Julio Teheran: Phenom?

by Dewey Finn on Dec 28, 2008 1:18 AM EST Comment 53 comments

It has been said that Braves righthander Julio Teheran has the best stuff of any 16-year-old pitcher in recent memory. Felix Hernandez was a pitcher in recent memory. How do they compare at the same age?

Steve Haws
Las Vegas

The top pitcher on the Latin American market last summer, Teheran signed for $850,000. A Colombian, he showed off a 94-95 mph fastball, a late-biting 78-79 mph curveball and an 81-82 mph changeup with nice sink during instructional league. I'm anxious to see how he does in his pro debut this year, because he does have the best arm among international amateurs since Hernandez signed with the Mariners for $710,000 in 2002.

We don't have any scouting reports on Hernandez when he was 16. The following year, he was dominating the short-season Northwest League with a mid-90s fastball, a devastating curveball and a changeup. At 6-foot-3 and 170 pounds, Hernandez was an inch taller and 10 pounds heavier than Teheran is now.

In other words, they're very comparable. And that's a good omen for Teheran and the Braves, because Hernandez is the best pitching prospect of the decade thus far. His major league career to this point hasn't been too shabby either. He has gone 30-25, 3.94 with a 418-136 K-BB ratio in 466 innings—and he's still just 21.

This Q&A took place in January ('08).

Since then, Teheran debuted in the Appy league as a 17 year old. His stats:

6.60 ERA, 1.47 WHIP, 15 IP, 17 K, 4 BBs, 1.27 GO/AO

As you can see, he didn't exactly light the world on fire. However, the strong strikeout (& K/BB) and groundball rates do make me optimistic about his future. There is one concern however. He was shutdown early due to tenderness in the shoulder. I've read on a few sites that Braves officials have insiststed that it was nothing serious and that they were taking an extra cautious approach with their young arm. I guess that's somewhat comforting, but we won't know for sure until next season. At this point, it looks like he will be in Michael Inoa's shadow, but Teheran might have better stuff.

What are your thoughts on Julio Teheran?

12 recs | Comment 53 comments

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Comments

Once again, please don't rec this post

I think people are getting annoyed.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 28, 2008 1:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

+1, it's not funny anymore

People can sort out the flack from facts. There is no real rational reason for one faceless person to deride another faceless person. If you do not believe what he is saying is true, make a reply to that effect, instead of “recommending” it.

by tdot mariner fan on Dec 28, 2008 1:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Gotta love

the 5th grade mentality around here sometimes…

by slurve on Dec 28, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

This is what I would expect from guys like Paul Thomas. If I think someone put a lot of work into something I will recommend it (i.e. Dewey’s sleeper arms). Otherwise, doing so because you think it is ‘funny’ is sad and pathetic.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 28, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

by slurve on Dec 28, 2008 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re

Has PaulThomas ever done anything to suggest he’s something other than a very bright poster? Let alone suggested immaturity?

by blee1134 on Dec 28, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

I think he often has insight and intelligence to offer, but he’s also prone to extreme arrogance and being downright hostile to other people. And he rarely holds his own opinions to the same standards of scrutiny that he holds other people’s.

But no, I don’t think he’s petty enough to recommend Dewey’s posts. I figured it was just over-exuberant Rangers fans.

by aap212 on Dec 28, 2008 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

He’s full of himself, but this doesn’t seem like something PT would do here. He rather just come in and rip Dewey to shreds. He kind of reminds me of old CrimsonLiederhosen in that regard.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Dec 28, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He did do it:

Taken from Paul Thomas’ history:

Recommended Julio Teheran: Phenom? on Minor League Ball – 12/28/08 2:20 AM EST
Recommended Dewey’s Hot 99 Prospects on Minor League Ball – 12/27/08 2:49 PM EST
Recommended Dewey’s Report Card: The “B” List on Minor League Ball – 12/26/08 11:53 PM EST
Recommended Howie Kendrick: Breakout Candidate? on Minor League Ball – 12/26/08 11:52 PM EST

I wouldn’t make an accuastion like this if I couldn’t back it up with facts.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 28, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Then I take it back and claim the opposite.

by aap212 on Dec 28, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Never said you wouldn't

It just seems a little out of character for him. He’s usually much more mean spirited about things.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Dec 28, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who cares if you're arrogant and hostile...

