Community Prospect List: #26
by King Billy Royal on Nov 1, 2008 12:17 PM EDT
Email
PrintAfter 329 votes the winner is Angel Villalona with 20% of the vote. The next highest vote getter was Jhoulys Chacin with 17%. Austin Jackson, Wade Davis, and Jesus Montero will be removed from the poll as they received less then 5%. Ben Revere, Jarrod Parker, Fernando Martinez, and Logan Morrison will be added to the poll. If you wish to vote other just list the person below. This way we're not wasting a spot.
1. MATT WIETERS - C (Baltimore)
2. DAVID PRICE - SP (Tampa Bay)
3. JASON HEYWARD - OF (Atlanta)
4. TRAVIS SNIDER - OF (Toronto)
5. MADISON BUMGARNER - SP (San Francisco)
6. COLBY RASMUS - OF (St. Louis)
7. CAMERON MAYBIN - OF (Florida)
8. TREVOR CAHILL - SP (Oakland)
9. NEFTALI FELIZ - SP (Texas)
10. MATT LAPORTA - 1B/OF/DH (Cleveland)
11. MIKE MOUSTAKAS - 3B (Kansas City)
12. TIM ALDERSON - SP (San Francisco)
13. PEDRO ALVAREZ - 3B (Pittsburgh)
14. RICK PORCELLO - SP (Detroit)
15. DEXTER FOWLER - OF (Colorado)
16. BRETT ANDERSON - SP (Oakland)*
17. DEREK HOLLAND - SP (Texas)
18. ANDREW McCUTCHEN - OF (Pittsburgh)
19. BUSTER POSEY - C (San Francisco)
20. CHRIS TILLMAN - SP (Baltimore)
21. LARS ANDERSON - 1B (Boston)
22. JUSTIN SMOAK - 1B (Texas)
23. THOMAS HANSON - SP (Atlanta)
24. ELVIS ANDRUS - SS (Texas)
25. ANGEL VILLALONA - 1B (San Francisco)
CANDIDATES - Jhoulys Chacin, Brian Matusz, Tim Beckham, Michael Stanton, Max Ramirez, Eric Hosmer, Logan Morrison, Jarrod Parker, Fernando Martinez, Ben Revere
TESTERS - Yonder Alonso, Carlos Santana, Freddie Freeman, Michael Saunders, Carlos Triunfel, Gordon Beckham, Josh Vitters, Mat Gamel, Wade Davis, Austin Jackson, Jesus Montero, Greg Halman
Please post more ideas for testers and we will consider them
52 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Eric Hosmer
Big huge gigantic power. There are other very good bats on this list right now (Stanton, Beckham and Max all have a chance to be very good), but I see Hosmer as a potentially special bat.
A few choice quotes from BA’s draft report card chat:
: Q: Ross from CA asks:
Can you give me 5 players who have 40 HR power from this years draft? Is Roger Kieschnick one of them?
John Manuel: I think those days are over, Ross. Roger Kieschnick has 30 homer power if he makes consistent contact; he’s a streaky guy, a rhythm hitter whose timing can be upset. But he’s really strong and has big raw power, probably top 5-10 of the draft — after Hosmer, Smoak, Alvarez (you can shake up those three in a hat), plus Brett Lawrie, A. Dykstra, G. Beckham, Skipworth and B. Wallace. Ike Davis and David Cooper are in the discussion as well.
Q: Victor from San Diego asks:
Smoak over Alonso, would you have taken him over Hosmer too?
Jim Callis: No, I would have taken Hosmer.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
He had Huge power in high school
So did Drew Henson and countless others.
Yah and lots of guys had Huge power in the minors and never worked out, so what's your point?
The scouts and prospecty peoples all love the kid and think the world of his potential, and I tend to listen to what they have to say.
And Drew Henson is a bit of a special case, doncha think? I know you’re just throwing his name out there cause he’s the guy who makes all hyped high school power hitters look terrible by association, but the reality is that no one knows what he might’ve done if he’d chosen baseball exclusively out of high school.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
+1 Hosmer
I’m fine with Chacin here, but really think Hosmer is best hitting prospect left on this board.
by RoyalsFan4Life on Nov 1, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
CHACIN
This guy has multiple plus pitches and the results to back it up. He improved as he moved up the minor league levels this year and I see no reason why he won’t be a frontline starter one day. Besides, somebody needs to take over the “Chacin Cologne” brand (Jays fans know what I’m referring too).
