What to expect from these former top prospects?
by nyy601 on Nov 11, 2008 8:15 PM EST
63 comments
Some prospects come right out the gate and you know they will be a star (Bruce, Longoria, Lincecum, Upton). However, thats usually not the case for most. How do you guys see the former top prospects panning out:
Phil Hughes...does he regain his stuff he had before the injuries? can he get through an entire year without getting hurt? will he ever live up to his #1 pitching prospect in baseball status?
Clay Buchholz....another guy with injury problems last year. Will he be the pitcher that dominated most of his rookie year or the one that stuggled almost all of last season.
Billy Butler...turns out he may not be the next Manny Ramirez. Does he find a defensive position? Were is his power?
Alex Gordon...hasn't come close to living up to his potential. Evan Longoria turned out to be everything Gordon was supposed to be. Does he start putting it together next year?
Andy LaRoche...is it possible for him to not be hurt?
Jarrod Saltalamachia...can he stay at catcher? Does he stay in Texas?
Daric Barton...were does he play? Is he a career DH or can he make it at 1B? Will the power come? Still think is a future batting champion?
Adam Jones....all the talent in the world, but does he put it all together?
Carlos Gonzalez...will he put up big numbers in Coors?
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I think .280 Avg 20 HR 20 SB
Very solid, but not a superstar
by nyy601 on Nov 11, 2008 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then
what does that makes Curtis Granderson?
by METSMETSMETS on Nov 12, 2008 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Last year
he was just above average. Not close to what he did in 2007.
I never said Milledge would hit .300 with 38 doubles and 23 triples. If he did that then of course he would be more than “very solid”.
And Granderson is much better defensively.
by nyy601 on Nov 12, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thoughts on these guys
Hughes…not a #1. I do like him though, might be a tad bumpy early on but I think long term he is a #2/#3.
Buchholz…I could see him as a #1, the stuff is fantastic, but he really really really (i can’t emphasize this enough) needs to improve the fastball command. it is just not good, at least the last time I saw him.
Butler…would like to see him at 1B everyday, he’s not even close to as bad as made out to be. looked better after the all-star break. i still think he will be traded, hopefully not though.
Gordon…he is truly getting better. did very well in 2nd half of season, we will see but i think he’s still going to be a top tier hitter with a very high OBP.
Laroche…ugh. I didn’t see him enough to really make a judgment.
Salty…decent bat at C if he can just PLAY. that may not be in Texas.
Barton…I do not doubt that he has decent power (either that or i just caught him on good days). not a top tier 1B, could be averageish if just given time.
Gonzalez…I dunno man. he has pretty poor plate discipline and strikes out a ton. when he makes contact he hits the ball really hard, but it’s not even close to often enough. needs more time but i am not optimistic
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Nov 11, 2008 8:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Clay
Buchholz…I could see him as a #1, the stuff is fantastic, but he really really really (i can’t emphasize this enough) needs to improve the fastball command. it is just not good, at least the last time I saw him.
Buchholz is back. The command problems were mechanical, as had been presumed all season long. That was why the Sox sent him back down to AA – to fix his delivery. He looked phenomenal in the AFL just now. His lost his mechanics earlier in the year – and then he lost confidence. Bet the house on him killing it in 2009. He’s a stud.
Keith Law: Idiot.
by alskor on Nov 11, 2008 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the info
obviously it doesn’t tell the whole story, but his stats weren’t that sexy in the AFL. like i said, i would not at all be surprised if he was really good.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Nov 11, 2008 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really like Barton
He probably won’t be a superstar but I think he’ll almost certainly be an average major league 1B, and possibly an outstanding one.
When everybody loved Barton, it was because though he had little HR power, he managed to hit a lot of 2Bs and 3Bs, walked an obscene amount of times, and struck out rarely enough that he could hit for a high batting average. At age 19, he had an OPS above .900 in both A+ and AA. Since then, he had a year where he was injured, a year where a dip in his batting average brought his OPS down to .823 in AAA at age 21, and a disastrous first year in the majors. Though his power slipped slightly at age 22 in the majors, and his strikeout rate went up slightly and his walk rate dipped slightly, his real problem was a terrible BABIP despite hitting plenty of LDs. Considering he’ll be 23 next year, and it’s his second year in the majors, I think he’ll come back hard. Realistically, I’d bet for an .800-.850 OPS, with a possibility for a .900+ – not a superstar, but maybe a younger, cheaper Conor Jackson
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by OldProspects on Nov 11, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Upside
looks very Olerud-esque, probably with a lesser AVG, but hell it’s hard to match Olerud numbers.
by METSMETSMETS on Nov 12, 2008 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, except for Olerud's bizzarely good '94 and '98
I think that makes sense. Even with those years, his career BA was .295, which might be a little low, even, for Barton. Barton probably won’t hit as many homers, but maybe a few extra doubles and triples.
