Community Prospect List: #93
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 11:19 AM EST
86 comments
After 420 votes the winner of the runoff poll is Neftali Soto with 16% of the vote. Michael Taylor(4%), Chris Coghlan(4%) & Jason Castro(2%) will be removed from the poll because they fell below the 7% cutoff. Jose Ceda, Nick Adenhart, Eric Hurley & Engel Beltre will be added to the poll.
Please don't make me sorry I did this!
1. MATT WIETERS - C (Baltimore)
2. DAVID PRICE - SP (Tampa Bay)
3. JASON HEYWARD - OF (Atlanta)
4. TRAVIS SNIDER - OF (Toronto)
5. MADISON BUMGARNER - SP (San Francisco)
6. COLBY RASMUS - OF (St. Louis)
7. CAMERON MAYBIN - OF (Florida)
8. TREVOR CAHILL - SP (Oakland)
9. NEFTALI FELIZ - SP (Texas)
10. MATT LAPORTA - 1B/OF/DH (Cleveland)
11. MIKE MOUSTAKAS - 3B (Kansas City)
12. TIM ALDERSON - SP (San Francisco)
13. PEDRO ALVAREZ - 3B (Pittsburgh)
14. RICK PORCELLO - SP (Detroit)
15. DEXTER FOWLER - OF (Colorado)
16. BRETT ANDERSON - SP (Oakland)*
17. DEREK HOLLAND - SP (Texas)
18. ANDREW McCUTCHEN - OF (Pittsburgh)
19. BUSTER POSEY - C (San Francisco)
20. CHRIS TILLMAN - SP (Baltimore)
21. LARS ANDERSON - 1B (Boston)
22. JUSTIN SMOAK - 1B (Texas)
23. THOMAS HANSON - SP (Atlanta)
24. ELVIS ANDRUS - SS (Texas)
25. ANGEL VILLALONA - 1B (San Francisco)
26. JHOULYS CHACIN - SP (Colorado)
27. BRIAN MATUSZ - SP (Baltimore)
28. ERIC HOSMER - 1B (Kansas City)
29. TIM BECKHAM - SS (Tampa Bay)
30. MAX RAMIREZ - C/1B (Texas)
31. JARROD PARKER - SP (Arizona)
32. MICHAEL STANTON - OF (Florida)
33. MAT GAMEL - 3B (Milwaukee)
34. JESUS MONTERO - C (New York-AL)
35. BRETT WALLACE - 3B (St. Louis)
36. JORDAN SCHAFER - OF (Atlanta)
37. WADE DAVIS - SP (Tampa Bay)
38. LOGAN MORRISON - 1B (Florida)
39. CARLOS SANTANA - C (Cleveland)
40. FERNANDO MARTINEZ - OF (New York-NL)
41. JAMES McDONALD - SP (Los Angeles-NL)
42. JEREMY HELLICKSON - SP (Tampa Bay)
43. JOSH VITTERS - 3B (Chicago-NL)
44. YONDER ALONSO - 1B (Cincinnati)
45. TAYLOR TEAGARDEN - C (Texas)
46. FREDDIE FREEMAN - 1B (Atlanta)
47. GORDON BECKHAM - SS (Chicago-AL)
48. BRETT CECIL - SP (Toronto)
49. ALCIDES ESCOBAR - SS (Milwaukee)
50. JORDAN ZIMMERMANN - SP (Washington)
51. CHRIS CARTER - 1B/DH (Oakland)
52. CARLOS TRIUNFEL - SS (Seattle)
53. AUSTIN JACKSON - OF (New York-AL)
54. BEN REVERE - OF (Minnesota)
55. MICHAEL BOWDEN - SP (Boston)
56. TYLER FLOWERS - C (Atlanta)
57. ADRIAN CARDENAS - SS (Oakland)
58. REID BRIGNAC - SS (Tampa Bay)
59. JAKE ARRIETA - SP (Baltimore)
60. JORDAN WALDEN - SP (Los Angeles-AL)
61. MICHAEL MAIN - SP (Texas)
62. WILMER FLORES - SS (New York-NL)
63. MATT DOMINGUEZ - 3B (Florida)
64. MICHAEL SAUNDERS - OF (Seattle)
65. DESMOND JENNINGS - OF (Tampa Bay)
66. CARLOS CARRASCO - SP (Philadelphia)
67. AARON CUNNINGHAM - OF (Oakland)
68. J.P. ARENCIBIA - C (Toronto)
69. GIO GONZALEZ - SP (Oakland)
70. PHILLIPPE AUMONT - SP (Seattle)
71. JEFF SAMARDZIJA - SP/RP (Chicago-NL)
72. MICHAEL INOA - SP (Oakland)
73. AARON HICKS - OF (Minnesota)
