. Langerbanger can’t do very many things with the bat, but he has always been a premier defender, especially when he first came up. I can guarantee that Bernadina will never hold Langerhans’ jock on defense.
Okay, I lied. I kept reading, but then stopped again when you equivocated between Cunningham and Bernadina.
by aCone419 on Dec 9, 2008 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Tucker
Ryan Tucker is what Mets fans can only fantasize that Brad Holt might be a year from now.
by acerimusdux on Dec 9, 2008 12:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Tucker's splits
What’s interesting with Tucker, they did move him to the pen, but his splits show he was even more dominating as a SP. He did very well as a SP in 2007 in A+ ball, and then this season in AA, while he only made 12 starts:
IP Hit R ER HR BB SO Avg.
70 49 12 11 02 27 62 .192
That’s just dominating.
I guess the secondary stuff still needs work, but clearly it has improved enough for him to make short work of AA.
by acerimusdux on Dec 9, 2008 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Holt comp?
I’d actually say Tucker is like a right-handed Niese, statistically. Better stuff in real life, worse performance and handling by his team.
But yeah, I went Tucker, too. I think it’s early to call Holt this good a prospect.
by aap212 on Dec 9, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Worse Performance?
You mean in MLB?
His performance (as well as stuff) in the minors has been more comparable to Holt, not Niese. He had a lower ERA in AA than Holt had in the NYPL.
This season:
Tucker 1.58 ERA 1.11 WHIP
Holt 1.87 ERA 1.05 WHIP
Niese 3.13 ERA 1.28 WHIP
The flaws are similar to Holt as well; he still needs work on the secondary stuff, he’s getting away with it in the lower levels some because of one of the better fastballs around. Niese of course has the complete repertoire and continued to have success in AAA. But I agree it’s too early to rank Holt here; I’m saying hopefully by next year Holt might be good enough to rank here.
by acerimusdux on Dec 9, 2008 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Neimann
ML-ready innings eater? Just because the Tampa rotation is loaded doesn’t mean he couldn’t be starting for 20-25 ML teams next year. Not a flashy, certainly, but he definitely deserves a spot.
by mraver on Dec 9, 2008 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
He may not be an ace, but the guy is going to be a good pitcher. Could be a mid rotation guy for lots of teams.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Dec 9, 2008 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Didn’t vote for him but I will be voting for him soon. He is big, projectable, and MLB ready. Sounds like a top 100 prospect to me.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Dec 9, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I voted for Adenhart- believe he’s got a slightly higher ceiling, but Niemann deserves consideration.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Dec 9, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Argh
After not liking anyone on the last list, now there are three guys (Marrero, Tucker, and Elbert) who should all have already been on.
I’m torn.
by aCone419 on Dec 9, 2008 1:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You're a little late
I thought I saw a man brought to life; he was warm, he came around like he was dignified. He showed me what it was to cry. Well, you couldn’t be that man I adored. You don’t seem to know, don’t seem to care what your heart is for, but I don’t know him anymore. There’s nothing where he used to lie. My conversation has run dry. That’s whats going on. Nothing’s fine
by gogotabata on Dec 9, 2008 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all out of faith
This is how I feel.
by aCone419 on Dec 9, 2008 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as
you’re not lying naked on the floor, I think we’ll all be OK.
by slurve on Dec 9, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mazzaro...
should not be voted on yet. I don’t even thinks he belongs in the top 100.
by joegonzo on Dec 9, 2008 4:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to...
a third of the guys after we hit 50.
by DrunkIrish on Dec 9, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TEXAS LEAGUE TOP 20 PROSPECTS
1. Dexter Fowler, of, Tulsa (Rockies)
2. Chris Davis, 1b, Frisco (Rangers)
3. Kyle Blanks, 1b, San Antonio (Padres)
4. Vin Mazzaro, rhp, Midland (Athletics)
5. Elvis Andrus, ss, Frisco (Rangers)
6. Daniel Cortes, rhp, Northwest Arkansas (Royals)
7. Jess Todd, rhp, Springfield (Cardinals)
8. Julio Borbon, of, Frisco (Rangers)
9. Max Ramirez, c, Frisco (Rangers)
10. James Simmons, rhp, Midland (Athletics)
11. Aaron Cunningham, of, Midland (Athletics)
12. Kila Ka’aihue, 1b, Northwest Arkansas (Royals)
13. Daryl Jones, of, Springfield (Cardinals)
by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 9, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do not think those lists are that solid of a reference
First of all, they are not based on scouting info, I believe they are constructed from the opinions of coaches and managers in the respective leagues. Second, they do not consider preformance outside of the leagues so you end up seeing better prospects being unrated or rated lower due to playing time or a lesser prospect having video game numbers. For example, I think many consider Max Ramirez a much better prospect than Jess Todd.
by tdot mariner fan on Dec 9, 2008 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Weren't you voting for Nick Noonan?
They’re f***ing identical prospects.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 9, 2008 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Beltre is a player that actually merits a red flag re: plate discipline. If you disagree w that, that’s OK, but that’s my opinion. Beltre’s upside also appears greater than Noonan’s, so they’re not really alike in that respect either (I think Noonan projects to be an above-average regular, whereas Beltre probably has all star potential). If you rank hi-upside players very agressively, then that’s a legit reason to prefer Beltre. I just prefer Noonan. There are very few instances of players w a K/BB rate greater than 6.0 having sustained success at the MLB level (Soriano and ??). Beltre’s is 7.0! I dont know how many players that had a rate that high in any full season in the minors went on to MLB success. That would be a statistic I’d very much like to see. OTOH, there are established MLB players every year that have a ratio similar to Noonan’s (4.26) and higher. That’s why I dont think Noonan merits a red flag, altho obviously it’s a concern.
That said, I do like Beltre. I just dont think he belongs this high. Both Noonan and Beltre have the advantage of being very young players, so there’s plenty of time for each to improve.
by rhd on Dec 9, 2008 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre is a player that actually merits a red flag re: plate discipline. If you disagree w that, that’s OK
I disagree with that. Noonan’s plate discipline is terrible.
The big difference is there is a MUCH better chance Beltre learns how to take a walk rather than Noonan.
by alskor on Dec 9, 2008 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think either of them has even the faintest chance of being a reasonably disciplined hitter
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 9, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Might you have said that about Jose Reyes once?
Everyone has the faintest chance.
by aap212 on Dec 9, 2008 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His career minor league walk rate is almost identical to his major league walk rate
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 9, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was referring to his first two years in the majors
When people were panicking that he would never draw a walk, in part because he had been rushed.
by aap212 on Dec 9, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What...
is your reasoning behind that statement?
by rhd on Dec 9, 2008 9:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Drew Stubbs
We’ve recently voted in two Reds prospects I like less than Stubbs. Can we give the guy a shot?
by aap212 on Dec 9, 2008 11:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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