2008 AL MVP Dustin Pedroia
by GuyinNY on Nov 18, 2008 2:41 PM EST
71 comments
http://www.baseballwriters.org/awards/2008/2008_AL_mvp.html
Well, I'd have rather seen the award go to Youkilis or Mauer, but I suppose this is satisfactory. How long until the MSM starts beating the drums for Pedroia as the new Jeter? Or Pedroia as a future HOF'r? It's a pretty great start to a career, and far better than what most of this site had predicted for the neophyte Red Sox.
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I thought he was an easy choice.
His offense was up there with the other guys who were in the playoffs on its face. Adjust for position and he jumps to the lead. Adjust for playing time (as oppoed to Mauer – Pedroia played more games… 726 PAs to 633. Mauer would have to be WAY better than Pedroia with the bat to make up that difference) and he leaps farther ahead. Adjust for consistency and he takes a commanding lead (as opposed to Youkilis – who slumped a few times… Pedroia never really slumped this year. He carried the team every month of the season). Adjust for defensive value and he blew everyone away (The 1B guys just cant match his defensive value and their bats dont overcome the difference).
WAY too early for the other stuff, but we can say this: there is virtually nothing else Pedroia could have done at this point in his career to be on track for the HOF.
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 2:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I will say this
If youre going to include guys out of the playoffs/playoff race it should have been Arod, who is being hurt by Shiny New Toy Syndrome. Obviously he was never in consideration, but he would have been on my ballot… albeit below Pedroia, Mauer, etc…
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much agree
I pretty much agree, however dinging Mauer on the playing time thing is a bit harsh when you consider the differing physical demands between playing Catcher and playing Second Base.
Mauer also got on base a lot more, which is much more valuable than the gap in slugging. Further, he lead AL hitters in WPA, and led Pedroia by a fair margin in that stat. Honestly, I think it’s pretty much a push between Mauer and Pedroia depending how much you want to weight positional adjustments since both were great hitters and excellent fielders at difficult positions on playoff caliber teams. There’s really no reason to be upset about Pedroia winning, but to say he blew the field away is not factual.
by Ophidian on Nov 18, 2008 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldnt have had a huge problem if Mauer won
Morneau, OTOH… that would have upset me.
Still, if Pedroia and Mauer both produce closely to the same slash stats, 100+ extra PA’s is pretty damn valuable to the team. Think VORP, accumulated stats wise. Its a difference in what the guy did for his team and significant one. I understand its because of the demands of catching, but that doesnt change anything for me. Should we adjust for pitchers because their job is so demanding that they can only pitch once every five days? Relievers? Most people have no objection to the idea that starters are more valuable than relievers based largely on the amount of innings pitched… thats the same argument Im making here w/ Pedroia vs. Mauer. Its not a defining issue, but something else to consider. I think it adds a great deal to Pedroia’s case. I mean, Pedroia had 37 more hits than Mauer… that’s nothing to sneeze at.
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not sure people are comfortable eyeballing plate appearances...
AB’s
Mauer: 536
Pedroia: 653
~120 extra ABs of .326/.369/.459… pretty substantial.
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeter? ARod?
Jeter had what everyone agrees was a bad offensive year, yet his line was .300/.363/.408. Admittedly, not very good. But is it really THAT different than Pedroia’s? Well, it’s different, it’s worse, but it’s not like it’s light years behind Pedroia’s stats. Yet no one in their right mind would think of Jeter as MVP material.
Arod’s line was .302/.392/.573, MUCH better than Pedroia’s while playing a position that is only slightly easier than his, and no one really thought twice about ARod.
My point is that Pedroia was a bad choice.
by sabernar on Nov 18, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
if you look up THREE POSTS you’ll see me praising Arod.
Jeter? That’s a joke. He was one of if not the worst defensive player in baseball this year. He gives back a great deal of his offensive value back with his glove. In no way should anyone be arguing Jeter deserved close to MVP consideration, or tha his year was anywhere near Pedroia’s. It wasnt. You are correct in the sense that Jeter’s offensive numbers this season are being unfairly maligned, but that’s it – and that hardly makes Jeter an MVP candidate.
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
check again
I never said that Jeter was or should have been an MVP candidate. My point was that Jeter’s offensive numbers weren’t really THAT different than Pedroia’s, yet everyone is saying how fantastic a season Pedroia had. No one ever claimed Cano’s numbers in 2006 or 2007 were MVP-worthy (he was 22nd in the MVP voting in 2006), yet they were .342/.365/.525 and .306/.353/.488 respectively.
To say that Pedroia’s offense was so fantastic that it merited any MVP consideration is laughable.
The top 5 in OPS+ in the AL in 2008 were:
Bradley-TEX 163
Rodriguez-NYY 150
Quentin-CHW 148
Youkilis-BOS 143
Mauer-MIN 137
by sabernar on Nov 18, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
OPS+ does not adjust for position. One should expect the 1B/DH/LF types to finish ahead of the 2B/SS/C types.
by Ophidian on Nov 18, 2008 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's an awfully simplistic view
that doesnt take into account playing time, position, defense or many other things.
I just wish someone had told the voters about this “OPS+” before the MVP votes were tallied! Who knew there was a single stat that could decide the MVP?
————————————————————————————-
Sarcasm aside, among the playoff contending MVP candidates(whether non playoff contenders should be considered is a different argument) Dustin Pedroia had an excellent offensive year for a 2B. If Robbie Cano hit like that this year he may very well have been deserving because in most years Dustin Pedroia’s 2008 offensive numbers are not MVP worthy. I think that’s what youre trying to say and you have a point… BUT this year, there was a strange paucity of traditional MVP candidates among the contending teams. I can understand someone taking the position that Pedroia wasnt the most deserving candidate, but its stretching it to say he was a “bad choice.”
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not simplisitic, just a data point
I wasn’t saying that OPS+ is the only factor. ARod plays 3B, which isn’t too much different in difficulty than 2B, but his numbers were considerably better in just about every respect. And on a team that had a scarcity of offense, he was the major contributor. Mussina was also extremely important to the Yankees. I would say that Youk was more valuable to the Sox than Pedroia. I understand that there isn’t anyone with numbers like ARod put up last year, and a lot of potential MVPs lost a little time to injury (e.g., Quentin), but that doesn’t make someone with significantly worse stats all of a sudden eligible. There were several middle infielder guys in the AL with numbers that approximate Pedroia’s that didn’t receive any consideration whatsoever.
by sabernar on Nov 18, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do chalk it up to positional adjustments
Upfront, yeah we’re in agreement that Mauer/Pedroia is fine and Morneau would have been a horrible choice again. We’re mostly quibbling, but quibbling can be fun :).
I do chalk the at bats stuff up to positional adjustment because I value 600 PA’s at catcher by Mauer (yes, I know he DH’d occasionally) more than 700 PA’s at 2B. It also may be worthwhile to consider the quality of the offense for the two players. I believe (without checking stats, ignore this if false) part of the reason that Pedroia got more plate appearances was from the Boston offense being sufficiently better than the that of Minnesota as to make fewer outs and bring Pedroia to the plate more. I don’t think it’s a big deal one way or the other, but if we’re going deep down to give credit to Pedroia for more plate appearances (which is a bit like an award for attendance) then we’re also giving him credit for the play of his teammates.
Either way, both were crazy valuable… I’d rather have the Gold Glove, Batting Champion Catcher than the Gold Glove, (almost) Batting Champion Second Baseman. I’d really just want both :).
by Ophidian on Nov 18, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Youve made a very good argument
Like I said, Mauer is the clear number 2 to me, and I certainly weighed him as deserving of winning it.
Id still go Pedroia, though. I do hope Mauer wins one someday.
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mauer already has an MVP award
From when he won in ‘06. Wait, what? Mauer didn’t win? HE DIDN’T EVEN FINISH IN THE TOP 5 THAT YEAR? Can’t be.
by Galt on Nov 18, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wait, what?
Pedroia never really slumped this year? You mean aside from that tiny slump that started on Opening day and lasted all the way through the end of May when he had a .281/.320/.397 line with 4 homers and 6 steals in over 240 AB?
by Galt on Nov 18, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Part of me knew it was going to happen and a part of me did not want it to happen
I do not even want to get started on why this is wrong.
by tdot mariner fan on Nov 18, 2008 2:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No problem with this award
The kid had a great year. He played great defense and helped carry the Red Sox after Manny was traded. He even thrived in the cleanup spot when called upon. Just look at the statline:
.326 AVG
.493 SLG
17 HR
54 doubles
213 hits
118 runs
20 steals
1 cost stealing
Those are great numbers for any hitters, and even more impressive for a secondbaseman. He led the league in hits, doubles, runs, and came second in batting average. Congrats Pedroia!!!
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 18, 2008 2:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Utley
Who was better than Pedroia in every measure offensively and was off-the-charts better defensively finished 15th in NL MVP voting.
Pedroia finishes 1st in the AL.
Am I taking crazy pills?
by Galt on Nov 18, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No
That would be the BBWAA.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Nov 18, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Utley deserved to be much higher
and if he was in the AL he’d easily be my choice.
Hell, if Kinsler stayed healthy he would have been my choice… for most of the year, Pedroia wasnt even the best 2B in his own league. Yet, at the end of the day I dont see any other way that makes sense.
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Utley should have been much higher
But then again, if Pujols was in the AL, Pedroia would have been second.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 18, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
15th!
15th place!
At least Quentin finished ahead of Hamilton
by Galt on Nov 18, 2008 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say
Im more troubled by the inclusion of Bartlett on the AL ballot than I am the placement of Utley on the NL.
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
finish strong
utley was the 3rd or 4th best hitter on his own team down the stretch as the phillies clinched the division, and right or wrong, the writers tend to vote on a “what have you done for me lately” basis…
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 18, 2008 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those are not MVP numbers.
A-rod has MVP numbers.
.320 average isn’t good enough to win, especially without power numbers.
by schmosterballs92 on Nov 18, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Grady Sizemore !
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Nov 18, 2008 2:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
He would’ve been my vote, but this isn’t an atrocity. Pedroia was great and was one of the best players in baseball this year. Even though years from now we won’t remember who finished second, Morneau probably should not have finished second.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Nov 18, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
I was reading this and my only thought was "wow, Sizemore didn’t even get a mention…ANYWHERE!!
.268/.374/ .502
38 SB 5 CS
33 HR
39 2B
5 3B
14 IBB
11 HBP
And great D in CF.
He came in 10th place in MVP voting…whatta world.
by SenorGato on Nov 19, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News...
left Pedroia off the ballot completely…
but voted Youkilis #1… very, very strange. Voted Mauer and Morneau, so its not a “no two guys on one team thing.” Doesnt make any sense to me… Usually a pretty decent writer. I wonder if there is a reasoning here, or if its just a typo or something…
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 2:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If there isn't a valid reason
I would strip him of his voting credentials.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 18, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a little harsh
He’s usually not a bad writer… still, that’s pretty wacky. They were just reading his ballot on the radio here and it is pretty funky. I still want to hear an explanation before I make a judgment…
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have seen this happen too often
I remember when Delgado was left off the ballot by a Chicago writer (who also refused to stand for the Canadian national anthem) because he “didn’t play on a winning team”. That season the Jays actually had 86 wins. However, he still gave A-Rod a vote even though his team finished with 71 wins. That year Delgado came second in the voting to A-Rod. Writers should be held accountable for their actions and if they don’t take their jobs seriously they should lose their write to vote. Unfortunately, that writer continued to be able to vote and In 2006 voted for AJ Pierzynksi over Joe Mauer even though Mauer won the batting title and was a much better player.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 18, 2008 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Uhh...
Pedro Martinez got the biggest screw job of screw jobs in 99. LaVelle Neal and George King will burn in baseball hell for that one. King claimed he didnt vote for pitchers for MVP. On his ballot the year before? David Wells. Ass. He wouldnt vote for a Red Sox player, period. That guy should be fired, thrown out of the BBWAA and deported.
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
misconception
the ONLY way that those two votes would have mattered is if they had both placed martinez in their top 4 on their ballot, which they likely wouldn’t have done anyway, so the intense hate of both writers from boston fans is very misplaced, to say the least…
and you could make an argument that robby alomar got screwed that year (.323/.422/.533 with 138 runs, 120 rbi, 20 homers, 37 steals, and 40 doubles along with a gold glove at 2b), but i honestly think they got it right….pudge was dominating defensively at the time, and he put up a line offensively that year of .332/35/113 with 25 steals and 116 runs…very impressive from a very premium defensive position
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 18, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
King was still completely full of s***
and Pedro deserved to be top 4 on everyone’s ballot IMHO.
213.3 IP, 160 H, 313 Ks, 9 HR, 2.07 ERA, 243 ERA+
The MVP ballot itself says explicity to consider pitchers for the award, and that if you cant you should recuse yourself.
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i haven't
….even taken the time to look up the others in the top 10 for their production that year, but already the two i mentioned would have legit arguments to be ahead of pedro that year….
i’m as big a proponent for pitchers being mvp considered as anyone, but to rip on guys because they don’t agree on putting a pitcher that high (neal has written multiple times about how he reconsidered about 2002 his stance on such and has voted pitchers in his top 10 since, i can’t verify that he truly has right now, though)….part of the beauty of the game of baseball is that three people watching the same play can have three different ideas of what happened….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 18, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Delgado and National Anthem
If you are speaking about Delgado in the brackets, it was the American national anthem he refused to stand for actually, which would accrue plenty of unspoken distaste.
by tdot mariner fan on Nov 18, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not speaking of that
Delgado didn’t refuse to stand for the anthem, it was “God bless America”. I am referring to a writer from Chicago who would not stand up for the Canadian anthem when he went to away games in Toronto.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 18, 2008 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
delgado
would still have been 15 points behind arod even if that voter would have put delgado first
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 18, 2008 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't the original point
I believe the point was that many of the writers make all sorts of inconsistent claims about their voting habits that do not stand up to logic. Leaving off Delgado because he “didn’t play on a winning team” even though his team was above .500, but at the same time voting for ARod when his team finished well below .500 is a clear contradiction.
No one should be up in arms that ARod won that year, but the lackadaisical manner that the Writers treat voting for these awards (and then later take them all too seriously in matters like Hall of Fame discussions) is a black mark against the BBWAA and the voters should be held accountable for their behaviour.
by Ophidian on Nov 18, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
point taken
the HOF vs. seasonal voting is a great point….for instance….if maddux does in fact retire this offseason, how is he not a unanimous first ballot candidate? mainly…because someone will say that no one should get in their first year and will leave him off….very similar dumb reasoning for that voting as for seasonal voting….
i guess i see them all too similar….writers seem to take certain things way too seriously in both ballots, and seem to make up their own unwritten rules as well…
however, they are the system in place….we can either work to amend the system in place or suffer through it….i think if all the voices crying foul actually did something about it, we’d have some change, frankly….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 18, 2008 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is Grant's response: "I was wrong"
In winning the MVP award, Dustin Pedroia was named on 27 of the 28 American League MVP ballots. The one writer to leave Pedroia off? That was Evan Grant, of the Dallas Morning News, a well-respected member of the Baseball Writers Association of America, the organization that votes on awards.
Grant voted for Kevin Youkilis first, followed by Francisco Rodriguez and Justin Morneau.
“I think the best way for me to sum it up is, in retrospect, obviously I was wrong,” Grant said by phone. “My colleagues all, and people I respect an awful lot, thought Dustin deserved to be in the top 5. I had him on my ballot in some scenarios as high as No. 1 late into September. When I looked at the numbers that to me mattered most, OPS and batting average with runners in scoring position, he just didn’t stack up with Youkilis at all. He was a laggard behind the others who had great years in the American League. Is it an error of omission that he’s left of my ballot entirely? You could say that.”
…
Grant emphasized that there was no anti-Pedroia or anti-Red Sox bias in his vote, especially given that he gave Youkilis the No. 1 spot.
“I just thought that Sizemore and Pena were at least the equal of Dustin,” Grant said. “When it got down to it, the last place on my ballot was Pedroia or Pena, Pedroia or Pena. I don’t have a guy from the Rays on my ballot and they won 97 games. I was going to vote to make sure Carlos Pena got recognized. I’m not afraid to say I was wrong. I have no issue with Dustin winning.”
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/11/evan_grant_on_l.html
Well… that doesnt really make whole lot of sense…
by alskor on Nov 18, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I new it all along!
To all of you guys who said he swung a dainty stick i give you Dustin Pedroia MVP! .. Told ya!
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Nov 18, 2008 3:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I mean ..
I knew it!
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Nov 18, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Congrats
As an ASU season ticket holder since 2000, I say congrats. He is one of my favorite Devils of the Murphy tenure
by ScottAZ on Nov 18, 2008 4:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Boo
I know he’s an “everyman” sort on a popular team, but giving the MVP award to a guy who added only 2 WPA/LI to his team this year doesn’t fit with my idea of “value.”
I haven’t parsed the numbers, but I’d bet Manny contributed more wins to the Red Sox total than Pedroia, in half a season!
IMO, A-Rod, Quentin, Mauer, and perhaps even Sizemore would have been better selections.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
by Yakker on Nov 18, 2008 4:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's because
WPA is a rather poor metric for assessing long term value.
by aCone419 on Nov 18, 2008 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
How can you be so sure? Manny’s full-season WPA/Li was over 6, and, other than 07, he has consistently posted WPA/Lis in the 3s and 4s for the Sox.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
by Yakker on Nov 18, 2008 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
Looks like I’ll save you the trouble…Fangraphs does have partial-season WPA/Li numbers.
Sure enough, Manny contirbuted exactly 3 wins in his 100 games with the 2008 Red Sox (and another 3 in his 50+ games with the Dodgers—wow).
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
by Yakker on Nov 18, 2008 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
With his offense, natch
No idea about how much that was reduced by his D.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
by Yakker on Nov 18, 2008 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess.
I mean if you take VORP into account and everything, it could have been a worse selection. I personally was pulling for Ian Kinsler…
by METSMETSMETS on Nov 18, 2008 5:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Kinsler
It’s a shame he got hurt… I realize Pedroia’s defense is superior to his, but Kinsler’s offensive numbers would have dwarfed Pedroia’s if he would have been able to play 150+ games. Their BA and OBP essentially cancel each other out, and if you look at SLG, OPS+, RC/G, VORP per PA (VORP is based on PA as well as effectiveness), and baserunning (Kinsler was 26/28 in SB, plus despite Pedroia’s 20/21 SB rate, it has been shown that he was a less than effective baserunner overall) then it clearly shows that Kinsler was the more effective offensive player. Whether that would have translated well to the writers would have been interesting to see…
That being said, Pedroia had a great year in a less than stellar field. Maybe he shouldn’t have won, but I don’t see a major argument that would say that it was a horrible choice. Personally, I would have gone with Youkilis as the Red Sox MVP, but it is definitely an arguable point. Hell, at least Morneau didn’t win! :-)
by jc3 on Nov 19, 2008 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
With defense
Pedroia pulls a lot closer, but like I said above… Pedroia wasnt even the best 2B in the AL most of the season.
by alskor on Nov 19, 2008 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dustin Pedroia
Sorry, had to steal that pic from Letsgotribe.com
On a more serious note. The stupidity of the voters doesn’t just affect us as fans, but it also plays a factor in terms of finance and contract negotiations. I’m not really talking about dumb things like giving Lidge a 1st place vote, but situations where players get left off ballots completely for vague reasons (or sometimes just plain bias). The award has too much weight for that to happen. I’d be pretty pissed as a player if some ignorant baseball writer doesn’t vote for me at all because of rivalry, causing me to say goodbye to that extra money or option being picked up which would’ve happened if I won the MVP award. There should be more control, more strict policies and perhaps even consequences if some of the voters can’t/won’t explain themselves or do so with any lack of common sense.
Most fans know that the mvp award, and basically every other baseball award, has become somewhat of a joke. That’s not a good thing as long as awards affect players and teams beyond just a pat on the back.
by JP_Frost on Nov 18, 2008 7:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
pedroia
shall never be in the top 10 again….EVER!
by tuna411 on Nov 18, 2008 9:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like Lookout Landing's take
I know it’s beyond tired to complain about the BBWAA, but while some will take the selection of Pujols as a sign of how far they’ve come, I’d say the results would be better taken as a sign of how far they still have to go before we can even think about taking their opinions seriously. Pujols is the best player in baseball. By a healthy margin. And peak Chase Utley is one of the greatest second basemen in the history of the sport, a guy basically making a career out of Bret Boone’s presumably artificial ceiling. How that guy finished third on his own team – without a single top-three vote – just blows my mind to the point at which I have to cover my ears so as not to decorate the walls on either side of my head with boiling CSF.
It’s insane. It is inexcusable and completely insane. Brad Lidge? Ryan flipping Howard? It just – …no. You know who would’ve been a better first-place vote than Ryan Howard? Randy Winn. Or Brad Hawpe. Maybe even Fred diddly God damn Lewis. There were literally dozens of more valuable players in the NL this year than Ryan Howard. Howard finished second. 13 slots ahead of Chase Utley, who was the better player by at least like three or four wins. This is the stuff migraines are made of. Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave.
I wonder if there are any other fields in the world in which the people who cover a given topic know so little about the topic.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 18, 2008 10:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ack... all of that should be italicized
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 18, 2008 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Howard should not finish before Utley
But people get caught up in all the fancy statistics and forget the fact that he had 48 homers and 148 RBI. Obviously Utley has a much better VORP and a nicer line, but you cannot completely disregard Howard like some have done this season.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
by Baltimo on Nov 19, 2008 8:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
The whole point of things like VORP, WARP, WPA, Win Shares, etc is to more comprehensively quantify the entirety of a player’s contributions. Ryan Howard’s poor OBP over the course of the season likely cancels out much of the value added by his 48 Homeruns. As for 148 RBI’s, much of that is a function of the fact that Chase Utley hit ahead of him all season and got on base a whole lot.
by Ophidian on Nov 19, 2008 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
much of ryan howard's votes
came from his tremendous september, as referenced in the NL MVP discussion….right or wrong, september performance (and even perceived performance) means a ton….utley was not the cream of the crop on his own team in september, let alone the league:
howard – .352/.422/.852, 11 homers, 32 rbi
victorino – .344/.378/.516, 3, 9, 7 steals, 15 runs
rollins – .313/.411/.458, 2, 10, 9 steals, 15 runs
utley – .284/.369/.443, 2, 17, 21 runs
werth – 3 homers, 7 steals
burrell – 3 homers, 10 rbi
not saying utley should be a strong candidate, but for his brilliance in april, he was an .852 OPS guy the rest of the way….certainly nothing to sneeze at, especially from a 2b, but it is entirely possible that some writers steered their votes away because of that….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 19, 2008 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This makes sense
Because games in September count 1.5 times as much as games in April.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
by Yakker on Nov 19, 2008 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
never said they do
but that is the perception….when you aren’t producing at the same level late in the season, your early season success gets forgotten, or lessened, in the mind of voters….right or wrong, that is true….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 19, 2008 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Mauer?
Grady Sizemore?
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Nov 19, 2008 9:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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