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Thomas Hanson or Justin Masterson?

Thomas Hanson RHP, Atlanta Braves  age:22

Justin Masterson RHP, Boston Red Sox  age:23

Which pitcher do you think has a higher upside?  Which pitcher do you think has better pure "stuff"? Which pitcher would you rather have on your team for the next 5 years? How soon do you think Hanson will earn a spot in Braves rotation?  Do you think the Red Sox are committed to Masterson as a starter this season and beyond?

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1 recs  |  Comment 39 comments

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I doubt anyone will go with Masterson

Hanson is looking like a guy who can record 200 K’s in a season, while Masterson more of a groundball specialist in the Derek Lowe Mold.

I’d consider Masterson the slightly safer bet but Hanson having the much higher ceiling.

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by sully10x on Nov 20, 2008 4:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand the Masterson hype at ALL

He seems like a standard middle relief/4th starter type to me. Very Carlos Silva-esque.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 20, 2008 4:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Right

a guy with 2, possibly 3 plus pitches is a middle reliever/back end of the rotation starter. Not to mention he has pretty good command and is basically unhittable. The only knock on Hanson is his flyball rate, but that hardly makes him that much weaker. He has ace potential.

by JP_Frost on Nov 20, 2008 5:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

One of the best sinkers in the majors

according to KG.

More than one guy has made a long career and a lot of money off of that.

by alskor on Nov 20, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Carlos Silva sure made a lot of money off of that

…wait.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 20, 2008 7:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

my bad

I thought you said Hanson instead of Masterson. Ignore my post.

by JP_Frost on Nov 20, 2008 6:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hanson has a lot of risk b/c of the high flyball rate

but he also has huge upside. I could see him ending up anywhere from a #1 to a #4 depending on how well his K/BB rate carries over to the majors.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 20, 2008 7:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No way.

He looks really good. I saw him while watching YES network against the Yankees. His stuff is great.

by schmosterballs92 on Nov 21, 2008 9:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ok

1. Hanson
2. Hanson
3. Hanson
4. 2009
5. Committed? No.

BTW, i give the same answers to the follwing question:

by wobatus on Nov 20, 2008 4:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

oops

ignore that last line.

by wobatus on Nov 20, 2008 4:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tommy Hanson

Can we all agree to call him Tommy Hanson? Whenever I see Thomas Hanson it throws my brain for a loop.

by OldDutchPots on Nov 20, 2008 4:45 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

This is a totally unfair question

Its like an excuse to s*** on Masterson.

Obviously its Hanson by a mile, but that doesnt take anything away from Masterson. Masterson came in 53rd on BP’s top 100 last season.

He’s yet to have a bad start in six tries thanks to the best sinker in the minors, that is now one of the best in the majors.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7684

Masterson’s sinker is not only the best in the system, it’s arguably the best in all of the minor leagues. The pitch comes out of his hand at 88-92 mph, touches 94, and features tremendous downward break. Making the pitch even more effective is his ability to locate it in any four quadrants of the zone. He has an intimidating presence on the mound, and his drop-and-drive style gives him some deception.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6902

Masterson is going to be a pretty good swing guy for another year or two while they break him in and then settle in as a consistent 3 starter. He’s a very good pitcher.

I think he’s Chien Ming Wang, frankly. That’s not to say “overrated,” but a solid mid to front of the rotation type sinkerballer.

by alskor on Nov 20, 2008 4:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

You know

In his time in the bigs, I’ve seen Wang throwing 94-95 rather consistently. He doesn’t get much hype due to the lack of K’s, but he really deserves more credit for his stuff. Being a groundball pitcher, he gets overlooked a bit.

by Daniel Plainview on Nov 20, 2008 4:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Masterson...

and I didn’t give it much of a second thought. He has already shown the ability to get major league hitters out. He is a good starter who got stuck in the bullpen last season because rotation was full in Boston. He has a great sinker and good control. I don’t see him being prone to the big inning like I think Hanson may be.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Nov 20, 2008 5:32 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Im really shocked so many people say Masterson

and Im a Sox fan. I said Hanson by a mile… basically just on the outside chance he can be a true Ace, strikeout pitcher.

I think Masterson is a lock to be at worst a middle of the rotation starter… I can totally see a Derek Lowe career… theyre both like 6’6", both have sinkers called “one of the best in the majors” and Masterson has phenomenal control of that sinker and can throw it for a strike to righties or lefties in any count – something DLowe always had problems with.

I just really like Hanson’s ceiling, but Im glad to see Masterson getting some respect.

by alskor on Nov 20, 2008 5:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

So many = 1

That’s my count. I agreed with your first post that this is an unfair question, especially in light of the AFL stats.

by parish on Nov 20, 2008 6:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hanson

But it’s way closer than people here seem to be letting on….

by mraver on Nov 20, 2008 7:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

+1

With Masterson’s GB rate, I would prefer him in a smaller stadium kike GABP or Arlington…

Masterson is easily a #3 or a dominant closer, and while Hanson is probably a #2, that’s still close.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Nov 20, 2008 7:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

it might be hanson...

but why do people act like it’s a landslide, what has hanson actually done? he’s was in A ball most of the year and actually was a little bit old for class, really? I mean his number in AFL are sick, but is that THAT big of a deal. I haven’t seen a single argument on this thread about hanson’s tools, which means everyone of them are just basing it off his stats like they are THAT important.

I could be wrong, but I have not heard ace potential from Hanson, he sounds like the kind of guy who has good command of 4 pitches and is able to dominate weak hitters with that mix, i’ve seen that way too many times to be impressed until a scout talks great about him and he starts dominating AA and AAA hitters

by IHateMitchMustain on Nov 20, 2008 7:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Have you payed attention?

Hanson pitched a no hitter at AA this year already. He is not going to spend another day in the minor leagues. His development their is done and now his major league development will begin. Hanson basically was throwing just his fastball/curve/change for the first two year that he was in the Braves system because the Braves do not believe in young pitchers throwing sliders. But, when Hanson was in Juco ball that was his best pitch so the night of his no-hitter was the first time the Braves let him throw it. So, while being in the system for two years without throwing his best pitch Hanson fine tuned the command on his low-mid 90’s fastball with excellent movement as well as drastically improving his curveball to the point where it is now a plus pitch.

In the AFL, Hanson’s sole motivation was to improve his changeup and by his results thus far I think its safe to say that this pitch might now be a plus pitch but I haven’t read any conclusive scouting reports on his performance there yet. Needless to say, if you have a guy with a plus low-mid 90’s 2 seam fastball with great movement, mid 90’s four seamer, plus-plus slider, plus curve, and a plus change then I think we are talking about a guy who has that potential to be an Ace pitcher.

I personally like Masterson and think the Red Sox and doing a dis-service to themselves by keeping him in the bullpen but right now I think in terms of ceiling you would have to go with Hanson.

by Braves on Nov 20, 2008 8:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hanson...

“He is not going to spend another day in the minor leagues. His development their is done and now his major league development will begin. Hanson basically was throwing just his fastball/curve/change for the first two year that he was in the Braves system because the Braves do not believe in young pitchers throwing sliders. But, when Hanson was in Juco ball that was his best pitch so the night of his no-hitter was the first time the Braves let him throw it”

Besides your opinion, is there anything else to support this?

by Kenan and Kel on Nov 20, 2008 9:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

High A to now

what I like from Hanson is that he is having the same success in the AFL against cream of the crop High A and AA guys that he did against High A early in the season.

he had the adjustment period of about 5-6 starts in AA, and since then the success started to spike again.

by davidsabin on Nov 21, 2008 1:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Information is out on Braves forum

Bill Shanks did an interview with Hanson that verified this information in regards to his slider. Its widely known that the Braves do not believe in young pitchers throwing sliders but unfortunately its a pay subscription and I can’t supply the audio for it.

by Braves on Nov 21, 2008 10:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

did you just describe God if he was a pitcher

i mean really, plus-plus slider, plus curve and plus change to go with a mid 90s 4seam and a low-mid 90s 2seam, if you find this mythological being, let me know where he is so I can sign him or go and become his disciple or something

by IHateMitchMustain on Nov 21, 2008 2:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

It’s kind of amazing that despite all of that stuff, his ERA was still almost 4 in AA

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by OldProspects on Nov 21, 2008 2:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ERA almost 4?

A 3.03 ERA in AA is now almost 4? Even forget the fact that he let up 8 ER in his second start in AA. Please, Hanson DOMINATED AA as much as any pitcher in the minors dominated the level they were at.

Just because he has plus pitches doesn’t make them comparable to lets say Josh Beckets curve. A plus pitch just means its a major league pitch. When you go plus-plus then that starts getting into the discussion of a dominant major league pitch and from the scouting reports, Hanson’s slider could be dominating major league pitch.

by Braves on Nov 21, 2008 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hilarious

I should have considered the “Price is Right” rule. Priceless!

by Braves on Nov 21, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why all the hate?

Like I said above, it’s closer than the fanboys here seem to think, but at the same time, your position is pretty silly, too. Dominate weak hitters? He’s owned the AFL! Dominate AA? What do you think he did for his last 20 starts of the year? I mean, did you even look at his season?

Anyhow, here’s Goldstein’s report on him, which I think answers every question you’ve raised in this thread…

Year in Review: One of the best pitchers in the minors throughout the year, Hanson struck out 13 of 15 batters in his season debut, tossed a 14-strikeout no-hitter for Double-A Mississippi in June, and has been the most dominant arm in the Arizona Fall League, allowing four hits over 13 2/3 shutout innings with 19 strikeouts in his first four appearances for Mesa.
The Good: Some scouts believe that Hanson could get big-league hitters out right now, as he’s one of the rare prospects in the game with four plus pitches. His fastball is parked at 91-93 mph but can touch 95-96 when he rears backs for a little extra. His best pitches are his breaking offerings; he throws an over-the-top hard-dropping curve as well as a sharp slider with plenty of tilt, while adding a deceptive changeup against lefties. He’s a big-bodied starter who the Braves had no problem moving to a higher pitch count when he was pitching well.
The Bad: Some wonder if Hanson is not quite as good as his numbers, as most of his strikeouts come on his secondary offerings as opposed to the fastball, and there is some effort in his delivery. While his control is solid, his command can falter at times, and he has a tendency to elevate his pitches.
Fun Fact: During his first four Arizona Fall League appearances, right-handed batters facing Hanson went 2-for-32 with 16 strikeouts.
Perfect World Projection: A consistent 16-18 game winner in the big leagues as a number one or two starter.
Glass Half Empty: As one scout puts it, “He’s good, but not jaw dropping,” and his dependency on the secondary pitches could mean he’s more of a third starter.
Path To The Big Leagues: With an old rotation in need of rebuilding, nothing is blocking Hanson’s way to Atlanta.
Timetable: Some are surprised that Hanson hasn’t already seen the majors, and scouts that have seen him in Arizona think he’s ready. He’ll be given a shot to earn a big-league job in spring training, but the Braves might be more comfortable giving a handful of Triple-A starts first.

To sum up: 4 plus pitches, ceiling is a #1, some scouts think he should have seen the majors last year.

by mraver on Nov 21, 2008 11:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I am an idiot

Wow, look at that. A major publication backing up my claim that Hanson has four plus pitches. A plus pitch doesn’t equate to Josh Becket’s curve. It just means that those pitches translate to reliable major league pitches. However, this article doesn’t specify the information I have been getting in that Hanson’s slider is plus-plus.

by Braves on Nov 21, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've never heard that about his slider

I’d like to read that scouting report, frankly.

by mraver on Nov 21, 2008 12:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hanson

By many miles.

by dkdc on Nov 20, 2008 8:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Gotta go with Hanson as the answer to a very unfair question

Masterson is nothing to scoff at, but Hanson has been filthy – 166.2 innings, 212 K, 59 BB, and only 10 HR despite the flyball tendencies across A+, AA, and the AFL this year. I can’t wait to see him in a Braves uniform!

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 21, 2008 1:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

flyballs in A+ Myrtle Beach

that is the place, as they say, where fly balls go to die, hanson is good, but i have yet to see a single scouting report from anyone say he can be great…of course there was the absolute perfect example above from the professional scout saying “he won’t spend another day in the minor leagues”, i was only chuckling until i got to the end and saw, “by Braves” LOL, I literally did laugh out loud, thank you for that

by IHateMitchMustain on Nov 21, 2008 2:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Myrtle

They moved in the fences in the past year or two.

by aCone419 on Nov 21, 2008 8:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Correct Misconception

Hanson only made 7 starts at MB. He made 18 starts at Miss (AA). He gave up 9 HRs in 98 IP at Miss, a more neutral park. Thats about 1 HR per 9 innings. He also averaged about 2 BBs and 10 Ks per 9 innings. He got off to a slow start his first 3/4 games and then was outstanding the remainder of the season.

by braves99 on Nov 21, 2008 10:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why do fans do this?

You see this in chats all the time. Fans will set up two mismatched choices to boost their team. Tell me you’ve ever seen a Jim Callis chat where you don’t see something like: “Pete (Anaheim): Jordan Walden or Andrew Brackman?” And the underlying thought it clearly, "Aha, this will prove my team’s system’s superiority and stick it to the Yankees.

The Braves and Sox both have great systems. This is cherrypicking to give the Braves a win.

by aap212 on Nov 21, 2008 11:21 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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