Community Prospect List: #34
by King Billy Royal on Nov 5, 2008 5:03 PM EST
104 comments
After 217 votes in the runoff poll Matt Gamel has been declared the winner with 53%. Jesus Montero came in second place with 46%. Jeremy Hellickson will be removed from the poll as he received less then 5%. Alcides Escobar and Matt Dominguez will be added to the poll. If you wish to vote other just list the person below. This way we're not wasting a spot.
1. MATT WIETERS - C (Baltimore)
2. DAVID PRICE - SP (Tampa Bay)
3. JASON HEYWARD - OF (Atlanta)
4. TRAVIS SNIDER - OF (Toronto)
5. MADISON BUMGARNER - SP (San Francisco)
6. COLBY RASMUS - OF (St. Louis)
7. CAMERON MAYBIN - OF (Florida)
8. TREVOR CAHILL - SP (Oakland)
9. NEFTALI FELIZ - SP (Texas)
10. MATT LAPORTA - 1B/OF/DH (Cleveland)
11. MIKE MOUSTAKAS - 3B (Kansas City)
12. TIM ALDERSON - SP (San Francisco)
13. PEDRO ALVAREZ - 3B (Pittsburgh)
14. RICK PORCELLO - SP (Detroit)
15. DEXTER FOWLER - OF (Colorado)
16. BRETT ANDERSON - SP (Oakland)*
17. DEREK HOLLAND - SP (Texas)
18. ANDREW McCUTCHEN - OF (Pittsburgh)
19. BUSTER POSEY - C (San Francisco)
20. CHRIS TILLMAN - SP (Baltimore)
21. LARS ANDERSON - 1B (Boston)
22. JUSTIN SMOAK - 1B (Texas)
23. THOMAS HANSON - SP (Atlanta)
24. ELVIS ANDRUS - SS (Texas)
25. ANGEL VILLALONA - 1B (San Francisco)
26. JHOULYS CHACIN - SP (Colorado)
27. BRIAN MATUSZ - SP (Baltimore)
28. ERIC HOSMER - 1B (Kansas City)
29. TIM BECKHAM - SS (Tampa)
30. MAX RAMIREZ - C/1B (Texas)
31. JARROD PARKER - SP (Arizona)
32. MICHAEL STANTON - OF (Florida)
33. MATT GAMEL - 3B (Milwaukee)
CANDIDATES - Fernando Martinez, Freddie Freeman, Josh Vitters, Jesus Montero, Brett Wallace, Wade Davis, Jordan Schafer, Carlos Triunfel, Alcides Escobar, Matt Dominguez
TESTERS - Greg Halman, Michael Saunders, Gordon Beckham, Ben Revere, James McDonald, Michael Bowden, Yonder Alonso, Austin Jackson, Philippe Aumont, Carlos Santana, Logan Morrison, Wilmer Flores, Brett Cecil, Chris Carter, Jeremy Hellickson, Reid Brignac, Jordan Zimmermann, Jose Tabata
Please post more ideas for testers and we will consider them
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VOTE FOR JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Montero
His numbers and scouting reports speak for themselves:
18 years old
.326 AVG
.491 SLG
.867 OPS
17 HR
525 AB
83 Ks
Scouts rave about his swing and believe that his bat will play at either 1B, OF, or DH down the line. John Sickels stated:
“He is still just 18, and hitting like this in a full-season league is an excellent marker at that age.”
Kevin Goldstein loves his bat saying “Wonderful offensive prospect who projects to hit for average and power. " When asked if scouts believe that Montero’s power is an 80 on the scouting scale he said "By some, absolutely. It’s monster power.”
Thoughts:
Jesus’ bat is tremondous and while he likely will not stick at catcher he has the ability to be a great power with a high average. He made very good contact for a power hitting 18 year old in full season ball striking out only 83 times in 525 at bats. That is relatively half the amount of times Stanton struck out. Montero is looking to be an impact power hitter and it is time to put him on the list.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 5, 2008 5:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
you convinced me
ok, jesus it is. and I’ll vote for morrison or santana next if they get back on the ballot.
by wobatus on Nov 5, 2008 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I like Montero here too.
