Community MLB Player #13

by PujolsJunkie on Jan 31, 2008 10:03 AM EST Comment 33 comments

Take solace, Twins fans, you still have an elite player on your team. Joe Mauer wins with relative ease on the last one. A catcher with his defensive skill, game-calling ability, and pure hitting prowess is a pretty tremendous commodity.

Fantasy is not the focus of these polls. Overall play is the general thing to keep in mind when you value the player here. It's all about who you'd want to build a team around here in 2008 and for the next few years beyond it. Anyone that receives under 5% of the vote is subject to removal, with 2% being automatic. I have also now added the players' ages as of Opening Day 2008. The last spot on the poll is generally a spot where I test certain guys out to see how they do, so don't flip out about it.

If you vote "Other," please specify who you'd like to see on there.

The 2008 Community MLB Top 100 List

Alex Rodriguez, 3B, New York Yankees [32]
Albert Pujols, 1B, St. Louis Cardinals [28]
Johan Santana, SP, Minnesota Twins (pending physical and contract) [29]
Miguel Cabrera, 3B, Detroit Tigers [24]
David Wright, 3B, New York Mets [25]
Hanley Ramirez, SS, Florida Marlins [24]
Chase Utley, 2B, Philadelphia Phillies [29]
Jose Reyes, SS, New York Mets [24]
Jake Peavy, SP, San Diego Padres [26]
Grady Sizemore, CF, Cleveland Indians [25]
Vladimir Guerrero, RF, Los Angeles Angels [32]
Joe Mauer, C, Minnesota Twins [24]

Poll

Who is the #13 overall player in baseball?

Brandon Webb, SP, Diamondbacks [28]

25 votes

Curtis Granderson, CF, Tigers [27]

10 votes

BJ Upton, CF, Rays [23]

14 votes

Cole Hamels, SP, Phillies [24]

1 votes

Ryan Braun, LF, Brewers [24]

8 votes

Other

4 votes

Jimmy Rollins, SS, Phillies [29]

28 votes

Matt Holliday, LF, Rockies [28]

21 votes

Prince Fielder, 1B, Brewers [23]

27 votes

Josh Beckett, SP, Red Sox [27]

24 votes

162 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 33 comments

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Comments

I'm going to give Lincecum

a test run in the next one.

"The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns." -mckeeno

by PujolsJunkie on Jan 31, 2008 10:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

lol wut

Lincecum? He's not even close to being in the league of any of the top players (neither is Hamels yet). While don't we put Pedro Alvarez on the list while we're at it, because he'll be the next great slugger? I don't think you can really get anything out of this list because it's intentions are so vague (is it just for next year, next few years, or projected career). I don't find this list as really proving anything because it is so strongly weighted on youth and projection rather than proven production.

That being said, if you want to throw on a young pitcher, definitely put on Kazmir, McGowan or even Felix before Lincecum. If you're actually looking for next year or next few years though, how about C.C. Sabathia? How about John Lackey? Dude is perennially underrated, and both are likely to have better careers and immediate futures than many of the players on this list.

Hey fish, leave those kids alone!

by The Congo Hammer on Jan 31, 2008 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

Lincecum and Hamels have actually been productive at the major league level, with a lot of room to improve. Alvarez is likely two years from seeing a major league field. Don't see your point.

Second, it never states it's for anything more than the next few years. Some people would take younger players in this case over some more proven ones. I listed CC and Kazmir a few polls back and will again shortly. You don't need to tell me John Lackey is underrated. I know how good he is.

This will always be subjective--people have differing opinions and that's fine. I'm not doing this for any other reason than my own curiosity, and throwing in a few younger guys to see where they stack up is interesting to me.

"The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns." -mckeeno

by PujolsJunkie on Jan 31, 2008 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

I realize there's a lot of Lincecum love on a prospect site, but at the bare minimum Kazmir and Hamels have been better than him at the same age for much longer.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 31, 2008 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tulo- Other

Why the fuck did you take Troy off man???

by fasterblade on Jan 31, 2008 10:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Watch the language.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 31, 2008 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

eh?

His language was fine.

Marcello on Tim Lincecum's 2008: "Yeah, he only pitched 180 innings last year, who knows if he can handle 200?!?!??"

by realityconquest on Jan 31, 2008 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa whoa whoa

You can't go any further without putting Teixera on this list. It would be an outrage to not list him very soon.

by JFP on Jan 31, 2008 10:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ichiro, Ortiz, T-Rex

where are they?

by gator on Jan 31, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If you['re going with overall play

Ichiro's got to be in the top 20 when you factor his defense in CF. Just one metric, but when looking at Offensive + Defensive Win Shares for position players, the top 5 of 2007 were Arod, Magglio, Wright, Ichiro, and Pujols.

Not saying I'd take Ichiro over Pujols, but I do think he should at least be on the poll. Same for Beltran.

by Fett42 on Jan 31, 2008 11:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Cano

Please add Cano to the list.

by marcello on Jan 31, 2008 12:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Copy and paste what I wrote earlier

He improved his patience last year while maintaining his power and played great D. He's been in the league 3 years now, improved each year (if you adjust for his fluky BA spike from last year), and is going into his age 25 season. Sounds like a cornerstone player to me.

by marcello on Jan 31, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Love him

He's well on his way.

"The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns." -mckeeno

by PujolsJunkie on Jan 31, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

YAWN

That's right, I went there.

by tuna411 on Jan 31, 2008 2:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Great

Now you can go somewhere else.

"The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns." -mckeeno

by PujolsJunkie on Jan 31, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Disgusting

That Mauer gets more votes than Holliday

by METSMETSMETS on Jan 31, 2008 3:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agree

100%

by wildcatrosco on Jan 31, 2008 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ya, really crazy...

considering he's arguably the league's best defensive player at its toughest defensive position, he's younger, and he doesn't have inflated numbers from his ballpark, while Holliday is a defensive liability at the easiest defensive position.

