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H2H - Rangers vs Athletics

I've decided to do a head to head breakdown by position for the systems...

 

C Taylor Teagarden vs Josh Donaldson - Winner: Texas

1B Justin Smoak vs Sean Doolittle - Winner: Texas

2B Jose Vallejo vs Jemile Weeks - Winner: Oakland

3B Johnny Whittleman vs Adrian Cardenas - Winner: Oakland

SS Elvis Andrus vs Jason Christian - Winner: Texas

OF Julio Borbon vs Aaron Cunningham - Winner: Texas

OF Engel Beltre vs Corey Brown - Winner: Texas

OF Greg Golson vs Rashun Dixon - Winner: Texas

OF Chad Tracy vs Matt Sulentic - Winner: Texas

DH Max Ramirez vs Chris Carter - Winner: Texas

SP Derek Holland vs Trevor Cahill - Winner: Oakland

SP Neftali Feliz vs Brett Anderson - Winner: Texas

SP Michael Main vs Michael Inoa - Winner: Texas

SP Martin Perez vs Gio Gonzalez - Winner: Texas

SP Neil Ramirez vs Vin Mazzaro - Winner: Texas

SP Kasey Kiker vs James Simmons - Winner: Oakland

CL Blake Beavan vs Henry Rodriguez - Winner: Texas

FINAL SCORE: 13-4 (Rangers Win)

 

Do you agree or disagree with my scorecard?

 

In my opinion, the Rangers' system dominates the Athletics'.  Not even close.

 

What are your thoughts?

9 recs | Comment 289 comments

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I agree

except for Main and Inoa. Main is better than Inoa.

What a great idea for a post. Can someone do some other head to heads? Maybe a bracket of all 30 teams??

by spoondoggie on Dec 30, 2008 6:01 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When has Lemon played the outfield?

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Dec 30, 2008 6:05 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're right

My mistake.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 6:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No problem just a heads up.

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Dec 30, 2008 6:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Outcome

Catcher – Agree – Whether you you Teagarden or Ramirez, the Texas catcher will be better
First Base – Agree – I dislike Carter (who was not used) and doolittle is good, but not smoak good
Second Base – Agree – Cardenas is the better player, but really thats not saying much
Shortstop – Agree – is this even in question?
Third Base – N/A – Guzman is with the giants now and whittleman is just bad. I just say its a null tie because they both are terrible
OF (1) – Disagree – Borbon is a good player, but not a great player and is closer to a 4th OF than an everyday starter. Cunningham appears to have the talent to play everyday, so I’d side with him
OF (2) – Agree – I dislike Beltre, but he’s still better
OF (3) – Agree – Its an uneven matchup because its a known commodity versus something still developing. Its close though, but I’m relatively high on Golson
OF (4) – Disagree – Is lemon even an OF? I have him listed in the infield, but I can’t come up with a good replacement. If so, I still think sulentic. I think he has a better chance of becoming an everyday player and think his output this year was relatively real.
DH – Unsure – I like Ramirez better as a catcher, and while he is a true hitter, I’m not sure he will ever provide the thump expected as a DH. Carter on the other hand, I dislike as a prospect overall, but for a DH only role where his defense (or lack thereof) is removed from the equation, its a much closer matchup.
SP (1) and (2) – I don’t understand why you matched up Holland/Cahill and Anderson/Feliz. I think the more correct matchups are Cahill/Feliz and Anderson/Holland, which I think would both fall in favor of the Athletics. As the matchup stands, the result is accurate
SP (3) – Disagree – I have large issues with Inoa, just on the whole, and really like Main. So I’d favor Main until I actually saw Inoa throw a pitch
SP (4) – Disagree – I still like Gonzalez and think he could be 3/4 type player while Perez, while a good pitcher, is really too far away to get a good judge. Gonzalez still has upside and is close to the majors while Perez is light years away. Goes to Gonzalez
SP (5) – Agree – I agree, but that doesn’t obscure the fact I think both of these players are consistently overrated.
SP (6) – Agree, kind of – Based on the matchup, I’d choose Simmons. But, I don’t think Kiker is necessary the next best guy. Depending on who one may like (Hurley/Poveda/Beavan in mind), they could jump ahead of Simmons, who I think is sorely overrated as well
CL – Tie – In my mind, no one can be considered a closer prospect when they are still a starter, therefore, as long as those two are still starting, they are both ineligible.

So I think my scoring is 8-7-3? I may not be able to count though

by thudean on Dec 30, 2008 6:08 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Borbon

You think he is a 4th OF? What makes you say that? The guy looks to be a pure CF in every sense of the word. Blazing speed, great range, a suspect arm, makes a ton of contact, and has shown he can walk when he applies himself, and is a pretty good base stealer. I think you are vastly underrating him. He should be the Rangers CF for the next decade almost.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 30, 2008 6:19 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pierre but with an arm

That is what I envision Borbon’s top level performance. Pierre is about league average, maybe, and Borbon can be slightly above league average. I have issues with players who survive fully on their ability to make contact. Many of those players turn into nothing more than bench players rather than above average major leaguers (see Taveras and Patterson for examples). Borbon is certainly just as likely to not be able to hit enough to last in the majors and with speed/defense as his only other tool, he will be relegated to a defensive 4th OF.

Even assuming that Borbon could hit his peak, I think Cunningham’s peak is more valuable as a plus corner of, both offensively and defensively. An above average corner OF who does a little of everything is often undervalued. Cunningham may not be a star, but he is very likely to be solid to above-average over his peak years.

by thudean on Dec 30, 2008 6:28 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Borbon is more than just a contact hitter

and even if he’s just a contact hitter, he still is very capable of hitting .320 and stealing a bunch of bases while playing plus D.

He’s got the potential to have some power and has a really good makeup and the strike zone judgement to really be able to develop into more of an on base guy. Its really just his mentality that he wants to hit the first strike thrown, not his inability to judge strikes and balls.

If you asked me, I’d say Borbon could be a Carl Crawford clone, maybe a higher average and OBP but less ISOP than Crawford, but i really think his overall OPS will end up being right in line with Crawford’s career OPS numbers

by blalock84 on Dec 31, 2008 7:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Defense?

BA says Borbon has the tools to become a plus CF, although he’s still learning about getting good jumps and other things. His arm has been compared to Johnny Damon though. Still I’d think he’d have more defensive value than Cunningham.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2009 6:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ya, his arm's not good but not Damon bad and

 I think it was JP that said that he makes up for it with a very fast glove to hand transfer.

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 1, 2009 6:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cunningham could be good

but why would you think a contact hitter who steals and shows some pop from time to time is “mediocre” for CF, isn’t that the definition of a good centerfielder?

scouts say he will have a little pop and he has shown a little, but he isn’t juan pierre, that guy hits like 2 homers on a season, that is completely different than someone who hits 5-10

by IHateMitchMustain on Jan 1, 2009 8:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

.320?

Wow, you have him as a .320 hitter? His career minor league BA is .265, his best batting average outside of his half-season in rookie ball (.295) is .285. As a 22 year old last year in AA, he hit .282 (with a fairly weak OBP).

I don’t see this .320 hitter that you’re talking about.

by nobodyinparticular on Jan 3, 2009 7:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Where did you get those numbers?

Borbon’s career minor league BA is .312, and he hit .337 in AA, .321 overall in the minors in 2008. I agree it’s a bit presumptuous to assume he’ll continue to do that in the major leagues, but get your numbers right, it’s certainly possible he could.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 4, 2009 5:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tracy replaced Lemon

I like Tracy’s bat much more than Sulentic.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 6:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed on the bat

But I’m not sure Tracy will stick in OF either

by thudean on Dec 30, 2008 6:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Definitely better options than Matt Sulentic

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 6:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Guzman is on the Giants. I'd put Weeks at 2B and Cardenas at 3B.

Also the A’s have graduated Suzuki, Barton, Buck, Devine, Eveland, and Sweeney to the majors and all will be in their 25 or under season in 2009. Texas has Davis.

I’d definitely take Rodriguez over Beavan, but any such calls are judgment calls.

It does show the Rangers have a better future overall, although it’s closer than you make it seem.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 30, 2008 6:10 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And Duran.

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Dec 30, 2008 6:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Murphy, Hurley, and Madrigal also

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 30, 2008 6:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True

That using players under age 25 may provide a better barometer of the overall team, but I don’t know if that was the objective. I think this is to settle the “whose farm system is better” argument

by thudean on Dec 30, 2008 6:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly

I’m just comparing systems, that’s all.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 6:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i dont think

there would be much of a difference if you used players under 25… Davis, Salty, Harrison, and Boggs are probably just as good if not better than the A’s players under 25 on the roster. Davis would be a top ten to 15 prospect in baseball if he still was eligible.

by blalock84 on Dec 31, 2008 7:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's questionable

harrison and boggs are meh to me. salty needs to do something. davis is a bonafide stud with the bat though.

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Jan 1, 2009 4:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ya, Barton and Buck have proved alot.

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 1, 2009 5:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

darn... ya, but Barton and Buck are pretty meh too*

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 1, 2009 5:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll give you Barton so far

but Buck posted an OPS of .850 in 2007(in a small sample), and has shown in the minors to possess that type of ability.

Anyway, as far as 25 and under on the big league roster goes(MLB experience, not mentioned above):

I’d take the A’s pitching,Eveland/Gallagher/Outman/Blevins/Devine, over Texas, Harrison/Feldman/Hurley/Hunter/Madrigal. I’d take Texas for the INF, Davis/Salty/Duran/Arias, over Oakland, Barton/Suzuki/Pennington/Patterson/Petit. I’d take Buck/Sweeney over Boggs in the OF. If we lump all hitters together, I’d take Texas, but it would be heavily dependent on Davis.

Overall, I think they’re very close again, just like the farm systems.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Jan 1, 2009 6:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and i agree

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Jan 1, 2009 6:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe

the bigger question for me is Salty sticking behind the dish. If he can’t, he becomes a 1B/DH with an averagish(position wise) bat.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Jan 1, 2009 7:07 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure

I’m not saying it’s impossible for him to improve. But if he can’t stick as a catcher, he’s just not nearly as impressive a player.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Jan 1, 2009 7:30 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agree.

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 1, 2009 7:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good post gatling

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Jan 1, 2009 6:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

easy there turbo

i didn’t say anything about barton or buck.

now i will; barton had a terrible season. buck had a terrible season. neither of those things can be discounted. i like both of them to bounce back; barton was clearly trying too hard to put balls in the seats instead of playing his game. buck was hurt and awful, but was pretty decent in 2007.

we’ll see what happens with those guys.

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Jan 1, 2009 6:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Made the switch

Cardenas 3B
Weeks 2B

Thanks for the help!

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 6:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with most of this. I'd probably take Cunningham, though.

But you said, “Rangers’ system dominates the Athletics’. Not even close.” The Rangers do have a better system, but it’s not domination. Domination would be the Rangers over the Astros.

by NateHST on Dec 30, 2008 6:32 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not really evaluating...

I’m comparing one against another.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 6:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

how can you compare without evaluating?

… you cant.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 12:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know we've had our fun with Dewey lately

and it’s cute to act like this post has merit…but everyone does realize that this is the dumbest fucking way to compare the systems, right?…other than nationalB.

Note: I am not saying this isn’t a way to do it…Just the stupidest way a competent person could.

2nd Note: The Rangers system is better.

3rd Note: Dewey still owes me ten bucks on what would be the bigger movie – E.T. or Krush Groove.

by sourstuff on Dec 30, 2008 6:39 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Competency?

I never realized competency was a requirement of evaluating prospects and farm systems. I though I could pick names out of a hat, throw them into a randomizer and assign random letter grades.

Seriously, not everything needs to be ragged on. No, this is not the best way to compare the two, but it is a way to do so. It could bring a discussion about who are the top 4 rangers OF or SP or whatever. It spawns discussion. Granted, I think this particular issue is being beaten dead-horse style, but still, discussion is discussion

by thudean on Dec 30, 2008 6:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Duder

First of all I haven’t ragged on Dewey in any of this other numerous posts.

And I think the subject of how these systems are being compared in this post absolutely should be discussed. It seems silly not too.

by sourstuff on Dec 30, 2008 6:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

btdub

is this…the “Dean”?

by sourstuff on Dec 30, 2008 7:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Hey, fuck you man...

because time’s going to tell on that one.

(I think only View Askewniverse fans may get that joke. But for everyone else, trust me, I am not insulting sourstuff.)

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Dec 30, 2008 7:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Paired Comparison Ranking

Is an effective technique.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 9:28 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

After further consideration...

I’ve made Michael Main > Michael Inoa.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 6:50 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yup

Couldn’t ignore Main’s performance this year. I didn’t give him enough respect on my list.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 9:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LoL @ This Thread.

So much fail in it.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 7:39 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A delusional A's fan doesn't like the thread? Noooooooooooo...

I think I’ve laid out a strong basis for why the A’s system is considerably inferior to the Rangers’.

Simply put: Star Power vs Mediocrity

*Please don’t make a foolish response as hero66 by saying the A’s have more depth.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 9:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Rangers system is prob a little bit better.

But not nearly as much as you make it out to be. And its quite obvious you are an A’s hater for whatever reason. So no one should take this thread seriously.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A's hater?

