Vote on awards- NL MVP

by kershaw_equals_stud on Oct 3, 2008 9:25 AM EDT Comment 27 comments

Ok, so I keep seeing everyone arguing about if CC should win a Cy Young and if Manny should be considered for MVP. Lets vote on a few of these issues... this is how it should be anyways, true baseball fans voting for the awards.... Since I can't put more than one poll in this post (at least I don't think I can) I will just put out 4 seperate posts (hope I don't tick everyone off). I'm really curious to see how the voting goes.

Thanks.

Poll

NL MVP

Albert Pujols

254 votes

Manny Ramirez

35 votes

Lance Berkman

5 votes

Ryan Howard (replacing carlos delgado)

31 votes

Other

17 votes

342 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 27 comments

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Comments

I Abstain

I just want to go on record and say the debate about post season awards is the most ridiculous waste of time. I would like to challenge anyone to name the last 5 NL & AL MVP, Cy Young, Rookies of the Year, and Managers of the Year without looking it up on the Internet. If you can’t do that, then why do people worry so much about these awards? In fact, I would say that it is better that your favorite team’s players do NOT win postseason awards, particularly in the middle to small markets. When up for free agency, these players will demand more money and price themselves out of these smaller markets. Just a thought I have everytime someone asks in June who would be the NL MVP if the season ended right now. OK, I am done rambling…

by goose102977 on Oct 3, 2008 10:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

disagree

what’s great about baseball is arguing about who’s a better player or who had a better year. With all the stats and analysis available today, these arguments have vastly improved. Yes, whoever wins these awards is irrelevant, but it still can be a fun discussion.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 4, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

carlos delgado as the fourth?!

if manny can’t win it, delgado certainly cannot….he only showed up for half the season…..’

if you want to have a good debate, throw guys on there that should be there….hanley ramirez, chase utley, chipper jones, matt holliday, etc.

regardless, we have other posts where this discussion is ongoing, why make four more?!

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 3, 2008 12:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I knew

I’d get haters for posting these…. anyways i do see your point and i replaced delgado with the home run champ Howard.

by kershaw_equals_stud on Oct 3, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

re

I don’t see how it could be anyone other than Manny.

I think he is a rotten teamate and what he did to the Red Sox is terrible, but the Dodgers were dead in the water when he arrived and now they are on their way to making the WS. Without Manny the Dodgers would be home watching the Dbacks play the Cubbies. On top of that, his numbers he posted with the Dodgers were unreal.

To me that makes him the slam dunk Most valuable player

by ScottAZ on Oct 3, 2008 12:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

off the top of my head

2007-
MVP- Rollins, Rodriguez
Cy- Peavy, Sabathia
Rookies- Braun, Pedroia

2006-
MVP- Howard, Morneau
Cy- Webb, Santana
Rookies- Ramirez, Verlander

2005-
MVP-Pujols, Rodriguez
Cy- Carpenter, Colon
Rookies- Howard, Street

2004-
MVP- Bonds, Vlad
Cy- Clemens, Santana
Rookies- Bay, Crosby

2003-
MVP- Bonds, Rodriguez
Cy- Gangne, Halladay
Rookies- Berroa, Willis

There. 2003’s rookies took me a while but other than that it was pretty easy. I excluded Managers because really who cares about that? People do care about these other awards though and they do matter. As far as hoping your team’s players don’t win the awards: well that is just silly.

This whole idea about teams not being able to keep players because of their markets is a little over played as well. Sure some players leave because they want to play in NY or Boston or LA but most of these so called small market teams can’t keep their players because they have owners who won’t fork over the cash. These owners would rather the money go into their pockets and the pockets of their investors than on the field. Look at Minnesota. Is Minnesota a small market? The combined pop. of Minneapolis and St. Paul is 656,436. That is larger than Boston, Denver, Atlanta, Baltimore, St. Louis and a host of other cities none of which are considered small markets. So I ask you; should fans not care about these awards because they are the vicitms of rooting for small market teams or is it because these teams have owners who care more about lining their pockets than keeping their players?

I am Cameron Wood and this is my son and business partner CW Culberson.

by camwoody on Oct 3, 2008 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

twin cities

well-renowned night clubs, one of the top theaters in the country, phenomenal music venues, and lakes galore to compete for your free time is part of what hurts minnesota….the other part is the ridiculous stadium situation they’re in where they basically take home nothing from the gate after paying their rent to minneapolis to just play in the worst stadium in all of baseball….that all said, carl pohlad does line his pockets well….but he will give more leeway on a wise investment (remember that kirby puckett was once the highest paid player in all of baseball)….so far, the ones the twins have let go have underperformed their contracts, outside of santana, of course….the twins prefer to find the $2 million surprises rather than get stuck with the $12 million busts….nothing wrong with that….

i do think that you overplay the population bit, though….there is NOTHING within 6 hours of the twin cities to draw from….your list of markets as far as the entire metro area populations would go: atlanta (5.3 million), boston (4.5), twin cities (3.2), st. louis (2.8), baltimore (2.7), and denver (2.5)….and i’m guessing there aren’t a whole lot of farms within towns considered within the borders of the “metro area” (and hobby farms definitely do not count)…..not making excuses by any means…just making sure that correct facts are used in arguments….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 3, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I have little knowledge of the area outside of the city. However...

I do not accept the idea that night clubs, theaters, music venues and lakes should be used to explain why the Twins can’t hold on to players or should be considered a small market. Every single other baseball market has those things to contend with (except maybe Detroit… I kid).

As far as their stadium goes, again I will trust you knowledge.

I am Cameron Wood and this is my son and business partner CW Culberson.

by camwoody on Oct 3, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

who haven't they held onto that they wanted to?

that’s the interesting point….yes, they’ve moved guys like chuck knoblauch (though he was a management move more than a money move) and johan via trade….they’ve let guys like corey koskie, doug mientkiewicz, cristian guzman, shannon stewart, jacque jones, torii hunter, kyle lohse, eddie guardado, and latroy hawkins go…..who on that list has shown them they were wrong?!

the twins are a small market because of their owner and their stadium….they don’t draw as well because of the other options i mentioned…..in an area where 6-8 months of the year are not bearable to be outside for an afternoon, why would you want to sit INSIDE on a beautiful may/june/july/august day? you’d go to a lake….hopefully the new stadium fixes that…

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 3, 2008 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

thats stupid

really stupid. you’re saying that new york doesn’t have the “theatres and lakes” that St Paul has? and thats why so many people go to yankees games? HA

not only does new york have literally 1000x the entertainment value of the twin city region, for those still determined to go see a game theres a whole other team to split the crowd! and both teams STILL draw great. don’t make excuses for crap ownership, minnesota does a great job as far as on the field manaegment but the finance/stadium situation is a joke.

by robcast23 on Oct 6, 2008 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

one "stupid" difference

18.8 million people vs. 3.2 million people….in other words, new york should have 6 teams before they can start comparing themselves as far as available fan base to draw from….

and i’ve seen new york’s “lakes”….i think i’d rather swim in raw sewage than the ponds that are around the nyc metro….there is an ocean to swim at, true, but nothing quite like a well-taken-care-of fresh lake…

and for your “1000x the entertainment value”….i’m assuming you enjoy ball games and cheap dance clubs….because there, new york might make that number….but if you want class at all, not so much….

i LOVED the times i’ve visited NYC….but for most venues, i just found myself enjoying the comfort and cleanliness of the twin cities more….

i’d love to have an intelligent discourse on this if you’re wanting to discuss, but ranting off immediately that comments are stupid probably isn’t the best way to open up thoughtful banter….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 6, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I don't know what Robcast is getting at but...

back to your last question:

I think the Twins would have liked to have kept Santana and Hunter. They probably would have been a better team this year with them as well. Let us not forget also that it is not as if Pohland has broken the bank for any big time free agents either. His team could be much better but he holds them back.

At the end of the day I guess my point was that I don’t believe that Minnesota is a small market or should be felt sorry for because of their lack of revenue to keep players. Ownership ultimately decides where the money goes including where the profit sharing money goes. An owner’s willingness to pony up the cash to keep their stars or to attract new stars is really the main variable here (i.e. Florida, Oakland)

I am Cameron Wood and this is my son and business partner CW Culberson.

by camwoody on Oct 6, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

pohlad

has ponied up for certain guys….mauer, morneau, nathan, cuddyer….heck, he once made puckett the highest paid player in the history of the game…..but the stadium issue does hold back their available funds tremendously….interestingly enough, the four guys i mentioned initially were given extensions and raises very soon after state funding for the new stadium was announced….

however, much like in the case of frank viola years ago, pohlad wasn’t going to let one of the game’s best lefties walk away without getting something for him, so basically let bill smith know to either extend him last offseason or deal him….the twins badly wanted hunter and santana both back, true….and they made very good market-value offers to them (their final offer to santana before talks ended was more value overall than the mets deal), but much like the other guys mentioned, a lot of the contract value was tied up in very attainable incentives….hunter’s agent said no way to incentives….

i guess my headline to the comment that you’re responding to was a little misleading…they were certainly willing to pay certain guys to stay, but were not going to be a bargaining chip to be used to get more money from bigger pockets, so they often said good bye….and so far, santana’s the only one that’s really proven to be worth the money he got as he left….and that’s still very early to tell as the main stickler was that 5th year of the contract for the twins, and the mets gave him 6 guaranteed years, something that could come back to bite them as well…

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 6, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To each....

His own.

by Lunkwill Fook on Oct 6, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If only NY could get the classy theater of the Twin Cities

I mean, yeah it’s got homeless people doing Hamlet (that’s what Shakespeare in the park is, right? Though I never got why they name them after famous actors – like anybody would believe Denzel Washington is doing a play outside), but if only they’d also have plays in real inside theaters too. Or maybe if they could get an orchestra, or an opera house. And don’t even get me started about the lack of classy museums. I mean NY is okay, I guess, as long as you like third-rate culture – but if you want to see the best art, the best theater, the best music, it’s hard to match the class of the Twin Cities.

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Oct 8, 2008 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

note,

i never said new york didn’t have such places….but that the twin cities also do….where new york buries the twin cities (from what i found while there) is in hole-in-the-wall sports bars and skanky dance clubs….

i love going to new york, but the comment that two teams succeed in new york while one seems to be small-marketed in minnesota was extremely ignorant as nyc metro alone has six times as many people to draw from, let alone those outside of the metro to come into a game is nowhere near the same in minnesota…..i was unaware of all that the twin cities provided before i moved there, but those friends of mine that have made the effort to come north have all come away saying the same thing….feel free to attend the orpheum, orchestra hall, prince’s dance clubs, joe seltzer (sp?)’s sports bars, etc., and you’ll understand what i am talking about….

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

by biggentleben on Oct 8, 2008 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wright, Reyes, and Beltran?

I’m fine with leaving out Delgado, but how about three Mets that were better than him? All of them are excellent defenders and hitters, all of them had terrific years, and all of them are more valuable than Howard, easily. Of course, so is Utley, but no one ever seems to mention that.

by aap212 on Oct 3, 2008 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs