Scouts: Beckham up by June?
by rdf8585 on Nov 17, 2008 1:57 AM EST
34 comments
"Scouts in Arizona for the Arizona Fall League and the White Sox's minor league people are convinced that Gordon Beckham, the eighth pick in the MLB draft this past June, will be Chicago's everyday second baseman by June." - Peter Gammons blog, 11/15/08
This is only 11 days after a rather poor report on Beckham on this site:
"I caught some buzz from other observers that people are concerned about his swing: they don't like the way it looks, kind of "choppy" was how one person described it to me. Scouts were also downplaying his range, and at least one person I spoke with said Beckham really didn't look like a guy who was drafted in the first round." - John Sickels 11/4/08
Beckham has been red hot in the AFL since the Sickels report was posted, raising his line there to .394/.468/.652 in 66 at bats.
What do you think? Interesting when there's apparantly conflicting views, but I'm with the optismistic side... always liked Beckham, but even June seems a bit soon. Who knows though. We'll see what he does between now and then and what, if anything, CWS does in FA/trades.
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I think
this was typical Gammons…
Im still waiting for Rafael Betancourt and Arquimedes Pozo to be Superstars.
by alskor on Nov 17, 2008 2:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dunno about a "superstar," but Rafael Betancourt's had a pretty good career, last year notwithstanding
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 2:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking about when the Red Sox signed him
and Gammons was touting him as a future front of the rotation starter…
by alskor on Nov 17, 2008 2:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he have to have major elbow surgery?
That’ll mess with anyone’s predictions. I’m sure plenty of people thought Dan Meyer was a future stud, too.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 3:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gammons was one of the first people I remember talking about a guy named Johan Santana was perhaps their best starter way back in ‘01/’02 when he was still in mostly a RP role.
by jfish26101 on Nov 17, 2008 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
deric mckamey had similar information before the AFL even began.
there seems to be a pretty deep cleave between scouts that guys like gammons and mckamey quote (nameless, of course, but appear to include white sox scouts) and people like john sickels and joe sheehan (admittedly not a scout) who seem to have some more serious concerns about beckham’s ability to progress quickly.
http://www.baseballhq.com/free/free081003.shtml
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 17, 2008 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget about...
Joaquin Arias….whom gammons plugged on espn radio and said was going to be a stud
by psugator on Nov 17, 2008 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gosh, you mean a guy who comments on baseball everyday for a living has held some opinions that haven't come true?
amazing. i guess we should expect perfection from people. i know you and i have no trouble achieving that – why can’t these other idiots?
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 17, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
second base????
That is concerning and actually matches Sickles report about concerns about his range.
I thought he may have trouble hitting but thought he was sure thing to stick at SS.
by novaoakland on Nov 17, 2008 2:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Or it could be more due to the fact that Alexei Ramirez is being moved to short, and, therefore, the open spot for Beckham would be 2B, not SS.
by The Big Hurt on Nov 17, 2008 3:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alexi could move back to second
Of course all speculation but I was just sold on Beckham at SS so them not just having Alexi move back is confusing.
by novaoakland on Nov 17, 2008 4:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you play Ramirez at short if someone else is a superior defender there?
I don’t watch the White Sox every day, but from what little I’ve seen of them, Ramirez looks Brendan Harris level of bad at MIF defense and looked like he should be moved to CF (or LF even).
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Nov 17, 2008 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
for what it's worth
ramirez was voted 9th in the Fielding Bible Awards. i don’t know if you want to put any stock in that, but i think it’s safe to say he’s at least a little better than brendan harris. that being said, he doesn’t appear to be anything better than marginal at ss
by ajake57 on Nov 17, 2008 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
was that 9th at SS or 2B
I have to assume 2B as he played so little at SS it was 2B and that is a big difference.
by novaoakland on Nov 17, 2008 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it was at 2b
my bad, it was 2b, and yes, you’re absolutely right about the difference. 22 players received votes at each position, and brendan harris didn’t get any, so i think my point still stands. i’m not saying ramirez would make a good shortstop… just that he’s not exactly a lost cause out there either
by ajake57 on Nov 17, 2008 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at who voted for him though
Other than the Tango poll (which placed him 9th) and Dewan (who placed him 10th), I don’t really put a lot of stock in the other people who voted for him.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Nov 17, 2008 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
and that one 3rd place vote does really skew the ballotting, but that still leaves him somewhat better than harris, doesn’t it? i don’t know, it’s probably a moot point anyway
by ajake57 on Nov 17, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and i'd never put a whole lot of stock into one year of defensive stats and observations, either.
ramirez didn’t look too pretty out there at 2B, i can tell you that from watching him daily. great arm, great ability on pop-ups, good at turning the DP but, among other issues, was terrible at positioning himself as cut off man and seemed to have trouble moving laterally on grounders – which doesn’t exactly bode well for SS. however, SS is his natural position and some of his issues could be chalked up to unfamiliarity with a position he never played before last season.
at any rate, he’s going to be the starting SS for the white sox next year. it certainly isn’t unusual for a young SS like beckham to break in as a 2B and then move to SS later. i would imagine the scouts gammons is talking to include white sox scouts. you don’t run around shooting your mouth off about where a guy who hasn’t played above A ball will be playing when your GM has stated who the starting SS will be next year. 2B is the logical place for him to go if he miraculously manages to make it to the big leagues next june considering that’s basically an open position on the sox and appears like it will be filled by relatively uninspiring stop gap options like chris getz or jayson nix. after he shows he can hit in the big leagues, the logical step is to evaluate where he (and ramirez) fits defensively going forward. moving ramirez mid-season to make room for a rookie strikes me as a great way to add unnecessary pressure to beckham. better to pencil him in as a replacement for players who haven’t managed to make themselves cult heroes among the fanbase and the press, as ramirez has.
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 17, 2008 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What difference...
…does it make that YOU think Beckham will be up by September and not June?? Not to be cranky but what difference does it make what I think either? I’d say Gammons has better info than ANY of us I imigine. If not…feel free to chime in.
I’m of the opinion that the scout(s) John spoke may be idiots/outliers instead of just the latter.
Hasn’t anybody here SEEN Beckham play some SS at Georgia?? He’s quick and has a strong arm and good hands. He can play SS but he’d be good at 2b as well obviously.
Btw, to that scout who said Beckham didn’t “look like a player drafted in the first round” He’s a BALLPLAYER! There’s a scout term for ya. Good ones come in all shapes and sizes. Scouts don’t need to know this but GM’s, managers and amateur prospect evaluators do.
by casejud on Nov 17, 2008 4:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
doesn't it somewhat depend
on what else Kenny Williams does this offseason in that, I don’t see Kenny Williams going into 2009 thinking, okay, I can have a stopgap at 2nd and wait on Gordon to come up.
As for whether Gordon is good enough, no clue. I’d imagine, as casejud notes, that Gammons has heard something to suggest that, and based upon his recent AFL performance, it makes some sense that people would laud the guy. That said, it is the AFL in the end, and while I liked Beckham in the draft, I’ve never gotten all that high or low based on AFL performances for some reason.
by toonsterwu on Nov 17, 2008 5:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just to recall some classic Gammons moments....
I still remember when he predicted Bobby Crosby to win AL MVP.
Also, last year, he said Ryan Zimmerman would hit 50 HR. Nice call Pete.
by brok515 on Nov 17, 2008 10:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
John's Info
I recall he posted some negative reports he heard in Arizona, and I actually even used that when someone suggested he was due in the community prospect poll, and then he went and had a multi-hit, 2 homer game and went on an AFL tear. And of course, AFL stats shouldn’t mean that much, but it was funny.
So much of this is who the hell knows. Fact he was high first round pick, and then some scout in AFL tells John he doesn’t look like a 1st round pick, but of course before the draft everyone had him high on the draft board, etc., yada yada. Maybe he just got out of bed wrong oneday and the scout didn’t like how he looked.
As for gammons, well, he gets good info but at times just plain wrong. That hapens too.
by wobatus on Nov 17, 2008 11:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
bashing
First of all, lay off the Gammons bashing guys. He’s not always right, but he is very tied into industry buzz and is often a good barometer of what people in the game are thinking.
Second, this whole thing is about the perils of small sample size. Beckham wasn’t playing well in Arizona at first, but then right after I posted that report he goes ape-shit with the bat, and suddenly looks great again. He’s a human being….these things happen. People were overreacting to what he was doing early and getting down on him, and now they are overreacting to what he is doing late and saying he’ll be up by June.
Let’s see how he looks in spring training and in April and May.
by John Sickels on Nov 17, 2008 11:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Gammons is the man. NOBODY in the sports media is right 100% of the time when it comes to stories or predictions. Heck, if a guy is right all the time making predicitions, he wouldn’t be writing, he would be in Vegas putting down money at the sports book.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 17, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like most reporters
Gammons should be listened to for his reporting, not his opinion.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Nov 17, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good points
I found it all pretty funny. of course, I have nothing to go on but an amalgam of other peoples’ opinions, and in some acses some stats 9in this case just a few AFL stats, his college days, etc). I have never seen Beckham play. As I said, a lot of this is who the hell knows.
by wobatus on Nov 17, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey guys
Let’s wait until 2015 before we decide what kind of player Gordon Beckham is.
by gogotabata on Nov 17, 2008 12:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If this is your attitude
then why exactly do you frequent a prospect website?
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Nov 17, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you sure it's not to laugh at people who don't have sarcasm detectors?
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 17, 2008 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What... and miss
out on our opportunity for 15 miliseconds of fame on the worldwide web that we achieve as unqualified/uncredentialed critics?
by slurve on Nov 17, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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