I am one of Trevor Cahill’s biggest fans. Unlike other A’s prospects, I think he has legitimate talent to be one of the best pitchers in the AL within the next few years.

I DO NOT HATE the A’s. I just think some A’s fans have unreasonable expectations. That’s all.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 10:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I havent seen to many crazy A's fan posts

 on this site other than one poster. And its not Paul Thomas. Doesnt mean you have to take your frustrations out on us.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Poor PaulThomas . . .

I’m not sure what’s worse. The argument that you’re wrong and that PaulThomas IS the one crazy A’s fanboy poster, or the way you managed to imply that everybody automatically thinks it would be PaulThomas . . .

I mean yeah, Nick Noonan should probably take out a restraining order on the guy. But still.

by mrkupe on Dec 30, 2008 10:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just know Pauls over her a lot

and can ruffle some feathers. Al tho he is right most of the time. I forgot the name of the crazy poster but you all know who he is and its not him.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:52 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there really is only one uncouth A's fan poster

its the guy that copies previous diaries and just changes the subject to A’s specs. Pt might be a little rough around the edges some times but i challenge you to point out when he isn’t adding something valuable to the discussion.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 12:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not really

I know you are a member of Athletics Nation so I wouldn’t expect you to understand but there are quite a few disciples of Beane on this site who are unwilling to listen to any reason that disagrees with their mesiah. PT is consistently hostile with fellow posters and does not listen to reason. Hero66 is constantly rude and condescending and tends to add nothing of importance to discussions. He just shows up when there is a fight to be picked. I think there are a LOT of great A’s fans on this site who add a lot to discussions; WaddellCanseco and gatling come to mind. While I do not always agree with their opinions (and vice versa as well), they treat fellow posters with respect and do not feel insulted if you don’t like an A’s prospect.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 31, 2008 12:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agreed about WC

he’s a very good poster. the rest of the things i will not touch.

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Jan 1, 2009 6:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah thats the guy Im talking about...

the one who copies posts and changes names. And I agree 100% Paul is almost always bringing solid info.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 31, 2008 2:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

asfan4ever723

most annoying a’s fanboy ever.

and all his posts

are typed

like this

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Jan 1, 2009 4:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am right there with you

I love Trevor Cahill but just don’t see the top talent in the other players the A’s have.

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 10:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

Although I would go with Cahill and Anderson before we experience a serious drop off in talent.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 30, 2008 11:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is pretty much reflected in the A- grades John gave those two with a max of B

for the rest

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2008 1:00 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also

I am a big fan of Inoa. He may be far away but his potential is through the roof.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 31, 2008 1:25 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't see how anybody can be a "Big fan" of a guy who nobody has seen face hitters in games

I bet I could find a few guys at the carnival who are guessing their pitch velocity who would be impressive in that setting. As far as I know (and nobody has corrected me on this yet), the dozen or so scouts who saw Inoa pitch were in a setting that was just barely a step above that.

We all literally have no idea if he can actually pitch. We just know he’s young, big, and can throw hard.

I’m an A’s fan, but he’s not even close to my top 10 on “prospects I’m excited about.” That’s a different list from Top 10 overall prospects (where he’s somewhere 8-10).

by thejd44 on Dec 31, 2008 1:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I will take the opinions of the scouts, Billy Beane (who is unreal at finding pitching), and the experts at BA and BP

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 31, 2008 2:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Personally

I still have a problem calling Inoa a top prospect because he has zero experience here in America.

I know that scouts, Beane, etc love him, but I’ve just gotta see some production. His chances of being a bust are simply too high right now.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 31, 2008 2:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He has zero experience ANYWHERE

It’s not like he played a bunch of years in a Dominican pro league. He’s not Alexei Ramirez, who at least had some track record of real games against competition that scouts and roughly equate to some level of minor league ball.

Inoa has nothing. He has a dozen scouts. And I’m not sure any of that dozen work for BA. BA, like the rest of us, seems to be going off second-hand information here. The best thing anybody can say about Inoa is that a team that rarely spends money in Latin American spent a record amount on him, and that team happens to be one of the smartest forward-thinking organizations in baseball.

by thejd44 on Jan 1, 2009 11:27 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Same thing was said about miguel cabrera

I know international signings have a high bust rate but i disagree that we just “cant really rank them until we see them.” I think scouting reports are a good indication and the fact that the A’s spent that money means something. I agree that he cant be given an A anytime soon, but he needs to be considered and considered a top talent.

by FishHead on Jan 1, 2009 1:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right. You have to make a decision on everyone, regardless of

the amount of information you have. Real GMs do, so us fake GMs should as well.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2009 6:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't really mean we can't rank them AT ALL

Just that I can’t justify ranking a guy with zero track record over more established guys. At this point, I don’t think we even have a clear idea of Inoa’s ceiling, much less the likelihood of him reaching it.

I should say that I do believe the A’s have more information on the guy that we do. Or even more info than BA or scout.com or Sickels have. And based on the history of the A’s organization, that’s what makes me think Inoa could be special. Just not Top prospect special. Yet. Grades change though, and next year at this time I might be calling him the best A’s prospect in decades. Who knows.

by thejd44 on Jan 3, 2009 2:53 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Awful.

Some of the matchups and the players he are comparing make no sense. I bet I could do the same thing, but switch around the players and matchups, and come out with the A’s dominating.

That’s why I just leave it at this – the Rangers definitely have more top-tier talent, but the A’s have far better depth. It’s close, but I’d give it to the Rangers.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 30, 2008 8:29 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"the A’s have far better depth" lol

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Dec 30, 2008 8:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Because it's not true?

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Dec 30, 2008 10:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A"s have 15 players with a B- and better...

Rangers have 11. Soo there is some truth to the depth question.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Both Oakland and Texas have C+ prospect

at the last position on Jon’s lists. So… thats kinda true for Oakland as well as Texas.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 11:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

1. Last time I checked, B- and above > C+.

2. Either way, the A’s have plenty of nice C+ prospects as well.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 30, 2008 11:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Except it is.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 30, 2008 10:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Enlighten us to it not being true.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 11:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

depth?

You mean a long list of mediocre prospects?

You’re right, the Athletics do have a lot of those.

Fortunately for the Rangers, they have a long list of TALENT.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 9:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The A's...

Need that impact bat in their line-up and I just don’t see who can fill that role coming out of their farm.

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 10:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just cause they need a power bat the a major league level

doesnt make the system worse. Carter could fill that role anyways.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carter=

Cust with less patience.

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 11:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You say being like Cust is a bad thing

He’s also demonstrated more power than Cust.

by thejd44 on Dec 31, 2008 1:07 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To be the best farm system..