74. JEREMY JEFFRESS - SP (Milwaukee)
75. ANGEL SALOME - C (Milwaukee)
76. DANIEL CORTES - SP (Kansas City)
77. GREG HALMAN - OF (Seattle)
78. JACOB McGEE - SP/RP (Tampa Bay)
79. KYLE BLANKS - 1B (San Diego)
80. MARTIN PEREZ - SP (Texas)
81. JULIO BORBON - OF (Texas)
82. NICHOLAS WEGLARZ - OF (Cleveland)
83. JAMES SIMMONS - SP (Oakland)
84. GORKYS HERNANDEZ - OF (Atlanta)
85. JOSE TABATA - OF (Pittsburgh)
86. JASON DONALD - SS (Philadelphia)
87. KYLE SKIPWORTH - C (Florida)
88. DARYL JONES - OF (St. Louis)
89. AARON POREDA - SP (Chicago-AL)
90. MICHAEL BURGESS - OF (Washington)
91. CHRIS PEREZ - RP (St. Louis)
92. NEFTALI SOTO - 3B (Cincinnati)
CANDIDATES - Nick Noonan, Vincent Mazzaro, Dellin Betances, Todd Frazier, Cole Rohrborough, Tim Melville, Kila Ka'Aihue, Jonathan Niese, Jose Ceda, Nick Adenhart, Eric Hurley & Engel Beltre
TESTERS - Ryan Tucker, Sean West, Brad Holt(84-2%), Cedric Hunter(86-0%), Nick Barnese (87-2%), Ivan DeJesus (87-3%), Scott Elbert (87-4%), Matt Moore(88-1%), Beau Mills(88-3%), Christopher Marrero(89-3%), Jeff Niemann(89-2%), Ethan Martin (91-6%), Adam Miller (91-6%), Andrew Lambo (91-4%), Danny Duffy (91-5%), David Cooper(91-3%), Michael Taylor(92-4%), Chris Coghlan(92-4%) & Jason Castro(92-2%)
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Belter
7th on BA top 10 for Texas….
About the right spot for him
by laxtonto on Dec 8, 2008 11:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Saw this on another site...
Great Comp Mavsfan1310..
Mateo vs. Beltre
Wow, Mateo’s 1996 season is amazingly similar to Beltre’s 2008. Both age 18 in A ball.
.309 OBP, .401 SLG w/ 8 HRs, 30 SB and 9 CS for Mateo
.308 OBP, .403 SLG w/ 8 HRs, 31 SB and 11 CS for Beltre
Edge to Mateo in the counting stats since he did it in 50 less plate appearances.
Edge to Beltre in batting average.
Nice comparison.
by laxtonto on Dec 8, 2008 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't augur well for Beltre...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 8, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mateo
Considering he completely fell apart after he broke his femur I don’t think a comparision to him pre-injury is a terrible thing to say about a prospect. Sure he had his flaws but if Mateo would have stayed healthy I’m sure we’d be looking at a comparison to him in a completely different light.
by TRanger on Dec 8, 2008 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, hopefully he has no freak injury....
that still makes me cringe
by laxtonto on Dec 8, 2008 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know nothing about Ruben Mateo, or at any rate knew nothing, other than his statline
How the hell do you break your femur playing baseball? I can’t imagine any sport where that’s a common injury, even chainsaw hockey.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 8, 2008 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah he was a top 20 prospect for 3 years running...
Read johns excellent prospect retro on him..
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2007/5/11/161628/354
Freak break, never was the same,,,,
Still probably the worseone that comesto mind for me on injuries at 1st. That and the guy that snapped both his bones of his lower leg midway up…. ugggghh
by laxtonto on Dec 8, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Napoleon McCallum?
That one was fuggly.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 9, 2008 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Miller
With only 7 spots left in the top 100, it looks pretty much guarenteed that Adam Miller won’t make it. What a shame. I can understand the doubt in him given the injury risk, but……wow. He’ll prove everyone wrong in 2009.
by fartballs on Dec 8, 2008 11:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hope he does
No one wants to see a guy completely ruined by the inability to stay healthy.
by aap212 on Dec 8, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i hope he takes his exclusion from our list as motivation.
a-rod is a traitor.
by larry on Dec 8, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
me too!
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Niese again
And until he gets on.
Engel Beltre, Matt Moore, Danny Duffy in no specific order.
ProjectProspect.com - Sullivan10x@yahoo.com
by sully10x on Dec 8, 2008 11:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
pinstripes
not sure if you noticed, but the Rangers added two more minor league pitchers who we need to begin hyping up, so let’s go ahead and see that Moscoso is added to the next poll so that we Ranger fans may begin the ballot stuffing and general hyperbole.
by clark on Dec 8, 2008 11:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Moscoso's upside
is easily Michael Main, so he should just be put right on there now. Just put him in Matt Dominguez’s spot.
by siddfynch on Dec 8, 2008 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i saw that. although, i think you guys owe me a big one by putting beltre & hurley back on! we’ll give moscoso & melo a tester .. :-)
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hurley
no way is he a top 100 talent. Beltre has all the tools, but he is fringy until he starts to show more patience at the plate. and there is no reason to give those guys a tester, either. but thanks for the offer.
That said, I don’t think there are any Rangers prospects on this list who have been grossly overrated.
by clark on Dec 8, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
regarding Hurley
after looking at the other names on the poll, Hurley may actually be a top 100 talent, but this is about the area he belongs until he comes back next year and shows improved health and velocity.
by clark on Dec 8, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Went Hurley here
The talent is there, and he’s knocking on the door as an MLB rotation member. Still quite young, too.
by siddfynch on Dec 8, 2008 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’ve watched him live & in color twice as well as a few times on the tube and I’m just not impressed. If I’m not mistaken jparks stated that he has no business on a top 100 list and I trust his judgement as well. Now, I may not have the proven track record like variables has but I’m pretty confident. jk variables… :-)
I just don’t see it.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
after i acquire a CFer, i'm gonna post my team's 2009 roster
i’m quite happy with it, injuries notwithstanding.
When they should be sacrifice bunting, they are buying effeminate designer jeans. When they should be fouling off pitches, they are masturbating. Always, they are masturbating.
by variablesdont on Dec 8, 2008 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
c'mon variables
post it. i don’t think we need to see you’re cf’er to get a good idea. let fly!
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'll give ya a taste
in the last 14 months, i’ve traded for the following pitchers:
radhames liz, edwin jackson, scott elbert, wandy rodriguez, dustin mcgowan, ricky romero, rick vandenhurk, rob tejeda, and craig hansen.
that is in addition to my core of shaun marcum, justin masterson, and gavin floyd. i’ve also signed a couple of pitchers in free agency (MDC, jason motte, nick blackburn), and drafted one prematurely, but i’ve got a pretty good feeling about him (kyle gibson), so i’m still good with it.
of course, in my effort to stick to a 3 year plan, i’ve since traded floyd, blackburn, mcgowan, and elbert, in deals for tim hudson, troy glaus, and rick ankiel.
i think that’s enough of a taste.