Tester - After reading BA today, it looks like Jake Arrieta should be on this list pronto. would also like to see Andrew Lambo and Jason Donald around 40-50 .
by RoyalsFan4Life on Nov 5, 2008 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Add Carlos Santana already!
He’s more major-league ready and had better numbers than Montero, so despite being older he should still be in the discussion and on the polls. He’s more likely to stick at the catcher position and hit .326 with 21 HR in 463 ABs for a .999 OPS, way better than Montero’s or any other minor league catcher not named Matt Wieters.
The 2008 Rogelio Moret League Fantasy Baseball Champions!
by The Congo Hammer on Nov 5, 2008 5:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Montero...
I am about to vote Montero, but I also would like to see Santana on the next poll. If he were on this one I would vote for him. But since he is a “write-in” he won’t win, it’s like voting independant now. You’re not going to win, only make a statement… and I can do that right now.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Nov 5, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has been on already
Santana has had a few testers already but he hasn’t garnered the support to stay on the ballot. He was on the ballot at #29, and #22. I will try to get him on again in the next few polls.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 5, 2008 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i know
But I don’t think he really deserved a spot in the 20s, he had some superior competition. However, I think this is right where he belongs and the relative dropoff in talent means he will generate a lot more support this time around. Especially if Montero wins this poll, he’ll get support as I think many of Santana’s potential votes are currently going to Montero, I know it’s a tough choice for me as well.
The 2008 Rogelio Moret League Fantasy Baseball Champions!
by The Congo Hammer on Nov 5, 2008 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Schafer
Really underrated here IMO. Sweet tools, improving ability to hit for power and a solid eye at the plate. As much as I love some of the bats on this list, a lot of them are going to be clunkers in the field while Schafer is bringing good outfield defense, most likely in CF. I’d take Rasmus over him, but I like him more than any other CF prospect.
As a side note, this seems really early for Matt Dominguez, doesn’t it? And I say that as somebody who really likes Dominguez.
by mrkupe on Nov 5, 2008 5:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wade Davis
The lone non-SNTS guy. He never had to “come out of nowhere” because he’s always been good. Solid 3-pitch arsenal. Ideal pitcher’s size and the only one of these guys who’s even sniffed AAA.
The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns.
by mckeeno on Nov 5, 2008 5:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 5, 2008 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He is next in line for me.
I am a big Davis supporter.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 5, 2008 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
schafer
until he’s on
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 5, 2008 5:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
on Schafer, until he’s on.
Many posters point to “Major-League Ready” as a criterion for their vote. In that case, would it be too early to throw Carlos Carrasco out…at least as a tester? He had a solid season at AA, and held his own after a late-season promotion to AAA. Just curious what the group thinks of (the other) CC…
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Nov 5, 2008 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Schafer
and for christ’s sake, give Chris Carter one poll. If he gets like zero votes, fine, I’ll shut up about him for a while. Given that there are guys who have been put on and hammered down like 3 times now, it’s getting more than a little ridiculous that he’s not even getting a trial run.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 7:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please
Please stop the whining. I told you when Carter was put on as a tester that it would be a bit before he got on a poll. Cecil and Flores were put on the tester list before him and they still haven’t got on a poll either. Carter will be coming up on a poll fairly soon so be patient. He likely would have been on already except that we have only had 2 guys come off each of the last 2 polls when we usually have had 3-4 come off. Personally, I think that your whining is ‘getting more than a little ridiculous’.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 5, 2008 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My patience ran out quite some time ago
and your misquotings and insinuations a few polls ago didn’t exactly do wonders for my attitude.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know, in retrospect this seems unduly asinine even by my standards
So, I apologize for the tone, though not for the arguments.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Carter
I don’t see much different between Chris Carter and Michael Stanton . . .I would say that Carter definitely needs to get on this list.
Carter has great power (75 XBH) with a good batting eye (13% BB) while striking out less than Stanton (26 vs. 29%)
by gunkdog on Nov 6, 2008 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From Poll 31:
“Please remember that if we don’t put Carter on a poll in the next while that it is because we already have a LOT of testers ahead of him. I hope this addresses your issues.”
He will be on the poll in the next 3-4 polls so be patient and he will get on the ballot.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 5, 2008 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Wallace
Wallace is going to as big of a mistake, being as low on this list, as Ryan Braun was a few years ago. Its going to look kind of silly really. Its really funny too. it isnt like his hitting ability is particularily hard to see either. I think he’s a better hitting talent than say, #4 Travis Snider.
Hey thats the communty list for ya. Im just one opinion but I’ll be right though. hes gonna HIT…Lance Berkman hit. We dont care if lance berkman plays a good 3b do we folks?
by casejud on Nov 5, 2008 5:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Eh
You are right. Wallace will hit. But other guys are going to hit too.
This list is really pitcher heavy towards the top, and I’m not really sure why that is . . .there’s a few really good guys this year (Price, Bummy, Cahill, Porcello) but the likes of Derek Holland and Chris Tillman aren’t thrilling me.
by mrkupe on Nov 5, 2008 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say...
he would hit. I said he would HIT…like really hit. I’d say Rasmus, Fowler, Andrus, McCutchen and especially Beckham aren’t even good minor league hitters. He’d going to be a way better player than ALL those guys IMO.
by casejud on Nov 5, 2008 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Better hitter, seems very possible. But the guys you listed all play premium positions, and some of them do it very well.
Rasmus seems like a plenty good hitter. With the exception of a few bad weeks to start his 2008, he’s mashed for the last 3 years.
by mrkupe on Nov 6, 2008 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rasmus
Has about as good a minors hitting record as Andruw Jones, if not a bit worse. Nothing wrong with that but you may notice than a lot of the guys who were thought to be great and haven’t ..Andy Marte, Alex Gordon, Chris Young… were guys who couldn’t hit .300 in the minors. People just keep making excuses for him but i don’t see a great major league hitter there. Rasmus could, maybe end up being an above average hitter as a CF but Wallace could end up being Edgar Martinez or Lance Berkman with that bat.
David Ortiz’s are valuable too and that is Wallace’s potential IMO. He’s being sold short.
Believe me, I love hitters at premium positions but I’m not sold on ANY of those players as above average hitters, even for thier positions.
by casejud on Nov 6, 2008 1:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like cherrypicking
All sorts of polished hitters have failed to develop from similar statures.
by aap212 on Nov 6, 2008 2:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
UM
Are you speaking of rasmus or of Wallace. I don’t get it.
by casejud on Nov 6, 2008 3:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rasmus
i think you’re cherrypicking when you name three guys who had relatively low batting averages in the minors (one of them incorrectly) and have been disappointing in the majors, and try to draw a conclusion from that. Sure, they represent one possible path. But Ramus’ minor league career batting average is higher than Carlos Beltran’s was, for instance. And if Brett Wallace hits like Beltran as a first baseman, he will have been a pretty good draft pick. If Ramus hits remotely like him, he will have been an outstanding draft pick.
Also, as I was saying, you can point to guys with low batting averages in the minors that have failed, but it’s not like Brett Wallace would be the first polished star college hitter to bust.
by aap212 on Nov 6, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
I have no reason to cherrypick though. I have nothing against Rasmus, I just want to accurate. You are acting like the failure of prospects to be big leaguers is more of a random t6hing and I’m saying you can find tendencies and one BIG one is highly touted guys who have good peripheral skills…power, walks, defensive value..but can’t hit .280 consistently. They become busts often.
The problem with the Beltran comp, and why Rasmus still has some things going for him, is that while Beltran was still young he started to kill the ball… 1.114 OPS at Wichita at age 21…big leagues at age 22.
Brett Wallace is NOT going to bust and that is that. Either you haven’t seen him swing much so I’ll give you the benifit of the doubt or you can’t recogize hitting talent well. Thats okay though but I’m telling you, he is such a hitter… another LEAGUE from Rasmus. Just my opinion, of course.
by casejud on Nov 6, 2008 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
Your opinion is your opinion. And if Wallace’s swing looks that great to you, cool. But I still worry that your criticism of Rasmus is unfair. Yes, I think there is some randomness to prospect success, but I obviously appreciate the importance of identifying tendencies. But I think you’ve based a tendency on a few cherrypicked failures. I also think you might be overrating a polished college hitter who has played well against less advanced competition, has no defensive value, and thus far hasn’t shown a ton of power as a pro. And I’m not saying that Ramus is the next Beltran, but I think he fits a similar performance profile in regard to the tendency you were concerned about—just a step down from Beltran across the board.
by aap212 on Nov 6, 2008 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough to you
Check it out yourself if you like. Take a list of guys who everybody thought were great and look at thier minor league batting averages…especially when they are older 22, 23, 24. I’m not writing off Rasmus. I think he’s a big leaguer. I’m just expressing doubt that he’ll be a great hitter.
As far as Wallace, fair enough sort of except I’d ammend your summation of his pro performance from “Hasn’t hit for much power as a pro so far” to " Entered the Midwest League right after the College season ended and RAKED the hell out of the ball, then whe promoted to AA continued to rake the hell out of the ball there"
It’s funny how he had inferiour competition in College yet he seemlessly raked in 2 professional leagues 2 months after leaving there. Almost seems like his competion had him kinda prepared, doesn’t it?
BTW, Brett Wallace’s ranks, out of 14 teams in some defensive categories while he was there…
Plays per 9/Range: 7th
Fielding Pct: 1ST!
Looking at the numbers i find it hard to believe that he wasn’t the best fielding 3b in that league. Sure he was maybe the most polished but there were several teams who had sub .900 pcts from thier 3b.
Also almost every 3b in the league had far more errors than they turned double plays, which is very good and easy way to look at the skill of a 3b.
Wallace had 6 errors and 12 2ps in 36 games in the MWL. He was the leagues most sure handed 3b and would have led the league in dp had he played there all year. Nobody wants to talk about defensive PERFORMANCE though. They just want to spout off when they havent even watched a guy.
I’ll bet you RIGHT NOW that Wallace ends up a 3b who is like Carney Lansford was…not super rangy but sure handed and SOLID. That is having some defensive value.
by casejud on Nov 7, 2008 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If I may
Rather than Carney Lansford, strictly on defense, perhaps Wallace can be like Giambi or Thome, guys who were perfectly passable until they just got too big and clunky (but with the bats to get away with it). Again, just on defense there.
As for Rasmus, I’ve never said he would be a great player, and again, I think most top prospects come with unrealistic expectations. I think his upside is Ray Lankford. That’s a very, very good player, and to my mind, more likely than a Wallace outcome that’s more valuable.
by aap212 on Nov 7, 2008 1:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alex Gordon
In his one minor league season he hit .325 with a .588 slugging.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 6, 2008 2:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Duly noted
my bad. Although it supports my argument some… Gordons season in the same league was better and he doesn’t look like a great hitter.
I know Rasmus is/was younger. I know he had some injuries this year. I know he has time on his side but his record looks like that of a guy who isn’t going to be a real good hitter.
Maybe between Chris Young and Andruw Jones as a CF, not a bad player.
Wallace doesn’t have this problem. I think he’s a priemium bat.
by casejud on Nov 6, 2008 3:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, well, if he's only as good as Andruw Jones
Just because he forgot how to hit when he turned 30 doesn’t mean Andruw Jones was an awfully good player. Even with his recent collapse, his career OPS+ is 111 while providing outstanding defense in center field over 13 years.
That being said, comparing Rasmus to Jones is kind of weak; at age 18, Jones had an .884 OPS in A ball. At 19, he had a 1.024 OPS at A+, an 1107 OPS in AA, a 1213 OPS (in 45 ABs) in AAA, and then survived (a .708 OPS in the majors). At age 19. When Colby Rasmus was 19, he couldn’t get an .800 OPS in A+ ball. (Yes, I’m being glib, but the point still stands). Andruw Jones was one of the great prospects, and frankly, at his peak, was an astounding player. Rasmus may be really good, but he has a ways to go
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 6, 2008 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually agree
I meant to say that Jones isn’t/wasn’t generally thought of as one of the better hitters in the league while he was playing, just a player who was an outstanding hitter for his POSITION and the fact that his defense was outstanding. I meant this more to say that this is what people on here call a “ceiling” for Rasmus. He DOES have a ways to go but the generall perception on here is that he was going to be a btter hitter than Jones and that looks unlikely to me. I don’t see any evidence of it anyways.
by casejud on Nov 6, 2008 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't project for 40 HR power
Lance Berkman does.
