You're the GM! Texas Rangers Edition
The Rangers finished 79-83 this year. There were a lot of positive developments (Josh Hamilton, great year from Milton Bradley, Chris Davis, a thriving farm system. But you've got some problems to solve to get over .500 and into post-season contention.
What do you do about third base? How do you resolve the system logjams at catcher and first base? And what do you do about the pitching staff? Anyone you want to target in trades or on the free agent market?
Have at it. Try and get this team into the 85-90 win range without crippling the budget.
0 recs |
214 comments
Comments
Honestly, I wouldnt do anything
This team is not ready to win next year no matter what they spend. Stay out of the FA mess, dont overpay for anyone. Try to lock up Hamilton to a deal. Let Bradley walk. He is to much of a wild card to risk money on. Davis is your 1B. Move Young and his declining defense to 3b. Sign a nice def SS to a 2 year deal while Andrus gets ready… Teagarden catches….And trade Max, and Salty for more pitching or OFers… You can never have enough pitching prospects. But save the big ticket FA money for next year. With Holland, Felix, Hurley they have some nice arms now… give them time to develop….
by Maxima231 on Oct 10, 2008 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Follow-up question if I may
Won’t those young arms need someone to guide them? Lead them?
I hadn’t thought about Texas at all, but shouldn’t they go after a pitcher like Lowe? He could provide some stability at the top of staff, teach the young guys the ropes. Good stuff. They could compete in 2010, why wait to have a FA pitcher until then?
by FanBall on Oct 10, 2008 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good fit...
Lowe is a veteran starter and more importantly a GROUNDBALL pitcher. That is key for success in a park like Texas.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Oct 10, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting, didn't even think about the GBs
He would be a very good fit.
by FanBall on Oct 10, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he would be
if the Rangers SS didn’t have the range of a rosebush in a stiff wind
by mjh on Oct 23, 2008 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe
Hicks said he will not go after a high priced free agent pitcher. I live in Dallas and I’ve heard this mentioned several times on ESPN radio. I can’t say I disagree wth that approach but of all the available pitchers I think he’d be the best fit.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Oct 10, 2008 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
If I were the Rangers, I would stay out of the free agent market and focus on prospect development and locking up key components to longterm deals. I would look to trade Young and would let Bradley walk (I don’t think he comes close to matching this season). That would clear money for when the Rangers are near ready to compete and they could sign an impact player. The main thing is not to try to rush things and go for some ill-fated long shot playoff run.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Farnsworth: Start the ship, Leela. Let's just steal the damn radar dish and get back to our own time.
Fry: But- But won't that change history?
Farnsworth: Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa! Let's get the hell out of here already! Screw history!
Farnsworth: You mustn't interfere with the past! Don't do anything that affects anything. Unless it turns out you were supposed to do it. In which case, for the love of God don't not do it!
Fry: Got it.
Farnsworth: If for example you were to kill your grandfather, you'd cease to exist.
Fry: (gasps) But existing is basically all I do.
by parrot11 on Oct 10, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rangers
I try to work out a trade with the Ms for Beltre (perhaps Blalock and Arias or Duran?)
Resign Bradley for no more than 3/30
Trade Laird for someone of the stature of Ian Kennedy
Trade Salty for Bucholz or Masterson+
Try to trade David Murphy or Marlon Byrd for bullpen help or prospects (Daniel Duffy)
Trade Cat to anyone who will play him, he deserves better.
Sign some bullpen help, perhaps even Fransisco.
Then call it a year rolling this out next year
2B Ian Kinsler
SS Micheal Young
RF Josh Hamilton
DH Milton Bradley
1B Chris Davis
LF Nelson Cruz
3B Adrian Beltre
CF Marlon Byrd (Borbon if Byrd gets traded)
C Taylor Teagarden
Bench
C Max Ramirez
OF Brandon Boggs
INF Joaquin Arias/German Duran
SP
Kevin Millwood
Vicinte Padilla
Matt Harrison
Clay Bucholz (or Masterson)
Scott Feldman/Brandon McCarthy
with like 30 backups ready to go because we’ll need them all
Bullpen
probably still ugly
by bushe on Oct 10, 2008 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I assume
you are talking about the Royals Danny Duffy. He was a B prospect entering this year and had another dominating year. It would take a hell of a lot more than Byrd or Murphy to get him.
by gordonrules on Oct 10, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps
I was just throwing him out there as my favorite low level pitcher. I think we disagree as to the value of above average ML outfielders vs star A ball pitchers.
by bushe on Oct 10, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murphy and Byrd
are 4th outfielders at best. Not saying they wouldn’t be a small upgrade over what the Royals have now.
by gordonrules on Oct 10, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murph a 4th outfielder?
You are joking right? word out of Bean Town stated he was a fourth outfielder, but his half a season in 07 and his 08 season show he is a serviceable left fielder who can also play center and right. Not to mention, look at some of his batting stats this year. Not your typical 4th outfielder if you ask me.
And Im not a Byrd supporter, but you really can’t knock the guy. He was a hitting machine after the break and plays a very very solid outfield.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Oct 10, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was a hitting machine after coming off the DL
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 10, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Murphy is no 4th outfielder. In fact, he’s quite good. Had he not been injured you’d be looking at a 20-100-100 season or pretty darn close to it.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Oct 10, 2008 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True:
You’d also be looking at a .786 OPS corner outfielder without any relevant speed that hits lefties at .669 OPS clip.
Fans love Murphy because he is a local kid that went to Baylor that plays hard and is white and hit about .350 in the 2 months after the Gagne trade However, none of that makes him a good corner outfielder. Plus, everyone in TX is still searching for the next Rusty Greer and besides his name lacking the description of his hair color, this is as close as of they’ve come.
by rothe on Oct 11, 2008 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does him being white have to do with anything,
your actually being quite ignorant.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Oct 11, 2008 6:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
I am a white guy and I still think the hustling white guy player is always overvalued by the fans and by many members of the media.
by wolviex18 on Oct 11, 2008 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true.
If it wasn’t, people would be clamoring for Brandon Boggs, not David Murphy. Boggs is a better fielder and put up a very similar stat line despite breaking into MLB for the first time this year.
Also, see Greer, Rusty.
by rothe on Oct 11, 2008 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greer
Greer was actually a very good starter for a number of years (good OBPs). The guy I think epitomizes this trend is David Eckstien.
But for the most part i think you and I see eye to eye on this.
by wolviex18 on Oct 11, 2008 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't mean Greer wasn't good.
Sorry, just meant that Ranger fans will always be in search of the NEXT Rusty Greer.
by rothe on Oct 11, 2008 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would not touch Ian Kennedy for free. He is over rated 5th SP garbage...
Plus, in that ballpark he would get pummeled. And I doubt the Sox would deal Bucholz for Salty. I wouldnt if I was the Sox.
The basic plan should be to move Young to 3B (nobody will take the ridiculious contract with below ave def at SS), sign a short term SS till Andrus is ready, Davis can stay at 1B for now. When Smoak comes up Davis could be tried in LF or DHd, Teagarden Catches. But I think Ramirez, Laird and Salty all can go. I am not high on them anyway. if some other team likes them than deal them for A ball high ceiling arms….
But with the young system of good guys coming up it would be a HUGE mistake to go dumping a lot of money in anyone available…. Especially anyone who asks for more than 2 years, because by 2011 this team should be very very good….
by Maxima231 on Oct 10, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Young
I don’t see young moving for some scrap heap shortstop who is only here for a couple of years so I think a better way to improve the defense would be to pick up an undervalued 3B who is a defensive wizard for a year or two to put next to him. I’m also confused as to where you insinuate that I am wanting them to “dump a lot of money in anyone available”. 1 year of beltre and 3 years of Milt? Not that much really.
by bushe on Oct 10, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My only objection is that..
Your wasting your time dealing anyone of value for Adrian Beltre. If your not going to win, why trade away something useful for a one year guy who you have to pay 14M to. Seems useless to me. And Bradley shouldnt be touched. He is a psycho, and you cant honestly touch him long term can you? I dont see why giving him 3 years is worthwhile.. Again, its wasted money. If we have a 70 win team, why spend an additional 24M to get 4 extra wins? or whatever. Save all of your prospects and dont spend any money. If Peavy was available, maybe I would take a shot at him… but not for any short term guys. Just save your cash…
by Maxima231 on Oct 10, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reports out of Bean Town was that they like Salty,
If they want him it will take Clay, imo.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Oct 10, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure why, Buchholz is a vastly superior prospect
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 10, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bosox would be stupid to deal CLay for Salty...
I think we can all agree, Clay is the superior player/prospect
by Maxima231 on Oct 10, 2008 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why???
Show me ANY stat this year that would indicate that…
by rothe on Oct 10, 2008 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he is a Redsox prospect
Therefore he has to be better than any other prospect. At least acccording to ESPN or any Red Sox fan.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Oct 10, 2008 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Pitching prospect beats good catching prospect
by world dictator on Oct 10, 2008 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Show me a stat from this year...
that makes Buckholz a good prospect. AGAIN, from this year.
Granted, if I was the BoSox, I wouldn’t sell this low.
by rothe on Oct 11, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
134 IP, 133 Ks.
Where I come from, they call that “good.” And that’s not even mentioning how retarded it is to insist that all stats from before this year have no meaning.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 11, 2008 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the contrary,
I am saying that stats from this year have ALOT of meaning.
by rothe on Oct 11, 2008 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
but its cherry picking to try to limit the discussion to a 1 year profile of the player when it favors your side of the argument.
Obviously Buchholz took a hit this year, but his pro career as a whole paints a very promising picture.
by alskor on Oct 11, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he took a huge hit this year in value
as did salty
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 13, 2008 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2008 stats
I agree, 2008 stats do have ALOT of meaning. For example, Salty’s 33% K rate has meaning. As does his .253 average that was propped up by a .388 BABIP.
by jibs on Oct 12, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
give me a break!
Salty should garner Buchholz plus imo. Please!
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Oct 10, 2008 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm
I really dont see how anyone can grade Salty higher than Bucholz. Bucholz is a potential ace. Salty is a nice hitter who is not capable of being a catcher long term. If moved to 1B he would be an average hitter for the position. You Salty fans can crow all you want. But he wont be more than a .280 20 HR hitter IF he even reaches that in TX. He slugged .364 this year… ugh… in a great offensive park…
Clay could be an ace in 2 years….I know who I would take.
by Maxima231 on Oct 10, 2008 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SHOW ME
something from this year that screams ‘Potential Ace’!!
By the way, Salty is 22 or 23 (lazy) and if he spent the whole year in AAA would have been a top 20 prospect at worst (my guess)
by rothe on Oct 11, 2008 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minor league stats
Have you even looked at Buchholz stats in the minor leagues? MILB take a look. before you start mouthing off about him. Plus your asking for something from this year. What about Saltys stats from this year. Have you looked at those. Nothing about him screams great hitter. Plus the Sox will probably resign Varitek. He is the team captain and has been great for the pitchers. Piece of advice think before you type. Do a little research. That prevents you from looking like a fool.
by JFRIZZLE on Oct 11, 2008 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
Buckholz was pretty good in the minors this year. So was Saltalamacchia: http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jarrod%20Saltalamacchia&pos=C&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=457454
I would say that Salty’s MLB time was more impressive (or less, less impressive) than Buckholz.
They should accept nothing less than Bucky straightup. Also, I doubt the 45yr old catcher coming off an absolutely horrific year would stop a deal from happening for a 23yr old catcher.
Lastly, I heard the Rangers were going to name Salty captain this year in order to increase his value. They ended up not doing it because they realized what a huge load of northeastern bullshit it was.
by rothe on Oct 11, 2008 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rothe...
Fine here is the deal. Your alone on an island on this backing Salty over Clay.
If we did a poll, I bet Clay wins hands down. Maybe the rest of us are wrong. Maybe your drinking the Bush Kool Aid in Tex. Who knows. But i bet most of us on this blog will vote for Bucholz if you asked us which WE would rather have. If the Sox are dumb enough to trade for an average hitter who is a bad defensive catcher, we cant stop them… but I think its a mistake. Thats all I am saying. You might be right in the long run, but in my Dynasty league or in real life, I would never make that deal….
by Maxima231 on Oct 11, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
now that's not fair...
and you know it.
if you’re on an island, OBVIOUSLY you take the young lefthanded pitcher with ridiculous stuff and an impressive minor league track record. there isn’t a single catcher that if on an island you would take over the majority of left handed prospects.
however, you aren’t on an island. you are in boston, that desperately needs a catcher and has ‘expressed’ interest in obtaining a young, high ceiling catcher (namely salty). yes, you have tek, but clearly he has slipped and can’t be counted on to carry a full load. he may handle the pitching staff nicely, and certainly is a guy the sox will keep around in a mentor/cheerleader role, but they cannot rationally start the season with him as the #1 backstop.
furthermore, you are the sox whom are extraordinarily deep in the rotation, not only in the big leagues, but through the system. yes, a home grown, cheap starter like clay would be an excellent item to have. but it’s not like we’re talking a bottom teir catching prospect here. salty is still arguably one of the top catching prospects in the game.
while you have a good point, you need to understand that you aren’t on an island. you have 25(40) man rosters and it is YOUR job to make the best 25(40) man roster possible. are the red sox that much worse off with salty+(beckett, dice k, lester, masterson, bowden) long term then they are with ?+(beckett, dice k, lester, masterson, buchholz)?
i think everyone on this board could agree the difference would favor adding salty.
by bbdbrandon on Oct 12, 2008 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree with that at all
I think Buchholz plus a replacement level catcher is better than Salty plus whatever other pitchers the Sox can scare up. (And of course Boston is hardly constrained to going after replacement level players.)
Have you actually LOOKED at Saltalamacchia’s numbers? I’m not convinced the guy is even a league-average hitter, much less a potential +20 runs player like Buchholz.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I really like Salty and I think he’s undervalued right now cause of the way the Rangers mishandled him this year (why bring up a top catching prospect who is still working on several aspects of his game just so he can caddy for Gerald Laird and play once a week!? Seriously, WHY?), but if we could snag a potential horse like C-Buc for Salty I’d give JD the longest most awkward man-hug in the history of the world.
But there’s no way Bah-stin sells low on Buchholz. Theo knows what he’s doing.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 12, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buccholz and Bailey
I don’t think either of those guys are going cheap. Talent is talent.
The more interesting revelation will be what the catcher trade market is. It’s not Buccholz/Bailey territory, but maybe something around their equivalent a few levels lower.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 12, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think your 100% wrong on bailey
the guy has coachability issues, and seems to be what we all feared blake beavan would be, too cocky, etc
the kid has not nearly as much value as he had this time last year and his value has been trending down
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 13, 2008 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Where potential front-end starters are concerned, teams will value talent over coachability, to the point where talent is a bigger factor than coachability.
Offer a deal for Bailey based on his attitude and you’ll get hung up on, cause there’s a GM on the other line who still perceives his talent.
Needless to say, they don’t have to trade him.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 13, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he may have front end stuff
but look at his stats.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 15, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Theo
He does know what he’s doing, that’s why I think a guy like Salty would be high on his list. That’s why I also think he may be willing to ‘give up’ on one of his prized arms to get a player he likes.
Consider how few, young, major league ready, high ceiling catchers are available on the market. Consider where players TABBED as ‘high ceiling’ catchers go in the draft (Mauer, Weiters, Posey).
by bbdbrandon on Oct 12, 2008 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
have YOU LOOKED at Salty's numbers
let’s keep in mind that we are asserting that because of buchholz’s strikeout rate, he hasn’t lost much of his luster.
how about a 23 year old catcher who is in the top 35 among ALL major leaguers with at least 200 plate appearances in walk rate? a catcher, whom in limited action, posted an INCREDIBLE line drive rate. couple those two factors, and it’s very easy to believe his high strikeout rate is simply due to being a kid, much like buchholz’s high walk rate.
again, buchholz, at this point, needs to EARN his way into boston’s rotation. while that is a definite possibility, the sox are looking at having garbage behind the plate for the foreseeable future. while buchholz may not crack the sox rotation for another 3-5 years.
by bbdbrandon on Oct 12, 2008 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Translation
“In limited action” : “In a small sample”
LD rates vary wildly in small numbers of ABs. Combine the numbers from last year and this year and he is essentially average in those categories (and basically horrible at everything else).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
average ~ horrible
you do realize we are talking about a 23 year old, right? even still, a .730 OPS, while far from spectacular, is also far from ‘horrible’.
conversely, for the pitcher a year his senior, a 5.56 ERA is in fact ’horrible.
albeit, both of these figures do not tell the entire story. the first, that while salty may not be a 27% line drive hitter, he displayed a strong ability to take walks this season. and it shouldn’t come to a surprise to anyone to watch his k rate dive in 2009.
but again, if you are going to knock salty for what he has done thus far in his major league career, shouldn’t the same hold true for buchholz?
by bbdbrandon on Oct 12, 2008 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats ridiculious..
First off he is right handed. Secondly, I dont care who catches for Boston, I am not even a Sox fan, I dont give a shit. I still would NEVER deal a potential ace for a guy who IMO will struggle to ever play DECENT defense at C, let alone manage to hit .280 with 20 HR… I just dont think he will ever do that. If I am the Sox, I would maybe think about doing it for Teagarden and something.. but not for Salty and anything… I still say the majority of us amateur scouts here would prefer Clay…
by Maxima231 on Oct 12, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Struggle"
I don’t think anyone feels as though Salty would ‘struggle’ behind the plate as is. I think people feel as though Salty will ‘struggle’ to STAY behind the plate. There’s a big difference there.
Also keep in mind the same has been said about Mauer, I’d say he’s doing alright back there, wouldn’t you?
by bbdbrandon on Oct 12, 2008 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mauer v salty
only reason twins would move mauer from behind the plate is to preserve him so they can keep his bat in the lineup for several years. He’s a big catcher, but he has always been a plus defender.
Salty hasn’t shown he can stay behind the dish, throw at a decent rate, or handle a staff. And the trial at 1b failed as well, so basically he’s a guy that may hit, and could end up as a dh.
As far as Salty to the sox, seems like the main reason people bring that up is b/c Gammons mentioned it on t.v., that the Sox may target a young up and coming catcher and mentioned his name. .
by SoCalSoxFan on Oct 12, 2008 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Response
There have been other reports of the Sox interested in a catcher. With the pathetic catchers they tossed out there this season, the even worse free agent class, and absolutely nothing in the system, it is a fairly logical step. Watching the Sox in the playoffs, the bottom half of their lineup has been dreadfully overmatched. Varitek is one of the major culprits.
While improving an already stellar offensive team isn’t absolutely life and death, you have to think about WHERE the Sox can improve. RF, CF, and LF are set for the next couple of years. 1B, 2B, and DH are certainly covered. Lars could even move Youk to third and you have that covered as well. SS looks to be covered. That leaves catcher.
Again, it simply makes sense.
As for the comp, it was simply to say that many expected Mauer to have to move as he ‘filled out’. Mauer is a big kid and incredibly athletic (see football scholarships). The fact is, like Sabathia, a player of his size has never been able to do what he has done. The same holds true for Salty.
The major difference, however, is that Salty is not half the athlete that Mauer is-however, it is arguable that Mauer is in the top 2 or 3% of athletes in the entire major league. That aside, Salty appears to be about a league average defensive catcher, in and around Victor Martinez.
Everything I have read suggests that the knock on him defensively is that he isn’t as good as he is offensively. Which truly should not be a knock. If a player is adding 2-3 wins above bench offensively, its tough to imagine him losing that many defensively.
by bbdbrandon on Oct 12, 2008 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Show me a stat from 2006
that screams “potential all star catcher!!”
by alskor on Oct 11, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even better
Show me a stat from June of 2008 that screams "potential all star catcher!!"
by alskor on Oct 11, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about a stat from a Tuesday in January?
Accorinding to my numbers, neither guy has done a damn thing on ANY Tuesday in January. So there! :)
by thejd44 on Oct 12, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is Ian Kennedy garbage?
Yes, he was probably overrated leading into this year, but even this year he pitched sensationally in AAA as a 23 year old (72:17 K:BB in 69 IP, 2.35 ERA with a 2.96 FIP). He did get his ass kicked in the majors, but that was in only 39 innings. If we’re going to take that as gospel, then we might as well also take as Biblical fact that he’s as good as he was in 19 major league innings in 2007, not to mention his playoff performances. I’m not saying that he’s a star, but he still seems to me to be a solid bet to be a very good pitcher
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Oct 13, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His stuff is sucky
I understand a case can be made for him, but I disagree with any case that projects him as a “very good pitcher.”
Personally, I dont believe at all that he can be an effective major league pitcher. Strictly back the rotation filler, IMHO. He has the kind of stuff that works in AAA but just never fools MLB hitters consistently.
by alskor on Oct 13, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're willing to make that case
after a total of 58 innings? The guy’s 23 – he might end up sucking and he might not, but we can’t be sure yet
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Oct 13, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then I guess we cant be sure of anyone
His stuff sucks. I said I understand a case can be made that would make someone believe he is going to be a decent major leaguer, I just personally dont believe for a second that he will be. I never said we could all be sure yet – I said I am sure.
He just doesnt have an out pitch or anything that can consistently get out good major league hitters in my opinion. That’s not going to change.
by alskor on Oct 13, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just mentioning this over at Beyond the Boxscore
but it’s surprising how effective guys with zero stuff can be if they can just throw strikes and command their "fast"ball. Duchscherer, Slowey, Moyer… the precedent is out there.
The key, of course, is not walking anyone. Well, that and staying healthy, which Kennedy may not be.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 13, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im totally a believer in that
BUT in my opinion Slowey and Duchscherer have better stuff than Kennedy. Slowey’s stuff is underrated. Duch I typically dont see on lists of guys with poor stuff and great command. His stuff has been good every time Ive seen him. I know youre an A’s fan, so I’ll defer to you on that. Moyer is the freak of freaks. Not a good comp for anyone. He also has better control than Kennedy.
All those guys have better control or better stuff. Kennedy looks like he could have great control, but every time he came to the majors his stuff doesnt fool guys and he never gets ahead of hitters. Its too big a sample size to just be nerves at this point. Im done with him.
by alskor on Oct 14, 2008 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duke has good movement on his pitches and has 3 legitimate offerings
but his fastball is 86 on a good day…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 14, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thinking longterm...
For 2009:
Sign Hamilton to an extension.
Move Davis to LF
Keep Cruz.
Trade Murphy and Laird for low level prospects or bullpen help if available.
Bring in a 3b on a one year deal and let him compete with internal candidates like Duran and Metcalf.
Offer arbitration to Bradley. Try to sign him to a one or two year deal, but otherwise let him walk (even if he’s only Type B).
Pick up Blalock’s option and keep him at 1b.
Start Teagarden at catcher. Let Salty and Ramirez battle for the DH/backup Catcher/backup 1b spot. The loser waits at AAA.
Sign Derek Lowe. Let McCarthy, Feldman, Nippert, Hurley, Harrison, and Hunter battle for the last two rotation spots. Feldman or Nippert could end up in the pen, while the H’s could wait in AAA.
For 2010:
Promote Smoak to play 1b, Borbon to play CF, and Andrus to play SS.
Move Young to 3b
Let Millwood and Padilla walk as free agents (assuming Millwood doesn’t meet 180 innings)
Promote Feliz and Holland
by cstorm15 on Oct 10, 2008 11:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice
This team won’t compete seriously in 2010 with a rotation headed by Holland and Feliz though, and it’s realistic to target that year for contention. They’ll be more up for it with some 2009 ML exposure.
Blalock’s also an unknown quantity, but his failure at 1B merely paves Davis’s way back there (one of Boggs or even Borbon filling the OF shortage).
And if Milton’s back then DH is blocked, and that displaces Max and Saltalamacchia.
It’s a great plan for 3B though, and if Lowe signs cheap he’s a great fit for this staff even at his age.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 10, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe
He won’t sign “for cheap”. There will be a lot of interest in Lowe this offseason.
by jibs on Oct 10, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine
Even Millwood’s current contract would be too much for a pitcher at Lowe’s age.
Obviously it’s a silly market, and he’ll probably get that handed to him.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 10, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rotation
I may be optimistic, but I was hoping the 2010 rotation would be headed by three of the group of Lowe, McCarthy, Hurley, Harrison, and Hunter, with Feliz and Holland at the back. Of course, 2010 may be the big FA year depending on how the younger players progress in 2009. If the team decides that after 2009 that they’re one right handed slugger and one SP short of contending, then they make that jump.
But 2009 is all about determining whether the team can make that jump in 2010. The team needs to try Teagarden at catcher, give Salty or Max regular at bats (whether at catcher, DH, or 1b), give the SPs a chance to claim a spot for 2010, and try to develop bullpen arms internally. That said, I do think the team signs a SP this offseason with Millwood and Padilla soon to be free agents (especially if Daniels decides that this FA SP crop is better than next year’s). I used Lowe’s name, but there are a number of guys the team could target.
As for the 2009 offense, worse case scenario is that Bradley signs elsewhere and Blalock gets hurt or sucks. In which case, the team still has guys like Cruz, Salty, Max, Boggs, Mayberry, etc. In reality, the Rangers would never trade Murphy if Bradley leaves. On the other hand, if Blalock plays well and Bradley stays, then life is great. Bradley still won’t play everyday, and Salty could get plenty of at bats between catcher, DH, and 1b with Max at AAA. Plus, Blalock and Bradley could be dealt and open up those positions.
As an aside, next year’s trade deadline could be interesting, with Millwood, Padilla, Bradley, and Blalock on the block.
by cstorm15 on Oct 10, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton
I am not sure if I would give him an extension. They still own his rights for the next 4 years so there isn’t a sense of urgency. With his injury and drug history giving him a long term deal may not be the best idea.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Oct 10, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goals
(1) By 2010, upgrade top 2 in rotation.
(2) In 2009, add another power arm to the pen.
(3) Improve defense on left side of infield.
(4) Sign Kinsler and Hamilton to long-term deals
(5) Do (1)-(4) without trading Feliz, Holland, Main, or Perez.
What to do for 2009:
Goal (1)
Obviously, trade for Danks and his pitching coach.
Ask around about #1s on teams that need an injection of ML-ready talent: Cain, Peavy, Oswalt, Kazmir, Halladay, Harang?. Unlikely anything can happen here, but important to dig into it.
Try to trade for young top-2 pitcher, like Shields, or one that has potential to develop into a top-2 pitcher over the next 1-3 years, like Buchholz, Bonderman, Marcum?, Jonathan Sanchez, Volstad?
Hope Brandon McCarthy will stay healthy for the entire year to get some idea of what he can do.
Inquire about whether Sheets would take an incentive-loaded deal.
Goal (2)
Add Kerry Wood to Frank Francisco, CJ Wilson, Warner Madrigal, and Benoit. Don’t be afraid to give Brian Gordon a spot out of spring training if he outperforms Wright, Loe, Littleton, Mathis, and so on. Dream about trading for Rafael Perez.
Goal (3)
This is one that needs some finesse and is very fluid since Andrus is both the heir apparent and a top trade chip. Not a lot of immediate options are out there. The most interesting one I’ve heard is the suggestion by Adam Morris (lonestarball.com) to trade for JJ Hardy and move Young to 3B. An idea I could support, and Milwaukee will need a catcher and ML-ready arms to deal with CC and maybe Sheets moving on. I wouldn’t want the Rangers to do this if it took trade chips away from pursuit of a trade for a young top-2 guy, though.
According the Wash, the solution is to teach Young to shade hitters.
I think Young gets another year at SS, and 3B goes to Casey Blake for a year.
Goals (4) and (5) I cannot comment on.
Lineup
Kinsler, 2B
Young, SS
Byrd, LF
Hamilton, CF
Blalock, 1B/DH
Davis, 1B/DH
Cruz, RF
Blake, 3B
Teagarden, C
Others: Murphy OF, Boggs OF, Vazquez UIF, Ramirez C
Rotation
Millwood
Padilla
Shields
McCarthy
Harrison or Hurley
Pen: Wood (CL), CJ Wilson, Frank Francisco, Benoit, Madrigal, Gordon, AJ Murray
Look for an 82-86 win season out of that group.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on Oct 10, 2008 12:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why not deal Blalock
and see if Max Ramirez can handle the DH job? It seems like he can, from his ML stats, and even his 46 ABs in the majors weren’t a complete disaster. Considering they won’t be winning too many games in 2009, isn’t this a perfect chance to see what Ramirez can be? Even if he isn’t a future major league DH, within a year or two the Rangers will have Justin Smoak vying with Chris Davis for playing time, a point at which the DH spot might be filled anyway. I really don’t see what long-term advantage or short-term advantage you get from keeping Blalock, particularly if he can’t play 3B
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Oct 11, 2008 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Need time to establish value
Blalock missed a huge chunk of the season. Why sell low when Max has options toburn?
by laxtonto on Oct 11, 2008 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point
Though Blalock did about as well as you could expect in that half a year (not quite as well as he did the previous year, but what can you do). The fact of the matter is that no matter how well he plays in 2009, he will remain an injury risk, so I don’t really know why he would necessarily be less so in the middle of the year than he would be at the start of the year. Other teams will probably do their medical tests on him, and if they feel comfortable with that risk, they should pay relatively close to market value, but I see your point as well
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Oct 13, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Try not to do to much
Maybe look for a Blalock+ for Sanchez deal. Deal Laird and Salty. Try to sign Milton but as he will probably be too expensive let him walk. Let Metcalf (ouch) play 3rd until 2010 then shift MY there for Andrus.
by groundingout on Oct 10, 2008 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers
cannot possibly be playoff contenders in the 2009 season without a whole lotta luck.
My plan:
1. Deal Michael Young. He’s probably worth a bunch on the trade market, but the Rangers don’t need his .741 OPS.
2. DH Max Ramirez, take Blalock’s option then trade him for an OF or a reliever, Start Salty at first, Teagarden at C with Laird as a backup.
3. Sign Dan Wheeler or Juan Cruz to a 2 or 3 year deal
4. Sign Bobby Crosby or John McDonald to stopgap SS for Andrus for a couple of years
by METSMETSMETS on Oct 10, 2008 1:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Young and McDonald.
Young isn’t worth that much on the trade market. He has an albatross of a contract and everybody knows it. Also, John McDonald has one year left on his ontract.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Oct 10, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where to start
1 MY has very little value unless Texas pays a large portion of his contract
2. Salty will never see 1st. Play Davis or Ramierez at 1st before that. LAird will neverbe the back up. Hes
either the starter or dealt. Never trade Blalock for an OF. Texas has 5 guys fighting for PT as it is in
the OF
3. Relivers that aren’t premier closers tend to be a poor investment long term
4.Crosby at SS? You could get that bad of performance from pretty much anybody. Better of trading for
a all glove SS that will hit the same line instead of paying for Crosby.
by laxtonto on Oct 10, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bobby Crosby
Regarding Bobby Crosby, I was wondering if any of the A’s fans on this board (and I know there are a plethora of you) would be able to enlighten me as to how much of his ability the injuries have really sapped him of, if any. Is this a case of a player who just needs to stay healthy for an extended period, and the production will come or has he been permanently damaged by the injuries? I ask because I’ve always thought Crosby was a really great package, and it’d be a shame if he’s really done for. Any comments would be enlightening. Thanks.
by GuyinNY on Oct 10, 2008 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, the guy is just a complete idiot
He’s incapable of making adjustments at the plate, and he can’t correct his own hitting mechanics. His defense used to be good and has now declined. Maybe that’s from the injuries, I don’t know. But he was never a competent hitter. I’m fully convinced that his 2005 season was a pure fluke.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 11, 2008 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
His 2005 season wasn’t spectacular anyway.
I’ve never thought much of the guy, and he’s justifying that opinion. He was healthy this year, but he just can’t really hit. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that the A’s would be lucky to have somebody simply claim him off waivers and save the money for 2009. At this point, getting even a marginal prospect for him would be amazing. He just doesn’t bring anything to the table.
by thejd44 on Oct 12, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
B-Cros
He is a terrible hitter. He was never good to begin with. So the injuries haven’t taken that way. Defensively he is terrible. At best during his rookie year he was an average defensive player at best. He has no and never has had any range. The A’s will be looking for a new SS this year. If they can’t find a trade partner for cros which is unlikely they will keep him for another year. If Ellis comes back and they still have Cros there will be a competition at SS between Cros and Pennington. BCros can do better in the NL in a solid lineup. Hit him around 7 or 8 in a solid line in the NL and he will atleast be league average for a SS.
by JFRIZZLE on Oct 12, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My mistake
I’d forgotten about MY’s extension, and I don’t know why i said McDonald, scratch that and make it Craig Counsell
by METSMETSMETS on Oct 10, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Deal Michael Young?
Althoug I agree with that premise 110% I’m afraid there’d be a major uproar if that were to happen. People around these parts think he walks on water. Hell, Randy Galloway of ESPN radio fame calls him the 3rd best player in ALL of baseball. I’m afraid it’s a sentiment shared by many a Rangers fan.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Oct 10, 2008 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he smoking herb?
Michael Young isn’t even the third best player on his own team.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 11, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for everybody having a right to their opinion
But Randy Galloway is pretty clearly a shining example of why everybody shouldn’t be allowed to express their opinions.
by thejd44 on Oct 12, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Galloway
There are approximately 5 million people in the DFW area that know more about baseball.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Oct 12, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get the best possible pitcher with the catchers...
Feel out the market and get the best return possible, regardless of who you’ve gotta trade… There’s really not enough difference between the four to be too picky about who you’re keeping around…
Let Milton Bradley feel out the market, and if he doesn’t find the value he likes, then make your move… At most I’d probably go 3/30 with some incentives to raise the overall value… If Bradley is back, trade Blalock for whatever you can find. If he’s not, keep Blalock around and make him the full-time DH to keep him healthy and maybe raise his value at the plate towards the trading deadline…
Move Davis back across the diamond to first base permanently… Or, at least until Smoak forces his way into the bigs…
Lowe would be nice, but let’s be real… He’s not coming here… If you’re gonna dive into the FA pitching market, get a couple of relievers to fill out the bullpen… I’d probably stand pat on pitching besides making a trade or two bringing back someone like Masterson, Buchholz, Volstad, whoever…
Find a stop-gap guy at 3rd or SS, and make the Michael Young decision accordingly… Whether it’s signing Joe Crede or Adam Everett, or even trading for a long-term solution like JJ Hardy and making Andrus expendable, you’ve gotta figure something out with that situation. Who wants to go into next year with Travis Metcalf starting every day at 3B?
For the most part, just stay true to the plan… You’ve got the premier farm system in baseball, let that develop and see this thing through… They’re finally building this team the right way. Keep it up…
by N41D on Oct 10, 2008 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Trading potential
There is a decent chance that the Rangers could make out like bandits in trading a catcher since both the red sox and yankees are said to be looking for new young starting catchers this offseason.
by wolviex18 on Oct 11, 2008 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still say
Salty for Masterson and maybe a fringe prospect- that’s a great deal for both teams, especially because Masterson’s sinker would play amazingly in Texas.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2008 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3b problem
They should go after a guy like Bill Hall. The Brewers will likely a lot of that contract and it wouldn’t take very much to get him. He’s worth a shot and can be that one year stop-gap at the hot corner. You can hope you get the 05-06 version and not the one of the past two years.
by uwbadger on Oct 10, 2008 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
problem with that is ..
bill hall sucks.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Oct 10, 2008 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true enough
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Oct 11, 2008 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good one's are
But it’s not like the BPiA is Coors field circa the mid-90’s. It’s not some sort of magical serum. Ask Ben Brousard how that myth worked out him.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 11, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outlook for 09
Trade Laird and MaxRam for pitching, either SP or RP.
Activate Balocks option and use him as a DH/1st/3rd.
Mike Young will not move to third unless Elvis is ready so a one year stop gap has to be used for third base and not SS. Maybe a guy like Metcalf or Duran, internal option is the best way.
See what the market holds for a guy like Kinsler. No I don’t want to trade him, but imo, the only untouchable positional players on the ML roster should be Hammy, Teagarden, and Davis. Everyone else should be available if the price is right.
Davis is a keeper and even when the “move Davis for Smoak” talk comes around, it shouldn’t be a factor. Davis, so far, has proved that he can play an above average defense and can basically take the leather right off the ball. If he declines or gets injured then Smoak mans first and you find a spot for Davis.
PITCHING…PITCHING…PITCHING! Honestly what the hell can you say at this point. The coaching staff and the team cannot develop starters from within and when they do, they get traded. This team, actually, Nolan Ryan needs to fix this right freakin now! It is an embaressment to the teams fans, me being one. I cant stand that everyone you tell or talk to about the Rangers it always revolves around the Rangers not having pitching. It is pathetic and Nolan needs to fix it now to even make this team credible. Now onto what I do with this staff.
First off, Laird is traded to Cinnci for Homer Bailey.
Next, Hurley, Elvis, MaxRam, and Kasey Kiker traded to the Royals for Zack Greinke. That at least matches what the Royals would like. Two pitchers, one major league ready. 2 position prospects-one ML ready that is a catcher.
The SP is as follows: Millwood, Grienke, Padzilla, Harrison, Holland. Yes, I wrote Holland. Why you ask? It is very simple. This is the way the new pitching regime will work from my understanding. Pitchers won’t be coddled. If he is ready, then he starts his career in the majors. What was done with Hurley last spring will not be done with Holland. Hurley was ready, from what I recall and was dissapointed he was headed back to the minors and look how the rest of the year fared for him. That will not happen with Holland.
RP-find a couple cheap options and maybe a verteran by the name of Gagne. He was fantastic with the Rangers, but terrible for his last two teams. Your closer becomes by committee until someone steps up and takes it by the reigns.
You batting order and positions are as follows:
Kinsler-2nd
Young-SS
Cruz-RF
Hammy-C
Davis-1st
Blalock-DH
Murph-LF
Metcalf/Duran-3rd
Teagarden/Salty-C
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Oct 10, 2008 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Elvis
Is too good to trade for a guy that is only 2 years from free agency. Especially when the team probably wont be a title contender next year.
by wolviex18 on Oct 11, 2008 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’d like to see him play the position for an extended period of time. they bounced him around quite a bit this year. at any rate, i’d like to see the rangers play these kids and really see what they can do as there’s no chance of them making the playoffs until some of there top notch pitching prospects move into the rotation.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Oct 11, 2008 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wtf?
this was supposed to be under kinslerhomer’s post down below. sorry!
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Oct 11, 2008 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Closer
I think Franky Frank already took the reigns. Don’t know why everyone is so antsy to take it away from him when he did nothing but run with it once he got the job.
Laird for Homer Bailey you may as well ask them to throw in Cueto and Bruce.
If you’re going to trade a bunch of prospects for a good pitcher, you may as well try to win this year, which means fixing 3b. No way you can go through a season with an offensive black hole like Metcalf as your primary starter, good defense be damned.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 11, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense, Dirk,
should over rule the offense at 3rd because offensive my friend, isn’t a problem. It is coming from many other positions.
Is there a different pitcher or package you think we should be targeting?
And yes Dirk, I agree with the frankie frank statement.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Oct 11, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if defense is the problem
Then move Young to 3B and sign a glove to play SS. Would that not considerably upgrade both positions if your going for defense at 3B?
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Oct 11, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The offesne was good, but we really only had three good offensive players this year
and one of them (Milton) is prolly gonna leave.
One could argue his production will be replaced by Crush’s, and there’s some merit to that. But I think you have to look at each position in and of itself. If a guy like Metcalf is good defensively but a black hole on offense, how does that effect the overall +/- of the team? If the runs he saves with glove are less than the runs he loses us with the bat, then what’s the point?
If you’re willing to have a black hole on offense for the sake of defense, then sign a Cesar Izturis-type to play SS and move Face to 3b where he could be plus defensively. Then you get two plus defenders on the left side of the IF.
In terms of pitchers we should be targeting… think big or don’t even think about, imo. Your Grinky trade would hurt (I’d try to pull Hurley out… no sense in dealing him now when his value is low), but that’s the right kind of though. Grinky, Cain, Nolasco. Those are the types of names we should be targeting. Good young arms with major league experience and top of the rotation potential. But those guys are gonna cost. It’s a tough decision. This off season is gonna make or break the Boy Blunder.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 11, 2008 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the greinke trade is probably on the low side anyways WITH hurley
Moore is asking for the house, and he has no reason to lower his demands with no pressure to deal him at all. I do like Hurley though, and his fly ball tendencies would play A LOT better in KC than in Texas.
Actually, the deal is probably pretty close. I just don’t think Moore would consider it a “blow me away” offer like he’s going to want.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.
by doublestix on Oct 11, 2008 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah
I should have been more clear. I meant we should pull Hurley out and add someone else about his present value, since I think Hurley is someone whose present value doesn’t really match what I think his true value is.
Max, Andrus, Kiker and maybe Tommy Hunter (or someone roughly tantamount in terms of present value to Hurley) is probably a pretty fair deal, though you’re right that KC might not consider that enough for a studly young stud like the Grink. That seems in line with (and probably a little better, imo) what Oakland got for Haren.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 12, 2008 7:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I take serious exception to that statement
Throw in Derek Holland or Feliz and you can talk equal to the Haren package. Kiker and Hunter are rather lame as pitching chips go.
That said, I don’t think Grienke should be worth as much as Haren was, because he doesn’t have Haren’s freakish durability (mental and physical…) and he’s only under contract for 2 years. So as far as an actual fair trade goes, this might be one.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
First I think you’re way underrating Kiker.
But, that said, you’re probably right (I had forgotten about Chris Carter being in that deal, and he probably swings it the Haren deal’s favor), but I think if you add Feliz or Holland and you’re talking about a much, much better deal than the Haren deal since I regard both of them as being superior to any player in the Haren package and any player currently being talked about in this little imaginary Grink package we’re dreaming up.
But I think what this really comes down to is you like your guys and I like my guys.
Imagine that.
It’s almost like we’re biased towards our team’s players ;)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 12, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok here it goes
Right now the Rangers have 55.7 million tied up to next years roster. That is including Hank Blalock who has a 6 million option that Jon Daniels has said will likely be picked up. Tom Hicks has said the payroll won’t increase significantly from this years 67 million so the budget I am looking at is around 75 million.
I would start by locking Josh Hamilton up to a long term contract. He has 4 years left until free agency so I think a 5 year 25 million dollar extension with a 6th option year at 10 mil would be sufficient. Grady Sizemore got a 6 year 24 mil extension 2 years ago and factor in Hamiltons age makes the two very similar in terms of deals.
Then I would look into trading two of our catchers. Salty and Laird seem to be the most obvious choices. Cincy and Florida apparantly had interest in Laird at the deadline so a package with either could be possible. Young pitching is a must in return. I would target either Andrew Miller or Scott Olsen from Florida and Homer Bailey from Cincy in a trade.
Selling Salty would be selling low right now. But frankly I just don’t see a place on this team with him. Teagarden is the superior defensive catcher and held his own with the bat. Max’s bat has caught up to Salty and he didn’t have a good year this year. Boston supposedly likes him. I don’t know who we could get but they need a young catcher.
Resign Milton Bradley. I would start out with a 2/20 deal with plate appearance incentives that could take this deal to 4/46. He provided an attitude to the offense that we hadn’t seen in a long time. His right handed bat in the middle of the order was a huge help. His plate discipline seemed to wear off on a bunch of the other guys including the young guys which helped us draw alot of walks. With a full offseason to rehab his knee while his primary duty next year should be DH he could be able to play the field if needed and he was a plus defender before his injury. Remember he played a mere 6 moths after a serious knee injury which usually takes a full year to recover from.
Sign a veteran backup catcher. No names off the top of my head but a guy like Adam Melhuise is perfect.
My lineup going into next year would look something like this:
2B-Kinsler
SS-Young
RF-Hamilton
DH-Bradley
3B-Davis
1B-Blalock
CF-Byrd
LF-Murphy
C-Teagarden
Bench: Boggs, backup catcher, Duran, Catalanotto
SP: Millwood, Padilla, Guy we get back for Laird, McCarthy, Harrison
Pen: Nippert, Feldman, Frankie Francisco, CJ Wilson, Rupe, Madrigal, Benoit
Feldman and Nippert can both be used as spot starters. Our AAA rotation would consist of Hurley, Hunter, Mendoza, Mathis, Gabbard. All with options so if a guy goes down for a couple weeks we can bring them up. Our top two pitching prospects (Holland and Feliz) should start in AA and by June be pushing Mendoza, Gabbard, and Mathis out of the AAA rotation.
With all the arbitrations and with Bradley being the only real addition to the payroll you are probably looking at about a 73 million dollar payroll.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 10, 2008 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you think instead of Byrd in center,
we keep Hammy there and let cruz man right? I mean that’s definitely a way to reduce your payroll.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Oct 10, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had completely forgot about Cruz to be honest
Now that you mention it I think you switch Cruz for Boggs. The trio of Murphy/Byrd/Cruz should all be able to get plenty of playing time in the other two positions Hammy does not occupy whether that is CF or RF. On days Cruz plays Hammy plays CF others he plays RF. Sorry about forgetting Cruz.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Oct 10, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff Large Steve
Though having a Davis/Face left side of the IF is going to be absolutely brutal. You’d have to put all our pitchers on suicide watch.
Plus, no Scott Olsen. Just say no.
Can’t argue with much else.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 11, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is what i would do .....
C – Teagarden/Ramirez
1st – Salty/Ramirez
2nd – Kinsler
SS – Young
3b – Davis
LF – Murphy/Byrd
CF – Hamilon/Byrd
RF – Cruz/Byrd
DH – Salty/Ramirez/Byrd
SP – Padilla
SP – Millwood
SP – Feldman
SP – Hurley
SP – Harrison
RP – Madrigal
RP – Wilson
RP – Benoit
RP – Nippert
RP – Rupe
CL – Francisco
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
I heard Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young & 11 Tim Lincecums. Question is, how many Cole Hamels will he win?
by the pinstripes on Oct 10, 2008 10:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
have you seen Davis play third? He has a strong arm and thats it.
and Salty needs to be traded or go back to AAA.
by Kinslerhomer on Oct 11, 2008 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you...
The MaxRam/Teagarden is the best possible catching situation for the Rangers.
Nobody else seems to agree…
by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2008 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but I think Max is wasted as a backup, when he could bring a starting player in trade.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 13, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about platooning them as C/DH?
That way you might have a chance of them staying at catcher for more than 7 years
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Oct 13, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my thought
Use Teagarden 4 or 5 times a week, but start MaxRam at DH when he’s not catching.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 14, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Small moves, wait on the farm system
I’d make just a few moves here, while letting some of the younger guys get their feet wet in the bigs and letting the kids on the farm develop a bit more. Deal Gerald Laird for Edwin Encarnacion. Solves 3B for the Rangers and covers the Reds behind the plate. The Reds have enough guys in the minors that will can play 3B, and this would give Hairston a place to play if need be. I’m not 100% sure that a 1 for 1 deal would be even both ways, if you have to add a C+ prospect to it, it shouldn’t be too hard with the depth the Rangers farm system has.
That’s one catcher down, one to go. Ship Salty to Boston for Justin Masterson and Josh Reddick. Masterson steps into the rotation and is a nice fit for The Ballpark, generating groundballs and keeping them out of the seats. Reddick adds to a nice group of OF prospects, in case some don’t make it or a guy like Cruz flops. So that gives you Teagarden as your starter with Ramirez as the backup. I’d like to see him get about 300-350 AB’s between C/1B/DH.
I’d say pickup Blalock’s option and put him at DH. Let him build up some more value, give him a start a week at 3B, and hope to move him at the deadline. Davis/Kinsler/Young/Encarnacion is solid infield, even if Young is dropping off. Let Vazquez walk and keep Duran or Arias around on the bench.
Offer Bradley arbitration and let him go. Take the pick(s) and give RF to Nelson Cruz for this year. See if he can hit well enough to be a part of the future. Hamilton plays CF for now with Murphy in LF vs. RHP. I’d bring up Mayberry and let him play LF vs. lefties, he killed them in the minors this year, and should be at least solid against them. Let Byrd walk, he’s a nice luxury, but not one worth keeping around for $2M+ next year. Boggs is worth hanging onto as well for next year, since Mayberry can backup 1B too.
Tell Vincente Padilla that you are not picking up his option and he’s pitching for a contract. See if that motivates him to have a good year. Ryan has already threatened Millwood to report in shape next year, hopefully the thought of Nolan putting him in a headlock and beating his ass Ventura style will be enough to get Millwood straightened out. Put Masterson in the #3 spot, and let Harrison/Hurley/McCarthy battle for the last two spots, with Harrison and McCarthy hopefully winning to try and build some trade value. With all the arms that Texas has on the farm, Hurley could be used as a trade chip at the deadline this year or next.
Francisco starts out as the closer, with Wilson, Benoit, Nippert, Rupe, Feldman, and probably the loser of the #4/5 battle in the pen. With so many arms in the system, you can find a long term closer I think, so let give Frank a shot and see what happens. I also wonder if McCarthy or Nippert could be late inning options down the line.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Oct 10, 2008 10:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+2
I like the Laird/Edwin trade idea a lot.
by jibs on Oct 12, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Dunno if the Reds would bite, but I like the catcher setup.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2008 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Like I said, you may have to include a prospect, but I think Encarnacion is worth it. Both teams deal from a position of organizational strength to fill a weakness. And with Texas having such a loaded farm system, they could part with a guy from the back of their top 20 or so and it could be a big help for the Reds system.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Oct 13, 2008 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
Encarnacion for Laird and a live arm.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 14, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I know the Rangers have always needed pitching
And the A’s have always needed hitting…
I know trading within the division would be unpopular with everybody, but even if Chris Davis is mediocre at third base, he’d be an upgrade from… Jack Hannahan. He’s young and cheap and he’d take a lot, but the A’s have a whole bunch of pitching. A WHOLE bunch of pitching. Actually that’s basically all they have…
by NateHST on Oct 11, 2008 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The funny thing is, Hannahan is so much better on defense than Davis is
that I’m not convinced this would actually be much of an upgrade at all.
Not that I think Hannahan is a good player… Chris Davis just isn’t a third baseman. The A’s need to look elsewhere to fill that hole.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Davis has more than enough arm for 3b… but so did Ryan Braun.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 12, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Second draft...
With the state of the Rangers pitching staff, it’s fair to say that they are serious contenders for 2009. I’m the GM, I’m getting as much value for my vets as possible, and plan for the near and distant future.
Revised, Relooked, Recycled plan:
1. Trade Gerald Laird. It doesn’t really matter what for, but they can DH Max Ramirez, get Saltalamaccha in for 300 ABs vs. Righties and Teagarden for 300 ABs against lefties and righties
2. Take Hank Blalock’s option, trade him for a few lower level prospects.
3. Trade Vicente Padilla for prospects
4, Trade Neftali Feliz, David Murphy, CJ Wilson and Brandon Boggs to the Padres for Jake Peavy
5. Sign Juan Uribe to 1 year contract
Lineup:
1. Kinsler 2B
2. Byrd LF
3. Hamilton CF
4. Davis 1B
5. Cruz RF
6. Young 3B
7. Teagarden/Saltalamacchia C
8. Ramirez DH
9. Uribe
Rotation:
Peavy
Millwood
Hurley
Harrison
Feldman
Bullpen:
Francisco
McCarthy
Benoit
Rupe
Nippert
Wright
Madrigal
by METSMETSMETS on Oct 11, 2008 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's ridiculously little value for Jake Peavy
The guy is a perennial Cy Young candidate with an attractive contract. You’re going to be backing up the Brinks truck to land him. I’d say something like Feliz, Andrus, Teagarden, Murphy, Main, Hunter and another low-level pitching prospect. And that might not be enough.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Padres are shopping the guy...
I think they’re about to start a fire sale.
by METSMETSMETS on Oct 12, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
However
in retrospect they’d probably have to replace Boggs with Main or Mayberry
by METSMETSMETS on Oct 12, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Main or Mayberry?
Wow, those players have waaaaaaaaaay different values. Main is pushing the top 5 in a deep, deep system. Mayberry is lucky to be in the top 20 right now.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Oct 12, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's overrated as hell
You’re right that it would it take way more than Feliz and a pu-pu platter to land him, but I wouldn’t want to pay anywhere near market value for Peavy. His mechanics scare the buh-jesus out of me and his away from Petco splits aren’t as good as you’d like out of a guy you’d have to empty your farm system to get ahold of.
Whoever gets him is gonna have to pay through the nose and they’re gonna be sorry as hell about it in two years.
And your counter offer is a bit silly. That’s a ton of talent.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 12, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it's a bloody ton of talent
4 of the last 5 seasons he’s had an ERA+, park adjusted mind you, of over 130.
Compare him to Erik Bedard, Dan Haren, Johan Santana. Then keep in mind he has a good long-term contract. He’s going to fetch more in talent, or should, than any of those guys.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy has more of an injury history than Haren or Santana but your counter-offer
sounds close to the required value. I think it would be enough though. I don’t see anyone else topping that.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 13, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take a turn
I like the plan to deal Salty to Boston for Justin Masterson plus a minor leaguer. I’ll leave the 2nd name TBD.
Shop Laird for the best possible package of minor league talent.
Decline Blalock’s option. I thought about bringing him back for one more chance but something about insanity and trying the same damn thing over again kept rolling through my head.
Move Young to 3B.
Sign Cesar Izturis to play SS. This will probably take a 2 year/$8 million deal, maybe with a team option. I know, the bat isn’t pretty but the glove saves runs. If Andrus is ready in 2010 then Izturis becomes a well paid back-up. $4 million is excessive but it’s only for 1 year, plus it’s not like Kinsler’s going to give you a full season of play anyhow.
I’m not opposed to bringing back Bradley but not for more then 2 years guaranteed. If the market is willing to compensate him more then that than say good-bye. If Bradley leaves, I’d look into trying to buy low on Nick Swisher. Guillen wants more speed in the line-up and Dye and Quentin have the corner OF spots locked up. I’d offer Julio Borbon straight up for Swisher, see how much interest that buys me.
Hell, I’m probably looking at Swisher even if Bradley resigns. Byrd/Boggs/Cruz/Murphy can fight it out for the LF corner spot.
The rotation needs to pitch more innings and since the guy signing my paycheck wants a minimum 85 wins in 2009 he’s going to have to pony up the cash to buy a SP. Derek Lowe is older than I like but will probably be willing to sign for only 3 years guaranteed. I’m hoping for 2 good years.
The bullpen is still an issue. Maybe I can get Juan Cruz to come in and close for me!
Yeah, probably not.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Oct 11, 2008 8:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
see now thats a move i am actually interested in
juan cruz
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Oct 13, 2008 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was sarcasm on grover's part
See the Detroit Tigers thread.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 13, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok?
my point is that if cruz wanted to sign with the rangers id be happy…
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
"I'm more happy to be a Dallas Cowboy than when I got my first bike" - Roy Williams (WR)
by knockoutking on Oct 15, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the midst of a makeover
The Rangers are in the midst of an almost complete makeover, but declining attendance demands that they compete and improve even while running a virtual tryout camp next year.
I think the Rangers have a lot of deals to make over the next 1-2 years. But I woudn’t do too much this offseason. I would move Salty for Buchholz or Masterson and another piece if if could get it. Blalock showed enough down the stretch to convince me to pick up his option. I’d offer Bradley arbitration, assuming he wouldn’t take it unless he would take something like 1/12 with a vesting option, which I can’t imagine he would do.
So the rotation next year would start the season with Padilla, Millwood, Harrison, Masterson or Buchholz (unless the concensus with Bucholz is that he needs a bit more AAA time in which case I would give it) and one of Nippert, Feldman, McCarthy or Hurley.
If either or both of McCarthy or Hurley aren’t in the rotation that puts them in AAA.
Absent a total spring meltdown at least one of Nipert and Feldman, possibly both, should be in the bulpen in a long relief role if they aren’t starting. That would hopefully allow us to get rid of Wright who I don’t think much of. Rupe is shaky as well but I suppose you keep him until better options present themselves. Madrigal appears to have potential and can be in a middle relief role. FF is fine as closer, hopefully CJ can come back and do some set up and some lefty specialist work. It would be nice to acquire one more arm for the bullpen. If the Angels keep KRod and want Arredondo to set up, maybe an almost certainly disgrunted Scott Shields would be available. Otherwise I put off dealing with those holes in a systematic way at least until midseason.
That should put Blalock at dh, Davis at 1b, Kinsler at 2b. Young needs to move off ss, but not midseason and not for a journeyman, but, rather for Andrus in the beginning of 2010. Metcalf/Duran would do at 3b at least until midseason with Vazquez probably having priced himself out a utility role on the Rangers given budget contstraints.
Outfield is Hamilton as much as he can play, with Cruz, Murphy and Byrd sharing the other three spots. No strict platoon but some taking advantage of their rather significant platoon tendencies wouldn’t hurt anything. Boggs is either back to AAA or traded in a package, I just don’t see anything more than league average power combined with below par average hitting abilty and I don’t see Boggs as more than a fringe player.
Catching can split between Laird and Teagarden with Laird getting 60% or whatever is necessary so he doesn’t have a cow.
After that all you can do is wait. Wait for Borbon to be ready at which point you move one of the four not named Hamilton. Wait for 2010 and Andrus to move Young to 3b. Wait for Max Ramirez to get in a few more months of catching at AAA before trading Laird and bringing up Ramirez as second catcher/dh/pinch hitter. Relatedly, I don’t see anything that would prevent Ramirez from catching at the ML level, even if he isn’t going to be winning any gold gloves.
I’d trade Blalock at mid-season assuming he stayed moderately heatthy. Along with Laird and possibly one of Murphy or Byrd (Borbon should be close enough to ready that he could either come up or we coudl fill temporarily with Boggs or Mayberry) that should buy another pitching piece or two. We’ve got to be prepared to move pitchers like McCarthy, Hurley, Nippert, Feldman up if their minor league performance justifies and ditch them if we conclude they can’t help. If their performance justifies I’d get one, possibly both of Feliz or Holland up by August/September.
This should give the Rangers a chance to marginally improve next year while being ready to contend in a serious way in 2010 as Smoak (1b pushing Davis to dh?), Feliz, Holland, Borbon and Andrus all hit the roster. .
by Dalman on Oct 11, 2008 11:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe what I'm reading
I think you’re all nuts to turn the keys to the backstop over to Taylor Teagarden after 47 major league AB’s. Did anyone bother to see what he did (or, more accurately, didn’t do) in the minors this year? The dude hit .211 at two levels, and was called up to Arlington despite “hitting” a pathetic .133 in his last 30 AB’s with 11 K’s and one BB. Keep the guy you know can hit (Laird), and trade the prospect because those who are ignorant of J.R. Towles are doomed to repeat him.
What y’all need to do here is find some other suckers in Cincinnati or Boston as gullible as those on this board, and SELL HIGH. The Rangers should absolutely take Masterson or Buchholz and run if they can get either one of those guys for Teagarden. Keep Laird and let Salty and Ramirez fight it out for the backup job. The loser gets a bus ticket to Oklahoma (incidentally, my money’s on Mad Max to win that dogfight).
Sign Blalock to a one-year contract if you can, and keep Vasquez around as a backup. If Blalock gets a better deal elsewhere, sign Casey Blake and hope Smoak makes a rapid rise through the minor league system in time for 2010.
If you’re going to pay the big bucks to someone, pay them to Ryan Dempster. His low-HR rate (14 in 200 IP) should hold up in Texas. Seriously consider giving the 5th spot in the rotation to Feliz OR Holland (not both). For the bullpen sign any two of Dan Wheeler, Kerry Wood, Joe Beimel, or Will Ohman.
Get Peavy if you can, even tho it’s highly unlikely. The only untouchables are Feliz and Holland. If the price is Martin Perez, Teagarden, Ramirez, and Borbon, then pay it. Or maybe pay a slightly lower price to the Giants for Cain. Prospects grow on trees; staff aces do not.
Make Bradley your only real gamble and resign him, even to a 3-year contract if necessary. Teams need intense guys like him in the clubhouse to remind them what they’re playing for. And his bat isn’t too shabby either.
Murphy can’’t/won’t sustain his numbers over a full season. He’s been hitting waaay over his head (see Teagarden, Taylor), and is a 4th OF at best.
Lineup:
1. Kinsler 2B
2. Bradley DH
3. Blalock 1B
4. Hamilton LF
5. Davis 3B
6. Cruz RF
7. Young SS
8. Byrd CF
9. Laird C
BENCH
Boggs
Murphy
Vasquez
Metcalf
Ramirez (or Salty)
Rotation (barring a blockbuster trade):
Dempster
Padilla
Millwood
Harrison
Feliz or Holland
Bullpen:
Francisco
McCarthy
Benoit
Wheeler/Wood
Nippert
Beimel/Ohman
by TexStros on Oct 11, 2008 11:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1) Fix the defense first. Trade Marlon Byrd and Hank Blalock to the Dodgers for Hu Chin-lung, Kuo Hong-chih, and their interpreter. Also begin broadcasting in Chinese.
2) Trade Kevin Millwood and Max Ramirez to the Angels for Gary Matthews Jr. and Brandon Wood
3) Trade Jarrod Saltalamacchia to the Red Sox for Justin Masterson and Josh Reddick
4) Trade Vicente Padilla and Michael Young to the Giants for Barry Zito
5) Sign Derek Lowe to a 4 year $60M FA contract
6) Sign Milton Bradley to a 3 year $30M contract
7) Trade Gerald Laird to the Marlins for Scott Olsen
8) Sign Rick Peterson to be pitching coach. Sign to low cost FA deals any pitcher he wants.
9) Sign Vance Wilson as backup catcher
Result:
2B Kinsler
1B Davis
DH Bradley
RF Hamilton
LF Cruz
CF Matthews
C Teagarden
3B Wood
SS Hu
P1 Lowe
P2 Olsen
P3 Zito
P4 Masterson
P5 Hunter
RP Francisco
RP McCarthy
RHP Nippert
LHP Kuo
RHP Feldman
LHP Harrison
RHP Benoit
C – Wilson
IF – Arias
OF – Catalanotto
OF – Murphy
Watch out Angels!
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 6:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't care about Zito's no-trade clause. Peterson will convince him to come.
He’ll also convince him he’s Jamie Moyer
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
5) Sign Derek Lowe to a 4 year $60M FA contract
Signing a 36-year-old pitcher, even a pretty decent one, to a 4-year contract is just asking for trouble. Offer him a two-year deal at most; if he says no, then walk away.
The Rangers would be overpaying by a mile if they traded Marlon Byrd and Hank Blalock to the Dodgers for Hu Chin-lung and Kuo Hong-chih. Kuo might be a nice addition, but Hu? Good fielder, can’t hit. Do you really want to trade Blalock and Byrd for a reliever and a late-inning defensive replacement?
I also gotta agree with the other posters regarding Matthews, Wood, and Zito. Bleh.
Salty for Masterson AND Reddick? Let’s not get greedy. If the Red Sox agree to just Masterson, grab him and run before they change their minds. Catchers that can’t hit major league pitching don’t command the value to cherry-pick the best prospects off a team like the Red Sox.
I like Olsen. But give the Marlins Teagarden, Salty, or Ramirez instead. Keep Laird because you still don’t know what you have in Teagarden, Ramirez, and Salty.
Signing Peterson as pitching coach is obviously brilliant if it can be done.
Vance Wilson? You’re better off trading two of Salty, Ramirez, or Teagarden, and keeping whoever’s left over as your backup.
by TexStros on Oct 12, 2008 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
You get burned by Towles and then all of the sudden any catcher who hasn’t proven himself at the major league level becomes worthless, eh?
Tea, Salty and Max all have significantly more value than Laird.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 12, 2008 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Laird
Well, no, I’m actually basing that on hundreds of examples throughout baseball history of young players getting casual fans overly excited after performing extremely well over a few at-bats or innings pitched at the end of the season. Towles is but the latest example…I could give you a few more, but honestly you probably wouldn’t even know who I am talking about at this point because they are soon forgotten. Teagarden will probably be the next.
The fact is, Teagarden has done nothing above A-ball to support what he did in 50 at-bats in Texas this year. Sure, he hit .294 last year in Frisco in 100 AB’s, but then followed that up with an impressive .169 avg this year and an astonishing 23 K’s in 60 AB’s. Sounds like AA pitchers figured him out pretty quick, much as I expect major league pitchers to do too. He might have a short career ahead of him as a backup catcher, but I guarantee that he will not come anywhere near .319/.400/.809 again.
Laird is a mediocre hitter, but he has one of the best arms among catchers in baseball. He’s also a veteran who would be better suited to guiding a young pitching staff as Feliz and Holland arrive. I know silly things like defense don’t matter to the Rangers or their fans, but Laird’s value in that regard cannot be underestimated. It’s important to keep Laird around until at least mid-2009 when hopefully either Ramirez or Salty will be ready to take over full-time duties.
by TexStros on Oct 12, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, snap
There were so many passive agressive burns in there that I don’t even know where to start. I probably shouldn’t have started that off with an “LOL” since it obviously made you go on the offensive, but whatever.
Let me just skip the counter-burn part and say that I understand where you’re coming from. Prospects flame out all the time and “casual fans” do tend to get overly excited by small sample sizes by guys without the minor league track record to back it up… but I still think you’re undervaluing the Rangers trio of young catching prospects and overvaluing what Laird could bring back on the trade market.
And none of us “casual fans” (now calling me a casual fan really does deserve an LOL) really expect Tea to keep up anywhere near his production from the end of the season. He’s most likely a younger, cheaper, more TTO version of Laird: Solid defense with a little less BA and a few more walks and a bit more HR pop.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 12, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
casual fans
Sorry about the burns, but I just don’t understand how someone who has followed baseball closely for years can get this excited about a guy after 50 AB’s (and I wasn’t directing that at you, but the overall sentiment of the comments I’ve been reading on this board). No team in recent years just hands starting jobs over to prospects…in nearly all cases, teams at least make the pretense of starting out the season with the veteran and make the rookie(s) prove they deserve the everyday job. The Rays did it with Longoria, and the Brewers with Braun. I could understand it a little better if we were talking about 1B or LF, but why would you be so rash with an important position like catcher? And with a B-list prospect like Teagarden?
And if you accept Teagarden’s ceiling as a Gerald Laird with slightly more pop, then my personal preference would still be to keep the veteran, especially now, given the Rangers’ almost nonexistent history of developing pitching prospects. The Rangers are already loaded with pop; what they need is defense and someone to work with their pitchers, and I believe Laird is the best option at the current time.
by TexStros on Oct 12, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Teagarden should not be ‘given’ anything. Make him earn the job in spring training or by spending a few more months in the minors. If he tears the cover off the ball in the minors, then call him up and let him play. If not, let his stay in the minors and let him continue to develop.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Oct 12, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gerald Laird
has a career major league OPS of .689 after getting a .749 in the minors. Yes, he had one terrific half season in AAA in 2005, and one solid half year in the majors in 2006, but with the exception of those few months, has been a decidedly mediocre hitter. His value is basically that he is a very solid fielder and a mediocre (even for a catcher) hitter.
Now, considering nobody really likes any defense stat, it’s hard to compare players, but Teagarden is also considered to be a very good defensive player, so it seems like they can be considered roughly equal on that side of the game. Though he’s had injury problems, his offensive production has been significantly stronger in the minors (.899 OPS), and did quite well in his brief stint in the majors. He has shown well above-average power (in his last 2 years in the minors, in 620 ABs, has had 36 HRs, and a total of 74 XBH). He has shown an ability to take a lot of walks (over those same 2 years, 111 walks). He has serious problems as well of course – he strikes out too much, and sometimes has trouble getting a high batting average. That being said, his offensive peak is significantly higher than Laird’s.
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Oct 13, 2008 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
laird
I guess I’m not making my point. What I’m trying to say here is, the issue goes beyond their plate performance. If Laird and Teagarden are equal, then give me the veteran backstop to manage the young pitching prospects soon to arrive.
My second point is, you must be nuts to hand over a starting catching job to a guy after 50 AB’s. Look what happened to Teagarden at AA – yes, he did very well in his first taste of in 2007. However, when he repeated the level this year instead of building on his success, he flopped. Miserably. This to me is a clear indication of pitchers figuring his weaknesses and a failure on his part to adjust to their adjustments. If AA pitchers can do it, how long do you think it’ll be before major league pitchers do it? And if he can’t adjust to minor league pitching, what’s he going to do in Arlington?
Forget about Towles, let’s talk about J.D. Closser who’s probably a better example anyway. He hit .319/.364/.394 in 100 AB’s for Colorado in 2004. The Rockies handed him the job in 2005 based on that, and he failed. Miserably. You can bet that they’re pretty glad they kept Yorvit Torrealba around, who like Laird has a terrific arm but a sub-par bat. In fact, they’ve been trying to get rid of Yorvit for years, and it looks like only now (2009) he might finally be able to pass the tools of ignorance to Chris Iannetta who will be entering his 4th season.
Rangers have enough pop. They need defense and somebody who’s been around the league and knows how to pitch to some of the better hitters. Forget the flashy prospect, and stick to the boring veteran until you know what you have.
by TexStros on Oct 13, 2008 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're missing my point
The truth is that Laird and Teagarden are not equally good hitters – Teagarden is better. I’m not basing this on Teagarden’s 50 ABs – I’m basing it on the weight of their records. In 1945 minor league at bats, Gerald Laird hit 44 HRs. In 756 minor league ABs, Teagarden hit 43. In the minors, Laird hit .269/.346/.403. In the majors, he’s hit even worse. Over his career, his major league OPS+ has been a frankly terrible-even-for-a-catcher 79. He has just completed his age 28 season.
Now, Laird isn’t a bad player – he’s a good enough defensive player to have value. But, considering Teagarden is generally considered to be roughly as good a defensive player, I don’t understand why you would back keeping Laird for strictly defensive purposes. Teagarden, on the other hand, has serious offensive potential, hitting .267/.390/.509 in the minors. Now, if you want to argue that Laird is a significantly better defensive player, I’d listen to that argument. But if you think that they are roughly equal, then I don’t see how you can ignore Teagarden’s potential to not only be a decent defensive catcher, but to add a legitimate offensive threat to the lineup instead of what is now, frankly, a liability.
www.loftylantern.com
by OldProspects on Oct 13, 2008 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Beyond all of that, take into account that Laird will cost $2M+ in arbitration next year while Teagarden makes the league minimum and is under team control for 6 years, and I don’t know why you’d keep Laird around. He isn’t going to be happy splitting time, he wants to be an unquestioned starter. For that to happen, he needs to go somewhere in need of a catcher.
And on the subject of defense, Laird may be a good defender, but Teagarden was regarded as an excellent defender when drafted. He had TJ surgery to his non-throwing arm 2 years ago, so I really can’t imagine that effected him much, other than taking time away. As TexStros pointed out, the Rangers have tons of offense, so I’d gamble that Teagarden or Ramirez can combine enough hitting and defense to make a better option behind the plate than Laird.
And like you said, Teagarden has shown much more pop than Laird ever has. Teagarden isn’t going to compete for batting titles, but he’s a plus defender with 20+ HR pop. Those are hard to come by.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Oct 13, 2008 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TJS to his non-throwing arm?
Wow. That’s a new one. I’ve never even heard of that happening before.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 13, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was wrong
I went back and checked, it was his throwing arm. No clue why I thought it was the other way around.
"So's your mom"-David Sloane
by gatling on Oct 13, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way
That Lowe is going to accept a 2 year deal… he is one of the top 3 pitchers in the market, has never been to the DL and has pitched like 5 consecutvie 200ip seasons. Teams will be fighting for his services….
The whole idea behind free agency, is that the player holds the power, not the team, so the team cant get the player for what they want, its what they player wants…. unless of course there is no competition.
Check out my baseball analysis blog FANalytics
by jbluestone on Oct 12, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lowe
in that case, as i say, walk away. No matter his injury history, do not give a 36-year-old a 4-year contract. Apart from general health concerns of a pitcher approaching the age of 40, the typical performance of a pitcher in the non-PED era generally starts to decline around the mid-30’s. The idea here is not to be the sucker who pays for what he did the previous 4 years as he gradually loses his effectiveness in the next 4. Let some other team make that mistake.
If you want to give anyone a 4-year contract, then pay the premium to the 30-year-old Ryan Dempster.
by TexStros on Oct 12, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can Peterson convince Barry to retire?
Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?
by Blicks on Oct 13, 2008 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG
2) Trade Kevin Millwood and Max Ramirez to the Angels for Gary Matthews Jr. and Brandon Wood
4) Trade Vicente Padilla and Michael Young to the Giants for Barry Zito
I’d kill myself if either one of those horrible, horrible deals went down. Wow.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 12, 2008 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+2
What’s the goal of those trades? For the Rangers to accumulate the worst contracts in baseball?
Zito has negative value. If you asked for him right now you could have him. You dont have to trade things for him. Sarge Jr. is nearly as useless.
Neither of these guys has anything resembling on the field value and no team in their right mind would give up anything of value to acquire them. Hell, I think most GMs would give up a prospect to get rid of those two.
by alskor on Oct 12, 2008 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to admit, these look a bit lopsided in retrospect.
I do think the Rangers need to improve the defense and Matthews in CF and Wood at 3B do that, but Ramirez is probably too much to give up.
Regarding Zito, I think he’s got a chance at a Moyer type end of career, but you certainly shouldn’t give the Giants the benefit of that upside. The details on both need to be tweaked.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the negative value of Matthews's and Zito's contracts, I also believe that Millwood,
Padilla and Young have negative value in their contracts. I agree that the maybe giving up Ramirez is too much, but giving up those contracts is better than taking Matthews and Zito for nothing.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 13, 2008 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
I dont think anyone has the perception that Young’s contract is a particularly negative value. I personally think he’s badly overpaid, but at least he’s still good at baseball – unlike Zito or Matthews. He’s a SS (albeit a questionable defensive one) who hit .284/.339/.402 this year. A SS with a 96 OPS+ is not bad at all. In fact, if Young were a free agent he would likely command a deal in the range of the extension he received. Not quite as high perhaps, but compared to what Zito or Matthews would get…
Im sure the Rangers would love to rid themselves of Millwood and Padilla’s contracts, but they arent anywhere as bad players OR as bad contracts as Zito and Matthews. Milwood has two years at 11 and 12 mil left. He’s still a decent bet to be a league average pitcher. Padilla has two years at 12 and 12 mil – but he didnt pitch that poorly this year, either.
Even if you consider Young, Millwood and Padilla as bad contracts, they are still useful players. Zito is due 18.5, 18.5, 18.5, 19 and 20 mil going to 2013. NO ONE would take this guy. He is completely useless and has the worst contract in baseball. I guarantee no GM In baseball would even discuss the subject. Plus, he has a 7M BUYOUT for 2014 (or an 18M option). Worst contract EVER. Matthews is due 10, 11, and 12 mil.
These trades have the Rangers getting rid of marginally useful players signed to marginally poor contracts and in return get completely useless players signed to the worst contract you can imagine. Youre taking on money and gettting less useful players.
Honestly, even if Daniels thought these players were all useless and just wanted them off the roster he could release them, not take on 127 mill in terrible contracts… and not have to have crappy Barry Zito and Gary Matthews on his team. Who again, are not even worth playing or giving a rotation spot to, as opposed to the three players he’d be trading away.
by alskor on Oct 13, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millwood has to hit 180 IP this year else becomes a free agent.
Padilla’s 2010 is an option year.
Neither contract is an albatross; as much good young pitching currently approaches for Texas, veteran starters will ease the overall pitching transition. They’re good guys to have around…I could even see Padilla’s option getting picked up.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 13, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK you've convinced me the specifics are lopsided, but I still think the defense
is the main problem. Young may be an OK hitter for a SS, but his defense is not good enough. Neither is Hamilton in CF, nor Davis at 3B. THT says that the Rangers’ defense costs them six wins compared to an average defense.
Unless you believe Matthews and Wood are bad fielders (and they might be), I still think that something along those lines is going to do more to improve the Rangers than anything else for similar cost.
Getting too focused on the value of contracts misses the big picture. Improve the defense to at least average and the team all of a sudden is a contender.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 15, 2008 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense
Hamilton can move to RF with Byrd the regular CF and that will solve the outfield defense. Young needs to move to 3B where he will be a better defender then at SS due to a smaller range. Move Davis back to 1B where he belongs and try to get a slick fielding SS to win those 6 games. The problem is trying to determine the best SS option in FA or trade.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Oct 16, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do the Angels want Millwood and Ramirez?
The Angels are loaded with starters (Lackey, Saunders, Weaver, Santana) and still have Escobar coming back. Not to mention they are rumoured to be looking at Sabathia. I don’t know why they would be interested in Ramirez when they have Napoli at catcher and already have a good 1B/DH type in Kendry Morales in the minors waiting for a chance.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Oct 12, 2008 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the Angels aren't loaded with starters...
Those four are good, but they are also the only four starters they have of any consequence. Adenhart was just horrible this year and they have no other good high-minors pitching prospects. Escobar’s health is questionable at best; there’s no guarantee at all that he will return at remotely full effectiveness. If he pulls a Mulder and any of their other pitchers go down, that rotation suddenly looks pretty thin.
Not sure what the attractiveness of Morales is either. He looks pretty replacement level to me.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garland is an FA and Millwood gives you his innings while ridding them of Matthews's contract
Escobar may or may not be healthy enough to be in the rotation. Morales isn’t so great that he’s above getting some competition. Who’s in their minors better than Trumbo? That doesn’t sound like a reason not to trade for Ramirez.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
angels catching
They have a kid named Hank Conger who scouts generally rank as one of the top 10 catching prospects in baseball, higher than Ramirez. There are concerns whether he can stay healthy and/or behind the plate, although there are similar concerns about Ramirez in that latter department too.
They might be looking for an alternative to Mathis at backup, but I’m not sure Ramirez would fit the bill, or that they would be interested in giving up a whole lot to get him when they can just sign a veteran.
by TexStros on Oct 13, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking of Ramirez at 1B not backup C
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 13, 2008 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't think Ramirez can play 1b
Although 1b is generally considered the easier defensive position of course, in the case of Ramirez, I believe he impressed considerably more at catcher than at 1b in his major league stint. The general belief seems to be that while with some work he might be an adequate catcher, his arms are too short to be an adequate defensive 1b.
by Dalman on Oct 13, 2008 6:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The image of a short armed 1B made me laugh
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 13, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the short arm didn't come out until you at least got to third base
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 13, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mllwood gives you bad innings.....
Millwood just isn’t an effective pitcher anymore. Brandon Wood is still a very good SS prospect and will likely have enough power to play 3B if necessary. Any time a SS has the potential to hit 30 HR it is difficult to deal him.
Also, the rumor is that Sabathia is going to be targeted by the Angels as they have money and he wants to remain on the west coast. Go look at Morales numbers or John’s write up and you will see that the man can hit. In AAA he hit .341 with 15 hr in only 318 at bats. That combined with a .919 OPS leads me to believe he can be a decent 1B/DH option. He is only a year older then Ramirez and has performed better at higher levels.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Oct 13, 2008 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, if they get Sabathia they have no use for Millwood
But that’s far from a certainty.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 13, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
morales
keep in mind tho that those numbers were in Salt Lake City…in the PCL (a notorious hitter’s playground with small parks and thin air) AND that Morales was repeating the level so those numbers have to be taken with a few grains of salt. He hasn’t been able to even come close to duplicating that performance at the major league level in nearly 400 ab’s. Most scouts don’t think he’ll ever develop the power at this point to be an everyday 1B.
by TexStros on Oct 13, 2008 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
Kendry has raked at EVERY stop at AAA. It isn’t his fault he hasn’t be given a fair chance by Angels management.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Oct 13, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone in Salt Lake hits .341 with a .919 OPS
I exaggerate, but only slightly.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 13, 2008 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why exactly do the Dodgers want ANOTHER OF?
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Oct 12, 2008 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why wouldn't they?
You can never have too many OF’s!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Oct 12, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have Kemp, Ethier and who else?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andrew Jones and Juan Pierre
They have already commited 28 million to those two guys for next year. You don’t bring in another OF unless it is someone like Manny. A team cannot have 28 million in backup OFs for a full season.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Oct 12, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have those guys as backups than in the lineup
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rick Peterson: the Mike Martz of baseball?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sox won’t give Buckholtz for laird, and Lowe’s not going to Arlington. They might get Mike Bowden for Laird, tho; worth the shot.
by eddiebressoud on Oct 13, 2008 6:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not a chance.
Bowden is very highly regarded
by alskor on Oct 13, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buchholz is so much better than Bowden, it's not even funny...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 13, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
…and there is no way in hell the Sox would ever trade Buchholz for any Texas catcher, either.
I can understand why people would think they might do Bowden for Teagarden, but I dont see it. Maybe Salty, but I even doubt that. The Sox like Bowden a great deal.
by alskor on Oct 14, 2008 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Sox like Bowden a great deal.
Which is why he was on the table for Gagne last year.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 14, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have a link???
I never heard that and I seriously doubt its true. No way was he on the table for Gagne.
Murphy was only included because he was turning 26 and running out of options. Gabbard was the same age and neither was anywhere near as good a prospect as Bowden. Beltre was the prize in the deal, and he was nowhere near as highly regarded as Bowden at the time.
Bowden was behind only Buchholz, Ellsbury and Lowrie among Sox prospects at that point – and he was considered to be part of that big four. No way would the Sox have considered putting him in a Gagne trade. I dont know where you heard that, but its not even close to true. Perhaps it was speculation by some Texas writer before the deadline, but Im calling bulls*** on it.
by alskor on Oct 14, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=22880
Jim Callis: The Rangers could have had Bowden as part of the Eric Gagne trade.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 14, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blalock
I could see him drawing some interest from the Yankees, who need a 1B and who happen to have a surplus of intriguing bullpen arms. I could see the Rangers dealing Blalock for David Robertson and a young arm not on the 40. (Who they hell is Wilkins de la Rosa and where did those sick numbers come from?)
by clark on Oct 13, 2008 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yankees 1B
They won’t need Blalock once Boras takes their call about Teixeira.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Oct 13, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have seen the debate on LSB
but I still doubt the Yankees are able to pull CC AND Tex. It is very rare that the two best FAs on the market end up with the same team.
by clark on Oct 13, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially...
when that team finished in third place the year before.
by alskor on Oct 13, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see the Sox moving Buckholtz, not with the issues they’re having with Beckett, et al. Teagarden’s almost a perfect fit, and I can see Bowen for Teagarden (maybe Sox can get Engel Beltre back).
by eddiebressoud on Oct 13, 2008 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"maybe Sox can get Engel Beltre back "
lol
by Kinslerhomer on Oct 13, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who
is in the Red’s OF next year? Is there any way we can swing some sort of Laird+OF(Cruz,Murphy,Mayberry, whoever)+lower level gamble(Font,Castillo) for a encarnacion/bailey package?
by phina on Oct 13, 2008 8:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why would we want Encarnacion back?
if you what a bad fielding third baseman than you just play Davis.
by Kinslerhomer on Oct 13, 2008 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
alright, my shot at this thing
So, here we go, Like every other Ranger Fan that really follows the system, Im pumped about the future, but I have to be objective and i cant go to crazy. If im Jon Daniels (which i would do alot of things to be him, alot of things…), I gotta stick to this so called plan we got working. Its the best thing this baseball orginization has done the last 9 years and it finally looks like things are looking up. What that plan entails is as follows this year:
1.) Build from within first and foremost. There wont be a huge 10 mil + FA signing this offseason, as much as i like the idea of Ben Sheets at somewhat of a discounted risk/reward FA signee, I have to stick to developing my own players and part of that entails leaving roster spots open for guys to prove themselves at the ML level. We have a ton of marginal SP prospects lying around ready to be tested at the ML level and i almost cant afford to discard them for something outside of the orginization (See Armando Gallagra, another marginal SP prospect who was just dumped for a risk/reward FA). I have to give Harrison/Hurley/McCarthy/Feldman a chance, and even guys like Nippert/Gabbard/several others have a chance to be good SP, and those guys only have three open spots to work with as is with Paddilla and Milwood as givens in the rotation. After that you have alot of waiting to do, its gonna be somewhat frustrating, but maybe even more ecxiting for the die hard Rangers fan as we see probably the deepest waves of pitching prospects in baseball hit the Major leagues. Starting with the ultra high cieling studs in Neftali Feliz and Derrick Holland (who i wouldnt be suprised to see starting next year with the new policy of Ryan’s in place), and continuing on with Kasey Kiker, Omar Poveda, Michael Main, Blake Beaven, Neil Ramirez, Tim Murphy, Martin Perez and so on.
On the Hitting side, the Rangers are stacked at every position except for 3B, that is somewhat of a ?… Here’s how i see it:
OF: Canidates: Hamilton, Byrd, Murphy, Cruz, Boggs, Borbon. Hamilton is an MVP canidate and should spend about half his time in CF and half in RF, his splits in RF were much better than CF and he needs the rest to stay fresh. Marlon Byrd has been another one in the long line of hitters who have come to Arlington and all of a sudden become really plus offensive players (think Mark DeRossa, Gary Matthews JR, Dave Delucci, and the list goes on). He’s been a very good all-around player for us and honestly its hard not to give him close to 500 ABs this year when he’ll be playing for his only big FA contract likely. D-Murph is certaintly another quality ML OF, his splits are poor agaisnt LHP, but he showed improvement right b4 his injury shortened what would have looked like a really solid year for any ML, much less a rookie. He deserves 70% plus playing time with the occasional day off against LHP. Nelson Cruz might be the biggest Wild Card on the roster, he’s got the ability to be All-Star Caliber player with his tremendous power (Most RH Power since Juan?), speed, Defense and his improving plate discipline. IF he continues his success from this year, we could see a breakout player at 28, he’s got all the skills. IF that happens we got a serious log jam, and for that reason, i have no problem letting go of Milton Bradley this offseason to open up the DH spot, cuz i think every sign points to Cruz being a good ML offensive player next year. Julio Borbon is another wild card. While most think he should spend another year in the minors, I personally think he very well could and should be ready to play in the bigs no later than Midseason 09, does that mean he will? no, simply because there are just to many other options for the OF right now. However, following this year, when Byrd is no longer under team control and we get a draft pick for him leaving via FA, Borbon will be the first guy added to the roster. I really think he’s got the kinda of upside to be a Carl Crawford type with a bit better AVG and slightly less power.
IF: Canidates: Young/Kinsler/Davis/Blalock/Duran/Metcalf/Arias. I dont see the need to supplement from outside the orginization here. All this scrambling for a stop gap at 3b or SS seems pointless when we have more then enough bodies here to do that, its just a matter of juggling it and seeing how the injuries shake out. SOmething that hasnt been really discussed is the possibility of Blalock being healthy enough to play 3b again next year. If so, then great, he’s a capable 3b and a good hitter, it may be a long shot, but its still a possibility. If not, then why Not Davis? He wasnt just terrible there last year, he’s got a good arm and is relatively quick for a big guy. He’s no gold glover, but isnt he almost as good as some stop gap guy like an aging Casey Blake? Im not totally sold on him being there next year, but its not something im that afraid to fall back on. Another option is to use German Duran and Travis Metcalf at 3b next year, Duran had some very nice Minor LG hitting #s and could be a devent ML hitter, however his defense at 3b may be just as suspect as Davis’ D. Metcalf is the flip of that, a good fielder with sub par O, although he did show me something this year with his power. I think any of those three are viable options next year, and I dont see why we need to move Young of SS yet without a ML ready SS in our system. Wait another year, and give Young time to accept the fact that we got a super plus defensive SS in Andrus ready to take over and help this team. You cant tell YOung that he’s moving now b/c of some 20 yr old kid who hasnt progressed past AA, wait til Andrus gets at least another minor leagues season before you do that. You cant eat the bread b4 its cooked. In any case, Young at SS, Kinsler at 2b, Davis/Blalock at 1b with one or the other play 3b some too and DHing occasionally.
2.) Address the Catching Situation: Besides building from within, especially on the pitching front, this should be the biggest offseason focus. Work and look as hard and as long as you can for the maximum value on any of the four catchers. Heres what you look for: Either package one of them with some of the other excess fielding prospects, maybe Mid IF prospects for a ML capable pitcher under team control, or continue to build on the wave of pitchers we have coming, look for another guy who can hit the MLs in 2010 and help us really follow up and reninforce upon this 5 year plan we got working. Give yourself even more room to hit on young pitchers. If we’re gonna win big, we’re gonna have to find as many young arms as possible, push them as hard as we can and then see if we cant squeeze a couple quality SP out. To beat the Angels, we have to in some ways be the Angels and try to match the quality SP they’ve produce from within. Usually finding a young SP already producing in the Majors who a team is willing to part with is really hard to come by, but if we can manage to land a Grienke or Cain with a package involving a catcher, then by god go for it, but i think more than likely the most available guys will either be young Starters either in AA or lower or a failed SP at his first shot in the bigs like a Bailey or a Sanchez or someone along those lines with a slightly lower value.
As far as who we keep, im not very nitpicky as long as we get value in a trade for at least one of the catchers, preferablly two. But if i had my choice id Take TT and Max simply because i like their upside and i think they complement each other really well in a platoon role were Max also sees time elsewhere.
3.) Dont trade young pitching, dont trade young pitching, dont trade young pitching, dont trade young pitchers… PERIOD. I heard some stat this season about how the Angels had not traded a young minor league pitcher they’d developed in over ten years, while this isnt how ever succesful team opperate, it is how one succesful team did things. Id like to see the Rangers start implementing some type of program like this. WHile i never wanna ever totally shut off my options, the staggering inability of the Ranger orginization to hold on to the best of their young SP is amazing. We all know the drill, and im tired of hearing about it to, but at the same time, we have to have to be accountable to it and realize we cannot afford to make the same mistakes, b/c its exactly these mistakes that can be found at the very heart of the Ranger’s problem over the last several years, its not the whole problem, but its alot of it. We have to let the system we have built play itself out. We’ve seen the success over and over again of these teams that build these tremendous farm systems then actually hold onto their players, now we have to do same thing, we’ve seen the blue print and we’ve set ourselves up perfectly to follow it, now just be patient. Patience, some good coaching and maybe a little luck will see us through to the next good, maybe great years of Ranger Baseball.
I got a ton of hope looking forward and love just thinking about where this thing is going.
by blalock84 on Oct 14, 2008 3:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
why?
With Davis and Smoak ready to play 1B now and in the Future, why would the Rangers want Teix?
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Oct 16, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In order to win 85-90 games in 2009
As you specified, this team is going to have to improve the defense substantially.
So here you go:
Trade Chris Davis, Gerald Laird, Eric Hurley, and Jose Vallejo for Florida Marlins for Ricky Nolasco and Kevin Gregg.
Trade Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Marlon Byrd to the Boston Red Sox for Justin Masterson and Coco Crisp.
Sign Joe Crede to a 1 year contract (about 9 million?)
So at the end of the day, you have this team:
CF Coco Crisp
SS Michael Young
2B Ian Kinsler
RF Josh Hamilton
DH Nelson Cruz
1B Hank Blalock
3B Joe Crede
LF David Murphy
C Taylor Teagarden
RHP Ricky Nolasco
RHP Vicente Padilla
RHP Kevin Millwood
LHP Matt Harrison
RHP Brandon McCarthy
CL Frank Francisco
SU Justin Masterson
SU Kevin Gregg
MR CJ Wilson
MR Warner Madrigal
MR Joaquin Benoit
LR Scott Feldman
First, the addition of Crisp and Crede improves the defense substantially at 3B and CF. Teagarden is an improvement at catcher defensively and Josh Hamilton has the range and arm to be a plus defender in RF, more than he was in CF. Adding Crisp and Crede would be short term moves until the Rangers can bring up Andrus and Borbon to play SS and CF and move Young to 3B.
While moving Young off SS in 2009 might be desirable, it could disrupt the clubhouse and it might be more efficient to try to improve the defense elsewhere, like 3B.
As for the pitching, the addition of Nolasco would give the Rangers a young pitcher with fantastic control that can be with the club through 2012. Trading Davis to get Nolasco might hurt, but the Rangers have Blalock (and maybe Ramirez) to play 1B in 2009 and Smoak might be ready sometime in 2010.
Also, the rotation would have very good depth with Masterson and Feldman in the bullpen and available to fill in for any starter that should get hurt.
With the improved defense and additions to the pitching staff, I think that team would be expected to win about 85 games or so. If Nolasco continued to pitch in 2009 like he did at the end of 2008 (3.25 ERA in the second half with a 8.2 K/BB ratio!!), and one Cruz/Blalock continue to hit as well as they did in August/September, that team could win 90+ games. These moves also wouldn’t hurt the team’s biggest strength (the farm system) and would not be prohibitively expensive.
by Stephen Rushin on Oct 18, 2008 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs















