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Community Prospect List: #69

Due to ballot stuffing Aaron Cunningham wins the runoff poll. J.P. Arencibia has been placed at #68 as standard procedure. Adam Miller, and Kila Ka'aihue are being removed from the poll due to a lack of support defined by having less than 5% of the vote. Jason Donald, Kyle Blanks, Martin Perez, and Gorkys Hernandez will be added to the poll.

 

1. MATT WIETERS - C (Baltimore)
2. DAVID PRICE - SP (Tampa Bay)
3. JASON HEYWARD - OF (Atlanta)
4. TRAVIS SNIDER - OF (Toronto)
5. MADISON BUMGARNER - SP (San Francisco)
6. COLBY RASMUS - OF (St. Louis)
7. CAMERON MAYBIN - OF (Florida)
8. TREVOR CAHILL - SP (Oakland)
9. NEFTALI FELIZ - SP (Texas)
10. MATT LAPORTA -  1B/OF/DH (Cleveland)
11. MIKE MOUSTAKAS - 3B (Kansas City)
12. TIM ALDERSON - SP (San Francisco)
13. PEDRO ALVAREZ - 3B (Pittsburgh)
14. RICK PORCELLO - SP (Detroit)
15. DEXTER FOWLER - OF (Colorado)
16. BRETT ANDERSON - SP (Oakland)*
17. DEREK HOLLAND - SP (Texas)
18. ANDREW McCUTCHEN - OF (Pittsburgh)
19. BUSTER POSEY - C (San Francisco)
20. CHRIS TILLMAN - SP (Baltimore)
21. LARS ANDERSON - 1B (Boston)
22. JUSTIN SMOAK - 1B (Texas)
23. THOMAS HANSON - SP (Atlanta)
24. ELVIS ANDRUS - SS (Texas)
25. ANGEL VILLALONA - 1B (San Francisco)
26. JHOULYS CHACIN - SP (Colorado)
27. BRIAN MATUSZ - SP (Baltimore)
28. ERIC HOSMER - 1B (Kansas City)
29. TIM BECKHAM - SS (Tampa Bay)
30. MAX RAMIREZ - C/1B (Texas)
31. JARROD PARKER - SP (Arizona)
32. MICHAEL STANTON - OF (Florida)
33. MAT GAMEL - 3B (Milwaukee)
34. JESUS MONTERO - C (New York-AL)
35. BRETT WALLACE - 3B (St. Louis)
36. JORDAN SCHAFER - OF (Atlanta)
37. WADE DAVIS - SP (Tampa Bay)
38. LOGAN MORRISON - 1B (Florida)
39. CARLOS SANTANA - C (Cleveland)
40. FERNANDO MARTINEZ - OF (New York-NL)
41. JAMES McDONALD - SP (Los Angeles-NL)
42. JEREMY HELLICKSON - SP (Tampa Bay)
43. JOSH VITTERS - 3B (Chicago-NL)
44. YONDER ALONSO - 1B (Cincinnati)
45. TAYLOR TEAGARDEN - C (Texas)
46. FREDDIE FREEMAN - 1B (Atlanta)
47. GORDON BECKHAM - SS (Chicago-AL)
48. BRETT CECIL - SP (Toronto)
49. ALCIDES ESCOBAR - SS (Milwaukee)
50. JORDAN ZIMMERMANN - SP (Washington)

51. CHRIS CARTER - 1B/DH (Oakland)
52. CARLOS TRIUNFEL - SS (Seattle)
53. AUSTIN JACKSON - OF (New York-AL)
54. BEN REVERE - OF (Minnesota)
55. MICHAEL BOWDEN - SP (Boston)
56. TYLER FLOWERS - C (Atlanta)
57. ADRIAN CARDENAS - SS (Oakland)
58. REID BRIGNAC - SS (Tampa Bay)
59. JAKE ARRIETA - SP (Baltimore)
60. JORDAN WALDEN - SP (Los Angeles-AL)
61. MICHAEL MAIN - SP (Texas)
62. WILMER FLORES - SS (New York-NL)
63. MATT DOMINGUEZ - 3B (Florida)
64. MICHAEL SAUNDERS - OF (Seattle)
65. DESMOND JENNINGS - OF (Tampa Bay)

66. CARLOS CARRASCO - SP (Philadelphia)

67. AARON CUNNINGHAM - OF (Oakland)

68. J.P. ARENCIBIA - C (Toronto)

 

CANDIDATES -   Jeff Samardzija, Martin Perez Gio Gonzalez, Nick Weglarz, Phillippe Aumont, Jose Tabata, Jeremy Jeffress, Daniel Cortes, Angel Salome, Gorkys Hernandez, Jason Donald, Kyle Blanks

TESTERS -   Michel Inoa(62-4%), Daryl Jones(62-2%), Andrew Lambo(63-4%), Greg Halman(63-2%), Jeff Niemann(63-0%),David Cooper(63-0%), Nick Noonan (64 - 3%), Beau Mills (64 - 3%), Jacob McGee (63 - 4%), Aaron Poreda (64 - 2%), Aaron Hicks(65-4%), Michael Burgess(65-3%) & Christopher Marrero(65-1%), Christopher Perez (66-4%), Todd Frazier (66-3%), Dellin Betances (66-2%), Adam Miller (67-3%), Kila Ka'aihue (67-3%), Ivan DeJesus, Neftali Soto,  Michael Taylor, Vincent Mazzaro, Scott Elbert

NOTE: I have listed by each tester the last time they were on a poll and the percentage of votes they obtained. This should help us with selecting who should be placed back on the poll etc

Poll
Who is Community Prospect #69?
Jeff Samardzija
39 votes
Gio Gonzalez
67 votes
Nick Weglarz
16 votes
Phillippe Aumont
53 votes
Jose Tabata
18 votes
Jeremy Jeffress
24 votes
Daniel Cortes
20 votes
Angel Salome
19 votes
Jason Donald
15 votes
Kyle Blanks
15 votes
Martin Perez
22 votes
Gorkys Hernandez
18 votes

326 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 73 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Julio Borbon.

A .337 / .372 / .459 (AA stats) hitter at the age of 22 in his first professional season is very impressive. Not too mention his plus defensive abilities in CF.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by octoberty on Nov 23, 2008 9:28 PM EST reply actions  

If it hadn't been his first season in the minors, would it be that impressive?

What about the catcher who put up similar (but slightly better) stats at the same level but in a pitcher-friendly league while being a year younger (Salome)?

I’m still going with Samardzija, who I’ve been going with on and off for about 20 spots or so now, but I feel like Salome and Jeffress are also severely underranked at this point.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Nov 23, 2008 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Impressive, but not nearly as.

Salome is very nice.. How is he as a catcher? Im not arguing that Borbon is better than Salome, just that he should be on the list.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by octoberty on Nov 23, 2008 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Martin Perez probably shouldn’t be on until the mid 80sw and shouldnt get voted in until the early to mid 90s IMO. Borbon is a solid 70s prospect.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 23, 2008 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Salome

Salome, despite his size, is a good defensive catcher. In 2004 he was rated the best defensive catcher in the Brewers organization by Baseball America.

I'll warm up with you anytime

by ufoboy90 on Nov 24, 2008 12:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Not really

He has little power and no walking ability. That OPS is entirely dependent on a batting average that benefited from an unusually high BABIP. What’s the difference between Borbon and Juan Pierre?

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Nov 23, 2008 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, in fairness, Juan Pierre was actually good for several seasons

The Marlins, with their usual knack for knowing when to punt on a guy, shipped him out just before he collapsed into irrelevance.

Pierre is actually a pretty good comp for Borbon… he’ll probably have a few above-average seasons, but I doubt he’ll be anything special.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 23, 2008 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Borbon's AFL line, .287 / .404 / .425
A lot of people felt that Julio Borbon “didn’t walk enough” during his otherwise extraordinary .337 / .380 / .459 season at Double-A Frisco (in his first full pro season, mind you). Even the Rangers themselves wanted to see if Borbon could work pitch counts a little more when they sent him to the Arizona Fall League. Clearly, he did so. After drawing just 14 walks in 255 at-bats for Frisco, Borbon drew 17 freebies in just 87 at-bats for Surprise in the AFL. The trade off was that he fanned 20 times in those 87 at-bats after striking out 32 times in 255 at-bats in the Texas League. This, I am sure, was the result of purposefully going deeper in counts. Borbon didn’t see strike two very often in Frisco.

From Mike Hindman, DMN.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by octoberty on Nov 24, 2008 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Would have voted for...