I believe you need to have a mix of all types of players, from power bats to command pitchers to speedsters to power pitchers, The Rangers have an incredible balance but the A’s really don’t. They are lacking in that offense area.

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 11:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Really

you just need the best collection of talent. It’s very easy to flip pitching to acquire the bats you need most times. As an A’s fan who’s said this more than once, the Rangers have the better system, but it’s close. It’s certainly not the huge gap that Dewey wants to try and make it out to be. Both fan bases should be very happy with the future of their respective teams.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Dec 30, 2008 11:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Uhh.

Power bat: Carter
Command Pitcher: Simmons
Speedster: Dixon
Power Pitcher: Rodriguez

by mikev on Jan 1, 2009 6:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

anderson

could be considered a “command” pitcher too. house can fly as well. leon, demel, carignan all throw hard.

there’s plenty there.

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Jan 1, 2009 6:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not to mention Cahill had a better K-rate than Rodriguez

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2009 6:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As could Corey Brown

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 12:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

meh

A lot of these rangers posters think that Engle Beltre will learn to walk more than 2.6% of his at bats or strike out less which i think is a similar proposition. The chances that Brown puts it all together aren’t great but before his promotion both this year and last year his k to bb ratio was about 2:1 which isn’t horrendous.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 1:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not so much the strikeouts

But his apparent inability to recognize pitches. In my mind, there’s a difference between the TTO guy who Ks a lot and the guy who has trouble making contact. I’m not sure if it’s clear what I mean, but as I’ve said over on AN, Corey Brown looks a lot more like Joe Borchard than Jack Cust at the plate (obviously the other parts of the game are totally different, talking just hitting here).

by thejd44 on Jan 1, 2009 11:29 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cust murders FB in the zone and can't hit anything else. But he's good at

laying off breaking pitches and balls outside the zone. If he K’s it’s usually because the pitcher can get the breaking ball over or has a good change up. Occasionally he’ll lose the FB battle — mano a mano.

Borchard was much worse at pitch recognition and often swung at balls out of the zone.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2009 6:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've seen Brown play

He looks like Borchard at the plate. I know my Corey Brown watching has been limited, so I do throw in that caveat, but I tend to think his high walk rate is based a lot more on guessing right (and lower level pitchers having poor control with secondary pitches) than recognizing the pitches.

Brown can learn what I perceive as a major deficiency in this game, but he needs to do it relatively quickly.

by thejd44 on Jan 3, 2009 2:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

whats the difference between guessing right

and recognizing a pitch in your mind?

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Jan 3, 2009 2:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Deciding before the ball is thrown where it's going and what kind of pitch it is

As opposed to having an idea, but being able to adjust if you’re wrong.

Some of the swings I’ve seen Brown take give me the impression that he’s not very good at the latter.

by thejd44 on Jan 3, 2009 2:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who cares where it comes from...

whether its developed internally or they trade for Matt Holliday with specs that the’ve either home grown or acquired via trade.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 12:30 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What if...

Matt Holliday leaves after next season?

by Rangers2009 on Dec 31, 2008 12:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

after? i was expecting that it would happen during the season

bringing a new haul of prospects. The real point is that prospects that don’t flame out have trade value. The A’s have their fair share of lottery tickets in the low minors, but what they also have is a lot of assets that are as close to locks to become average or slightly above average major league pitchers. These are commodities that can be parlayed into a stud hitter just as Street, Smith, and Cargon were.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 1:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mediocre?

I love how you constantly underrate A’s prospects without backing it up with anything of substance. It’s always made up scouting reports and “gut feelings”. Syphon’s right. You have to be an A’s hater, because it simply doesnt make any sense.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 30, 2008 10:47 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So you are saying you wouldn't compare the top positional talents in the system?

What kind of ‘switch around’ would you do?

Brett Anderson vs Kasey Kiker?

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 9:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I could easily change around the OF and pitching comparisons (outside of Cahill/Anderson vs. Feliz/Holland) of course, and put it in favor of the A’s.

The biggest thing that leaps out to me is…why isnt Perez compared to Inoa?

Also, I’d probably take Gio over Perez, Simmons over Kiker, and Mazzaro over Ramirez anyway. I also wouldnt say that H-rod is our top closer prospect. I’d say that’s Sam Demel. Also, why is Beavan listed as a closer? Wasnt he a starter?

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 30, 2008 10:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Funny

Funny how it is mostly A’s fans that dont like this thread.

Anyways, Cardenas should be listed as a SS, and lose to Andrus.
I would also put Cunningham slightly ahead of Borbon.

by wolviex18 on Dec 30, 2008 9:33 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's Not What's Funny

What really is funny is how every single one of Dewey’s post all get 6-8 rec’s automatically within hours of posting. If I wasn’t so cynical, I’d say someone has a flock of bots rec’ing his posts. This wouldn’t be so bad if he had anything remotely interesting to say.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 30, 2008 10:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No

unfortunately Paul Thomas and hero66 have both thought it funny to rec Dewey’s posts(not sure about this one).

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Dec 30, 2008 11:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Didnt rec this one.

I did rec many of the others though.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 30, 2008 11:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well...

if you do future roster than Texas has an obvious edge.

C Suzuki vs Teagarden Winner: Texas
1B Smoak vs Doolittle Winner: Texas
2B Kinsler vs Weeks Winner: Texas
SS Andrus vs Christian Winner: Texas
3B Young vs Cardenas Winner: Texas
OF Beltre vs Cunningham Winner: Texas
OF Hamilton vs Buck Winner: Texas
OF Borbon vs Dixon Winner: Texas
DH Davis vs Carter Winner: Texas
SP Feliz vs Cahill Winner: Texas
SP Holland vs Anderson Winner: Oakland
SP Inoa vs Main Winner: Texas
SP Duchscherer vs Kiker Winner: Oakland
SP Simmons vs Ramirez Winner: Texas
CL Rodriguez vs Beaven Winner: Oakland

12-3. I think it is pretty clear who has the better future.

by joegonzo on Dec 30, 2008 9:44 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

There is a CONSIDERABLE difference in talent between the two.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 9:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd quibble with a couple of those, but you're basically right.

Mainly I’d replace Barton for Doolittle, and Gallagher for Duchscherer.

I’d also take Cardenas over Young.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2008 1:04 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cardenas...

will not put up 300 with 15 homeruns consistently.

by joegonzo on Dec 31, 2008 2:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is about future value

Right now Young is a solid, league average player on the wrong side of the aging curve. If you’re counting on him to be the same player at 33 or 34, you have problems. If we’re talking about next year, Young look to be a much superior player, but if we’re looking into the future you have to account for his likely decline.

by MrIncognito on Jan 1, 2009 1:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, I didn't mean Cardenas's career would be as good as Young's, just his future.

Also, he may well put up .300 with 15 homeruns consistently.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2009 6:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was being generous to avoid a debate on Young. I actually think his defense is bad enough that he was below average last year, but this isn’t the time or place for that.

by MrIncognito on Jan 4, 2009 5:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Duchscherer isn't going to be around past this year

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 30, 2008 10:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

too early to say main > inoa.

for all we know it could be inoa > feliz, Cahill > Holland, anderson > main but who knows. we’ll just have to wait and see.

by tmt85 on Dec 31, 2008 7:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know he is young

But if you go by the too early to say method, no prospects should be ranked.

by groundingout on Dec 31, 2008 11:58 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't even understand the process that has gone into this particular comparison

Define “future.” You must mean at least 2012, since Ellis will be around till then. But then you expect guys like Hamilton and Kinsler to for sure be around then? Peculiar, for sure.

by thejd44 on Dec 31, 2008 1:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+ a lot

the parameters for deciding what the “future” is are obtuse at best and i think its pretty clear that the lack of clarity has been used to the rangers advantage in joegonzo’s list

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 1:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I put...

guys who will almost certainly be locked up long term. The Rangers would have to be crazy not to lock up guys like Hamilton and Kinsler long term. Ellis on the otherhand, is replaceable. The A’s have plenty of second baseman so they can let him walk.

by joegonzo on Dec 31, 2008 2:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn't lock Hamilton up long term.

They already own his rights for 4 more seasons so I wouldn’t be in a rush to sign a guy to a long term deal when he admits that his body has been largely damaged due to years of drug abuse. I would keep him on 1 year deals and if he is still producing (and injury free) midway through year 4, then they can talk long term.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 31, 2008 3:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I mean...

that they will at least have him under contract for a long time because they woul be crazy not to.

by joegonzo on Dec 31, 2008 3:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

two way street

Its the choice of both the player and the team to sign longterm contracts. I just don’t see how you can fiat the signing of extensions for some players and not others arbitrarily.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 3:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's only...

a projection. If you were the GM of the Rangers wouldn’t you do everything in your power to sign these two to extensions. Even if they don’t sign these two then they would still probably win or at least tie at both positions. Marcus Lemon would replace Kinsler and Golson would replace Hamilton. Golson has more tools than Buck and Lemon has good tools too and has more power than Weeks. My point was only that it seems right now that Texas has a better future.

by joegonzo on Jan 1, 2009 3:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He probably won't be by the end of the contract

But you do realize Ellis is one of the 5 best 2Bs in baseball because of his defense, right?

by thejd44 on Jan 1, 2009 11:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree this isn't a particularly good method, but..

I’ll be a hypocrit and join in

C Taylor Teagarden vs Josh Donaldson – Winner: Texas

1B Justin Smoak vs Sean Doolittle – Winner: Texas

2B Jose Vallejo vs Jemile Weeks – Winner: Oakland

3B Johnny Whittleman vs Adrian Cardenas – Winner: Oakland

SS Elvis Andrus vs Jason Christian – Winner: Texas

OF Julio Borbon vs Aaron Cunningham – Winner: Oakland

OF Engel Beltre vs Corey Brown – Winner: Texas

OF Greg Golson vs Rashun Dixon – Winner: Texas (its close)

OF Chad Tracy vs Matt Sulentic – Winner: Texas

DH Max Ramirez vs Chris Carter – Winner: Texas (also close)

SP Neftali Feliz vs Trevor Cahill ((better matchup)) – Winner: Oakland

SP Derek Holland vs Brett Anderson – Winner: Oakland

SP Michael Main vs Michael Inoa – Winner: Texas

SP Martin Perez vs Gio Gonzalez – Winner: Oakland

SP Neil Ramirez vs Vin Mazzaro – Winner: Oakland

SP Kasey Kiker vs James Simmons – Winner: Oakland

CL Blake Beavan vs Henry Rodriguez – Winner: Texas

FINAL SCORE: 9-8 (Rangers Win)

but I’m low on Andrus and a few others and I think that the As edge the Rangers out just barely in the large scheme of things

by Navi's_Navy on Dec 30, 2008 9:45 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't...

really get Cahill over Feliz. Feliz has ACE potential, while Cahill has decent number one or good number two at best.

by joegonzo on Dec 30, 2008 9:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Feliz...

has also proven almost as much as Cahill already.

by joegonzo on Dec 30, 2008 9:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm incredibly worried

that Feliz moves to the bullpen where, quite frankly, his value would plummet. Even if it is only a 20% chance, a 1 in 5 chance of his value falling into the 40s and 50s is significant enough to put Cahill and his upside ahead of Feliz.

by Navi's_Navy on Dec 30, 2008 10:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agreed

I take Cahill over Feliz but I take Holland over Anderson

I don’t think it is too close here. Holland has legit potential to be an ace but Anderson seems like a #3 starter on a good team.

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 10:22 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Holland

and Anderson are close, but the fact taht Anderson throws more pitches well and has a better BB rate sells me on him

by Navi's_Navy on Dec 30, 2008 10:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True

but Holland throws much harder and still has three pitches. And his control is very good also.

Holland can learn to command his pitches better while I don’t believe Anderson can learn to throw his FB harder.

What pitches does Anderson throw?

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 10:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anderson actually did learn to throw harder..

He lost a lot of weight and it helped him a lot. Also Anderson is a year younger so he may still improve on his velocity as he grows into his body. Anderson was 89-91 guy. This year the the futures game he was 91-94. He has a plus change and curve ball.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've heard

90-93 but lets not nitpick

He also throws a good slider that is above average

by Navi's_Navy on Dec 30, 2008 10:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Im just telling you what I saw that day.

I taped the futures game and thats what he was throwing.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've mentioned it before...

The radar gun at the Futures game was out of whack.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 30, 2008 10:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now you just looking for any reason to nitpick.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, the gun at the futures game is WAY out of whack

has been the last few years…

Why not, its a publicity event. Besides MPH tends to increase in relief roles vs. starting.

by laxtonto on Dec 30, 2008 10:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was outta whack for anderson

but it wasnt outta whack for lets say Henry Rodriguez who was 98-99 all day, as advertised. Cahill’s velocity was also as advertised on the futures game gun.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eduardo Morlan

was throwing alot harder than reported at other times of the year

by Navi's_Navy on Dec 31, 2008 2:15 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hmm

Ya last I heard he sat in the high 80’s low 90’s. My other problem is he didn’t exactly dominate high A like Cahill and Holland did. Can’t say the same for Feliz though as he skipped high A.

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 10:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He had two bad stats that stemed from a thum prob.

Take them out and he was dominant.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cherry pick?