If you back your opinions up? What, is he gonna hurt your feelings? Over a message board?

I’d rather argue with somebody arrogant like PT who supports his arguments, rather than Dewey who never backs anything up with anything of substance. It’s always a “gut feeling”. Screw that. Gimme the guy who’s going to have an intelligent debate.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 28, 2008 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like to think outside the box

Paul Thomas’ biased and narrow-minded opinions don’t carry weight in my book.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 28, 2008 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To hero66

1) His hostility and arrogance sometimes detract from his ability to construct a good argument. I like debating and discussing with someone who will bring intelligence and substance to the table, but not if they immediately invalidate an opinion different from there’s or are constantly teetering on “Screw you guys, I’m going home” territory.

2) I was responding to the question of whether he’s ever been anything other than a very bright poster. I mentioned a couple of other things he is. It also turns out he’s recommending Dewey’s posts to be a jerk.

by aap212 on Dec 28, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WOAH!!!!!

I find it funny you feel that "Dewey who never backs anything up with anything of substance. It’s always a "gut feeling." This is very interesting since you have recommended Dewey’s last THREE posts.

From hero66’s history:

Recommended Julio Teheran: Phenom? on Minor League Ball – 12/28/08 12:38 PM EST
Recommended #1 Strasburg… then who? on Minor League Ball – 12/28/08 4:59 PM EST
Recommended Howie Kendrick: Breakout Candidate? on Minor League Ball – 12/26/08 2:46 PM EST

This immaturity really needs to stop as it is derailing from the quality of the site. Let the BEST fanposts make the recommended fanposts section and not use it simply as a tool to amuse yourself.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 28, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Definitely not on the same level as the SPT, but equally mean-spirited…

by slurve on Dec 28, 2008 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

SPT?

Something Paul Thomas? Is that the acronym?

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 28, 2008 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My bad...

Sock Puppet Trinity of last year. Some douche had a bunch of accounts and went from thread to thread inciting flamewars and supporting himself with his dummy accounts. It got pretty bad around here for a while.

by slurve on Dec 28, 2008 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

When did I deny Rec'ing his posts?

I actually never knew that that’s how they got up to the top until a couple days ago, as I havent been posting here very long.

Once I saw that his threads had like 5 or 6 Rec’s, I thought it was funny, so I added one for the heII of it, this one being the exception obviously. I have no problem admitting it.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 28, 2008 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't buy it

it wasn’t question of denying it or not – it was a question of being a douche by making the rec’s – which looks to be the case as it wasn’t a one time / innocent occurrence.

by slurve on Dec 28, 2008 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Point is

It seemed like he was doing that to “oust” me in some way, and I never denied doing it. I’ll do whatever I want, and if you dont like it, oh well. I’m not hurting anybody.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 28, 2008 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OK Cartman

by slurve on Dec 28, 2008 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How old are you?

“I’ll do whatever I want, and if you dont like it, oh well”…..my 5 year old niece says the same thing.

by cubsfan1 on Dec 28, 2008 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Doesnt matter.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 28, 2008 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this is

the same poster who got upset at the idea of a manager having any value to a team or player’s development….yeah….’nuf said

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Dec 30, 2008 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

He did recommend Dewey’s posts in an attempt to be ‘funny’ or spiteful.

Taken from Paul Thomas’ history:

Recommended Julio Teheran: Phenom? on Minor League Ball – 12/28/08 2:20 AM EST
Recommended Dewey’s Hot 99 Prospects on Minor League Ball – 12/27/08 2:49 PM EST
Recommended Dewey’s Report Card: The "B" List on Minor League Ball – 12/26/08 11:53 PM EST
Recommended Howie Kendrick: Breakout Candidate? on Minor League Ball – 12/26/08 11:52 PM EST

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 28, 2008 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for exposing Paul Thomas for what he really is.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 28, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

At the same time

You’re stoking the fire Dewey. You’ve basically made 1 fanpost per day for a week now – quite a spike from your normal level and 3 or 4 of them were after you were aware of the “rec-stuffing”

by slurve on Dec 28, 2008 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Am I the only

who wouldn’t be totally surprised if PT and Dewey were both personalities belonging to someone with DID, with each individual personality battling for total control and it spilling over here?

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Dec 28, 2008 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I know Dewey

Dewey is an old friend of mine and while I often disagree with his opinions on prospects, he does post what he believes. And yes, he is as crazy in real life as he is on this blog!!!!

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Dec 28, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes

we don’t know people as well as we think we do either..

by slurve on Dec 28, 2008 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am on holidays dude!

I should be pretty active until school starts back up (2nd week of January).

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 28, 2008 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Gatling's theory

Or remember how the guys behind Fire Joe Morgan turned out to be TV writers? Maybe this is someone practicing character development.

by aap212 on Dec 28, 2008 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Even so

you’ve been aware of the rec problem. I’m not saying to stop posting altogether, but making new fanposts is asking for it at this point

by slurve on Dec 28, 2008 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Alright

Clearly this is becoming a problem and I will ease up on the posting.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 28, 2008 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

especially when you say "don't rec this"

it’s like the drunk girl at a frat party “oh man, i’m so wasted”

sit*

by U-God on Dec 28, 2008 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It IS funny...

It’s such a perfect satire of the guy. The SBN version of the Midas touch.

If you can’t see the humor of it, it’s your loss.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 28, 2008 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

I find it hilarious.

And doesnt everyone always say he starts good discussions anyway? Well then who cares if they’re put up at the top?

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Dec 28, 2008 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If he can't see the humor in it...

Maybe it’s because it’s not terribly funny, or because you ran it into the ground. At a certain point you’re just disrupting a site that doesn’t belong to you or Dewey.

by aap212 on Dec 28, 2008 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by cubsfan1 on Dec 28, 2008 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I "ran it into the ground"?

Have you somehow acquired the impression that I’m responsible for this? I latched on to a bandwagon of mockery which was already well in motion before I set foot on the running board. And did so in a quiet way.

I have my moments of truculence, of which this is most definitely one— but they certainly don’t extend to spouting gratuitous personal attacks on other posters in multiple unrelated threads. I’ve had enough of it, to be honest. I’ll forgive a certain amount of bickering but Dewey has spouted more than enough loathsome snot to make me a permanent enemy of his. And, believe me, while I don’t form grudges lightly, I am an exceptionally vindictive person when I develop one.

It turns out spite is not an irrational emotion, when you think about it in the right way. It actually serves a rather useful evolutionary purpose— to discourage Person A from insulting Person B’s self-respect to such an extent that Person B is willing to sacrifice himself to take Person A down with him. Normally, this tends to cause people to behave respectfully toward others, but unfortunately that tendency depends on Person A actually having some kind of conscience. Which does not appear to be the case here.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 29, 2008 12:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You could also take the high road

I’m not a huge fan of Dewey’s contributions much of the time, and his posting has been excessive, but whether or not you’re solely responsible for recommending the posts, it’s obnoxious and it mucks up the site. Simply saying, “Hey, if you want to create original posts twice a day, create your own blog and do it there,” and watching three dozen people say “+1” would have been more mature than latching onto something like this.

by aap212 on Dec 29, 2008 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not to be immature

but who the fuck cares? And just to clarify, that comments is directly not just to you, but to DF, PT and all the other people who recommend or oppose these ridiculous fanposts

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Dec 29, 2008 1:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Another Q&A from Jim Callis

Nick Papageorgio (Yuma, AZ): Is this Julio Teheran kid legit? His most recent scouting reports are insane…sitting at 95 with a plus change as well as two other potential plus pitches. At 16 years old?!?! Is this guy the next Felix Hernandez?

