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Around SBN: The Animated GIFs Of January

Cardinals a top-10 farm systemAcc

According to BA:

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bird-land/bird-land/2008/12/baseball-america-st-louis-cardinals-minor-league-talent-cracks-top-10/

 

Of course, I;ve been bitching for awahile that AAA semi-stars that project as MLB regulars should be given more weight than they are getting in out internal rankings here, and this helps my feelings - guys like Chris Perez, Jason Motte, David Freese, and Allen Craig are surely in the Cards top 10, and probably help tip the Cards system into the Top 10.  Interesting, though, that BA is traditionally the organization that tends to upgrade raw talent, whereas the guys I am talking about are the steady reliable types.

Off the top of my head, teams I see ahead of teh Cards would be:

TB

ATL

OAK

TEX

SFO

BAL?

BOS?

The link refers to STL being #8.

 

 

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Don't forget the Marlins

Florida probably has the #3 system, behind only Texas and Oakland. They probably lack a little in the arms department, but they have a ton of nice bats in guys like Stanton, Morrison, Coughlan, etc.

by guru4u on Dec 30, 2008 9:45 AM EST reply actions  

cleveland goes pretty deep too. no ‘a’ prospects but a very deep system.

by stickpiano on Dec 30, 2008 10:32 AM EST reply actions  

Sickels currently has

Texas/Oakland/Atl/Bost/Tam/KCR/Bal as the Top 7 teams with 22 done, according to these guys keeping track at OH.

As for the Cardinals, I haven’t thought in depth about it, but yeah, I guess, with a stud in Rasmus, and some solid prospects like Jay/Todd/Perez, I can see them as perhaps a top 10 team.

by toonsterwu on Dec 30, 2008 11:29 AM EST reply actions  

Jay/Todd/Perez?

Those guys are solid but you should at least mention Brett Wallace and Daryl Jones!

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by sully10x on Dec 30, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Kozma?

I think Pete Kozma is being VERY underappreciated right now. He’s behind Rasmus and Wallace, but you could defend him being ahead of everybody else in the system.

by mrkupe on Dec 30, 2008 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

my top ten Farms Right Now....

1. San Francisco Giants
2. Texas Rangers
3. Oakland Athletics
4. Tampa Bay Rays
5. Florida Marlins
6. St. Louis Cardinals
7. Cleveland Indians
8. Kansas City Royals
9. Minnesota Twins
10. Boston Red Sox

just missing….Baltimore and Atlanta

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 30, 2008 7:35 PM EST reply actions  

So, you're a Giants fan then?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 30, 2008 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

the giants?

wow, stop it, they aren’t even top 10 except everyone overrates bumgardner so much because he did good in low A

by IHateMitchMustain on Dec 30, 2008 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's valid to

have SF above Oakland and Texas, but to do so I think you have to think that their impact guys – including their big money 16 year old purchases – will be clearly better than the high end guys from the other two because their (Tex/Oak) depth is so remarkable. It does look like the Giants had a good draft, though, so that helps. I do like their system a lot, probably more than Florida’s.

by Brett Perryman on Dec 31, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

If we're going to over-rate 16 year olds

then shouldn’t that benefit the As?

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by OldProspects on Jan 1, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions  

No....Big Twins fan

thanks Paul Thomas, but Really I am a fan of Baseball and the Minor Leagues…., but the Twins.

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 30, 2008 7:44 PM EST reply actions  

Oh, that makes sense then

You figure the Giants will trade all their good players to Minnesota for Michael Cuddyer.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 30, 2008 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Honest question

How are the Twins top 10 right now? The system’s thinned out so much. I mean … nothing personal against Twins fans, but that isn’t exactly a top system right now. Atlanta is heads and toes above them, and Baltimore’s top 4 is probably enough to put them ahead. I tend to think the Twins are probably in that 16-20 area of systems. Maybe all their guys develop and are an exception, but in terms of overall system, I don’t see this great Twins system that you see.

by toonsterwu on Dec 31, 2008 9:15 AM EST up reply actions  

good point toonsterwu....on Twins system

I would have to respectfully disagree…
I just really think the Twins have A lot of Depth in three areas

Starting Pitching
Relief Pitching
and Catching

not to mention Outfielders are stronger than I can ever remember…..
last year for example
When Nick Blackburn sat about anywhere from 12-25 in Twins 2008 Ranked prospects by nearly Everyone (except BA who had him #1) and then proceeded to jump out and become a solid #3 starter for the Twins all year in his rookie campaign in 2008 last year, I really thought wow The Twins Starting Pitchers might not have “ace” potential except for a rare find like a Garza, or Rule 5 Santana and maybe a Radke,,,,, but the Twins have soo so soo many potential #3-4 starting pitchers in the Big leagues in their system right now….

+ with The Braves dealing away Flowers, and Lillibridge -I know neither of them is all that of a great prospect I just think Atlanta lost some of their muster.

