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Velocity Matters

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=705

This is an excellent blog post from BA. The cliff's notes are;

When rating a pitching prospect, velocity isn't the only thing, but it matters.

Seven different pitchers have a peak velocity of 100MPH or more. Of those, two did it in the high minors. I'm sure nobody is suprised to see Joba Chamberlain on the list. You might not have expected Felipe Paulino to have hit 102MPH!

I'd say the five best prospects on that list are Paulino, Chamberlain, Kershaw, McGee, and Scherzer.

Once again I am reminded how funky Jeff Samardzija's career has been. 98MPH with a measly 4.1 K/9 in 2007?

0 recs  |  Comment 18 comments

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I feel like
This kind of analysis would be more likely to come from Kevin Goldstein

by sagecoll on Jan 25, 2008 5:24 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

errr
of course velocity matters

by nyybaseball99 on Jan 25, 2008 7:48 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Paulino?
1 of the five best prospects? Over Morales?

by Dfarth on Jan 25, 2008 8:20 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Velocity Matters
.... but it ain't everything.  A major league hitter can gear up for a 100mph fastball if that's all you have.  (See Mike Pelfrey, not exactly 100 mph but of that same vein).

by Lunkwill Fook on Jan 25, 2008 8:50 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Velocity does matter
but it's got nothing without control.  Steve Dalkowski was a good example.  Sad thing that he injured his arm before getting into majors.  

Movement is another vital part but few have really figured out how to obtain it and Maddux is one of them.  

by shakezula on Jan 25, 2008 9:54 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not long
He injured his arm in spring training.  After toiling in the minors forever, he FINALLY started to get a little bit of control, then hurt his arm in spring training.  But his control was much worse than anyone in the minors other than maybe Jason Neighborgall (who didn't even make the book, but would have had the highest peak velocity on the list).  Here's a guy who averaged 12 K/9 AND 11 BB/9 over the course of his career, and who once walked and struck out 20 in a no hitter.  

If Poreda really hit 100 as a lefty, I'm going to have to start driving that train.  I also wonder where Font falls into the Texas top 10.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 25, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Control, or lack thereof
Interesting bit, from the Wikipedias:

"During the 1960s under Earl Weaver, then the manager for the Orioles' double-A affiliate in Elmira, New York, his game began to show improvement. Weaver had given all of the players an IQ test and discovered that Dalkowski had a lower than normal IQ. Armed with this knowledge, it became apparent why Dalkowski had had such difficulty keeping his game under control: he did not have the mental capacity. Weaver kept things simple for Dalkowski, telling him to only throw the fastball and a slider, and to just aim the fastball down the middle of the plate. This allowed him to concentrate on just throwing the ball for strikes; Weaver knew that not only was his fastball practically unhittable no matter where it was in the strike zone, but that if Dalkowski missed his target, he might just end up throwing it on the corners for a strike anyway. Under Weaver's leadership, he had his best season in 1962."

You almsot have to wonder what could've been if he hadn't gotten hurt, though.

"...and the only things I've found better than listening to Vin Scully are listening to Keith Jackson and uncut cocaine." (bleedjaxblue)

by drjayphd on Jan 25, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dalkowski Jr
This kid had the best arm I have ever seen, mid 90's as a junior in high school when I saw him:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Mark-McGinn.shtml

Career minor league stats:

37 IP, 32 hits, 61 BB, 24 WP

Baseball Instructor - www.frozenropes.com

by HuskerBob on Jan 29, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Font
98 mph-17 years of age.  

by jparks77 on Jan 25, 2008 9:56 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

ERA Matters
If you look at the list of fireballers from 2002 and where they are today, there is a much better correlation with their 2002 ERA at whatever level.

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 25, 2008 10:00 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Just to clarify it...
... it looks like the ERA shown there is their career major league ERA, not their minor league numbers.

For whatever reason Zambrano's at least it wrong, but it works for most others.

by grozzy on Jan 25, 2008 10:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

To Further Clarify
Yes, I went back to looked at the article again and those ERA's are career MLB #'s.  Here's a complete list of BA's "fireballers" from 2002 with their 2002 ERA's:

Erick Threets- 6.67, High A.
Colt Griffin- 5.36, Low A.
Bobby Jenkd- 4.82, High A, 4.66 AA.
Sean Henn- DNP? No stats listed on thebaseballcube.com for 2002.
Ben Howard- 2.18 AA, 6.20 AAA, 9.28 MLB.
Brandon League- 3.15, SS.
Seth McClung- 2.92 High A, 5.37 AA.
Francisco Rodriquez- 1.96 AA, 2.57 AAA.
Carlos Zambrano- 3.66 MLB.
Aaron Cook- 1.42 AA, 3.78 AAA.
Brad Lidge- 2.45 AA, 3.39 AAA.
Nick Neugebauer- 5.12 AAA, 4.72 MLB.
Anthony Pluta- 5.92, Low A

Comments:  

  1.  I'm not sure this list is very good evidence that having 100 MPH heat is all that predictive of future success.  There are some good pitchers on this list, but more mediocre and bad ones.  
  2.  Velocity has to translate into success on the field even at an early career stage in order to project future success.  Performance matters!

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 25, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't Forget Matt Anderson
It's not only being able to get it over the plate, it's being able to harness it and paint corners and have some movement.  If you can throw 100 flat fastballs right down the heart of the plate, you probably won't last long in the majors.  I think guys like KG overrate the fireballers, but the fact is they have the most potential to become aces or stud closers if they develop a good secondary offering and improve their control somewhat
Hey fish, leave those kids alone!

by The Congo Hammer on Jan 25, 2008 12:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

well its not like
tearing his labrum throwing octopi helped

by nms on Jan 25, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Anderson
Injuries undid him.

by SBcaptain2 on Jan 25, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to see
someone take a statistical look at velocity relative to size. Or more specifically discrepancy of size compared to 'average' height of leaguewide pitchers.  Anyone know if that's been done?

Over the past couple of years, that seems to be something that pops out.

Prototypical new age 6'3 to 6'4 guy that throws 96?  Other stuff gets the same ratings as the rest of the guys out there. One other pitch MLB pitch, another needs some work, etc.  Tough time most of the time.  5'11-6' guy's throwing 94-96? better results. 6'8 guy throwing 95? better results. Anecdotal and other factors.  Someone here said look for one REALLY good thing to help filter.  I do that and also look at size a little too.

It would seem to make sense that it has to do with the angle of the plane the hitter typically sees from everyone else.  And his expectations for how it is going to look coming in to him.  Dovetails a little into deception maybe.  But Pedro was Pedro not just because he threw 99, but because he was short and throwing 99 (as well as that wicked change and all the other stuff). Same for Randy.  Command and control have to be there obviously.  I just think that high speed 100 or so from 6'3 isn't as 'good' as 100 from 6'1 or 6'8 due to lack of others doing the same (granted not too many others doing 100 at all, but hopefully you get my drift).

Just wish I had been able to crack 70. My size would have made all the difference...I know it!

by roaddog on Jan 26, 2008 12:26 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think there is a point in here
but for the life of me I can't find it.  Could you please rephrase your post?

thanks.

Baseball Instructor - www.frozenropes.com

by HuskerBob on Jan 29, 2008 6:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What I would like to see
is a separation between these starters and relievers who can throw 100. Any starting pitcher that touches the mid 90s can get real close to 100 when they don't have to conserve their energy and can throw as hard as they want. I've never seen or heard anything about any of Joba's MiL starts, but I'd like to see if he can toss in the high 90s past the 5th inning without losing his composure -- in the Verlander, Harden mold. At least IMO, that's when you can legitimately say a starter throws triple digit heat.

by elrey34 on Jan 26, 2008 12:31 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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