That was sarcasm in case you didn't pick up on it.

by DJSkillz on Feb 1, 2008 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My case

For everyone not on the list and how they are much better than: Grady Sizemore, Joe Mauer and Chase Utley

First off, here are some notes:

Grady Sizemore:

.290/.375/.533, 28 HR, 22 SB OPS+ = 132
.277/.390/.462, 24 HR, 33 SB OPS = 122

Career: .283/.369/.488, average 24 HR per season
Age: 25

Joe Mauer:

.347/.409/.507, 36 2B, 13 HR OPS+ = 144
.293/.382/.426, 27 2B, 7 HR OPS+ = 117

Career: .313/.394/.459, average 14 HR per 162 games, OPS+ = 125
Age: 24

Chase Utley:

.309/.379/.527, 40 2B, 32 HR OPS+ = 125
.332/.410/.566, 48 2B, 22 HR OPS+ = 145

Career: .300/.374/.523, average 27 HR per 162 games, OPS+ = 126
Age: 29

Now that that's out of the way, let's see who did better in OPS+ this year, for starters. In the NL alone, there were at least 5 guys who had better Adjusted OPS+ than Chase Utley. One is Prince Fielder, who has yet to appear on this list. In plain old OPS, Utley tied for 9th in the MLB, behind non-listers like Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Pena, Chipper Jones, Prince Fielder and Matt Holliday. He tied with teammate and non-lister Ryan Howard, who is a year younger.

While Carlos Pena sticks to one good year, Matt Holliday sticks to being better than Mauer, Utley and Sizemore in Home Runs, batting average, on-base percentage, slugging percentage, adjusted OPS and doubles. And he was incredible in 2006.

Magglio Ordonez has hit over 30 HR in 4 seasons in his career and over .300 in 6. Last year he hit .363, had a 167 OPS+, one of the best in baseball, and has a career 129 OPS+. He is 33, but when healthy one of the best in baseball. His BABIP is 383. He has at least a case for being better than Mauer and Sizemore.

David Ortiz was the second best in baseball in OPS last year. His was 1.066. The best in baseball was one Alex Rodriguez with 1.067. Ortiz's OPS+ was a monster 171. And this is no fluke either. Last year it was 161 and the year before it was 158. His OPS in those years all were at least 1.000. He's 32, but has been immaculate for the past 3 years. One of the best runs in baseball history.

Prince Fielder. Younger than Utley, Sizemore and Mauer. Much more powerful, and really overall just better. In his second career year he has blasted 50 HR with a 156 OPS+. and a 1.013 OPS. Is there really more to say?

You can also include Brandon Webb, Jon Lackey, Scott Kazmir, Curtis Granderson, Adam Dunn, Brad Hawpe, Aramis Ramirez, Ryan Howard, BJ Upton, Adam Dunn and Josh Beckett before Sizemore and Mauer. I don't feel like going through all this again.

by METSMETSMETS on Jan 31, 2008 4:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The problem

is you're throwing out the fact that the three guys you're arguing against play (and play very well) at catcher, second and center field, respectively. Those positions are harder to fill with guys like this than first base. I don't doubt what a marvel Prince is, and the same for Howard. But they do take a slight hit for playing 1B, and not all that well.

"The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns." -mckeeno

by PujolsJunkie on Jan 31, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OK. Here are some scenarios.

Who do you take if you're a GM? A 23 year old first baseman who hits 50 HR and has an OPS+ of 156 in his second full season? Or a 25 year old catcher with virtually no power and had a great batting average one year? How about the 28 year old first baseman who has hit 40 HR two years in a row? Him or the guy who steals 20-30 bases and hits for above average power?

The fact is, the fact that he plays a hard position doesn't make him a better player. If Joe Mauer moved to first, he'd put up the same numbers and all of you would say that he sucks. Should Utley move to first base, what would you think about Prince Fielder then?

OK. How about this. It's the first round of a fantasy baseball draft. You're choosing between one of the best hitters in baseball and a guy who barely cracks the Top 50? Consider that.

Next scenario. The best (non-Mitchell Report) hitter for the past 3 years by far or a guy who isn't even the best at their own position? (Sizemore or Mauer) Or would you rather have Jeff Kent II? (Chase Utley)

Who improves your MLB or Fantasy baseball team the most? Mauer and Sizemore or Holliday and David Ortiz?

by METSMETSMETS on Jan 31, 2008 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry for redundancy

by METSMETSMETS on Jan 31, 2008 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

when do Felix and Cain get testers?

After BOSSMAN, I could see myself voting for Cain. His production over the next 3 years will be great methinks

by daveh33 on Jan 31, 2008 5:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

OTHER

LINCECUM OR MARKAKIS

Marcello on Tim Lincecum's 2008: "Yeah, he only pitched 180 innings last year, who knows if he can handle 200?!?!??"

by realityconquest on Jan 31, 2008 5:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

KING FELIX

COME ON!

by jahs34 on Jan 31, 2008 6:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

said in Gob's voice?

by bleedjaxblue on Jan 31, 2008 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

COOCKA-COOCKA

by METSMETSMETS on Jan 31, 2008 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am sick of

the position debate. Matt Holliday is worlds better than Joe Mauer. I'm pretty sure that your position doesn't make up for 33 or 39 less points in OPS+.

If that is the case, then Chase Utley is the best hitter in baseball. Hands down. Forget the fact that he wasn't even in the Top 5 in the NL. He's the best in the game. In fact, Victor Martinez would be in the Top 5 for hitters! He makes Albert Pujols look horrible!

Think before you speak, guys.

by METSMETSMETS on Jan 31, 2008 7:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs