Vote on awards-AL MVP

by kershaw_equals_stud on Oct 3, 2008 9:28 AM EDT Comment 70 comments

Ok, so I keep seeing everyone arguing about if CC should win a Cy Young and if Manny should be considered for MVP. Lets vote on a few of these issues... this is how it should be anyways, true baseball fans voting for the awards.... Since I can't put more than one poll in this post (at least I don't think I can) I will just put out 4 seperate posts (hope I don't tick everyone off). I'm really curious to see how the voting goes.

Thanks.

Poll

AL MVP

Dustin Pedroia

97 votes

Justin Morneau

75 votes

Josh Hamilton

48 votes

Carlos Quentin

55 votes

other

93 votes

368 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 70 comments

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Comments

Joe Mauer

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 10:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

1941 .406

by FrozenTed9 on Oct 3, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by drwmsu1 on Oct 3, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Who's world is it? It's yours.

by BlackOps on Oct 3, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only voting for guys in the playoffs...

Sorry

by alskor on Oct 3, 2008 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

AND If we're throwing it open to guys who didnt make the playoffs...

…lets go Arod or Sizemore.

What’s that? Morneau and Mauer were on a team in contention??

FINAL RECORDS:
NYY: 89-73
MIN: 88-75

by alskor on Oct 3, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

only problem:

the ballots were in before the decision was made whether the twins or white sox were in….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 3, 2008 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But

this thread wasnt started until today…?

I was talking about my vote, as well as making a point about the Twins candidates…

by alskor on Oct 3, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wonderful

new york closed their stadium this year….otherwise no one would have mentioned them most of the year….they weren’t in contention, regardless of what their record was…

the twins came back and made their division race tight…..to see what records mean in the postseason, just look at the yankees records from 2001-2007 and how many world championships it brought….or just look at the dodgers right now against the best record team in baseball….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 3, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wonderful indeed

The Yankees won MORE GAMES than the Twins.

The only difference between them was the division they were in. In fact, I daresay if you put the Yanks in the AL Central they would have won it… likely winning a couple more games at the least, as 19 games with the Sox and Rays would be replaced with the Twins and ChiSox…

Im not making the argument ARod should be in contention for MVP. Im saying that if we’re going to consider teams that didnt make the playoffs AND consequently teams that won >90 games than ARod has a much better case for MVP than Mauer OR Morneau. If we’re not going to consider teams that didnt make the playoffs than Id say Pedroia. I dont have a strong feeling one way or the other about whether the MVP must come from a playoff team or not, but I do feel strongly it shouldnt be Morneau. Id take Mauer over him easily. All things considered Id vote Pedroia, and frankly, I think he’s got this thing sewn up. Id be shocked if Pedroia didnt win it.

by alskor on Oct 4, 2008 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

pedroia

…is my vote as well, but you can’t make the record argument, you simply cannot….

the yankees went 40-32 in 2008 vs. the AL East, for a .556 winning percentage, and finished no worse than .500 vs. any divisional opponent

the yankees went 21-19 vs. the AL Central for a .525 winning percentage and was only above .500 with two teams in the division….

so the argument could be made that had the yankees played 72 games in the central and 40 games in the east that they would have had a lesser record, not better….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 4, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

But the bigger argument is that what the hell does the Yankees bad season have to do with Alex Rodriguez?? He had the same fine season he always does.

Basically the argument goes like this…Morneau deserves the MVP over Alex Rodrigue even though A-Rod has more offensive AND defensive value… the reason?? Of course…it’s because Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey etc had better seasons than Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy and Chien Ming Wang got hurt and Joba gor hurt. Thats A-Rod’s fault and Morneau besides being a good 1B is also a tremendous pitching coach.

Justin Morneau is a terrific player and I really like him but he is not even the best TWIn and he’s about the 10-15 best player in the AL.

by casejud on Oct 4, 2008 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

morneau vs. arod

arod had a tremendous year, but with runners on, with runners in scoring position, and especially “close and late”, morneau outplayed him….those are categories that i’d expect stellar performance from an mvp….

if i’m starting a team tomorrow, i take arod first, no question….but a gold-glove, nose-for-driving-in-a-run first baseman would certainly be on my list…and you’re right…i’d take the best defensive catcher in the AL who also happens to be a batting champion before morneau as well….but that doesn’t mean that morneau doesn’t deserve consideration as one of the best in the league…maybe even the best 1b in the league….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 4, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Twins Fan here...

I would ask where Mauer is, but I also would ask where Kevin Youklis is…

by SethSpeaks on Oct 3, 2008 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

sorry

i should have maybe added several more guys. i just added the few that i saw named the most.

by kershaw_equals_stud on Oct 3, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Other Mauer

Though I believe Morneau leads the league in RC

Remember: baseball guys... baseball...

by Metty5 on Oct 3, 2008 1:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No, I believe

IIRC, Grady Sizemore led the league in RC, and Pedroia was second. Mauer and Morneau were a little ways down.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Oct 3, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

According to Bill James.com

Pedroia – 107
Sizemore- 121
Mauer – 103
Morneau – 122

Remember: baseball guys... baseball...

by Metty5 on Oct 3, 2008 2:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

103 RC from a catcher > 122 RC from a 1B.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Oct 9, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sizemore?...anybody?

He doesn’t even make the poll?

Go Jays

by providence bruins on Oct 3, 2008 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He's right after

Mauer for me, and I thought about voting for him instead.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Oct 3, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No clear cut winner this year

Factoring in defense, I’d go:

Mauer
Sizemore
A-Rod
Pedroia
Hamilton

But one could make a good case for almost any order of those five candidates. Youkilis and Morneau would be just slightly behind that group IMO.

by BaseballBrain on Oct 3, 2008 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yup

Thats pretty close to mine. 3 4 and 5 could be switched around, with Quentin thrown in to the mix somewhere, but thats about what I’d say.

by SuperBean on Oct 3, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a bit of comparison

player a, second half: 35 rbi
player b, second half: 61 rbi

who meant more to their team down the stretch?

morneau’s home runs and average weren’t as high as hamilton’s all season, but all morneau did was drive in runs the whole second half as his team stormed from behind to lead their division on the season’s last day….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 3, 2008 7:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Uh...

Player A, second half: .296/.376/.498, plays CF
Player B, second half: .267/.350/.481, plays 1B

RBIs are stupid.

by DrunkIrish on Oct 3, 2008 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

He convinced me that Morneau’s teammates – specifically the guys batting in front of him – stepped it up in the second half… that’s about it.

by alskor on Oct 3, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually

the twins as a team at the break were at a major league team record pace for batting average with runners on base…..the team ended up coming nowhere near that, while morneau actually hit better with runners on in the second half than he did in the first….so the load for bringing guys in fell on morneau….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 3, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The guys batting in front of him got on base more often, though

hence more RBI opportunities

They had awful Carlos Gomez and his eye bleedingly bad sub-.300 OBP leading off the first half. The second half they went more with Span and Castilla, who were both hot. Hell, Span’s AVG (.294) ended up nearly the same as Gomez’s OBP (.296)!

God damn, Gomez is terrible. He cannot hit AT ALL right now, and its very questionable given his MiLB numbers whether he ever will. I cant believe people are still drooling over this Jason Tyner style player with speed. Id just as soon get excited about Joey Gathright. Of course, its not all Gomez’s fault. You have to point the finger at Gardenhire, who is an imbecile and lacks even a basic knowledge of lineup construction. The Twins SHOULD have won more than 88 games, really, if Gardenhire hadnt stayed with this rally killer atop the order for 3 months they might have… He got on base 29% of the time. Awful…I know he’s a great defender, but your glove damn well better be a couple standard deviations above the rest of the field to carry a bat like that.

by alskor on Oct 3, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His glove

Fortunately, it seems to be the best in the league. +33 plays by Dewan, which leads the league by quite a bit.

by Diggity Dino on Oct 4, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

rbi's are stupid

and so are home run derby’s, but what everyone seems to remember this year in final stats is that hamilton had one more rbi and that hamilton was nuts in the home run derby’s first round….morneau’s consistency beat him in the derby, and made up a 30 rbi differential in the second half to even make the rbi title a race….

and with ducks on the pond, i’d want morneau anyday, regardless of what position in the field he plays….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 3, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I heard something interesting the other day

It was this crazy idea that a baseball season actually had 2 halves in it. Absurd, I know.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Oct 3, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

IMHO, the fact that

Morneau might win his second MVP this year is positively absurd. Especially when Mauer was better than him both of the years he was in MVP contention, and just played fewer games because he’s a catcher.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Oct 3, 2008 9:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Mauer? Arod?