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 31, 2008 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Flowers was set to be the 8th spect I think in the Braves system and I doubt Lillibridge would have been in the top 15-20 given his down year in AAA. I don’t see how that takes the Braves from arguably a top 5 system to out of the top 10 completely.

As far as your list, I have no idea how the Giants system is #1 unless you think Posey will be Wieters, Villalona will move back to 3B and actually develop, both of Alderson/Bumgarner become at least really good #2s and the rest of the system has incredible depth because I just don’t see how it’s possible with the way it looks currently. They are in the discussion for top 5 (perhaps ahead of the Braves now but I don’t think so) but there is no way they are #1.

by jfish26101 on Dec 31, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

John had him at 5 before being dealt and then the White Sox 3rd rated spect but I’m pretty sure Manuel/Callis said they had him at 8 for the Braves before being dealt. I don’t read BP much until recently but haven’t heard what KG had him at.

/me shrugs

I suppose you could argue losing Flowers hurts the quality of the Braves system a good deal but I don’t agree. He wont stick at C and I’m not going to equate his success in the AFL to success at AA and AAA before seeing it first. He is a solid bat that is a ways away but there is still an awful lot to like about the Braves system and I feel it should remain in the discussion for the top 5…the Braves should definitely be in the top 10 without question though in my opinion.

by jfish26101 on Dec 31, 2008 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the first thing that needs to be said

is that, with rankings, to each their own, as everyone judges differently. So certainly, I’m not critiquing your opinion, as your opinion is, well, yours.

It sounds like you are arguing that the depth of the Twins system overcomes their weakness at the top right now. If that’s the case, I understand, but I don’t subscribe to that principle personally. I remember, as a Cubs fan, either in 2005 or 2006 when we were ranked a 16-20 system, and my first question was, how? There was absolutely no upside for us. That said, 3 years later, some decent, useful players have developed, so you balance perspectives.

For me, I just think a system needs some top level talent. With the Twins right now, and certainly graduations have hurt, they have two guys that are elite, and some would probably debate how elite Revere and Hicks are. I’m not one that buys into pen depth unless it’s closing capability, and there’s only a couple of arms that even look like closing material. I don’t see the ready starting pitching depth, as guys like Mulvay/Humber/Swarzak are end of the rotation types. Thing is, each system always has end of the rotation types (as a Cubs fan, I don’t think the difference between say, Mulvey/Humber and Caridad/Atkins is all that much). Where’s the positional depth?

I think, the reason people look for the top talent, which sometimes overshadows depth, is that you can find these stopgap guys. You can find the middle relievers, the end of the rotation starters. Comparing it to the Braves system right now, and I’m not sure how it’s close. I think guys like Schafer and Hernandez are about equal to Revere/Hicks. Maybe you give, like John did, Revere/Hicks a slight edge (personally I think it’s all balanced, and I’d probably lean to the Braves twosome to be honest), but the difference isn’t by much. The Braves trump their own OF’s with Heyward/Freeman, and they have other positional depth hanging around, like Hicks. Short of it is, I see better elite positional players and more positional depth. Looking at the pitching charts, and I think the Braves 2nd tier pitchers, guys like Locke and Rohrbough, are equal or better than the Twins top level arms, and the Braves have depth behind them, along with the trump card of a Tommy Hanson ahead of them. Maybe the Twins have better pen depth, but a guy like Kimbrel is equal or better than Delaney.

I just don’t see the elite talent, and a system that’s filled with a bunch of guys that might get a cup of coffee in the bigs isn’t a top system to me. Now, in saying this, I think there’s enough upside in the Twins system that I could change my mind in a year. Maybe I was a bit harsh in saying 16-20 earlier, but I think John’s current placement of the Twins, as an organization in that 11-15 range, is probably fair.

That said, to each their own. Happy New Year.

by toonsterwu on Dec 31, 2008 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Nicely Said

I just think 3-4 level starters is different than 4,5,6 level starters.

McCardell, Robertson, Swarzak, Manship, Burnett could pan out to be #1,2,3,4,5 starters in the Big League……and that doesn’t include the list of guys like Gutierrez, Hunt, Bromberg, DeVries, Lanigan, Duensing, Mulvey, Humber, Guerra, Santos Arias…and others.

Kimbrel is great but the Twins have Delaney, Slama, Lobanov, Mijares, Gabino
that are all just a half of or just one notch below Kimbrel.

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jan 1, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Jaime Garcia

Anyone know how he is recovering from surgery? When he is expected back? How the injury effects his future and his ETA? And what his grade would be for the future (just guess)? Any update would be appreciated.

by The Colonel on Dec 30, 2008 8:10 PM EST reply actions  

Garcia

I do not think he is expected to throw a pitch in 2009, but he should be healthy for the start of 2010.

by guru4u on Dec 31, 2008 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

garcia

he had the surgery pretty late so I am not sure what kind of update there would be unless you want to know if he has stepped up from the yellow rubber band to the orange one in PT, you might want to get some guy on the training staff to email you some daily updates if you care that much, otherwise he is a long way off

by IHateMitchMustain on Dec 30, 2008 10:01 PM EST reply actions  

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