You can say that about most starters. Take out my worst 2 starts because of “X” that made me not have my best stuff and look at the results is really not a valid argument. Pull the 2 worst starts from Cahill and Holland and they improve even more….

by laxtonto on Dec 30, 2008 10:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Difference here is its actually fact.

He was hurt and missed starts because of it.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:47 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not a cherry pick

The guy had a minor (as in nothing to be worried about for the future) injury that directly affected his performance, and once it went away he was the great pitcher he was before that.

All we learned from those two outings was that Anderson might not be the best judge of if he’s healthy enough to pitch.

by thejd44 on Dec 31, 2008 1:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here's a question:

Which MiL pitcher had the best season (including playoffs) last year?
Holland? Bumgarner? Someone else?

Hollands AA and playoff performance was utterly ridiculous.

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 10:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

91-94 Futures Game

I would take Anderson over Holland but most guys will throw harder in one inning (or two) of work than making a 5-6 inning start.

by groundingout on Dec 30, 2008 10:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

how can you say Anderson seems like a # 3 starter...

when you don’t even know what he throws? Anderson has all the stuff to be Mark Mulder II.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 1:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mulder with the A's

not the one with the Cardinals or the one with Scully :-P

You know the guy that would mix and match a low 90s heater with three above average offspeed pitches and would give you 2 hour and 15 min complete games.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 4:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But, but, but Mark Mulder was the #3 starter on his team!

Please pay no attention to the other two aces behind the curtain.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 31, 2008 3:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I never really viewed Zito ahead of him

even in his cy young season. Mulder was always the guy that could be relied on for 7 innings Zito was a 6 inning balancing act.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 4:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The only...

thing that means is that Mulder was more reliable. Zito was absolutely better than him. I could see Anderson becoming a Mulder type, but that means that he will only be a solid starter and not a true front end guy.

Also, I think a pitching rotation will five 2s and 3s is better than a rotation with a number 1 and a bunch of number 5s.

by joegonzo on Jan 1, 2009 3:55 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right. Mulder v. 2001-2004 (1H) was absolutely a front-end pitcher.

Zito’s career’s been better because he was good for a longer period of time. Really he was never bad on the A’s.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2009 6:52 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

Zito has the better career ERA+ and the better peak, but prime Mark Mulder was no worse than a #2 starter, and I’d argue his three year run from 2001-2003 was borderline ace material.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Jan 1, 2009 7:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He was my favorite to watch.`

1hour 50mins CG.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Jan 1, 2009 8:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"2B Jose Vallejo vs Jemile Weeks - Winner: Oakland"

Just curious,

What makes Weeks better than Vallejo? I don’t know much of Weeks.

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 10:20 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

statistics, track record, draft position i guess

on-base skills as well.

not that it really has any relevance to the discussion, but i’d never heard of vallejo until this thread.

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Jan 1, 2009 6:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

as well as

power, similar speed, similar defense, and generally more polish for Weeks

by Navi's_Navy on Jan 1, 2009 7:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know about Weeks speed but Vallejo is extremely fast (second behind Golson).

But Weeks definitely has higher upside.

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 1, 2009 7:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Weeks is plenty fast

Between college and the pros last year he stole 28 bases, caught only 3 times.

A lot of A’s fans, myself included, think his long-term position is in center field, not at second base. Kind of a poor man’s BJ Upton, which is still potentially pretty good.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jan 2, 2009 1:20 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fact is

Jon game the Rangers 3 A’s and 8 B’s to the rangers system and 2 A’s and 13 B’s. Looks pretty even to me.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:43 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought

The A’s didn’t have any A’s??? lol say that out loud

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 10:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh

I see it now.

I think Andrus should be changed to a B+ and Holland should be an A-

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 10:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2 A's and 13 B's to Oakland that is.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 30, 2008 10:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As a non-A's or Rangers fan...

I think I can safely say that this is the worst Dewey post yet. Worse than the random Howie Kendrick one, even. The ranking system is incredibly, incredibly flawed (as anyone who takes more than 5 seconds to think about it can see), and once again, the actual post contains nothing of substance, or worthy of discussion.

And, hell, most of the edges that Dewey gives here are complete B.S. Seriously, you give “Borbon vs. Cunningham” to Borbon, which would be fine if you gave any explanation. But, you didn’t- you just gave it to Borbon without any explanation, even though only one of these two will likely get onto top 100 prospect lists come spring (hint: it’s not Borbon). Just some explanation here would be nice. Although, I assume that any explanation you did have would contain some ridiculous hunch that Cunningham will have the world’s first male pregnancy and have to retire from the game because of complications from said pregnancy, thereby making him a worse prospect than Cunningham. Or some such similar nonsense, as most of your other “analysis” has contained.

If this comes off as pissy, it’s because I’m frustrated. I’m frustrated that Dewey continually posts nonsense, I’m frustrated that people are reccing it, even as a joke, and I’m frustrated that his moronic posts are actually generating discussion (albeit mostly discussion related to how moronic his posts are).

On topic, in my completely unbiased opinion, I think the A’s do have the better farm system. They have a larger base of high-talent players, and a ton of depth that our pro-analyst here didn’t even get to in his awesome comparisons.

by RedSoxFaithful on Dec 30, 2008 11:17 PM EST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I completely disagree..

I think the A’s have an edge on depth but the Rangers have more high-talent prospects.

If the Rangers and A’s combined systems and I had to make a top 10 list of the “Okland Rangers”, it would look like:

1. Cahill
2. Feliz
3. Smoak
4. Holland
5. Anderson
6. Andrus
7. Main
8. Inoa
9. Perez
10. Teagarden

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 11:25 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Assuming the ceiling/depth statement is true

I’d rather have Oakland’s system. With the high attrition rate of prospects, I want more more more, even if none of those have “star potential” (of course the A’s have a few guys who have star potential and they have the depth). The higher the floor the better, because average major league players are useful and a good GM can turn guys who project as average into something more through deals with other teams.

by thejd44 on Dec 31, 2008 1:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another Way to Compare

In AAA, Oakland’s affiliate, Sacramento, beat the Rangers affiliate, Oklahoma City. In AA, Oakland’s affiliate, Midland, tied the Rangers affiliate, Frisco. In High A, Oakland’s affiliate, Stockton, beat the Rangers affiliate, Bakersfield. Oakland has the better system. Hah!

by redtopcowboy on Dec 30, 2008 11:21 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Especially to the Losers

AND, Athletics comes before Rangers in the dictionary. I’m pretty sure that alphabetical order correlates with system strength……Wait, the Angels. Crap. Never mind. 8-)

by redtopcowboy on Dec 31, 2008 7:24 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agreed...

Id rather have my minor league teams winning rather than not but there are a lot of ways that you can have AAAA players skew the results of minor league matchups.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2008 1:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is it me

or is this minorleageball’s version of sex sells? This thread is nothing more than Tex-Oak-spoiltation

by slurve on Dec 30, 2008 11:26 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

how many different threads do we actually need on this subject? This is what, the third one probably? It’s getting as bad if not worse than the whole Hughes/Joba vs. Buchholz crap from last year or the year before.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Dec 30, 2008 11:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

The Hughes/Joba thing last year and the Hughes/Bailey one from the year before were very annoying too. I can understand one or two threads on the matter. But we seem to be getting one or two a week now, and the methodology is getting more and more outrageous. I just remember to laugh by thinking that probably half of these prospects are going to be failures as majors leaguers if they even reach that level.

I am just waiting for an A’s fan to say the A’s are better because Oakland comes before Texas alphabetically and Athletics come before Rangers alphabetically.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Dec 31, 2008 12:00 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Agreed. Can we talk about someone elses systems please?

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jan 2, 2009 2:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think a few tweaks could be made

If you really wanted to compare systems in this way, I think it would be better to judge based on all the prospects at a given position, not just top one. Just judge on C, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, OF, SP, RP and look at all the prospects at a given position.

As far as the systems go in total I would give the edge to the Rangers but I wouldn’t say it was domination. I don’t really think the argument over depth is really productive, once you get to C+/C prospects it’s hard to really say which ones are objectively better, especially on a fan site like this.

by DiegoAsFan on Dec 30, 2008 11:28 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rangers over A's not much doubt

as far as i’m concerned. Like some of the other posters, i’m not sure I’d rank Cahill over Feliz. We might have a better indication after this year. Holland has more potential to be a frontline starter, imo, but also has a higher chance of busting versus but Anderson has more likelihood of becoming a solid mid-rotation pitcher. Edge for ceiling goes to Holland, however, Anderson reaching his is more likely. I’d call that one a draw.

IF Beavan regains his velocity i’d take him over Rodriguez, but until then give me Henry.

All and all an interesting post Dewey. I have to agree with most of your assessment.

by MightyMoose on Dec 30, 2008 11:28 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

According to baseball-reference, Beavan started all of his games.

Why are people saying he’s a closer? Is he going to make the switch or something?

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 30, 2008 11:34 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

talk is yes

the Rangers might move him to the closer’s role.

by MightyMoose on Dec 30, 2008 11:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unless I missed it

The Rangers haven’t really talked about him going to the pen. I think its more fan speculation since he is mostly a two pitch pitcher atm. The Rangers have said numerous times that they will give all of their best pitching prospects every chance to start.

Help me out Ranger fans, did I miss the club talking about Beavan going to the pen? I guess I could have.

by groundingout on Dec 30, 2008 11:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope... It is more of a BA construction more than anything else

Same reason why Kiker got a closer tag last year was because BA needed a closer in the futures lineup.

by laxtonto on Dec 30, 2008 11:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think so...

If his velo stays down then he wouldn’t exactly be a fit at closer.

The great thing about Beaven was that he learned to pitch without his best stuff last season and was still pretty dominate. If his velo returns he could start winding up in prospects lists everywhere.

by Rangers2009 on Dec 30, 2008 11:52 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, there is no talk about that

that is pure 100% speculation.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 31, 2008 9:16 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

more or else

but looked it up.

Q: JAYPERS from IL asks:
What led you to put Beavan in the Closer’s spot on the 2012 lineup card? Also, how close was he to the Top 10?

 
 A: Aaron Fitt: Mostly it was a numbers game — there’s just no room for him in the projected rotation. But I also know some knowledgeable baseball people who think Beavan winds up in the pen, partly because of his questionable secondary stuff, and partly because his ability to pound the strike zone with that heavy fastball, combined with his mean streak and intimidating size, seem tailor-made for the back of the pen.

So it seems like it’s more an industry thing, than just a BA concoction.
 

by MightyMoose on Dec 30, 2008 11:51 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That says nothing of the Rangers though

And they have said many times that their best arms will be given every chance to start. If he gets moved to the pen it’s because he failed as a starter.

by groundingout on Dec 31, 2008 1:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

partly because of his questionable secondary stuff

Good grief. The guy pitch his first full season of pro ball last year in low A. I think he has plenty of time to improve on his secondary pitches.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Dec 31, 2008 10:59 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're ruining this site.

“Simply put: Star Power vs Mediocrity”
“You mean a long list of mediocre prospects? You’re right, the Athletics do have a lot of those. Fortunately for the Rangers, they have a long list of TALENT.”

Yeah, we understand that you’ve got a little thing for the Rangers but could you please give some evidence to back up some of the shit that you say on here? I actually agree with you that the Rangers have a better system than the A’s. Probably more talent in the majors, too. I love me some Chris Davis.

But give me a break. Mediocrity? Back it up with something other than “well I just don’t think he’s got the talent.” Well why the hell not? Quit making up your own scouting reports on players. It’s getting old.

by NateHST on Dec 31, 2008 2:30 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As others have said before

this thread is entirely pointless. Clearly Rangers fans are going to agree with these comps and A’s fans are going to disagree. What’s the point? In the end, everyone gets pissed at each other, flame wars start, and the rest of the fans on this site look even more badly upon A’s and Rangers fans.

If people really want to start a positive discussion about these two teams, have an objective source (preferably Sickels himself) do a head to head comparison. But even then, I doubt any productive discussion can come out of comparing A’s and Rangers prospects.

"We were s--, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 31, 2008 8:19 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"...and the rest of the fans on this site look even more badly upon A’s and Rangers fans."

Entirely impossible.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Dec 31, 2008 11:21 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's the part

that really bothers me. I kind of feel like this diary was made for revenge against Paul Thomas for his dumb idea of rec’ing Dewey’s posts because it’s “funny”. That pissed Dewey off, so he did this to retaliate, likely hoping to start a huge flame war. It’s ridiculous, and it’s getting old. This stuff the last few weeks has been as bad as anything since the whole sock puppet issue, and makes coming to this site a little less fun.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Dec 31, 2008 11:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Clearly Rangers fans are going to agree with these comps and A’s fans are going to disagree"

Really, because I’ve noticed 4 or 5 A’s fans I’m familiar with basically say “The Rangers system is better” because saying this is a stupid way to prove that point.

by thejd44 on Dec 31, 2008 1:19 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no

intelligent fans acknowledge a stupid post no matter their allegiance

http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/

by Goyogringo on Jan 1, 2009 3:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This diary is bad,

but the discussions/comments in it are much worse. Not a proud moment for fans of either team.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 31, 2008 8:27 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This entire thread is dumber than a sack of hammers.

by aCone419 on Dec 31, 2008 9:13 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i thought the original diary was pretty cool...the other 136 entries are ridiculous though...

does a strong minor league system retard intellectual development?

TPJ...you're dead to me

by billybeingbilly on Dec 31, 2008 11:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For what its worth.

Stu (Dallas, Tx): Hey Jim, a group of us are having a huge argument over the Rangers and A’s prospects. Which one right now would you take head to head? Also, which out of Cahill/Anderson or Feliz/Holland would you take?

SportsNation Jim Callis: (2:27 PM ET ) Anderson/Cahill.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 31, 2008 3:13 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Problem is

ask him again next week and it will be the other 2

by slurve on Dec 31, 2008 3:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Which I think

only explains how close they really are.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Dec 31, 2008 3:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In October

Callis took Feliz/Holland, but I guess he can change his mind. Cahill/Anderson are quite a but safer IMO and for that reason I would probably go with them.

by groundingout on Dec 31, 2008 4:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my problem with this thread is saying that the rangers system is significantly stronger

based on a comparison of 17 players from each system. that being said, i agree that the rangers system is stronger, but i wouldnt say the difference between the two is huge. and one thing is for sure, both systems are very strong.

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Dec 31, 2008 9:12 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True...

both systems are strong. The thing is Texas COULD be really good team that could win a Series or two and Oakland will only be a good team that makes the playoffs every year but isn’t good enough to win it all unless they add a star or two.

by joegonzo on Jan 1, 2009 3:58 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good point

but obviously there will be guys not on this list contributing. but if your only looking at this list, i definitely see where your coming from.

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Jan 1, 2009 4:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Texas will win when they get some pitchers..

and they havent done that in how long?

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Jan 1, 2009 5:26 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, because as everyone knows, the baseball playoffs are inevitably won by the most talented team

and reaching them is far more luck-based than doing well in them.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jan 1, 2009 3:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd still rather be the more talented team though.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2009 6:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, very much so

I’m just saying that the statement that a team is “good enough to get to the playoffs but not good enough to win the WS” is, ipso facto, imbecilic.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jan 2, 2009 1:21 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey, I saw somebody here list the A's organization as 7th in baseball

So while it is obvious to you that the systems are close – and it’s obvious to most people that the overall gap isn’t huge – it’s not obvious to everybody.

by thejd44 on Jan 1, 2009 11:33 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the correct answer

would you take oakland OR texas, the answer is YES

by IHateMitchMustain on Jan 1, 2009 3:30 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

callis chat 12/31

Stu (Dallas, Tx): Hey Jim, a group of us are having a huge argument over the Rangers and A’s prospects. Which one right now would you take head to head? Also, which out of Cahill/Anderson or Feliz/Holland would you take?

SportsNation Jim Callis: Anderson/Cahill.

by Asfan4ever723 on Jan 2, 2009 12:01 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

look up the page stupid.

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 2, 2009 11:20 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think he's suggesting that he copied it from earlier in this thread

Since he has a habit of embarrassing himself by copying what others say.

by thejd44 on Jan 3, 2009 2:57 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thats what I thought.

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 3, 2009 9:21 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nope

i read the callis chat myself, i didnt see it posted above…my bad

by Asfan4ever723 on Jan 3, 2009 1:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dewey...

Provide some explanations please. Because right now, you just look misinformed and biased

Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust

by FrankCohen on Jan 2, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fit espn chat from december

Danny (Monmouth): Which pitcher will have the most impact in the majors in 2009 Neftali Feliz, Brett Anderson or Madison Bumgerdner? Are any #1 starter material?

SportsNation Aaron Fitt: Hi everyone, happy to pinch-hit for Jim Callis today as he works feverishly to get our Prospect Handbook out the door by the end of the week. For me, it’s Anderson. I life Feliz’s stuff better, but he’s still got to refine his secondary stuff somewhat. Anderson is more polished and I suspect he’ll be in Oakland’s rotation by the All-Star break. Feliz could get big league hitters out right now with just his fastball, but the Rangers have no reason to rush him — they can leave him in the minors to develop his breaking ball. I do think Feliz gets called up sometime in the second half, however.

by Asfan4ever723 on Jan 3, 2009 1:27 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And?

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 3, 2009 1:30 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nothing

This guy just posts random stuff about A’s prospects, whether it really pertains to the topic at hand or not. He’s pretty annoying.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Jan 3, 2009 1:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah this so random

since feliz/anderson have nothing to do with this discussion.

by Asfan4ever723 on Jan 3, 2009 2:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The discussion

isn’t about who will reach the show first, that is extremely irrelevant and unimportant. The post you made really added nothing to the discussion. Pretty simple.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Jan 3, 2009 2:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 3, 2009 2:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Chill out

I think you guys need to leave off him – sure he may copy and paste a lot of things but he doesn’t make malicious or insulting posts. Certainly Callis’ view on which prospect is more polished at the moment is relevant to this discussion as if all things being equal you would take the prospect closer to being a factor in the majors. Feliz may have a higher ceiling than Anderson but he also has a greater chance of not reaching it.

by DeJay on Jan 3, 2009 5:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

I’m tired of the guy doing this kind of stuff, because all it serves to do is make us other A’s fans look bad as a group. I get tired of hearing negative things about A’s fans, because guys like Asfan4ever723 make us look dumb as a group. He doesn’t come up with original posts, he takes the work of someone else here, substitutes A’s prospects into, then posts it. Then he posts random excerpts from various chats, or jumps into a discussion of some other team’s prospect and starts asking questions about A’s prospects. It’s a tired act.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Jan 3, 2009 5:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So what

I can look past his C&P and ignore his posts if I want to. Your badgering of him embarrasses me more as an A’s fan than his posts. I’ve had my issues with him in the past but it is not difficult to ignore his posts. As I said they are hardly vindictive although most of your recent posts seem to be. A’s and Rangers fans seem to be unfairly villified on this site but making arly the scapegoat doesn’t sit well with me.

by DeJay on Jan 3, 2009 7:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fine

you’re entitled to your opinion of him, and of me. I’m no saint, and I’ll readily admit it, but while his posts may not be “vindictive” they only fuel the A’s fan hate around here. To me, that’s more annoying and more of a problem than me calling him out about it. If I was the only that felt that way about his C&P stuff, I’m sure I’d be more inclined to agree with you. But that’s not the case, it’s something he’s done for a long time, and no one really cares for it.

Beyond all of that, as I replied to Diego below, the quote he posted here doesn’t really add to the debate, because it’s not unknown information or anything. Anderson has always been a polished pitcher, so it’s no surprise he profiles to reach the bigs first. The only way it would really be pertinent information is if the quote mentioned Feliz being more MLB ready, something that would seem to contradict conventional wisdom(outside of the idea of Feliz pitching in the pen late this year, which would be a waste unless Texas is in the playoff hu