Michael Brantley
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/122310904655540.xml&coll=2
I guess the CC trade is complete as the Indians have aquired Michael Brantley. Now the Indians have aquired Matt Laporta, Brantley, Zach Jackson, and Rob Bryson. Excellent for both teams in my opinion, even with the Brew Crew down 2-0.
What are all of your opinions on Brantley. It says that the Indians had the choice between him and Taylor Green. Who would you have chosen?
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49 comments
Comments
For what the Indians need....
I think Green was the better candidate. Brantley’s value is tied up with the fact that he is a speedy CF. That’s the most secure position on the Indians. Sizemore is not moving anytime soon. So now, either Brantley moves to LF and loses a lot of his value and at bats or gets traded again…. or lingers in AAA for a few years unecessarilly.
And yes I own him in my keeper league and am pissed at this move. Bastards. All of them.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Oct 4, 2008 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'd offer to take him off your hands, but i've got my eyes set on a platoon partner for jordan schafer.
When they should be sacrifice bunting, they are buying effeminate designer jeans. When they should be fouling off pitches, they are masturbating. Always, they are masturbating.
by variablesdont on Oct 4, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why pass on Green?
The Indians possibly have the most secure CF situation in the league as well as one of the shakiest 3B situations in the bigs. However, when given the choice between 2 similarly ranked prospects at each of those positions, they elect to take the CF. Shapiro and co. really must see something in Brantley that translates to a corner
by jberms1 on Oct 4, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think people are getting caught up in the positions here. If you are getting corner OF production from your CF, couldn’t you easily tolerate CF production from a corner OF if it filled a position within the lineup well? I do agree that the Indians need a 3B, but Green would have been a year/level behind Hodges and wouldn’t have filled the need any quicker. Also, with the speculation that the Indians could be targeting a 2B in free agency while moving Cabrera to SS and Peralta to 3B, 3B could be filled long-term as well.
by Fundamentals on Oct 4, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FA target
i don’t know whether or not they’ll go after a 2B or a SS, but it has been widely reported in and out of cleveland that they view peralta as their long-term 3B solution….
if you had ken griffey, jr. of 1995 in center and were offered marquis grissom of 1995, would you worry about who would play center?! no…you’d work them both into the lineup and thank God that you had two offensive forces like that….it’s quite different than if you already had pudge rodriguez and you were offered bengie molina in a deal, neither of which has much offensive value off their position….but if you have two guys who play the same position, but have some positional flexibility and both bring positive offensive attributes, you work them in….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Oct 4, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brantley
The thing is that though Brantley’s statistical profile suggests he’s a good centerfielder, he’s not. Scouting reports over the past couple years have stated Brantley as below-average defensively in the outfield in terms of range, route running and arm strength and has played more games than he should at first base the past two years (I think I remember reading he’s played 21 games at first this year). Obviously, Brantley doesn’t hit for enough power (4 HRs) to overcome his defensive deficiency, so he really should provide no competition to Sizemore in the outfield. With Francisco, Choo, and Gutierrez already crowding up a young outfield, Brantley looks like his future (if it’s with Cleveland) is as a utility player. While I personally like Brantley because of his speed, ability to hit for average and incredible plate discipline, his unusual defensive profile makes him a big question mark. Green would have made more sense, considering Andy Marte is currently your best option at third.
by Grudyfan on Oct 5, 2008 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
marte
the way things are going, we’ll soon have the debate over who was the biggest prospect failure, andy laroche or andy marte…..
i do think, however, that shortstop is where they’ll look as peralta will likely slide over….
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Oct 5, 2008 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you compare Brantley to Grissom?
Grissom had some power. Brantley has slugged 370 in the minors. Slow down a little.
by aap212 on Oct 5, 2008 3:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Marquis Grissom was 22,
he had a .779 OPS in AA and a .733 OPS in AAA. This year, Brantley was 21 and had a a .791 OPS in AA. This certainly isn’t to argue that Brantley is a better player than Grissom, but simply to note that though Grissom did have more power than Brantley, Brantley has his advantages. The biggest of which are that he practically never strikes out and so far he seems to be able to hit for an above average BABIP. If he keeps that up, there is a reasonable chance that he could be a somewhat above average hitter with good speed. Maybe a poor man’s McCutchen?
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Oct 5, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where on earth?!
did you get that idea?!
if you believe yourself in posting that, you’d also have to assume i was comparing a young ken griffey, jr. to sizemore….no way! what i was saying was that two different styles of offense with solid defensive skills would find a way to be worked together if the opportunity was there, especially in the outfield….
i have enough words put into my mouth….i don’t need ridiculous comparisons thrown in there as well…
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Oct 5, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're missing my underlying point too...
Even if you’re not comparing all the exact players, Griffey was a superstar and Grissom was a borderline star for a few years. Sizemore is currently a superstar, and Brantley’s upside appears to be Luis Castillo as an outfielder. Brantley is the sort of guy who might get the bat knocked out of his hands in the majors because the worst consequence of throwing him a strike is a single. Sort of like what’s happened to Ellsbury so far, but Ellsbury showed more power in the minors and plays excellent CF defense. To go back to your Griffey/Grissom post, thanking god for two offensive forces doesn’t seem like quite the right response here.
by aap212 on Oct 5, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Ben Francisco is crowding anything. He’s a decent 4th outfielder who sits entirely too heavily on the fastball. If you look at his late-season numbers, you can see that as the league adjusted to him. Also, as much as I love Franklin Gutierrez, he is probably the same way only with better tools. I’d assume one of them would very likely be dealt this offseason.
by Fundamentals on Oct 5, 2008 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Mike Newman
baseballhandyman.blogspot.com
by Baseball Handyman on Oct 6, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense but you don’t seem to know much about the Indians if this is your assesment.
1. You don’t fill a need at the major league level with a prospect from A ball. I hope I don’t need to explain this point.
2. One of the Indian’s biggest need is a patient hitter who gets on base consistently. Someone who can be a true lead off hitter and allow Sizemore to move down in the order. Brantley fits that description to a tee, and could be on the major league roster in by 2010, maybe even mid to late 2009 for a taste of the bigs if he’s raking well.
3. The Indians have gone on record as saying that the PTBNL was a BIG part of the CC trade. With that player being Brantley, I highly doubt they envision him as their utility player/4th outfielder.
by world dictator on Oct 6, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're right...
I don’t pay any more attention to the Indians than I do to any other team. But…
1. I never said that Green could fill that role right away. But he will be in AA ball next season, which means with a normal growth curve, he might be ready for a ML shot at the end of the 2010 season. When you need a 3B and have one of the best CF in baseball, I think common sense would dictate that when you have the option of picking a 3B with upside or a CF with less upside, you take the 3B. Plus, there have been rumors that Peralta moves to 3B and that the Indians thought Green might make a good 2B, where he would have a plus bat.
2. You are right, that is one of their biggest needs. The only problem is that the patient hitter that Cleveland just got has no where to play. How many on-base, above average speed, no power having LF are there in baseball? LF is likely where LaPorta has to play (since 1B and DH are pretty full right now) with Choo in RF (with either Francisco or Gutierrez platooning with Choo and being the 4th OF). And if Sizemore was going to move down in the line-up, it would have been done by now. Like last season when they had one of the best lead-off hitters of our generation for half the year. Or this year when their biggest bat missed much of the season due to injury, VMart couldn’t get an extra base hit if he paid for it, and Garko was in a slump for two-thirds of the season. In other words, they needed pop in the middle of their line-up, but still Sizemore was the lead-off hitter. After awhile, we just have to accept the fact that Sizemore and Alfonso Soriano are going to hit lead-off… even if they should be 3-hitters.
3. What are they going to say? That the PTBNL was a throwaway player who they had no long term plans for? It’s media hype by the Cleveland spin doctors.
Now, none of us no for sure how all this will work out. We don’t know what the long term plans are for them. But as it stands right now, they just got a player who plays the same position as the best hitter on their team. So either he moves to LF and has one of the lowest OPSs in all of baseball, or he is a bat off the bench. Or he gets traded again. We will see.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Oct 6, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who, exactly is clogging up 1B? Garko? Brown? Aubrey? The Tribe has a bunch of blah players/prospects at 1B/LF who would all fall behind LaPorta and Brantley, IMO.
by Fundamentals on Oct 6, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess would be
Beau Mills, who should be ready by 2010 probably. His bat will play at one of LF/1B/DH, with 1B being the most likely. That doesn’t include VMart, who could see time there so that Shoppach’s bat is in the lineup if they keep him. I’ve got to say, it’s a nice problem to have for the Indians.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Oct 6, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget about nick weglarz.
there might be a hell of a lot of talent in the seaword.
When they should be sacrifice bunting, they are buying effeminate designer jeans. When they should be fouling off pitches, they are masturbating. Always, they are masturbating.
by variablesdont on Oct 6, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you need a 3B and have one of the best CF in baseball, I think common sense would dictate that when you have the option of picking a 3B with upside or a CF with less upside, you take the 3B.
1. I completely disagree. Even if Green would have been in Cleveland in 2011 at best. Thats THREE years from now. Who knows whats going to happen in three years? An A ball is simple way too far away to consider as filling a whole in a major league club right now.
2. Perelta is reportedly going to make the move to 3B next season. Wedge told him i his exit interview that the Indians were going to look for a 2B or a SS during the offseason to facilitate this trade. (With Cabrera moving to his natural position at SS if they sign a 2B)
3. Its arguable whether Brantley or Green have a better upside. We had this argument over at Lets Go Tribe and the majority tilted towards Brantley. I know personally, I’m not too enthused about Green myself. if Green had succesfully played more 2B in the minors that would certainly have added to his value, but the Tribe already got burned on their attempt to move Trevor Crowe to 2B from the outfield, so I doubt they’re eager to try that route again.
4. Beau Mills was drafted originally drafted as a 3B. Although he’s playing mosty first base right now, the Indians have gone on the record as saying they believe he might be able to stick at third because Mills has regained some of his strength from his surgically repaired throwing shoulder.
I’m sure the Indians kept that in mind when picking Brantley over Green. Not to mention we already have Wes Hodges in the system at AA who looks like he’ll turn into a solid major league player.
You are right, that is one of their biggest needs. The only problem is that the patient hitter that Cleveland just got has no where to play. How many on-base, above average speed, no power having LF are there in baseball? LF is likely where LaPorta has to play (since 1B and DH are pretty full right now) with Choo in RF (with either Francisco or Gutierrez platooning with Choo and being the 4th OF).
You see a logjam, i see a surplus of players we can use to our advantage. If this “nightmare” scenario were to come true and LaPorta, Gutz, Francisco, Choo, and Brantley were all putting up good numbers, then the Indians can simply use their surplus at outfield for trades. Thats exactly what the Brewers did when they trade LaPorta to the Indians. Prospect depth is never a bad thing.
But of course this all assumes that your premise is correct, which its not. While our current 1B Garko has put up some decent numbers, they’re nothing that the Indians would allow to block LaPorta from moving to first. The Indians could easily trade Garko and put LaPorta at 1st and Brantley in LF.
Unfortunately, chances are that not every one of the Indians prospects/young major league players is going to turn into major league starters
And if Sizemore was going to move down in the line-up, it would have been done by now. Like last season when they had one of the best lead-off hitters of our generation for half the year. Or this year when their biggest bat missed much of the season due to injury, VMart couldn’t get an extra base hit if he paid for it, and Garko was in a slump for two-thirds of the season. In other words, they needed pop in the middle of their line-up, but still Sizemore was the lead-off hitter.
1. Lofton did bat leadoff at times. But he was much more valuable for us in the 2 hole which was almost as big a hole for us as leadoff.
2. Jhonny Perelta? One of the best offensive SS in the game right now.? I’d say he has a considerable amount of pop in the middle of our lineup.
3.. I’’m not sure if you noticed, but the Indians had one of the most potent offenses in baseball this year. The Indians problem isn’t a lack of pop in the middle of the lineup, its was very streaky hitting. Sizemore wasn’t immune to this streaky hitting either.
Moreover, while Martinez was in his slump, primarly due to injury, Shoppach was raking quite well in the middle of the lineup.
4.. And finally, 3-hole hitters are great, but considering our options, it was more important to have people who can get on base at a high rate, Sizemore, and decent power/ high
But as it stands right now, they just got a player who plays the same position as the best hitter on their team. So either he moves to LF and has one of the lowest OPSs in all of baseball, or he is a bat off the bench. Or he gets traded again. We will see.
This seems to be the heart or your argument. But if you look at the Indians you’ll notice that their roster doesn’t align with the normal hitting/position stereotypes we associate with baseball.
They recieve most of their offensive production from atypical positions. (SS,C, CF). There’s no reason why they have to, or even should, but their high OBP guy in CF rather than LF. Its about place players where it helps your team, not where they “should” be. Look at Gutz who plays RF even though he’s arguably one of the , if not the best, CF in baseball right now.
by world dictator on Oct 6, 2008 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
Do you see the Indians trading either Shoppach or VMart? Because if not, Garko won’t be blocking anyone at 1B, VMart will be most likely. If you don’t deal one of the catchers, you almost have to play Victor at 1B to get Shoppach’s bat in the lineup.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Oct 7, 2008 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
[coughflukecough]
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2008 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
It couldn’t simply be that with his first extended playing time since 2005 he hit basically the same as he did in 2005 in AAA? Catchers develop later on average, and Shoppach has shown solid power since 2003. His walk rate went up a tick over the rest of his limit MLB time, but it’s in line with his minor league numbers.
I’m not so sure of him to say without a doubt he can continue to post an OPS of 860 or better, but I also don’t think that based on his minor league track record you can just write him off as easily as you’re doing. Well, actually I can see you doing that.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Oct 7, 2008 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The general consensus in the tribe blogs
is that Shoppach is very likely to be traded. The Indians have a couple of decent organizational backups that will hold the fort until Carlos Santana’s arrival if all goes according to plan. The tribe has holes to fill and Shoppach is a luxury. There is talk about a number of interested teams including the big players.
by sdtribefan on Oct 7, 2008 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It makes sense
But until he is moved, there is a real logjam at 1B like Boxcutter mentioned and world dictator dismissed. Like I said before, it’s a nice problem to have, but it’s a problem none the less. I probably would have rolled the dice on Green myself, but that’s just me.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Oct 7, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garko on the bench, Victor at 1st, Shoppach at C.
How is that a logjam?
I think we have different definitions of logjam. A logjam is when you have multiple players at one position both putting up good numbers which demand that their bat be put in the lineup.
A logjam is not when you have a warm body occupying a spot in the lineup/on the bench.
by world dictator on Oct 7, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
With LaPorta probably ready for LF next year, no room at the inn for Brantley. Then you’ve got Mills/Weglarz in the next couple of years. As long as Shoppach and VMart are both around, and all these talented bats(likely more valuable than Brantley’s bat) are still there, you’re ending up with a logjam, most likely at 1B. I suppose we could say LF logjam. They could try and hammer Mills into 3B I guess. I just don’t see why you’d take Brantley over Green, when Green at least plays a position where you don’t have as many options with tremendous bats.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Oct 7, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First, Neither LaPorta or Brantley will be in Cleveland next year, They’re both going to start the season in AAA.Given Cleveland’s history with promoting rookies, even with a hot spring training that fact almost guaranteed.
Second, You keep confusing a couple of years with present day. Neither Mills or Weglarz have even reached AA yet. Furthermore, under your definition of logjam we’d have an immediate logjam between Green and Wes Hodges
Third, your “worse case scenario” in where Mills, Brantley, Weglarz, LaPorta, Choo, Shoppach, and VMart all hit very well just results in the Indians having the ability to flip these prospects in a trade. I don’t see how this is a bad thing.
fourth, its debateable whether Green has an awesome bat. I like what Brantley has done, at a higher level and at a younger age, both compared to Green, and compared to the level he’s played at.
by world dictator on Oct 7, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
I’m not confusing anything of the sort. If you read what I wrote, I never said that it was today, every post I made about it pretty much states when I expect guys to be ready.
I never said it was a bad thing for the Indians to be in that situation, in fact I said it’s a nice problem to have. They’re lucky to have so many bats in the pipeline like that. As far as Mills and 3B, having the arm to play and the range/quickness etc to handle it are two different things. I don’t think I remember anyone thinking he could stick at 3B around the draft, but I could be wrong. The Indians can try him there, because his bat would probably be elite there vs. just very good in LF or at 1B.
Finally, I didn’t say that Green has an awesome bat. I said he plays a position where the Indians don’t have multiple guys with tremendous bats, like Brantley would be facing in LaPorta/Weglarz/Mills. Green would be competing with Hodges, and that’s about it. Beyond that, the Indians had said they thought Green could play 2B, another area where the Indians aren’t spilling over with elite hitters. Green’s bat would be good at 3B, but very good or better at 2B. To me, that’s worth more than another OF like Brantley.
We’re not going to agree on this, so I’m done at this point.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Oct 8, 2008 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’re not going to agree because even if I conceded every point you made, it doesn’t lead to selecting Green over Brantley. At the end of the day, if a player fits a skill set your organization, from the minors to the majors, is lacking at an extremely young age you have to go for him.
Your only argument of substance is “there’s nowhere to play him” which as I’ve shown isn’t a valid argument.
As far as Mills and 3B, having the arm to play and the range/quickness etc to handle it are two different things. I don’t think I remember anyone thinking he could stick at 3B around the draft, but I could be wrong.
The question about his ability to stay at 3B were mainly surrounding his arm strength not his range.
Finally, I didn’t say that Green has an awesome bat. I said he plays a position where the Indians don’t have multiple guys with tremendous bats, like Brantley would be facing in LaPorta/Weglarz/Mills.
You’re right, I misread your post. However, I don’t think competing against LaPorta, Weglarz, or Mills is an issue. Brantley has an entirely different skill set than either of those three players. If all four produce at the plate, Brantley probably has a leg up as far as unique value to the organization.
Green would be competing with Hodges, and that’s about it. Beyond that, the Indians had said they thought Green could play 2B, another area where the Indians aren’t spilling over with elite hitters. Green’s bat would be good at 3B, but very good or better at 2B.
The Indians thought Green might be able to play 2nd base. But like I said, Cleveland’s already been burned in the past by trying to switch some (Crowe) to 2nd. To be fair, past mistakes aren’t necessarily an argument against switching players positions all time, but I think there’s an equal, if not better, chance of Mills moving to 3rd as there is Green being able to play 2nd, so I think the point is moot.
At the end of the day Green and Brantley are both good prospects, however, given Brantley’s age, level of play, and the great numbers he’s put up at his current level, he’s definitely a better player, IMO.
by world dictator on Oct 8, 2008 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
They don’t need to hammer Mills into 3B considering that the position he was drafted at. They just moved mills to 1st because they were worried he would lose strength due to a shoulder surgery he had before being drafted. The indians have gone on the record as saying his arm is stronger than they thought and he definetely might play some third.
by world dictator on Oct 7, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What tribe blogs are you referring to? Because on Lets go Tribe, I think the consensus is that Martinez gets moved to first, at least part of the time.
by world dictator on Oct 7, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I enjoy an occasional read of LGT but do not post there
any more. Really miss my old buddy, indianfan. The Cleveland Indians Minor League Insider by Tony Lastoria is the defintive blog on the tribe organization IMO. So far above, just like this site but absent the teenybopper know it alls.
by sdtribefan on Oct 7, 2008 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do love me some Tony Lastoria.
by world dictator on Oct 7, 2008 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you assuming I have no justification?
Look at Shoppach’s line drive rates. They don’t even come close to supporting the BABIPs he’s put up, and he strikes out way, way too often to be decent if he doesn’t have a great BABIP.
He’s Jack Cust with worse plate discipline, worse power, and a worse line drive rate. You think he’s going to maintain an OPS over 800? Dream on.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2008 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s absolutely no chance VMart gets traded. He’s the best offensive catcher in baseball, and one of the best, and most consistent, bats in their lineups. The Indians would have to be overwhelmed with a trade in order to move him. Maybe Martinez/decent prospect for Peavy? But still highly unlikely.
I think trading Shoppach has a pretty good shot at happening. But more than likely, they’ll probably keep him and have him split time with VMart at catcher. I’m hoping trade though.
by world dictator on Oct 7, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummmmm
Mauer disagrees.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Oct 7, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
Brian McCann is at least clearing his throat. Russell Martin is in the corner lifting weights.
by aap212 on Oct 7, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget
Soto is wondering what all the hype about V Mart is about.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Oct 7, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
before 2008, I would have chosen VMart over Mauer pretty easily. Nothing against Mauer, but the few one-base points he had over VMart doesn’t make up for the extra 10 HR a season that VMart was averaging. Not to mention the doubles.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Oct 7, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW...
Best offensive catcher in baseball???
Before this past season, you could make that case. He definitely would have been in the top 5 (different preferences change the order, but I think most could agree on a Top 5). But after this past season, which I admit was an injury plagued one for him, I wouldn’t even put VMart in the Top 10. McCann is definitely better, Soto just put up a season that was as good as VMart’s career best, Ianetta had a very solid season, Mauer is great, but doesn’t have the power, Martin had a drop in power this year but is up there, Doumit had a great season for the Bucs, Benjie Molina is consistently solid, Napoli just had a great season, AJ Pierzynski is like Benjie Moline… always solid, Posada might be a borderline HOF candidate, and let’s not forget Shoppach who also just had a season comparable to VMart’s best ever in terms of SLG and OPS. I think it’s safe to say that Martinez wasn’t even the best catcher on his own team last year.
"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile
by Boxkutter on Oct 7, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, VMart isnt in the top 10? Umm wow the window goes your credibility.
The bases of your argument seems like a giant strawman. Martinez is injured/out of most of the year and you’re comparing his stats to players who’ve had one, maybe two, good years. Seems like faulty logic to me.
by world dictator on Oct 7, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW, I think your analysis is accurate.
I do, however, think the offensive firepower started mid-year. The first half they were a bust offensively. IMHO, the offense could really use a big RH run producer with power. They might get help from LaPorta some time next year but there has to be an upgrade at 3B. It will sure help the Indians if Martinez and Hafner return to form because I do not see the other power bats in the organization, Weglarz and Mills, making an impact before 2010/11.
by sdtribefan on Oct 7, 2008 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The offensive firepower did start midseason, but thats due to streaky hitting, not lack of a bat. I’d love to add another offensive power bat to the lineup, but I don’t consider that a need. In fact I think that provides more support to trade for a guy like Brantley that can consistently get on base.
Though I agree with the need to upgrade 3B. Like I said above, I think Perelta is going to move over to 3rd with Acab moving to SS and a 2B being signed.
by world dictator on Oct 7, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your points are good. I don't happen to agree but far be it for me to
say you are wrong. I believe there is some flexibility but I think they will go short term and look for a 1 year solution which is easier at 3B. I believe they are convinced Hodges is no more than a year away. No such answer exists in the organization for 2B. Peralta might find his way to 3B but i think it will be Carlos Rivero who moves him. However, if they find a top of the order 2B that makes sense, your the man in my eyes at least.
by sdtribefan on Oct 8, 2008 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally I’d rather keep Peralta at SS where his bat relative to his position makes him worth more. (Though of course his defensive range his limited.) However, its the word on the street saying that he’s likely to move to 3rd. In his exit interview with Wedge, they mentioned the move.
by world dictator on Oct 8, 2008 4:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trevor Crowe
It just dawned on me that the Indians have been working on this same sort of player in Trevor Crowe. Weak power, good on base skills, good speed. Crowe’s a little older and taken some lumps, but he just had a nice season in AA/AAA. What does his future hold?
by aap212 on Oct 5, 2008 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brantley is a better, young, more consistent version of Crowe. After his 2007 season a lot of people thought Crowe was done, but after destroying AA, and putting up solid numbers in AAA after a slow start Crowe still has a chance to be involved in the future of the Indians. Personally, I wouldn’t count on Crowe producing much at the major league level considering his lack of power and strikeout rate. He might be interesting trade bait however if he continues to put up good numbers.
by world dictator on Oct 8, 2008 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cleveland seems real pleased with Brantley
although Green would appear to suit organizational shortcomings better. Most of us have him ranked somewhere between 9-12 on the prospect list. Cleveland also seems to think he will develop 15-20 HR power, as unlikely as that seems to me. But he is young and does have plate discipline. He is likely to build some upper body strength over the next few years as he matures but that seems a stretch. I expect that his addition will mean some trades in Cleveland and Francisco/Crowe are likely candidates.
by sdtribefan on Oct 6, 2008 8:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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