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 1, 2008 12:29 PM EDT reply actions
Tester Requester
1) Chris Perez. He is still eligible at 41 IP in the majors, is nearly a lock for a major league job next year, and has been dominant as a minor leaguer, with a K/BB+H of well over 1.00. His obvious flaw is BB (5.94/9), but OTOH, his K rate (12.13/9) is terrific and his H rate (5.03/9) is spectacular. Guys with that kind of K and H rates often turn the corner with BB while still keeping majors-caliber pitches. I think Perez’s ceiling is still as a dominant closer, and that warrants top-30 consideration here. There’s no argument about his stuff, just the control, and the Cards are going to throw a lot of effort at improving the control. As a comp, a good one might be Bobby Jenks, though Perez has better results than where Jenks was in the upper minors (not as wild, better hit rates, better K rates).
2) Michael Burgess. Someone on the last list asked for Chris Marrerro – I’d rather have Burgess, who I think is the closest player left to Travis Snider in terms of likely to follow a similar path from ages 18-21. Burgess put up an .846 OPS as a 19-yr-old in the A+ Carolina League (71 AB) and an .800 in the A SAL league. He’s got a good walk rate (~10 to 12%, where you want it in a young prospect), serious power (at least .220 in 3 of 4 stops as a pro), and a problematic strikeout rate. He could easily flame out, but he could also easily follow Snider and turn into anyone from a Jonny Gomes to a Nick Swisher even with the Ks. If he drops the K rate (and he’s still young enough to do it), watch out.
3) Jordan Schafer. Bad out of the gate in 2008, but the .200 ISOP in his first taste of AA, with a great walk rate (14%) and all that defense are worth a tester soon. His K rate was high at AA, but has not normally been so at other levels, and even at AA was not enough to keep from posting strong secondary stats. At age 21 in AA, he’s also in teh good ARL group. I still think his ceiling is Jim Edmonds (his development seems slightly ahead of Edmonds, with more power so far).
I think these guys deserve a tester in the late 20s, and hope there’s some discussion instead of passing over as SNTS.
What they all have in common is undeniable All-Star talent, coupled with demonstrated performance, and a hurdle that is still realistic to think they can overcome.
Little early
I don’t think Chris Perez qualifies as he pitched in 41 games. Guys are only considered rookies when they spend fewer than 45 days on the active rosters of Major League clubs (excluding DL time or any time after rosters are expanded on September 1st). Regardless I think people would be hesitant to put any relieving prospect this high.
I like Burgess but it will be a little while before he gets a tester as there are some more deserving candidates who haven’t got a shot yet. Schafer is a good prospect but his stock took a big hit this year with the HGH revelations.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 1, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Service time?
Has the eligibility for this list changed from recent years? We’ve always based it on minimum IP/AB, not on service time because service time can be such as hassle to figure out. If this is a change, we should re-post it in some way, because once we get towards AA or AAA guys with lower ceilings, it’ll come into play a little more.
Fair enough...
Perez is a good prospect but I don’t think he deserves a tester quite yet. I will get him on soon but it is still a little early. Perhaps around the #30 mark.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 1, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Service time
I’m personally cool with it either way, I just want to know. I can’t think of a player coming up that will matter for, but there always seems to be one.
As for Perez, I agree, he’s a 30ish tester. Thanks for considering.
For next year
What would you think about the following eligibility criteria for next seasons list?
130 at bats
50 innings for a starter
30 innings for a reliever
I think that may make more sense from a prospect point of view.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 1, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That makes sense
But you could condense the pitching into 50IP OR 20 Appearances-for a Joba-like situation might take care of that too.
That seems fair
Next year we should definitely work on a new system because 70 innings is WAY too many for a relief pitcher.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Nov 1, 2008 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
My two cents
I like the KISS approach – just keep it to MLB innings and ABs, which are criteria that are pretty hard for people to get all crotchety about. I agree it seems like RPs and SPs could use different criteria, but then it opens up a whole other can of worms (what about the project starter that got used an RP in his first callup?).
All in all, the criteria thus far seem to be working, even though I can see the logic behind a change.
Rebuttal
“Regardless, I think people would be hesistant to put any relieving prospect this high.”
Except for John Sickels:
- 5 – Craig Hansen
- 9 Jon Papelbon
- 10 – Fernando Cabrera
- 12 – Joel Zumaya
- - Jonathon Broxton
Those are top 50 pitchers from his 2006 book. I think consideration should be based on the player and his peer group, not just position. Let’s face it, there aren’t a lot of starting pitchers left that are slam dunks this year – we’re down to guys that either look great at low levels, or look like #3s at high levels. I’d take the guy that has a 50% chance of become Bobby Jenks over any of those.
cecil
He could end up a number 2 down the line. A lot of these guys could though, so more a question of likelihood. I like Huff, too. I know he may seem more like 3-4, but he could end up a 2. I think when we say 2 we are talking like the 10 best 2s. And there are some lower down guys, as you say.
Looks like John was a little too high on Hansen anyway. :)
Question
The Rangers seem to have moved him up kinda slowly, given that he’s always hit well. What’s the story there?
Too many catchers in front of him.
Teagarden was taking ABs from him in Frisco for awhile, and then Tea was blocked there by Saltalamacchia in OKC for awhile too.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 1, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Question
Why is their more love for Villalona than Stanton?
There is ONLY a 9 month age difference between the two.
Lets look at the numbers (both in Low A):
1B Villalona: .263, .312, .435, .747, 29 2Bs, 17 HRs, 18 BBs, 118 Ks
CF Stanton: .293, .381, .611, .992, 26 2Bs, 39 HRs, 58 BBs, 153 Ks
I think both players have tremendous upsides, however, I just don’t understand why Villalona gets SO MUCH more support than Stanton.
Now raise your goblet of rock. It's a toast to those who rock!
age
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
huge k's
for me. as he moves up he’s going to have to show he can hit more of a fastball, which i’ve heard is his problem. there’s tons of guys who hit hr’s in the minors that never progress because they can’t hit off-speed stuff.
Im a Giants fan and I voted for Chacin, check my history if you want. I dont know if other Giants fans are stuffing or whats going on.
I see the future, and it is Pablo
Giants Fans
There are definitely a lot of real baseball fans who aren’t biased(like you), but I think other Giants fans are definitely stuffing because Villanona is on way too early.
I have
Hosmer, Morrison, Freeman, Montero and T. Beckham ahead of Stanton as far as hitters go.
by RoyalsFan4Life on Nov 1, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Why? Because the Giants have fans who stuff ballots and Florida's fan slept in
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
From here I'm going:
Chacin, Matusz, Ramirez, Stanton, Beckham, Martinez, Morrison, Santana
I went hosmer,
but I’d like to see an aumont tester. There are three other mariner prospects on the teser list and I really dont think Aumont is the 4th best prospect the Ms have
Villanona
is on that list way too early. I’d rather have everyone on the poll right now(maybe not Revere) and most of the testers.
Flores
Is it too soon for a Wilmer Flores tester?
I think
Chris Carter should start getting some consideration here pretty soon. I’m looking at some of the hitters being considered as of late, and although they are all good prospects, Carter hasn’t even been mentioned. He’s put up a .900+ OPS his past two seasons at age appropriate levels, and finished 2nd in all of MiLB in HR’s this past season. I know the arguments about the league he played in, his K total, and his down BA from 2007 but aside from a very few guys ALL minor league hitters have flaws that need to be worked on. Were getting into a range on this list where the more “complete” hitters are already on-board, and its going to start coming down to guys who may profile more like Adam Dunn then Alex Rodriguez. I’m not saying Carter profiles like either, but I think people put too much into his CAL league play and the fact that he didn’t hit .290+ in 08’. If you actually dig deeper into Carter’s stats, the guy was a little unlucky and probably shoud have hit in the .275-.280 range last year. His power is legit, and he should be considered in the near future for this list.
+1 on that...
Hard to make an argument for moving Carter backward at this point. He’s the same guy as before, but he’s proven success at a higher level.
He should get on at about #40 or so.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I still dont get why
Villalona and Alvarez are so high.
Alvarez could have so many different reactions to MLB pitching that we’ve yet to have seen.
Especially Villalona. People rag on Tabata, Rowell, Martinez and others for poor performance but decide to put Villalona up there. It makes no sense to me.
ALSO
Villalona is a lard. And that’s only acceptable if you’re Miggy Cabrera or a relief pitcher.
+1 on Villanona
Not so much on Alvarez.
I don’t see how Villalona is a better prospect than F-Mart. He’s a first baseman who has not shown anything except age/level, and he’ll be 2 levels below F-Mart and 2 years younger. That, and Fernando has been much better at a higher level.
MLB pitching?
We haven’t even seen Alvarez against minor league pitching. He does have the rep, though, I suppose.
Giants Ballot Stuffing Meeting time changed
My fellow Giants fans, this is just a friendly reminder that tonight’s ballot-stuffing meeting time has been changed from 7 pm to 6 pm. Please don’t forget as this community prospect list is extremely important to the future of our prospects.
Haverecords, don’t forget the coffee this time.
LinceCain and pray for rain .... or for someone to take Zito off our hands.
OTHER
Schierholtz. Actually, I like Nate and Sandoval. I suppose they don’t qualify any more.
Hey, is Emmanual Buriss still eligible?
Sure, he hit like crap, but look at how young he was!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