Halman, if he was on. I voted Aumont.

by rhd on Nov 23, 2008 9:31 PM EST reply actions  

Halman

should definitely be on the next poll.

by OccamsRazor on Nov 23, 2008 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Weglarz

Followed by Perez, Aumont, Gorkys

by gogotabata on Nov 23, 2008 9:48 PM EST reply actions  

My next few....

I went with Gio on this poll, but I like Halman, The Shark, Jeffress, Aumont, Salome, Donald, and Coghlan in some order. I don’t see any possible way that Tabata or Gorkys can make The List before Halman or Borbon either.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Nov 23, 2008 9:57 PM EST reply actions  

Arencibia

gets on because he’s an average defensive catcher with power, but a center fielder who plays great defense, has more power, and a ton of speed isn’t on the list at all?

Halman would get my vote here. Too bad I didn’t notice he was missing while I was pushing for Cunningham.

by DrunkIrish on Nov 24, 2008 12:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Halman...

I’ve been a fan since I saw him as a 17 y/o in the AZL, but he’s WAY more raw than Arencibia. Also younger, but he has crazy contact problems.

I think he’ll make the majors, but I think he’ll be a lot more valuable to fantasy players than to the Mariners unless he makes some major adjustments.

by slamcactus on Nov 24, 2008 12:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Halman's K rate is insane, though

He could easily strike out in 40% of his at-bats at the major league level.

I’ve made this comparison before, but Chris Young without walks does not excite me.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 24, 2008 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Look at the power...

He had an XBH in over 13% of PA in A+ ball this year. And the K rate didn’t get any worse moving up to AA. And he was only 20. I’m more concerned about the walks than the K rate at this point; with a guy who is hitting the ball that hard that frequently. He’s already in AA at a young age and seems to be advancing without too much difficulty adjusting to the next level.

He’s also bigger than Chris Young; I think there’s going to be more over the fence power than that comp suggests.

by acerimusdux on Nov 24, 2008 1:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Halman's ceiling is undeniable though

I can understand the comparison however chris young could still improve and become a great player, he just turned 25. Halman still has a ways to go but at this point in the list he should be getting some serious consideration.

by Scrupio on Nov 24, 2008 1:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Gio Gonzalez is terrible

Dan Cortes is not.

Jeffress is also a worthy candidate and Weglarz too.

Gio has 11 votes too many imo.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Nov 23, 2008 9:59 PM EST reply actions  

I didn't like him before

and his big league stint wasn’t encouraging.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Nov 23, 2008 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I always liked him

but I feel he has a limited ceiling.

I would take Aumont over Gio, too, but barely. I would list them all in the next five.

by alskor on Nov 23, 2008 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

what limits his ceiling?

cortes has his own issues…55 walks in 115 innings or so might be a problem. plus apparent off field concerns according to law

Patrick (Chicago): KLaw! Love the chats. What do you make of Dan Cortes’s awful start in the AFL?

SportsNation Keith Law: He’s further away than I would have thought a month ago. He’s still pretty raw. I’ve also heard that his off-field issues are … well, they’re something to consider when valuing him.

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 23, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

the off field concerns are old news

unless you can find me something more concrete than a one liner from Law of all people.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Nov 23, 2008 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

what limits Gio

a poor fastball and a poor track record.

And you’re gonna have to do better than a nebulous reference to “off field” issues than that.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Nov 23, 2008 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

whoops

when i said poor track record i didn’t mean in general, I was going for more in the walks and k/bb department.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Nov 23, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol

His career K/BB is better than Cortes’s, by a sizable margin… only slightly more walks and substantially more strikeouts.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 23, 2008 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

when i said poor track record i didn’t mean in general, I was going for more in the walks and k/bb department.

Please point out the non-stats part of this argument.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 23, 2008 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I am aware that he stated that Cortes has a better fastball

That does not take away from, or excuse, the fact that he made a false statement about their respective K/BB ratios.

Personally, I’d prefer to avoid having threads cluttered by falsehoods, but it seems you disagree.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 24, 2008 12:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Actually

I wasn’t really making an attempt to compare Cortes to Gonzalez in just pointing out a major flaw that I think will hold Gonzalez back.

Just wanted to clear that up.

Accidentally not thedude925 anymore. I do hate this new name.

by wildthang on Nov 24, 2008 2:12 AM EST up reply actions  

It made sense to me

Obviously, both guys had poor walk rates.

The fact that Gio has more of a track record without that improving, being 18 months older and having been in his third season above A+ ball, might raise more doubts about his likelihood of improving on that ratio any time soon.

by acerimusdux on Nov 24, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

Cortes has taken a number of big leaps forward and is still young. Gio is what he is… so-so fastball and walks.

Which one is more likely to improve a great deal over the next two years?

by alskor on Nov 24, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Cortes's walk rate just DECLINED this season...

Eh, whatever. If you want to wishcast, I can’t stop you. Normally playing and producing at a higher level are considered good things, but apparently not on this board.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 24, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Poor fastball?

Wasn’t his average fastball velocity like just under 90 MPH? If he was a right-handed pitcher then yes, that would probably be defined as “poor” or at least “below-average” velocity. Out of a left-handed pitcher that’s actually pretty good, and out of a pitcher who has another pitcher that grades well above-average, it should be plenty to get him by given the proper refinement in control.

The velocity difference in what you can expect to see out of your average RHP compared to your average LHP is very substantial, and it DOES make a big difference.

by mrkupe on Nov 24, 2008 12:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Eh

I have very little respect for Keith Law’s opinion most of the time… though youve certainly raised some red flags Im going to look in to.

As to what limits Gio… well, I can sum it up in two words: 1) Fastball; and 2) Walks. Gio has a fine ceiling, dont get me wrong – but with a much better heater and great stuff himself, I think Cortes has a higher ceiling, realistically. I also love Cortes’s size. Cortes is 6’5"/6’6" and 200+. Gio is 5’11", 185. Obviously not a major deciding factor by itself, but if you needed a tiebreaker…

by alskor on Nov 23, 2008 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

keith law on cortes

Florida lefty Sean West and Kansas City righty Daniel Cortes matched up on Friday afternoon; West was impressive, Cortes was awful. West, who missed 2007 with a SLAP lesion in his shoulder, sat 90-94 with a solid-average slider and a hard changeup (87-88 mph) with as much tail as I’ve seen on a change at that speed. Someone who has had arm trouble is probably at higher risk for future arm trouble, but West has a big, strong build and good pitcher’s frame. Cortes’ fastball was flat and up in the zone, and he gave up a couple of home runs before an early exit. He had one of the odder stat lines you’ll see: 12 batters faced, five strikeouts, two home runs, and five balls in play that all fell in for hits. When hitters made contact, it was hard.

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 23, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Both need to walk less guys

per 9IP:

SO9 BB9 H9 HR9 MLE GB%
8.41 4.24 7.94 1.00 5.36 37.3 Dan Cortes
9.37 4.46 7.76 0.88 4.86 40.7 Gio Gonzalez
7.38 2.25 8.31 0.51 4.01 52.1 Aaron Poreda
7.90 3.18 8.34 0.49 4.11 53.3 Jon Niese

The MLE listed is the MLE FIP per minorleaguesplits.com.

Poreda is probably the best pitcher right now. Cortes has almost Gio Gonzalez like walk rates, and his other ratios weren’t as good. Poreda and Niese had slightly higher hit rates and lower SO rates, but they are ground ball pitchers who kept the ball in the ball park; the extra hits are singles.

by acerimusdux on Nov 23, 2008 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Blanks has a nice hitting line this year

Moderate Ks and high HR suggest he could be an Ordonez-type hitter at the big league level. I actually like him more than a number of the 1Bmen who have found their way onto the list so far.

I’m waffling between him and Salome— anyone know why Salome hasn’t managed 100 games for the last two seasons? That’s the only thing I’m seeing to knock him. Is he injury prone? If not, he’s getting my vote.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 23, 2008 10:01 PM EST reply actions  

+1

Blanks has been rock solid at every level and projects as a perennial 25-30 HR guy peaking at 40. He has decent speed (stole 11 bags last year at A+) and his defense should be around league-average. The only argument against him is that he’s fat, which I don’t think is particularly strong.

by OccamsRazor on Nov 23, 2008 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...

I voted Blanks. It’s a pretty thin pool. I think there are a lot better people in the test pool than on the poll at the moment.

by slamcactus on Nov 24, 2008 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Aumont or Blanks

Aumont is a far-away pitcher with great upside. Blanks is an almost-major-league first baseman with somewhat lower upside but less risk.

I don’t even think Cortes is the best arm in the Royals system. I would take Dan Duffy over him, and maybe Rosa as well.

by OccamsRazor on Nov 23, 2008 10:44 PM EST reply actions  

+1

I really, really like Duffy. Cortes is coming along decently but I think he’s treading more towards being a solid-but-unspectacular innings eater.

by mrkupe on Nov 23, 2008 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Rosa...nope

He’s a reliever. I have four pitchers over him and could have five or six.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Nov 23, 2008 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

His ceiling as a starter is probably #3 with a decent #4 more likely, and a reliever most likely of all. He’ll probably be a decent reliever, though. Even saying that, I can’t see Cortes as much better. Duffy is the best of the three.

by OccamsRazor on Nov 23, 2008 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of which

Dan Duffy tester at some point.

by OccamsRazor on Nov 23, 2008 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I can buy Duffy being ahead of Cortes

Matter of preference. I like Cortes a bit more.

Rosa has a smallish frame, injury history, and only two consistent pitches. He’s got a bullpen job to lose next spring, IMO. He COULD be a starter, but I doubt it at this point.

Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Nov 23, 2008 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

He’s about the same height Joakim Soria, though a bit heavier. Obviously not the best comp, but I don’t think Rosa is too small.

by OccamsRazor on Nov 23, 2008 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Given the shortage of middle infielders Ivan DeJesus should be

somewhere in the Top 100. His performance compares pretty favorably to Brignac and Cardenas albeit with less hype and probably tools. I’m referring both to the shortage of MI both on the prospect list as well as in the major leagues.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 23, 2008 10:45 PM EST reply actions  

Brad Holt

I know I don’t post around here much, but I feel its about time I make a push on Brad Holt. I feel he’s gotten the short end of the stick in a lot of people’s eyes, partly because the Mets first two picks showed virtually nothing so far this year and partly because its fashionable to bash Mets prospects anyway. Here’s the case for him:

1. The UNC righty didn’t really emerge until he made a meteoric rise up draft boards this past year after going 11-1 with a 3.18 ERA and a 95/36 K/BB in 93 IP in his final college season. This is mostly attributable to a significant velocity spike. Going into the year he was projected to be picked towards the back end of the first 10 rounds of the draft, but with every start his stock seemed to rise until he made it all the way to the supplemental first round.

2. Dominated the NYPL going 5-3 with a 1.87 ERA and 96/33 K/BB in 72.1 IP. Granted, he’s already 21, so he probably should have dominated NYPL, and really only needed his fastball to do so, that kind of sheer dominance is still impressive.

3. Working primarily off his fastball in college, his work on a power curve has gotten rave reviews from scouts who say the pitch made significant and noticeable improvements with every start he made, to the point where it was a fairly consistent plus pitch for him by the end of the year. He also flashes a changeup that shows signs of becoming an average offering.

4. He throws mostly 93-96 with plus run and sink on his fastball, and there are rumblings that he touched triple digits in Brooklyn. He’s got a big, classic pitcher’s frame. His mechanics are clean, classic and powerful. He generates a lot of power in his stride, throws with intent, and for what its worth even finishes in solid fielding position.

5. Some people see him moving to the bullpen eventually, but I think this is shortsighted. His curveball has significantly improved and is already showing signs of being a plus pitch, this after he threw more than 90% fastballs in college. On top of that, he really maintains his velocity deep into games, which is really more of a long term difference maker in evaluating a prospect as SP vs. RP. The day before he was drafted, Holt threw 139 pitches for UNC in his final start and was clocked at 94 mph in the 9th inning. IMO, this is a very underrated skill for SP prospects, and one we don’t notice because the pitchers who can’t do it never wind up spending significant time in big league rotations.

6. John Manuel had this to say about him in a recent BA chat without even being prompted by a question, just because he felt the need to express how big a Holt fan he is:

“Since I see no Q’s about him, my single favorite pick of the draft, I think, is Brad Holt. I’m way intrigued by the reports we’ve got, both from within the Mets and outside, of his improved breaking ball, that he flashes a plus, power breaker. He sounds like he might be Mike Pelfrey with a bit less downhill or sink, a better breaking ball and considerably less hype. I bet he makes their draft.”

IMO, on an overall list, I think a case can be made to rank Holt ahead of John Niese (although I know I’ll catch a lot of disagreement on that one). Niese is more polished but has significantly less upside. I know all Holt’s done is use an overpowering fastball to dominated NYPL hitters, which in itself isn’t that unusual, but with his profile and talent, if he continues to have any kind of success in a full-season league, he’ll jump up prospect rankings as fast as anyone in the game next season.

The way I see it, the difference between Samardzija and Holt, while significant, isn’t so big that Samardzija is a candidate (and likely to get voted onto the list soon) and Holt hasn’t even seen time as a tester yet. All in all, Holt probably belongs towards the back of the Top 100, which is why I’ve held off on hyping him here, but I feel like this is right about the spot where he should be included as a tester.

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 23, 2008 10:54 PM EST reply actions  

Good Point

2 plus pitches. Command. Ability to sustain it deep into games.

I guess the caveat is that he really doesn’t have great command of the breaking ball yet – resulting in the walk rate of 4.10 per 9 ip. But, to be able to still put up a 1.05 WHIP despite that, is pretty dominating stuff. Even in SS ball.

I tend to want to see him in full season ball and be a bit more consistent with the secondary stuff before I get fully behind him; whereas Niese I think is about ready now and better than most of the other guys being mentioned at this spot. But I think if you leave Holt off entirely, you might regret it next year.

I don’t think the comparison to Samardzija is quite fair, when Samardzija by now has already shown he can handle the upper minors and even had a very impressive MLB bullpen stint. Maybe more similar to Samardzija a year ago. If I go two years ago, Samardizja was just much more raw when drafted, so that wouldn’t be even either, but that would be a comparable point in time in terms of pro experience.

by acerimusdux on Nov 23, 2008 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Samardzija

Yeah that’s really what I meant, Samardzija is definitely ahead, but in the sense that Holt is a big, physical, somewhat raw, power pitcher. Samardzija started out more raw, Holt has shown a sharper early learning curve, but Samardzija is clearly ahead. Holt wasn’t the consummate college athlete Samardzija was, but he’s really made an incredible amount of improvement over the last year. I’m not saying that Holt should be ranked all that close to Samardzija, but if he’s around 70 I think it would be fair to make Holt a tester. The problem is, while Holt’s progress has been astounding and makes for some tantalizing projection, its still only a year of data. There’s lots to like about it, and few red flags, but there’s only so much you can really infer. 2009 will have a huge impact on Holt’s stock, if his progress continues at anything close to the rate its been going at, he’ll blow by a lot of guys on this list very quickly.

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 24, 2008 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Niese

Oh, and as for Niese, I’m partly just playing devil’s advocate. Its the classic argument of potential vs. polish, and its a great example because Holt’s got a lot more potential than polish, and vice versa for Niese. In a way though, that’s just the baseball version of the chicken and the egg.

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 24, 2008 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Kyle Blanks's performance seems comparable to the other "bats" already voted in

Anderson, LaPorta, etc, and better than Gamel.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 23, 2008 11:03 PM EST reply actions  

Yep

Which is why I’ve been pushing for him…..nobody seems to say anything other than “he’s fat,” which is partially true, but he moves pretty well for a huge guy (6’ 6" 270 guys don’t usually steal 11 bases). It’s not like he’s an “old player skills” kind of hitter.

by OccamsRazor on Nov 23, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Burgess Here

Not just because of John’s B+

by gpellet41 on Nov 23, 2008 11:15 PM EST reply actions  

Gio?

And this after Arencibia getting all kinds of support.

I REALLY do want to like this list, but…

by DrunkIrish on Nov 24, 2008 12:25 AM EST reply actions  

Voted Jeffress.

Alternating between him and Aumont. I think both should have been on the list already.

Gio? Really?

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Nov 24, 2008 12:34 AM EST reply actions  

Either that or they aren't very numerous, if you catch my drift

Haven’t seen any obvious vote runs, though, so maybe it’s legit…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 24, 2008 3:39 AM EST up reply actions  

it is kind of strange

very all of a sudden… GIO has support

by daveh33 on Nov 24, 2008 3:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I like strikeouts by pitchers

Gio has strikeouts. Combine that with only needed half a season more (or less) at AAA and I’m convinced.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Nov 24, 2008 4:26 AM EST up reply actions  

too many walks and flyballs

Killer combo. His k rate was huge in AA, still good in AAA, but he needs to limit base on balls. To me, yes, he has dropped farther than this.

by wobatus on Nov 24, 2008 9:14 AM EST reply actions  

I voted Aumont

But it’s getting close to time for Nick Noonan, who I would chose just after Gorkys Hernandez.

Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.

by Lyle on Nov 24, 2008 9:30 AM EST reply actions  

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