Jim Callis: Well, he hasn’t made his pro debut yet. But if you read the scouting report we posted as part of our Braves Top 10 list at baseballamerica.com, he did sound ridiculously talented. I haven’t read a scouting report like that on a Latin American teenager since . . . since whenever. Can’t wait to see him pitch next year.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 28, 2008 1:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

From CBS

Julio Teheran – Teheran, who has garnered a lot of attention during his short pro career, was limited to only 15 innings in 2008 due to shoulder tendinitis. It’s not that it was very serious, but with the kind of talent this 17-year old possesses, the Braves are taking no chances. Teheran’s value is all in his scouting report at this point. He’s got a very loose arm action that allows his fastball to reach the mid-90’s with ease, but what separates him from other teenage power pitchers is the rest of his arsenal. Along with the fastball, Teheran throws an advanced change in the low-80’s with quite a bit of sink, along with a hard curve in the high-70’s. His mechanics are still a bit inconsistent which causes some control issues but that’s not at all a big concern right now. If prospects were ranked purely on potential, Teheran would be among the elite prospects in the game, but he is still a long way off. If he can pitch an entire season, Teheran could very well jump up into the game’s elite pitching prospects.

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 28, 2008 1:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

lol

Founder of the Johnny Giavotella fan club.

by doublestix on Dec 28, 2008 2:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Any thoughts you guys?

Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!

by Dewey Finn on Dec 28, 2008 4:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

He seems to be

in a no lose situation right now. He has tremendous scouting reports, so if he does well or even very well it can be looked at as just living up to his potential. If he struggles, he’s young enough with such little experience you can’t really knock him either. I’m glad to see most people being cautious with their grades/rankings of him, because I just don’t buy into ranking guys super high based just on scouting reports. Putting him in the C+ range(where I have Inoa also) is about right. Let them prove the reports right before going crazy. If he does go out and really show us all something on the field, then by all means let’s really move up some lists, but not until then.

As for your questions:

1. He’s regarded as a phenom as far as I know, based on his age and scouting reports. I don’t really know that it should be a question.

2. He could easily take a big step forward, and just as easily not impress. That’s the nature of prospects like Teheran, Inoa, etc.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Dec 28, 2008 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

I’d say that the scouting reports are incredibly encouraging, but I’d like to see the kid learn how to pitch. Control, command, performing under pressure, all of these things are useful to learn and until he makes strides in these areas, he’s only a little better than any other low minor pitcher with gobs of stuff.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Dec 28, 2008 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Really need to see some results before I get too terribly excited. I’m all for high upside, but it is nice to see something on the field.

by guru4u on Dec 28, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I know I haven’t been spending much time on this site the past couple of weeks but what exactly is the problem here? That Dewey is posting to much on a web site whose traffic, content and activity has been done for some time? That most of those posts have been about topics that much of the community are interested in? Did I miss a thread in particular where Dewey actually did something wrong or something that John wouldn’t like instead of simply increasing activity/discussion?

Seriously I just read 8 or more threads where a certain small group of posters seem to be arguing that it doesn’t matter how rude or obnoxious they are because it’s a message board, things shouldn’t be taken to seriously because it’s a message boards and that they will do and say whatever they want but at the same time seem to be taking offense to one poster posting on a message board. Aren’t you supposed to post on a message board? The funniest thing about this whole situation is how immature some of you are coming off and the fact that you are aware of it but yet somehow feel justified. The internet is an amazing thing; the anonymity it provides allows people to act however they feel with nearly no consequences and anywhere else this sort of behavior would be looked down upon but it’s seemingly encouraged in the virtual world. Unless I’m missing a thread somewhere where Dewey actually did something wrong, you all need to get a life, take teh sticks out of your asses and come down off of that pedestal you are on.

by jfish26101 on Dec 31, 2008 7:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed 100%. Dewey is good ratings

He’s not overrunning the threads, he’s actually moderately opinionated and doesn’t come off as unintelligent or arrogant and if people feel immature enough to make a joke out of it, normally I’d say that’s fine, but he’s politely and repeatedly made it clear that he finds it irksome. Now, I’d suggest putting the issue to rest, as asking the commenters to stop reccing is only provocative to them and if we ignore it it will go away eventually. I might suggest that there are more vast and liberal boards out there that won’t make fun of the issue, but as it is there’s nothing wrong with it.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 3, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

phenom? LOL

you’ve pitched 18 minor league innings and got shut down, someone needs better workout/conditioning, lets see him play a full year and then see if we still say anything NEAR the hype this guy has gotten, I don’t believe it. Guys like Bumgarner, Tillman, Cahill, have proved they are great, this guy hasn’t. I rest my case.

by Dray1996 on Jan 2, 2009 11:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs