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Is anyone interested in doing a community list?

I was wondering if anyone is interested in doing a community list.  If so, let me know and I will start the polls.  Each poll will last approximately 1-2 days (unless their is an obvious winner i.e. 70% of the vote after 100 votes) and then we will move on.  Anybody who still qualifies as a prospect will be eligible.  If a substantial amount of people are interested, it would be helpful if I could get a few of the other regular posters on the site to help me run the polls.  Let me know if everyone is up to this challenge.

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hell yes

I’m not going to lie, the whole sock puppets, recounts, ballot stuffing thing was really annoying, but the list also brought up a lot of good conversation and perspective on overall community prospect opinion. I hope now that site traffic seems to have dwindled somewhat from when the lists were being made last year that there will be less interference. Even if not though, I’d rather have a slightly flawed list than no list at all.

The 2008 Rogelio Moret League Fantasy Baseball Champions!

by The Congo Hammer on Oct 15, 2008 12:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I wonder if the site traffic dwindled OR if many sock puppets were weeded out.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 16, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

It'd be FUN

Hey any chance we could do the list from the bottom up? Start with a whole lot of guys as the cantidates for the 100th prospects and then go forward? I know it is different but I think it would be interesting. It would make the list get MORE interesting to people as it goes along instead of less. I’ll participate either way but I just like to throw out new ideas.

by casejud on Oct 15, 2008 12:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Probably wouldn't work

The problem is that it is a lot easier to tell who the top prospects are then the guys around the 100 mark. There are probably 50 guys who could be realistic options for the 100th best prospect. That is the benefit with starting with the #1 prospect. It would be obvious who to put on for the first polls but if we start with the bottom who would we put on? By starting at #1 we can pretty much continue down the list with a ‘process of elimination’ routine. I do like your idea but it isn’t really feasible here.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plus, you’re going to get to #1 and have like 5 people who still need to be on the list.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 16, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

just go

1A,1B,1C,1D,1E or 1,0,-1,-2,-3 since theoretically they should be the 5 best prospects in the game.

by bushe on Oct 17, 2008 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

all for it

however, let’s start at overall prospect #1.

I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 15, 2008 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Absolutely

And yes, while the “suspense” of starting at the bottom would be fun, I think it would be virtually impossible to make it work.

In terms of ground rules, would this be a list to identify the best overall prospect (i.e., best tools / highest ceiling regardless of age, etc.) or would you be focusing on the best bet(s) to have an impact in 2009?

I think it might be cool to do both…would be interesting to see how different those lists turn out. Of course, it’s also extra work. I’m willing to help but travel constantly for work, so my availability to pitch in would be sporadic at best…

Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.

by Giants_Junkie on Oct 15, 2008 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Ground rules

I honestly think it depends on the prospect. While somebody like Martin Perez may have a higher ceiling then Cahill, I could not in good faith rank him higher then Cahill. Conversely, while Kila Ka’aihue is more likely to contrbute in 2009 then Angel Villalona, I don’t think anyone would really view him as a better prospect.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would...

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 15, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

i say let’s get started.

I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 15, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am planning on starting it Sunday....

I won’t be available this weekend so I won’t start it till Sunday. I will be missing some additional time due to another upcoming surgery so hopefully somebody can step up to help out.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

i can help.

do you want to do one per day?

I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 15, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds good

Pinstripes, if you are willing, we could run the first poll on Saturday/Sunday as the site tends to have less traffic on weekends. I would recommend 1 per day from Monday to Friday, and 1 per weekend. If there is an obvious winner then we can speed the process up and do 2 per day. For the first poll I would recommend guys like:

Price
Wieters
Rasmus
Heyward
Snider
Bumgarner
Laporta
Maybin
Cahill

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

looks good

are you going to let me know when you need me to fill in for the day or whatever?