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 14, 2008 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Watched LaRoche play with the Bucs..
..and I have a theory that there is something mentally wrong with the LaRoche brothers.
They are both so talented, but for whatever reason, they both are just really, really bad with pressure on them. Adam has had the weight of the Pirates organization on his shoulders the first half of the last two seasons (I know, not much weight to put on him in the Burgh, but he seems like a people pleaser, and people aren’t pleased by his April/May struggles, and he is very much aware of it).
Andy was damn near unstoppable in the minors, but has been atrocious in big league stadiums. For a guy with as good a batting eye as Andy showed in the minors, its almost baffling that he’s struggling this badly with big league pitching. Guys like him are usually the ones who are less likely to struggle in their first go-round with MLB pitchers. I really think there’s something mentally wrong here.
I think both guys just tend to press too hard. Maybe Papa LaRoche was too hard on them, or not hard enough, or something. From a Pirate fan’s perspective though, that’s what it seems like.
by jseiner on Nov 11, 2008 8:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Adam
has actually has a pretty good career. Four straight 20+ homer seasons, three straight 85+ RBI, and a career .832 OPS. Andy doesn’t look like he will get close to that with his play last season.
by nyy601 on Nov 11, 2008 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Position
Problem with Adam is that an 832 OPS isn’t exactly setting the world on fire from the 1B position.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
by Yakker on Nov 11, 2008 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
An .832 OPS
is solidly above average, even for a 1B.
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 11, 2008 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
I guess it depends on what you consider “solidly above-average.” In 2008, an 832 OPS would have been 15th out of 27 qualifying 1Bs, per fangraphs. In 2007, 832 would have been 17 out of 20.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
by Yakker on Nov 11, 2008 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a monster from July 1 on
We all know the talent is there. But twice now, he’s entered the season in Pittsburgh saying that he expects to be the key in the Pirate’s line-up, and flopped. His career OPS’s in April/May/June are .605/.810/.746. In July/August/September he OPS’s (interesting to use as a verb..) .989/.893/.926.
There’s something that doesn’t click with him in the season’s first half, and my proposed thesis is that he presses early in the year, when there’s some semblance of hope that the Bucs might win some games.
by jseiner on Nov 11, 2008 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, Only Presses Early?
That theory doesn’t make much sense. Why doesn’t he press come June when he is sub mendoza line?
BTW, this pre-dated Pittsburgh. The guy is a monster once the weather heats up. It just seems more likely to me that it takes him a while to get going, not that he is pressing too much early on.
As or Andy, he was injured. Wrist injury. may have healed but he was already behind. maybe he did press.
Anyway, i don’t get the sense there is some laRoche family issue with pressure.
by wobatus on Nov 12, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
read below
on ADD and his cycling, something discussed when he was in Atlanta….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 12, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Andy just needs to play
The Dodgers repeatedly yanked him around and some of the freakish injuries he suffered didn’t help matters. If the Pirates just plug him in every day and let him play, struggle, and make adjustments then I’m confident he’ll turn out just fine. For some odd reason teams love to flip out over a 50 AB sample and make a snap decision that a guy “can’t hit major league pitching”.
by Ophidian on Nov 13, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Jones
I don’t think there is much to worry about except the walks issue. He had the best season out of all those players.
by Orioles77 on Nov 11, 2008 9:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Except the walks are kind of a big issue
Gordon had a better season, by quite a bit actually.
Jones: 85 OPS+
Gordon: 110 OPS+
I’d be more optimistic about Jones if he actually improved from the first to second half…but if anything his stats really dropped off.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Nov 11, 2008 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah and who cares about defense
Total Value:
Jones – 17.3
Gordon – 12.5
WARP
Jones – 2.8
Gordon 3.1
Of course, Gordon had a better season, by quite a bit, right?
by bigboy1234 on Nov 11, 2008 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If only I believed in putting a numerical value on defense...
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Nov 11, 2008 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't really need numbers
to see that Jones is a very good defensive CF and Gordon is an average defensive 3B.
by nyy601 on Nov 11, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I suppose the original intent was to say that it would have been nice to see Jones get BETTER as the season went on, like Gordon has done both his first two seasons.
Injury maybe?
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Nov 11, 2008 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be the injury
I think I remember him heating up right before he got hurt.
I am pretty sure that Gordon will put up better numbers than Jones. The only thing is that if Gordon is a career .280 hitter with 20-25 homers a year he will be considered a disapointment.
by nyy601 on Nov 11, 2008 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
correct...
After watching him in CF for a majority of the season, I have no doubt that he’ll win Gold Gloves some day, or at least deserve them. Not quite yet, but he’s quite stunning out there given his age and experience.
He started to really turn it around in June/July before his injury, and I expect those two months to represent his ability over his career, with more power (.280/.350/.500).
Torii Hunter is always the comparison I hear, and it’s a good one. Fantastic defense, 25-35 homer peak, not too many walks. Not gonna ask for much more than that from a CF.
by Lt Melmo on Nov 11, 2008 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Barton's not moving to DH anytime soon
He was very good defensively last season. Offensively, not so much, of course.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 9:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Butler
Do people forget he is 22? The kid mashed in the second half hitting:
.305 AVG
9 HR
.476
What makes the homers more impressive is that he did it in only 57 games. What I find most impressive about Butler is that he shows power and average while maintaining remarkable contact. He looks poised to be a stud hitter beginning in 2009. People need to remember that it is a lot easier to put up great numbers in AA or AAA as a 22 year old instead of in the major leagues.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 11, 2008 9:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Royals Fan
And that is not mashing. Mashing is when you DOMINATE. That is a good hitter. It’s not impressive either, unless you account for the fact that he is only 22. That I do, I just take exception to the “mashing” term. Yes, he was better, even good. No, he didn’t mash. Finally, we can take numerous players’ nmbers and manipulate them; Adam LaRoche, for example, also “mashed” in the 2nd half. Are we to infer that he too, after 3 years of the same trend, will become a better player? The “kid” hit well, he didn’t “mash”. He has age and potential on his side. Just don’t manipulate stats. I’m optimistic, and i hope we don’t trade him, but let’s not overrate what he’s done…
by killa on Nov 11, 2008 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Sorry to offend you with the word “mashed”.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 12, 2008 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
here we go
Phil Hughes – #1 potential, but it depends on whether your definition of #1 is the top 15ish pitchers in the game, or good enough to be the ace of a staff of any team…injuries are too difficult to predict, but his injuries really haven’t been motion-related thus far…
Clay Buchholz – I’ve never been as high on him as others…i think he returns, but to where i thought he’d be before…a good #3 or an elite #4….
Billy Butler – contact sure hasn’t been an issue, and there’s lots of room in this world for a guy who can hit .300 year-in, year-out….however, there’s usually room for those guys because they usually bring with them stellar defense as well, a la Mark Grace…time will tell…the stroke has lots of room for power, but whether he realizes it is anyone’s guess…if he does, look out….if he doesn’t, a career like paul molitor’s without the baserunning ability wouldn’t surprise me….
Alex Gordon – not coming close is overstating it, Gordon is still young, has shown ability to both hit for power and steal bases, and he’s played at least passingly at 3b while doing it…he had a 91 point delta in OBP this year, which tells me his eye has at least begun to adjust to MLB pitching….huge leap forward in year two in many metrics indicate his growth curve is certainly up, and there’s no reason to assume he will not be the star that he was presumed to be….
Andy LaRoche – simply not impressed with anything I’ve seen at the MLB level with him…his brother has a mental disorder to explain a lot of his issues….may andy be undiagnosed, but suffering from a similar mental disorder?
Jarrod Saltalamachia – has played solid defense through the minors, so staying at the position should not be an issue, but his size suggests he may outgrow crouching 200 times a game 6 days per week….has shown plenty of flashes with the bat to make one think that he could hold his own…compares favorably to fellow switch hitter jorge posada, who busted out as a full time starter at age 28 after spending time sharing time for three years at the MLB level….