When they should be sacrifice bunting, they are buying effeminate designer jeans. When they should be fouling off pitches, they are masturbating. Always, they are masturbating.
by variablesdont on Dec 8, 2008 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Todd Frazier
gets my vote. Dellin Betances or Tim Melville is next.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 11:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Tucker
Really kinda sad that Tucker can’t even get a tester on here. He turned 22 the other day, passed the AA test, had a couple good major league starts, then struggled some. Now guys like JOSE CEDA and CHRIS PEREZ are getting on and getting looks.
Tucker has just as good of a chance as Ceda, if not better, of making the marlins pen and he has STARTER UPSIDE that Ceda doesn’t. Am I wrong? Does anybody even care about these things when ranking a prospect or is it all just a “my favorite teams players” free for all…lol?
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200806082873573&c_id=fla
Tucker is not short of stuff either. He basically got jobbed by being RIUDICULOUSLY left off the Southern League top 20 by BA and has dropped off the readar a bit but he remains a real good pitching prospect.
Honestly, i think hes a better prospect than most the pitchers on the list, yes MOST of them.
by casejud on Dec 8, 2008 11:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Tucker > Nick Adenhart
I defy you to watch Nck Adenhart and Ryan Tucker pitch side by side and you to tell me that Adenhart has a better arm than Tucker. I can understand if you haven’t watched them but if you have it doesn’t make sense. Tucker’s results were better too of course.
by casejud on Dec 8, 2008 11:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
hardly an endorsement
i can understand putting tucker on the side of adenhart to pump him up but that’s hardly an endorsement. you’d be hard pressed to find a pitcher in all of baseball, minors or majors, that put up a worse stat line then adenhart.
p.s. i do like tucker quite a bit though. i hope they give him a shot at the rotation.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tucker
and Sean West both need testers pinstripes. They’ve been requested a few times now I believe. If you could add them with the next poll, that would be awesome.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Dec 8, 2008 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i’ll put them on now.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True
Im not saying it is CLOSE though.
Im also sayinmg that Adenharts RESULTS were so bad that he must be getting love because of stuff/potential which ALSO isn’t as good as Tuckers. Thats what I was really saying. You can say Adenharts results dont matter if you have a logical reason to think he’ll get it together but I watched both those kids pitch pretty carefully last year and Tucker is just better. There is no logical reason Adenhart should be ranked higher on any list.
by casejud on Dec 8, 2008 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nick Adenhart
For all you Adenhart lovers. Maybe, you need to be reminded of his terrific 08’ performance.
173 hits + 75 walks = 248 baserunners in 145.1 innings.
Now let that sink in a bit. No, it’s hardly SNTS that afflicts him. I’d say it’s more like BTS!
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 11:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
BTS
busted toy syndrome?
Go Pirates!!!
by cool hand Charlie on Dec 8, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
close enough
broken toy syndrome!
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1!!
I was JUST going to post something like this, thanks. Nobody seems to be noticing than Adenhart just isn’t a very good pitcher at this point.
Eric Hurley is at least good at AAA and has just as good of an arm.
Again, Ryan Tucker has just as good of stuff and has a ctually pitched well. What is he lacking to be considered?? Mediocre AAA performance like Hurley or terrible one like Adenhart? I think Tucker can project to have a better than 5.76 ERA in AAA guys. Yeah, yeah, stats aren’t everything…whatever. The kid has a BIG fastball and, decent command, just turned 22. He’s a FINE pitching prospect.
by casejud on Dec 8, 2008 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Adenhart
While I fought for Ceda to get tested, and while I buy Ceda as a borderline top 100 guy in general, I’ll go Adenhart here. Unless you think there was something substantially exposed about him in the past year, I just don’t see how he can fail to crack a top 100 list. The upside is still quite good. Let’s see, out of the available options, my next choice after Adenhart would be, hmm … Mazzaro, Hurley, or Ceda.
by toonsterwu on Dec 8, 2008 11:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
substantially exposed?
you don’t think he was exposed? I guess that .306 baa could’ve been worse.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Quit stealing my posts :-)
Toonsterwu? Ceda dude? Will you at least TAKE a FREAKINg LOOK at Tucker and TRY to be OPEN MINDED? I know it doesnt matter but these thing would work a LOT better if people would look and say “Hey, wow, I really overlooked that guy” I do it all the time. Ranking Ceda over Tucker on any prosect list is just kinda so crazy that I cant ignore it, sorry. I like Ceda’s arm too but he is miles away in potential from Tucker or a fewother starting prospects on here.
by casejud on Dec 8, 2008 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
but you fought for him to be tested. Dont mean to mess with your fun…like who you like… but, just for the sake of meaning to this fiasco…. Tucker has a lot more major league potential than Ceda or Adenhart…or Hellickson for that matter.
by casejud on Dec 8, 2008 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'll be honest
as I posted below, I don’t buy Tucker as a starter. I think he’s a pen arm, and as a pen arm, he’d be behind Ceda for me, as Ceda has better stuff. That said, yes, i would put Tucker ahead of Ceda for the same reason I put Mazzaro ahead of Perez and if we were having a discussion on the two, sure. but i was just noting who my 2nd choice would be based on the available poll options.
by toonsterwu on Dec 8, 2008 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No dude
A 21 year old kid doesnt have an ERA of 1.5 in AA in hes a pen arm unless hes a slop baller or something. Tucker has work to do but hes got the fatsball, devolping command of the off-speeed stuff, and time on his side.
They may put him in the pen for a year or two but hes a starter long term. The Marlins cant afford to waste those kind of resources. BTW, guys with stuff who also throw strikes pretty well have a better chance of being good relief pitchers too! Meaning that Tucker is a better pen prospect than Ceda as well IMO. Tucker will be a good big league starter IMO.
I cant see how you can POSSIBLY think Adenhart will have a better future as a starter than Tucker at all.
by casejud on Dec 8, 2008 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ceda vs. tucker as a pen arm
well, you aren’t going to change my mind on adenhart and i’m not trying to change your mind on anything, so i’ll leave that alone.
As for Ceda vs. Tucker as a pen arm, I buy, after watching Ceda for awhile, that his control will improve some more. He really cleaned out his mechanics this past year, and I think Ceda’s fast/slide combo is far better than Tucker’s fast/ 2nd pitch – probably slider, although he could try being a fast/change guy out of the pen. i’ll agree that tucker’s control is better than Ceda’s right now, so yes, this is “buying” continued growth. He had a dominant 30.1 innings in AA this year, just dominant. A 2.77 FIP coupled with a .355 BABIP. Granted, somewhat limited sample size, but I’m not as concerned with sample sizes on pen arms, which I stated in a Chris Perez discussion somewhere.
by toonsterwu on Dec 8, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
eh
by all accounts, his stuff was still there. his fip was, what, in the mid 4’s and his babip was quite high as well. i like the fact that his k rate didn’t drop from aa-aaa (although actually, if there’s a case to be made against adenhart, i would somewhat ask whether or not his stuff can translate to enough k’s at the next level).
i like his secondary stuff better than say, the aforementioned ryan tucker. I’ll admit, i haven’t seen them pitch side by side, but i have seen them pitch this past year and i still like adenhart’s starting potential better, and starting potential wins out for me. I like tucker, but more as a pen arm (and in that case, he would be behind ceda as a pen arm for me BUT like my argument with Mazzaro vs. Perez, Tucker’s overall value would be greater than Ceda’s). i like hurley too, and while i seem to be using fip too much these days, based on fip, hurley was worse than adenhart this past year (i think hurley was in the 5’s).
by toonsterwu on Dec 8, 2008 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Forest for the trees
The esoteric numbers are blinding you to a couple things.
The question about Adenhart isnt really whether his stuff can transklate to K’s, its whether his stuff can translate to an ERA under, say 8.00 or so. You may think you like Adenharts secondary stuff better than Tuckers but you might like Tuckers swing and miss fastball and pretty good command a LOT better than Adenhart’s.
Tucker struggled a bit in his first taste too but he also had good starts in 2 of his first 3 outings. He’s got the fast ball, the sixze and arm strength to get more power (already sits 93-94) and command of it. He developed pretty rapidly with the off-speed stuff this year too.
Meanwhile, Adenhart was having ALL SORTS of problems gtetting the ball by guys who would be batting 8th or 9th in big league lineups. Dont fool yourself.
No looking at FIPS or BABIPS or any of that crap if you cant see basic stuff guys. That is for ADVANCED prospect evaluators. 5.76 ERA in AAA prtty much tells the story here ok. He wasnt as good as Hurley either ok?
by casejud on Dec 8, 2008 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not fooling myself
we simply have a difference of opinion.
I’ll be honest, i’m not a stats guy, so using stats isn’t something i’m good at. so i’ll state it like this -
i’ll take adenhart’s secondary stuff as offering him better starting potential. i’ve stuck to that after having watched both pitch, and well, that’s my opinion on it. i like tucker as top 100 also, and if both guys were in the pen, i’d like tucker more as a pen arm than adenhart. maybe a year from now i’ll feel differently.
by toonsterwu on Dec 8, 2008 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
You are entitled to your opinion I suppose but I was just trying to change your mind BEFORE Tucker becomes a good one, not after.
I actually think Adenhart has SOME potential…more than pinstripes does maybe…but Tucker has a lot of things going for him. Hes just a litlle bit off in his command and that’ll get you killed in the bigs. Adenharts problems are harder to fix. He has to get a lot better command-wise because he isnt going to miss bats I dont think.
Id be really surprised if Adenhart ended up a better starter than Tucker but I think they both have a chance to be decent pitchers. Well, I think Tucker can be a LOT better than decent. I think he can be Brad Penny.
by casejud on Dec 8, 2008 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so you like adenhart because of his stuff but you’re not clear on whether he has enough stuff to k mlb hitters? aside from that his numbers were, again, atrocious. find me a starting pitcher in the minors with worse numbers than adenhart.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Dec 8, 2008 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you are misreading my comment
I like his stuff just fine. What I was saying was that, if I was offering a case against Adenhart, I’d simply wonder if he would strike out enough people to be the number 2/3 type starter that some project for him. I think he can, but I think that’s a fair question.
by toonsterwu on Dec 8, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i personally think there are a lot of people who wanted to vote for miller
but they’ve had blisters on their clicking finger, which has prevented them from doing so.
a-rod is a traitor.
by larry on Dec 8, 2008 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nicely done...
… Larry, nicely done :-)
by casejud on Dec 8, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How many guys left here could step into the big leagues tomorrow and be able to contribute to an ML team?
Jon Niese can, and he deserves to be a part of the Top 100.
by adropofvenom on Dec 8, 2008 12:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes....on Niese
A lot of people here seem to be “meh” on Niese. But a lot of experts seem to like him. Jim Callis for instance:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=22592
Nick (Long Island, NY): Jon Niese or Ian Kennedy?
SportsNation Jim Callis: Niese.
mike (nj): Jon Niese or Carlos Carrasco?
SportsNation Jim Callis: Niese.
by acerimusdux on Dec 8, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kila
How are we overlooking a guy who hit 38 HR last season (without having to count winter ball), with a low strikeout rate, high walk rate, and an OBP around .450?
I like Kila, Niese, and Frazier here.
I maybe need to look into Noonan; haven’t really considered him yet. But the others up there don’t excite me. Betances was all the way down in the SAL, and still didn’t make the league top 20.
by acerimusdux on Dec 8, 2008 1:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
skepticism
this was his first legitimately good year of playing baseball (not counting high desert). i have concerns that he might be a platoon guy as well. his stats don’t bear that, but I think LHP with good breaking stuff could carve him up.
i actually have him 7th on my list of KC prospects behind moose, hosmer, cortes, duffy, melville, and giavotella. admittedly, i am a lot higher on guys like giavotella and chris coghlin, who I both think are often overlooked because they don’t have a big boom or bust skill set people seem to love.
Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.
by doublestix on Dec 8, 2008 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has been inconsistent
though that .925 OPS for a 21 year old in A+ was pretty impressive in 2005 even for High Dessert.
by acerimusdux on Dec 8, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And the 17th best 1B prospect doesn't belong in the top 100
by aap212 on Dec 8, 2008 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There aren't that many 1b on the list
Only 11, counting laPorta and Carter. And people vote for first basemen because often the best hitters who can’t field a lick go there, and hitting bombs and walking a lot counts for something in baseball, even if you suck at fielding. Good fielding shortstops who can’t hit a lick are a dime a dozen.
by wobatus on Dec 8, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya but good fielding SS/2B who can hit a lick but not as well as the 17th best 1B are
not a dime a dozen and are underrepresented here.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2008 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
who are these ss you speak of?
And there aren’t 17 first basemen on the list. There are 11, including Ramirez, a nominal catcher, carter, a nominal 3b, etc.
What crappy hitting shortstop did we ignore in favor of, say, Kyle Blanks?
Perhaps the community underrated escobar, compared to the major sites, but it doesn’t seem like there are a ton of deserving shortstops that are not on the list yet.
We have triunfel, but he may be 3rd or second. Donald. Same thing. maybe Ivan dejesus should be on by now. Is he a lock to stay at ss?
Per John’s new blue jay list, the community may have underrated David Cooper (B from John) and overrated Arencibia (B-), perhaps because Arencibia plays catcher, a more premium fielding position than 1b. I guess.
Anyway, i just don’t see that the list is somehow especially abnormally skewed to first basemen.
by wobatus on Dec 8, 2008 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
frazier
he looks like he is about to get on. decent hitter. Not really a shortstop. Same with valaika. Also ivan junior. It seems like the good hitting shortstops don’t field all that well and the good fielders don’t hit all that well. But maybe they are slightly undervalued.
I think we have the list about right. I went for Kila. He had a monster year. he is a little old and repeating for the thid time. Nonetheless, he looks like a version of John jaha to me, who only started hitting late in his minor league career if i recall correctly, and still had a couple of monster major league seasons that was likely more helpful to his team than Rey Ordonez ever was. And kila also hit decently in an admittedly good environment in the cal league.
But ok, i can believe that Frazier or Dejesus or valaika would get more votes than Kila.
by wobatus on Dec 8, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
If you think there are only 11 first basemen on this list, you’re very generous to some of these guys on D.
by aap212 on Dec 8, 2008 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
flowers
and who else? Wallace? I included Ramirez and Carter.
by wobatus on Dec 8, 2008 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see
Did you include Villalona, Montero, Wallace, and Gamel?
by aap212 on Dec 8, 2008 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't insult 1B
Gamel is solely DH material!!!! ;)
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Dec 9, 2008 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with Tucker
I agree that Tucker deserves a tester and should probably make the top 100. The problem is the Marlins’ wacky promotions. Tucker, at a nice age to do so, should have spent more of the year in AA, most likely settling in with even better performance. The fact that he’s been promoted so aggressively and had walk issues is clouding what kind of prospect he is. I think that if he were allowed to really consolidate at any level, he’d look much better. But he hasn’t, so it’s understandable how he can be overlooked.
by aap212 on Dec 8, 2008 2:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good point
but we are supposed to look through these things arent we? Not sure the promotion was ghood for his development or not…obviously he wasnt quite ready to dominate in the majors. maybe AAA might have been a better idea but Albequerque is a terrible environment for pitchers.
Either case, the arm, the command is coming, age, opportunity, projectability are all there.
by casejud on Dec 8, 2008 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After 203 votes....
Who is Community Prospect #93?
2% Eric Hurley 5 votes
12% Engel Beltre 26 votes
13% Nick Adenhart 27 votes
0% Jose Ceda 2 votes
4% Nick Noonan 9 votes
9% Vincent Mazzaro 19 votes
8% Dellin Betances 18 votes
12% Todd Frazier 26 votes
7% Cole Rohrbough 15 votes
4% Tim Melville 10 votes
13% Jonathan Niese 27 votes
9% Kila Ka’Aihue 19 votes
203 votes
Those percentages are pretty close to what they were after 148 votes, aside from a minor move up for Betances (6-8). Everyone else is within 1% the same.
by acerimusdux on Dec 8, 2008 2:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well
He really didn’t deserve to be on here in the first place. So, those are 2 vote more than I expected he would get.
by thudean on Dec 8, 2008 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
Ceda is a borderline top 100 in most lists, except I think this community list has, well, to say the least, been a tad surprising. Pen prospects are overrated, but a closing prospect with two elite pitches that showed improvement in control and cleaned up his mechanics dramatically has value. For my money, I think Ceda is the best closing prospect in the minors, and I think he’ll be able to help the Marlins pen at some point this season, if not at the start of the season. To me, that’s a borderline top 100 guy.
I lobbied for him to be a tester because I think he is as valuable as Perez, but I think both are borderline top 100. In saying that, I didn’t vote for Ceda and voted for Adenhart because, without revisiting the above debate, starting value ranks higher for me and I still buy Adenhart for a top 100 list.
______________________
At the very least, I think this poll shows that Adenhart, whether you like him or not, has support on this site … and that he wasn’t a total byproduct of ballot box stuffing.
by toonsterwu on Dec 8, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lol at Hurley's vote total on this poll
As for Beltre, I’d rather vote for Nick Noonan. Which is saying a lot, cause I think Nick Noonan isn’t top 100 or even close to it.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 8, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
New votes (2:14 to 3.59 EST)
Additional votes since I posted the above:
02 Hurley
10 Beltre
11 Adenhart
00 Ceda
05 Noonan
12 Mazzaro
00 Betances
06 Frazier
04 Rohrbourgh
01 Melville
11 Niese
03 Ka’ahue
by acerimusdux on Dec 8, 2008 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
has there been a 5 way runoff
Awful close between Niese (who I should’ve added to my above 3 some of guys after Adenhart for me), Beltre, Adenhart, Mazzaro, and Frazier.
by toonsterwu on Dec 8, 2008 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Two people for consideration for a test
Zach McAllister
And, if Ceda is being tested, shouldn’t Mark Melancon be tested first?
http://yankeesmtom.blogspot.com/
by hallofamer2000 on Dec 8, 2008 5:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i am a huge mcallister fan
that said, my guess is that most people on this board, based on previous comments, probably wouldn’t consider him top 100.
I like Melancon, but I don’t buy his stuff as being on Ceda’s level. He very well may be more successful because of makeup and control, so it comes down to how you grade. But I tend to think for closing potential to rank highly, said player has to have elite stuff, and imo (admittedly, haven’t seen that much of mark), mark isn’t on ceda’s level of stuff, but i’m sure that can be debated.
by toonsterwu on Dec 8, 2008 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
McAllister more of a guy to watch, in my opinion
His performance was good this year, but given his age and level, it wasn’t enough to make him top 100 material. But he’s definitely a guy with a great chance to leap next year.
by aap212 on Dec 8, 2008 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i am a huge mcallister guy ... he reminds me
somewhat of another personal favorite in sean gallagher (and people on this board said 2 years ago that i was a bit too high on sean). The only difference being the type of pitch development (that is, unless I’m wrong on mcallister, his change is ahead of his breaking pitches and he has better control, whereas at the same spot in the process, gallagher had a better fastball and a better breaking pitch). I think McAllister has a bit more upside than Gallagher. Put it this way, whereas I thought Sean’s ceiling was more a “2/3”, I think McAllister could perhaps be a “2”.
by toonsterwu on Dec 8, 2008 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this is so stupid
michael taylor WON the poll 2 polls ago and had to have a run-off with people who had less votes now he is off the poll, if you want a run-off it should be to determine placement and they should all be guaranteed the next 2 or 3 spots
by IHateMitchMustain on Dec 8, 2008 9:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not the first time
that has happened and it won’t be the last. Doesn’t mean they should secure a spot right after they lose.
by slurve on Dec 8, 2008 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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