I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 15, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thoughts

Why don’t you start it this weekend and I will take over Monday and Tuesday. We can rotate like that and if one of us knows he will not be around we can just notify the other person. To make it easier you can contact me at:

billybutlerfan@gmail.com

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

perfect. i'll start it on saturday morning

I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 15, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry, here's my e-mail as well

rmlamontagne@gmail.com

I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 15, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t stick your emails up in a public forum linked like that unless you want spammers to get hold of them.

by DeJay on Oct 16, 2008 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Im in and here is my thought on it:

Maybe for the polls you should include at least one major prospect from each team or at least till we get out of the 30’s. Be

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Oct 15, 2008 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think that’s necessary.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 16, 2008 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Some teams don’t have a guy who should even be ranked in the top 30.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 16, 2008 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't put them anywhere

YOU GUYS RANK THEM!!!! LOL!!! Actually, I would be suprised if Feliz didn’t rank highly judging by the things I have read on this site. I personally am not the biggest fan but that is irrelevant.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 16, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Overall

That’s how it has always been.

And to be honest, “Useful next year” lists tend to end up looking pretty wonky, and I don’t really find them very useful.

by aCone419 on Oct 15, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds good

And I think you have the right sense of how to do it, King Billy. My schedule won’t allow me to help with polling, though. Sorry.

by aap212 on Oct 15, 2008 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

awesome!

Lets get started

=)

Go Pirates!!!

by cool hand Charlie on Oct 15, 2008 3:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Another suggestion

Perhaps we should limit it to about top 50, so that the discussion doesn’t peter out and get boring.

by David Tokarz on Oct 15, 2008 3:43 PM EDT reply actions  

This is fine with me

What does everyone else think? Would you prefer a top 50 or top 100 list?

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

See how it's going along at 50

The last few times, discussion and voting really dropped off around 50, but it also produced some of the more interesting and informative discussions, since you’re getting into the prospects that people don’t know about quite as well.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Oct 15, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good idea

If the voting is way down we can decide whether or not to stop at 50. For now, lets just stick with 100.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

honestly, i’m just as interested if not more so with prospects 50 – 100. hopefully, we’ll be able to hold the interest level but i do agree with deamondeacons that in the past interest has waned after the top 50.

I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 15, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Help needed, apply within...

I am looking for some regular, respected site community members to help myself and pinstripes run the polls. Adding 1 or 2 more guys would help ensure that everything moves in a timely, concise manner. If you are interested please post and I will let you know ASAP.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Not sure

If I fall into the “respected” section, but I’m available on weekends and Mondays and Wednesdays for sure if need that helps any.

Also, how often are we going to run the testers for new guys to be added to the polls? I can’t remember how often it was done last time.

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Oct 15, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

I guess I meant range finders not testers. How do you want to cull new names to add to the poll as players get voted onto the list?

"So's your mom"-David Sloane

by gatling on Oct 15, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think what they did last year

Was that people would post comments in support of particular prospects who they thought should be mentioned but weren’t. If a few people were strongly in favor of one guy, he was then put in the poll, and if he got significant support (more than 5% or something), he stayed on the list. If he fell below 5%, then they waited a few more slots before testing him again. This system seemed simple and workable

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Oct 16, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are in gatling......

For testers, I would go either with:

A. A guy who is consistently written in under the “Other” option of the poll
B. Somebody who is ranked highly by another publication such as “Project Prospect”

If somebody receives extremely little support we will drop him for a few polls before giving him another tester.

If you have any questions my email is:

billybutlerfan@gmail.com

I will be away this weekend and I will miss another few days due to surgery but I try to check my email regularly.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I almost forgot

GO COLE HAMELS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can’t wait for the game tonight. Hamels vs. Bilz is what it’s all about.

I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 15, 2008 5:20 PM EDT reply actions  

King Billy

I am new to the site, so i’m probably not ‘respected’ yet by the powers that be, but follow prospects closely and am familiar with BA and BP, among other sites. If I can be of any assistance let me know.

In any event, i’ll be looking to contribute to the community lists, should be fun.

by RoyalsFan4Life on Oct 15, 2008 6:37 PM EDT reply actions  

RoyalsFan

I am glad you want to help out but unfortunately last year the polling process got derailed by some sock puppets who took command. This year I am going to stick with community members who have been around for a while. It isn’t anything personal, just trying to ensure the process goes as well as possible.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

No problem

I understand i have to earn my stripes on here. I will still participate in the community discussion threads, and if you need any help let me know.

by RoyalsFan4Life on Oct 15, 2008 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

go for it

i haven’t been around much recently, but i think the community list is the absolute best thing on this site every year—not only the end product (a ranked list of names), but the prospect discussion that it generates. i tried to do a bit too much last year, i think, and maybe got burned out. (i still think the rating as opposed to ranking idea has a lot of merit, though.)

by jpahk on Oct 15, 2008 8:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Obviously ballot stuffing is a problem

but there have been a lot of supporting studies that have shown that when informed people are surveryed on future predicitions, they tend to predict the “market” better then most standard predictive measures…. so there is def. some value, even if people feel the list doesnt look right, or there is something stupid going on.

Check out my baseball analysis blog FANalytics

by jbluestone on Oct 15, 2008 8:50 PM EDT reply actions  

question

Isn’t there a way we can lock the polls so each IP address can only vote once?

by David Tokarz on Oct 15, 2008 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doubtful

John would have to address that and I doubt he has the time or resources. The fact that everyone has to sign up to the site to vote should help.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's fair

If something goes wrong, we can always make the request, I suppose.

by David Tokarz on Oct 15, 2008 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

that seems a little crazy

Maybe instead of polling people would have to vote by posting? I know that it probably means less votes, but thats probably the best way to do it… ?

Check out my baseball analysis blog FANalytics

by jbluestone on Oct 15, 2008 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

That might work

Let’s try a couple go-through’s first… if there’s no ballot stuffing, great. If there is, we go to posting.

by David Tokarz on Oct 15, 2008 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

just tried

You need a separate email address and different screen names, plus you’re blocked out for a day.

by David Tokarz on Oct 15, 2008 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Always a good thing

to do this list….the discussion leads to a lot of good evaluation. It also pulls in the community participation like just about nothing else (save maybe a good Jed Lowrie debate).

One thing I’d suggest is to spot-sample some threads from the prior 2-3 years to see what’s been tried and has worked (or not). The “voting by posting” idea comes up a lot, and has even had some trial runs (last year, I think). Also, ideas for handling testers, dropping guys off the ballot, etc.

by siddfynch on Oct 15, 2008 11:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Voting by posting problem

My main problem with “voting by posting” is that it takes quite a bit of time for the people running the polls to evaluate. Also, people can just as easily create fake accounts and stuff the “voting by posting” polls as the “regular voting polls”. For now we will stick with the regular polls but if we have a large problem, we can always evaluate knew methods. I agree that checking what worked in past polls is a good idea to see where to move forward.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 15, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's with Joe Dimaggio

Did you know that he (Dimaggio) was really confused when he first heard that song? He was like, but I’m right here!

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Oct 16, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's not funny dude

I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 16, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is true

Oldprospects is referring to the song “Mrs. Robinson” by Simon and Garfunkle. A line in the song goes “Where have you gone Joe Dimaggio, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you, woo hoo hoo” or something along these lines. When Dimaggio heard it he was angered as he felt he was still a public figure and he actually considered suing. It had to be explained to him that it was just a reference to longing for ones past.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 16, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

ahh!

brain cramp. i remember that as well. i was thinking about the joltin’ joe dimaggio song. actually, i wasn’t thinking… :-)

I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 16, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you have an aim/aol email..

You can do:

[insert sn]@aim.com

or

[insert sn]@aol.com

Two different email addresses..

by schmosterballs92 on Oct 16, 2008 8:49 AM EDT reply actions  

Poll Vs. Comment

I’m just wondering if the process would not be better done by leaving comments or (+1) for the candidates.

I think you could monitor the ballot stuffing way better, and have more candidates to vote for and more informed voting.

 The thread would start with 10 or something posts with just the name, age,and stat line or something. Then anyone who wants to vote just posts a +1 as a reply for their choice.

Certainly this takes more time to get the results but I think it might be worthwhile.

Go Jays

by providence bruins on Oct 16, 2008 11:11 AM EDT reply actions  

geeze I'm a tool

this was already brought up and I missed it sorry

Go Jays

by providence bruins on Oct 16, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not the hugest fan of this idea

They tried it last time in response to the ballot stuffing and I thought it took away a lot of the fun. First of all, far fewer people participated, particularly those who didn’t want to start an account just to vote. Second, it became harder to see who was winning (you had to literally count all of the entries). Third, it seems like it would even easier to cheat, because there are less people voting (meaning all you have to do is have all of your identities post), and because how many people are even going to check to make sure the same people don’t vote multiple times? But fourthly, and most importantly, instead of all of the comments being actual comments making points and so forth, you have loads of +1s you have to go through. It’s harder to see when somebody actually says something, etc. And in exchange for all of these negatives, what do we get? A more “accurate” community prospect list? Eh.

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Oct 16, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 17, 2008 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

fourthly

yeah, I think “that instead of all of the comments being actual comments making points and so forth, you have loads of +1s” is probably a real good point.

agreed

Go Jays

by providence bruins on Oct 17, 2008 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok so it seems that its a lot harder to sign up random accounts

You need a seperate email address and you have to wait a day to post… so yes it can be done, but thats quite a pain in the ass…. if you care that much about who should be ranked ahead of whom then i dunno what to say.

May I also suggest that we do not do runoffs, i think this is where the ballot stuffing is most prone… If someone wins even its its close, lets just give it to that person and move on.

Again, the goal behind something like this is not to be scientific.. this isnt our personal list, this is a compilation of people who supposedly have at least a solid knowledge of prospects. Which in its own way has interesting aspects, and provides a different kind of list to that of the ones that we would each make individually or that the experts make.

SO i think if we take that attitude and dont cry everytime we think a certian prospect got ripped, it will be much more enjoyable.

Check out my baseball analysis blog FANalytics

by jbluestone on Oct 16, 2008 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I really think we're spending too much time worrying about this

Let’s just start the list and see what happens. If ballot-stuffing becomes a very significant problem, then I guess we’ll figure out some counter-measures, but considering what we’re discussing is not, in the grand scheme of things, particularly important, let’s just have fun with it.

www.loftylantern.com

by OldProspects on Oct 16, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

seriously. Lets get started.

Go Pirates!!!

by cool hand Charlie on Oct 16, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pinstripes will be starting this weekend.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 16, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unless there is a tie, there will be no runoffs. If one guy is a vote ahead, so be it.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift

by King Billy Royal on Oct 16, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

-1

First – thank you for organizing this.

I do disagree with not having run-offs. We have seen in previous years guys that were virtually tied, but then ended up slipping (in some cases several spots) when the people voting for another player got into the mix. We need to see where the “Ross Perot” votes end up going when that option isn’t available.

by slurve on Oct 19, 2008 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

question

if you sign up for a new account, you have to wait a day to post. do you also have to wait a day to vote in a poll? if not, then the waiting period doesn’t help (unless we go to the post-to-vote method.)

by jpahk on Oct 16, 2008 2:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I was just thinking about this...

This may postpone the lists for a while, but why not use John’s lists as a base? For example, for the #1 poll, use the 30 #1 team prospects. Then, for the one that was chosen, put in that team’s #2. You always have 30 options in the poll, but that way you’ve also got a layout to follow a bit as well.

Just as suggestion, I know the other way has worked in the past too.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Oct 17, 2008 12:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Not possible....

Been awhile since I created a poll, but I don’t think there are 30 slots available for options. Also, some teams don’t have a good #1 prospect, while others may have many. As a Mariner fan, I like a couple of their prospects, but none of them deserve to even sniff the top 20, so putting them on the list and leaving off some good options from other teams (Texas has at least four guys who belong ahead of Seattle’s top prospect) undermines the value of a master list.

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Oct 17, 2008 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also...

John likely won’t be done with his 30 lists until around the New Year I am guessing. That doesn’t give us enough time to run the community polls, even if each one only lasted one day (still will take over 3 months to do).

"My mom always taught me it's better to laugh at yourself than to laugh at others. She was so wrong. ;)" -Pedrophile

by Boxkutter on Oct 17, 2008 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

community poll starts tomorrow morning

i will set it up similar to what was done in the past. if we want to tweak it beyond that then so be it.

i will say that physically counting the votes in a non poll format doesn’t seem feasible. hopefully, there won’t be any issues.

thx!

I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?

by the pinstripes on Oct 17, 2008 9:42 AM EDT reply actions  

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