Daric Barton – once he moved off catcher, i thought he should have been drastically dropped as a prospect, but i was rebuked many times for that thought…his bat has never been powerful, and he’s shown very little ability to hit for average at the MLB level…i just don’t foresee much here, and i won’t have an issue if i’m wrong….
Adam Jones – had a solid first season, much like gordon, not an instant superstar, so some feel like he’s falling, but he showed a lot the first year and should continue to progress strongly…
Carlos Gonzalez – doubtful he’ll stay at Coors, but he’d have a great skillset to succeed at Coors…still has the raw tools, and one half season of streaks of struggle and success does not knock him off the pedestal quite yet, regardless of his final destination….
Lastings Milledge – lots to like this year, but i want to see it more than one year before i’m ready to say he’s going to be the superstar all Mets fans wanted him to be…but certainly should be a starting outfielder at the major league level for a while…
Elijah Dukes – see milledge
Kendry Morales – i’d love to see the angels give him a chance, but he’s not really grabbed hold of the job when he’s had a chance before….
Rickie Weeks – everything BUT contact has shown up…speed, power….this guy was getting a hit half the time with an aluminum bat, but can’t even get one one-quarter of the time with wood…i just can’t get a read on this guy…i have seen him in person five times, and i’d wager to say he has 10 hits in those five times, so i’ve never seen him not hitting well…
Conor Jackson – along the lines of Butler, but with defensive upside if his power never does come…i haven’t seen a lot of him in person, and the strike zone judgement is great, so there’s lots to like, especially the double digit steals this year….but 30 homers and 10 steals would be elite….15 homers and 10 steals rests in that mark grace territory….
Andy Marte – in about 500 ABs in the majors, he’s had 44 extra base hits, which isn’t terrible, but the .211 average sure is…his OPS has gone DOWN each of his three seasons at AAA….that said, he will only be 24 next year….the big knock last year was that his fielding went to crap, though metrics say it went there the year before….if he’s not a solid defender, as was his reputation in atlanta’s system, then he’ll never be allowed to get his feet under him as a hitter in the majors….i want to see this guy succeed, but i just don’t think he will…
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 11, 2008 9:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Adam LaRoche
He was diagnosed with ADD which caused mental lapses in games. I would not blame his lack of consistency on this though, there is no evidence of a direct link.
by tdot mariner fan on Nov 11, 2008 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ADD
ADD has a lot of weather and seasonal related peaks and valleys….adam’s cycle is about mid-april….he tends to struggle through early months because of this…increased stress and/or pressure has been linked to increase ADD symptoms in a host of those suffering from the illness, so it is purely possible that the disease is holding him back in that regard….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 12, 2008 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
Didn’t realize that was how ADD worked. Kind of explains a lot…
by jseiner on Nov 12, 2008 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
many mental illnesses
behave in the same way, with the sufferer having a point during the year when he/she shows heavy symptoms despite medication levels….ADD is a mental illness, much like bipolar or schizophrenia…very similar behaviors within the brain….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 12, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the clarification
I had no idea to the extent of the effect of ADD. I guess that could explain more than just fielding errors due to mental lapses.
by tdot mariner fan on Nov 12, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't know that either about laroche
One lives and learns.
Then again, to me ADD is just this generic catchall quite often for slackerdom.
by wobatus on Nov 12, 2008 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ADD
…is INCREDIBLY overdiagnosed, mainly because you don’t have to be a licensed doctor in the psychiatric community in order to diagnose the disease and have it become a permanent part of a child’s record in school….the disease is incredibly debilitating to those who truly suffer from it….if i recall correctly, adam was diagnosed by a psychiatrist, so he truly suffers from the disease….
as far as “slacker”, i’m not sure i follow that comment as most of the diagnosis made incorrectly are because of kids who are overactive as a youth in school….so not “slacking” so much as “misbehaving”….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 12, 2008 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ADD is also overdiagnosed
Because wealthy families realize that it can, oddly, add advantages to their children by giving them extra time in things like the SATs. They use psychiatrists to get those diagnoses, but very, um, liberal psychiatrists. This isn’t to imply that Laroche doesn’t actually have it, of course
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by OldProspects on Nov 12, 2008 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
i work in the mental health field, and it frustrates me, to say the least, the very capable people who are diagnosed with a disease that truly ruins the lives of clients i work with…
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 12, 2008 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gordon did NOT play passable defense this year
TPJ...you're dead to me
by billybeingbilly on Nov 12, 2008 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
depends
….on what your idea of “passable” is….to me, passing is league average, which he was….if you want better than that, then you would be disappointed….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 12, 2008 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, passable is probably below league average
Passable is probably around 25th or so, and maybe even lower
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on Nov 12, 2008 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i’d accept slightly below average in my definition as well…basically, if it’s the bottom 5 in the league, it’s subpar….if it’s top 5, it’s elite…..otherwise to me, it’s somewhere on the scale of “passable”
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 12, 2008 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon was in the bottom 5 in the league
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
here come more defensive metrics
which i count about as reliable as a pizza hut employee’s math abilities….
guys who played the majority of their team’s games a 3b….mark reynolds, bill hall, jorge cantu, jose castillo, aramis ramirez….i’d put all them below gordon….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 12, 2008 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll add a couple more
Homer Bailey?
Carlos Gomez?
Ian Kennedy?
Justin Masterson?
by Bravesin07 on Nov 11, 2008 10:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
...
I think Bailey turns out to be a solid #3 starter. There is a nice thread on him a couple down.
For Gomez, his speed will keep him in the majors. Very good range and a lot of stolen bases. Some infield hits and he will get the extra base on balls hit in the gap. I don’t see him developing any power though.
Kennedy will never be a consistent starter with his weak fastball.
I really like Masterson. I think he will challenge Buchholz for a spot in the Sox rotation.
by nyy601 on Nov 11, 2008 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my takes
homer bailey – read the thread below….
carlos gomez – got to see him a ton this year, in person and on TV….speed in buckets, defense is tremendous….that will keep him on a roster for a long, long time if only as a pinch runner/defensive replacement type….what i was very surprised about watching him in person vs. on TV was his swing….it looks incredibly long on television, but it is lightening quick through the zone….i think he could develop some very solid power….he swings at everything right now, which is a major hinderance, but if he’s allowed to learn in the 9 hole and not expected to leadoff, he could grow into a good furcal type with the bat with similar value in centerfield….
ian kennedy – was never a top prospect….
justin masterson – i actually like him long-term more than buchholz….though, i feel he might have a longer career as a closer….i could see a very solid #3 for him, and possibly even growing to even better than that….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 11, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Gomez
I think his upside is to have Jose Reyes’ offensive profile, with plus-plus defense in center.
by aap212 on Nov 12, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gomez
reyes would certainly be the top side….but i would say more of a furcal/rollins profile with lower OBP would be more accurate as a realistic end of things….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 12, 2008 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
Carlos Gonzalez, Andy LaRoche, Carlos Gomez, Salty, Gordon, and Hughes all put it together next season. Gonzalez is in the perfect situation to put up big numbers in Coors. He will have better protection and will love hitting in that very small park. LaRoche will put up decent numbers. I could see hime batting around 280 with 15 homers. I think Gomez will sow better plate discipline and have a better OBP. Salty will probably be traded and start doing well there. Gordon will finally take over the Royals and be the star they have not had since Brett. Finally, Hughes should put it together and round out the Yankees rotation pretty well next year.
by joegonzo on Nov 11, 2008 11:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Colorado is a huge park
By outfield area it’s, I believe, #2 in baseball after Comerica.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 5:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yep....
most assume coors is a small park because of the hitting that happens there, but part of the reason batting averages are higher is the extra outfield for a ball to drop in….the ball does carry better in the thin air, which leads to higher home run numbers, but since the humidor, i believe that has really calmed down, too….i’d have to look at the stats, though to check on that…
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 12, 2008 7:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what about
Edwin Jackson, Danny Cabrera, Zach Duke, Mark Teahen, Clint Barmes, Ryan Garko….
by METSMETSMETS on Nov 12, 2008 10:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
um...
were they really top prospects?
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 12, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jackson and Duke were, I'm pretty sure
Teahen made the BA top 100 once…
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Nov 13, 2008 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
my comment should have been “were they ALL really top prospects”….i remember when edwin jackson once was….i remember with duke….and cabrera had a ton of expectation, but i think he went from “not thought much of” to major leagues in the same year, so he really didn’t have much time to be a prospect….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Nov 13, 2008 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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