by Take3 on Nov 5, 2008 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So was his
"…But his bat is absolutely for real. Massive power potential to all fields and he should hit for average as well. " -John Sickels
Thats a little better isn’t it. Have you seen him swing? Short, compact swing…doesn’t swing through a lot of balls… strong to all fields…good eye to maximize the power. He just LOOKS like a run producer up there plus he’s done nothing as a pro to show any different. I think he’s a top 10 prospect just with the bat regardless of if he stays at 3b. He ends up a better hitter than all these guys except possibly Alvarez and maybe Stanton.
by casejud on Nov 6, 2008 1:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still wouldn't write him in for 40 homers yet
That’s a little extreme. I think he’ll be a terrific hitter, but that’s overdoing it.
by aap212 on Nov 6, 2008 1:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I said he’d be a hitter like Edgar Martinez or Lance Berkman and Edgar never hit 40 and Berkman has done it only twice. What I think is he can hit .300-.330 annually with 30 homers, 80-100 walks or significantly better than that in a good year.
by casejud on Nov 6, 2008 2:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Other - Logan Morrison
Again today 3-5 including his 5th AFL Hr. The guy is raking and on fire and should have been on this list by now.
by MightyMoose on Nov 5, 2008 6:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Slowey is a control freak, and I like it!!
by melonhead202 on Nov 6, 2008 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
can we get a Brignac tester?
this is about where i would place him , but i know others aren’t as high on him as I.
i do think he should be before Hellickson though
by daveh33 on Nov 5, 2008 6:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I will try to remember him when I next do a poll.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 5, 2008 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry don't see it
Unimpressive last season and wasn’t much better the year before. I think he’s better suited in the second half of this list.
by uwbadger on Nov 5, 2008 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't wait to see "Jews for Jesus" signs at the stadium
That will make me want to like Yankee fans.
by aap212 on Nov 5, 2008 7:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Testers
Revere is next on my list, but I voted Dominguez here, since he’s only a few spots further down and since I have been campaigning for him and because I want him to stay on the poll.
More to consider as testers:
- C. Carrasco – Underrated guy. I saw him pitch and was impressed. Sat around 93 and hit 96. My highest-ranked pitcher who’s not already a tester.
- D. Jennings – I understand the injury concerns, but he’s healthy now and playing in the AFL. Plus speed, plus defender and excellent plate discipline. Also, some pop.
- Briggy (mentioned by DaveH, above)
Also, if Carter can get a tester, Blanks should, too. And if F-Mart can get on the poll, Tabata should, too.
by rhd on Nov 5, 2008 7:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'd vote Hicks over Revere
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 5, 2008 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+9374507
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOVE Hicks
Another great pick by the Twinkies. He belongs in the 40-50 range IMO, and thus should be coming up as a tester fairly soon.
by guru4u on Nov 6, 2008 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wallace
Not much pro experience, but imo the bat is for real and it is ready now.
by matt0177 on Nov 5, 2008 7:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Matt domginez :)
296/354/499/853
18 Homeruns
Started the year very sick as well and and then picked it up. looking at his numbers before May you can see it. then it just skyrocketed then. A very solid preformance from a player with a known great glove. I like seeing him up on the pole. He deserves it just as much as Montero if not more whom will be just a DH.
His power really picked up in the second half of the season as he started to get healthier.
by Fishfan79 on Nov 5, 2008 8:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
James McDonald
People did see McDonald pitching with the Dodgers this year, correct? You know, like in the postseason, mowing down batters left right and center…
I've got a McPheever, and only JoJo Reyes can help me!
by Buzz Bissinger on Nov 5, 2008 8:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
BTW...
In today’s ESPN chat, Callis ranks Max Ramirez as TExas’ #4 catcher, behind TEagarden, Salty and Laird. Of course, he’s considering who will actually play C in Texas, not who has the best bat. Anyway, Ramirez ranked above Stanton could look REAL silly this time next year.
by rhd on Nov 5, 2008 8:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
2 spots
big whoop
Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.
by wildthang on Nov 5, 2008 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My point is...
Ramirez belongs, not 2 spots, but more like 62 spots below where he is. And Stanton IMO belongs even higher.
by rhd on Nov 5, 2008 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's a no-brainer here........
it has to be montero and then morrison………there is no way you can put freeman ahead of morrison………even if morrison doesn’t go next, he HAS to go before freeman.
by psugator on Nov 5, 2008 8:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Morrison
I’m not sure which tools he has. He has one year where he shows great pop, and another where he hits for average. So far I think that in 3 or 4 years, he’ll hit for a few .850 OPS seasons, have one prime year and fizzle out. If he were closer to the majors that’d be in the Top 25, but that doesn’t scratch Top 50 at his point in development IMO.
by METSMETSMETS on Nov 5, 2008 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what exactly has F-Mart shown?
just curious. Morrison’s won a batting title in a pitcher’s league and pitcher’s home park and now is dominating in the AFL.
by RoyalsFan4Life on Nov 5, 2008 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To be quite honest
statistically he hasn’t put up great numbers at all, but had a great 17 year old stint in Low-A, and even though he was prematurely bumped to AA he held his own, and is now showing good plate discipline to go along with incredible bat speed and attractive build.
Morrison has performance on his side, but his goods and bads drastically changed in a small span of time which raises as many questions as there are about Martinez to me. Also, Age vs. Level is also a factor. While a 20 year old putting up a .900 OPS in A+ ball is great, how well would Morrison have done LAST year in AA?
by METSMETSMETS on Nov 5, 2008 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FSL?
Hardest to hit in parks in the league dude, They are hugely pitchers parks and a pitchers league he was working on his eye and swing there and hit a huge amount of doubles which in another league would be homeruns. He can put up the Homers easily.
by Fishfan79 on Nov 5, 2008 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
some of my doubts have been proven wrong, but honestly I’m still a bit skeptical.
by METSMETSMETS on Nov 5, 2008 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not Schafer?
I’ll take the plus-plus defense in CF along with the nice bat, thank you.
by mraver on Nov 5, 2008 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fernando
until he gets on. Maybe it’s Mets bias, but his potential production at LF is more valuable than all these 1B guys like Montero, Stanton, Freeman, Wallace.
by supermets on Nov 5, 2008 9:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
There is a substantial argument
for Stanton and Wallace, neither of whom I believe are 1B. But Freddie Freeman and Jesus Montero ahead of F-mart puzzles me.
by METSMETSMETS on Nov 5, 2008 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
non-Mets fan
But I agree. This list will look very silly in a year or two with Fernando M. having been down-graded because he’s not the flavor of the moment.
by scooter on Nov 5, 2008 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
alex escobar
I still say he’s gonna be great. He slugged .750 in my beer league last year.
by wobatus on Nov 5, 2008 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
stanton
He is in CF right now not 1st base and his numbers if you take a look are pretty impressive. I mean in one year he has had more homeruns then stanton has had so far in professional ball? He has 5 tools and can easily play anywhere in the OF. I agree Fmart I would take over Montero in a heartbeat personally. But I think alot of folks over-rate 1st baseman very few arent big numbers type players in the big leagues as it is expected to be a good numbers position.
by Fishfan79 on Nov 5, 2008 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stanton
Is an OF – and will likely play RF for the forseeable future. I know he’s been playing CF, but he has the arm for RF.
F-Mart, on the other hand, has not proven much of anything – other than his ability to hit for an empty average against older competition. He was overrated a couple years ago, and is just living off that reputation right now. Heck, some scouts have even doubted whether he will play the OF if he gets to the bigs.
I voted Montero, and will vote Wallace next.
by guru4u on Nov 6, 2008 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Other - Yonder Alonso
21 years old
First round top 10 draft pick
Great Plate Discipline
Great College Resume at a high level program
Hitting .313/.427/.513 in the Hawaiian Winter League currently with 16 walks/18 strikeouts.
by dougdirt on Nov 5, 2008 11:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
2 more walks so far tonight
That puts him at .313/.439/.513 through his first two plate appearances tonight with 18 walks and 18 strikeouts in 98 PA in Hawaii. He needs to start getting some serious consideration guys.
by dougdirt on Nov 6, 2008 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stp quoting HWL numbers
They’re not part of a good argument.
by aap212 on Nov 6, 2008 1:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No?
Why are they not part of a good argument? Are they not against other minor leaguers, most of which are viewed as quality prospects?
by dougdirt on Nov 6, 2008 1:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also
It is a tough hitting environment there from what I hear. That makes it even more significant. i look at it as just an extension of what I have seen of him than an argument. His best argument is himself as a player… he’s an on base machine, solid hitter to all fields, good power and the kind of top end worker who maximizes his skills.
He’s a great prospect and there isn’t any logical argument that Justin Smaok is a significantly better player than him yet it gets stated all the time on here. Don’t even talk about glove. Smaok won’t save a run per season more than Alonso. Thats bogus.
by casejud on Nov 6, 2008 1:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Small sample sizes, weaker pitchers than hitters overall
Doesn’t mean I dislike Alonso. But if you use HWL and AFL numbers, you can make arguments for all sorts of people over the years.
by aap212 on Nov 6, 2008 2:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HWL results
HWL actually has a pretty good track record. If you look over the last few years of who’s dominated, it’s a nice prospect list (Joba, Wieters to name a few). I take HWL numbers a lot more seriously than AFL.
Also, why is it the Hawaiian Winter League, when it’s the Arizona Fall League?
The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns.
by mckeeno on Nov 6, 2008 8:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because a Hawaiian winter
is like an Arizonan fall?
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by OldProspects on Nov 6, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I also have Alonso > Smoak
Although I will disagree about the defense…
I just think Alonso is a much better bet to hit in the majors for some reason.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Nov 6, 2008 2:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yonder has already got consideration
He is listed as a tester and has already been on the poll. He was recently listed on the #31 poll. So far he has been on polls #21, and #31.
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by King Billy Royal on Nov 6, 2008 2:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool
Not complaining about that. Just keeping up the support for him and stating my opinion that he should be on there soon.
by casejud on Nov 6, 2008 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stanton and Gamel in front of Montero?
We have either a bunch of biased or idiotic voters on this site.
by schmosterballs92 on Nov 6, 2008 9:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
These type posts really kill me
Rather than just bashing everyone, why don’t you actually take some time, look up some stats and scouting reports, and give us a well thought out argument why you feel this way?
If you are going to post, put some thought into it.
by guru4u on Nov 6, 2008 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Especially
Since Gamel is a lethal lefty bat and Stanton is just as young as Montero basically and has just as much power and will have more value with the glove as well.
by casejud on Nov 6, 2008 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's all how you use them
Saying that my guy may only have had a .400 OPS last year but now he has clearly turned a corner because he is raking in the AFL doesn’t make much sense. Saying that Julio Borbon’s improved batting eye of late bears watching because OBP is one of the biggest issues in his prospect status or that Chris Carter’s continued struggles to make contact are a big cautionary not are not invalid points simply because they took place in AFL and in the Hawaii. Its all a question of putting it in proper context.
by Dalman on Nov 6, 2008 10:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Chris Carter's AFL stats are better than his April stats, and in barely as many games to boot
The only difference is that the April stats are swallowed in his primary statline and the winter league stats are broken out separately.
I stand by the contention— winter league stats are worthless. If you feel like taking the time to roll them into a player’s total stats for the year and using that, knock yourself out, but in and of themselves they are a horribly, uselessly tiny sample of data.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 6, 2008 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but..
if Carter continued what he was doing in April throughout the year no one would be making a case for him for top #50. The point is the promise he showed as the season went along.
I like Carter, in fact he was one of my two minor league picks last year in my AL only fantasy league as I was looking for future power hitters (more immediate payoff on my other pick Chris Davis) and I resisted some offers for him.
Still I think it is going to be touch and go for him in AA this year to see if he can continue to hit for power while not getting swallowed up by the strikeouts, and yes I do think that what he has done in Hawaii is a small data point in the direction that this is a legitimate concern. Incidentally, he isn’t in AFL, he is in Hawaii, and I would cut him more slack if he was doing this in AFL as that is more equivalent to AA while Hawaii is more equivalent to A+.
by Dalman on Nov 6, 2008 12:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You appear to be missing the point here
Put the HWL stats into his statline for the year and it looks like he has not really changed since the end of the year.
Pull them out into a separate statline and it looks like he’s suddenly “struggling.” The natural human inclination is to treat two statlines the same, when in reality the A+ line should be weighed at least 6 times as heavily, perhaps even more than that. The upshot of this is that talking about winter ball stats separately is a bad idea that misleads people and causes ignorance and bad analysis. It should not be done. Ever.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 6, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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