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Oct 3, 2008 11:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bueller?

by alskor on Oct 4, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Carlos Quentin

I’m NOT advocating him for MVP intelligent folks, don’t worry. Just wanted to comment that you cannot be considered for MVP if you fail to show up for the last month of the penant race because you injured youself after an at-bat…lol. I don’t care what the REASON was he didn’t show up but if you weren’t there you don’t have any value.

I’m not even really a big supporter of the idea that you have to be on a contender to be MVP because A) Its a team game B) Does anybody think that the Indians losing has ANYTHING to do with Grady Sizemore? If everybody on the Indians was played like Grady they would have won what, maybe120 games?

Missing the final month of a pennant race kind of disqualifies one don’t you think though?

I vote 1) Pedroia 2) Mauer 3) Sizemore 4) Hamilton 5) A-Rod

One last point. Nick markakis and Brian Roberts had better years than Quentin and Morneau as a whole. By excluding them you ALL…that means everyone here and all media… are saying that the games they played have NO VALUE. So is it okay for those players to not try in those games? I don’t think its okay and I think ALL big league contests have value. The Orioles losing has NOTHING to do with them. It is such a silly way that folks look at the MVP race.

by casejud on Oct 4, 2008 2:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

a few quick points

1. I think Quentin should make the ballot, just at the bottom. He did have a pretty impressive season.
2. I agree about the “contender” remark, with one caveat: if a player is clearly better than everyone else in the league (like Albert Pujols this year), he should win no matter the team. Pujols was on a contender, so it’s academic there, but superb performances should be honored.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 4, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

AN OFTEN OVERLOOKED, IMPORTANT ISSUE

The BBWAA asks that voting be based on: "The player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the team(s) on which the player played."

Of course, any way you phrase the question the answer comes back Pedroia, more or less… but I wanted to post this because I think people have a lot of misconceptions about the award.

The ballot also explicity states that Pitchers SHOULD be considered, fwiw. GFY, LaVelle Neal and George King – I’ll never forget you screwing Pedro out of the MVP. You phony a**holes:

In 1999, Martínez delivered one of the greatest pitching seasons of all time, finishing 23-4 with a 2.07 ERA and 313 strikeouts (earning the pitching Triple Crown), unanimously winning his second Cy Young Award (this time in the American League), and coming in second in the Most Valuable Player ballot.

The 1999 MVP result was controversial, as Martínez received the most first-place votes of any player (8 of 28), but was totally omitted from the ballot of two sportswriters, New York’s George King and Minneapolis’ LaVelle Neal. The two writers argued that pitchers were not sufficiently all-around players to be considered. (However, George King had given MVP votes to two pitchers just the season before: Rick Helling and David Wells; King was the only writer to cast a vote for Helling, who had gone 20-7 with a 4.41 ERA and 164 strikeouts.) MVP ballots have ten ranked slots, and sportswriters are traditionally asked to recuse themselves if they feel they cannot vote for a pitcher. “It really made us all look very dumb,” said Buster Olney, then a sportswriter for the New York Times. “People were operating under different rules. The question of eligibility is a very basic thing. People were determining eligibility for themselves.”

In the end, Pedro Martínez finished second to Texas Rangers catcher Iván Rodríguez, by a margin of 252 points to 239. Rodríguez had been included on all 28 ballots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Martinez

by alskor on Oct 4, 2008 2:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't...

like the idea of a pitcher winning the award, but at the same time if there is a good candidate, and in the absence of a good hitting candidate, I would absolutely vote for an SP to win the MVP (don’t think I could ever give it to an RP though).

And this year I think is one of those years. There were some good hitting seasons by many different hitters, but I never felt that any of them dominated over the course of the full season. So this year, I think the most dominating and valuable player in the league was Cliff Lee.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Oct 4, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so...

pitchers can be involved, but only starters….i think the previous post quoted buster olney’s thoughts on that…

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 4, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re-read what I wrote....

Did I say that only starters can be involved? No. I said that I don’t think I could ever give it to an RP. My personal opinion. But since you thought it was worth mentioning, we just had a closer demolish the single season Saves record. Why is no one talking about him as an MVP candidate? Closers have a lot less effect on the game than starters do. Three outs in the first inning are just as important as three outs in the 9th. They’ve just invented a stat for counting those last three. A closer has as much impact on the game as a middle reliever who comes in to pitch the 7th inning. Those guys just don’t get the hype as much.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Oct 4, 2008 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

personally

i’m probably biased….i have pitched in both roles, and i’d rather start any day over relieving…relieving is so much tougher physically and mentally over the course of a season….

that said, a starter positively influences maybe 25 games a season….a reliever positively influenes over 40 typically….that’s why i balk at someone saying a reliever isn’t as valuable as a starter…..

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 4, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see where he's going here

The idea is that a reliever (like a closer) may have an impact on a bunch of games, but a setup guy with a reasonable ERA would probably save 90% of those games. On the other hand, if I saw a reliever with close to 100 innings of sub 1.00 ball, I’d be inclined to vote for him for MVP- the example is a bit unreasonable, but it conveys my point. They’d have to be stellar.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 4, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

“The two writers argued that pitchers were not sufficiently all-around players to be considered.”

…but batters don’t pitch? What a flawed excuse.

Who's world is it? It's yours.

by BlackOps on Oct 6, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A good barometer....

if you had the first pick of players in a fantasy draft for 2008, but had gotten your hands on the book from Back To The Future 2 and had every players’ stats… who would you pick?

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Oct 4, 2008 12:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

in the AL?

probably A-Rod, though pedroia’s position is exceptionally shallow in the AL, so he’d be a top 3-4….in all honesty, before he got hurt, that question would have been a no-brainer ian kinsler….

nl and al combined, i’m not sure if there’s an AL player in the top 5…pujols, hanley ramirez, jose reyes, david wright, and chase utley would be top 5 for me, with lance berkman, chipper jones, and matt holliday all having cases for the argument as well for this season…

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 4, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In fact...

yahoo’s rankings at the end of the season:

1. Albert Pujols
2. David Wright
3. Roy Halladay
4. Manny Ramirez
5. Hanley Ramirez
6. Lance Berkman
7. C.C. Sabathia
8. Mariano Rivera
9. Matt Holliday
10. Cliff Lee
11. Jose Reyes
12. Josh Hamilton
13. Carlos Beltran
14. Alex Rodriguez
15. Tim Lincecum
16. Dustin Pedroia
17. Chase Utley
18. Mark Teixeira
19. Ryan Howard
20. Ryan Ludwick

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 4, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Settled

Your American League MVP … Roy Halladay. Good thing too, because he’s gonna get clobbered in the Cy race, and might even get shafted down to 3rd by KRod.

Rios is the next Juan Gonzales, thats right, I said it.

by KaoticKlown on Oct 5, 2008 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

argument

But see, that’s the kind of argument that gets “Stat-heads” on the bad side of main stream media, and rightfully so. I do think that stats matter and say a lot, but they don’t tell the whole story. It’s not just about who put up the best stats.

It’s not about Value of Replacement Player because it’s not a Silver Slugger for hitting. It’s about the player that contributed the most to his team over the course of the season. I like that that can be interpreted many different ways. If it wasn’t, just come up with yet another formula and the winner wins.

My vote –
1.) Mauer, 2.) Youklis, 3.) Morneau, 4.) Pedroia, 5.) Sizemore, and you could argue for any of them.

by SethSpeaks on Oct 4, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

I like your ballot. I’d put Quentin at about 6, and maybe switch Sizemore and Morneau.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 4, 2008 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If your MVP definition is simply

“the player that contributed the most to his team over the course of the season” how can Mauer be above Arod and Sizemore…? I dont see how that could be, unless the only criteria youre using is batting average, which you dont appear to be…

OTOH, if youre talking about who simply contributed the most, are you aware Pedroia had 653 ABs(726 PAs) this season to 536 (633) for Mauer? It amounted to THIRTY SEVEN (37) hits, even though their averages were very close. Im extremely incredulous that the relatively slight difference in their numbers makes up the ground for Mauer compared to the extra time Pedroia played. That’s no slight difference. Its like Pedroia played an extra MONTH Mauer didnt.

This same argument, that is: bulk of ABs/PAs for Pedroia compared to the other candidates, has been overlooked quite a bit. Its been discussed a great deal in Boston, as per the difference between Youk and Pedroia. Its a huge boost to Pedroia’s MVP case, IMHO. What’s more valuable? 536 ABs of .328/.413/.451 or 653 ABs of .326/.376/.493? Again, that’s a substantial difference in volume, and worth a great deal.

by alskor on Oct 4, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Dustin Pedroia wins an MVP and Derek Jeter doesn’t then baseball is obviously rigged.

by schmosterballs92 on Oct 4, 2008 8:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

nah

that’d be about the only way that jeter has ever been properly rated….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 5, 2008 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well there are some slight differences

1) Pedroia is actually an excellent defender, unlike Jeter.

2) Pedroia didnt play during the steroid inflated 90’s – where MVP awards regularly went to juiced up sluggers.

but mostly:

3) Pedroia had a great year in a year in which not too many guys had great years, and most of those that did werent on playoff teams.

Its really a fluky year, with not a lot of dramatic candidates… not to take anything away from Pedroia.

by alskor on Oct 5, 2008 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It it somewhat unfair

in that this season by Pedroia wouldnt rank among Jeter’s top 5… but its just a fluke, not indicative of any sort of bias.

by alskor on Oct 5, 2008 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

depends on if you add in pedroia’s superior defense….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 5, 2008 3:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

maybe top 3 then

look at 99, for instance – .349/.438/.552 , 24 HR. Ive always felt Jeter was an atrocious defender and Pedroia is a pretty great one, and still underrated – but that’s a MONSTER line from Jeter. Pedroia just couldnt make up that difference in defense. Jeter has put up a few seasons like that…

by alskor on Oct 5, 2008 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

top 3

i can live with that….jeter’s 99, jeter’s 06, and pedroia’s 08….what i like about pedroia’s season over some of those, however is that pedroia has worlds better plate discipline, rarely ever striking out, while jeter is consistently over 100/year…and pedroia on top of the rest of his numbers put up 54 doubles this year, a total that jeter’s never even come closer than 10 of…..

this pedroia kid….he’s pretty solid….and he isn’t overhyped for “clutch”

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 5, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Grady Sizemore

Sizemore is getting shockingly little attention here. Up the middle player, stellar offensive numbers in a breakout year. If the Indians as a team had remotely met expectations, he would win in a walk.

by aap212 on Oct 5, 2008 3:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not really... I searched

and he’s actually been mentioned 10 times – not including yours. Not to mention someone already posted a message lamenting his lack of recognition in this thread…

by alskor on Oct 5, 2008 3:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Still seems dopey

The top two AL players in VORP—A-Rod and Sizemore—aren’t in the vote. No kidding Other is getting so many votes.

by aap212 on Oct 5, 2008 4:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I voted "other"

Sizemore should win. He’s been the best player in the league this year.

BTW, how weird is it that a team which could have had THREE Cy/MVP players on its Opening Day roster (CC, Lee, Sizemore) didn’t make the playoffs?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 5, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

The Mets had a legit Cy Young candidate and at least two legit MVP candidates (Wright, Reyes, and Beltran), and they missed the playoffs too.

The funny thing about the Indians is that they had this year’s deserving Cy Young and MVP, and got them both for a Bartolo Colon rental.

by aap212 on Oct 5, 2008 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Carlos Beltran

..had a horrible year. He’s one of my favorite players, but this year was pretty bad for him..

by schmosterballs92 on Oct 5, 2008 9:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

what?!

he had the 13th best fantasy season in all of baseball this year….25-25, 110/110 runs/rbi, 131 OPS+, 92/96 bb/k…..anyone would take that from their center fielder….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 5, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Horrible year?

You gotta be kidding me. 284/376/500 with gold glove centerfield defense and 25 for 28 on stolen base attempts. How many players were more valuable than that this year? By what measure was he horrible this year?

by aap212 on Oct 6, 2008 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs