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Baseball America's Top 10 Organizations

As part of a press release from the Nationals, they listed Baseball America's top 10 organizations for 2008.


  1. Tampa Bay

  2. Boston

  3. Cincinnati

  4. Texas

  5. New York Yankees

  6. Los Angelese Dodgers

  7. Colorado

  8. Atlanta

  9. Washington

  10. Los Angeles Angels

The Rangers jumped 24 spots from 2007 while the Nationals jumped 21

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Wow
I thought for sure Oakland would be somewhere in the top 10 after they traded Haren and Swish... did BA release the full list, or is it just the top 10?

by demondeaconbaseball on Jan 24, 2008 11:40 AM EST reply actions  

Rating
I know this rating was before the Swisher trade and it might have been before Haren as well.

With those 2 trades taken into consideration, they're definitely top-10.

The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns.

by mckeeno on Jan 24, 2008 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Any large surprises?
Atlanta seems out of place, a lot of good young talent but they are several years off..

by cubsfan2883 on Jan 24, 2008 11:40 AM EST reply actions  

And here
bravesin07 thought it was all doom and gloom after the trade for Tex.
Send your top 50-100 prospects to slurveone@yahoo.com!!!

by slurve on Jan 24, 2008 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Far off.
While they have alot of talent far off, they also have

Jordan Schafer (1)
Jair Jurrjens (3)
Brandon Jones (4)
Brent Lillibridge (6)

Who are all nearly major league ready, thus showing why they are the 8th best system.

by sully10x on Jan 24, 2008 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Prospects
I'm sorry but, aside from Schafer, I can't get excited about any of those prospects.  They all come off as pretty mediocre to me.

by Lunkwill Fook on Jan 24, 2008 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

This statement
Lets me know that people on this board either don't know or simply don't like the Braves system. We traded off a ton of our prospects and still have a better system than 22 other teams. We have tremendous depth which is why we're ranked where we are. As for our prospects looking mediocre did you really check their stats? All I have to say is don't hate on our system because you thought it was depleted.

by Jay212033 on Jan 24, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Braves prospects
I did, in fact, look at their stats, thank you.  Actually, I thought their names were just a little funky so I kicked them to the curb.

I just don't like Thomas as a 1st baseman.  He really doesn't seem to hit enough for me to think he's a top prospect at that position.

Jurrgens looks like a decent starter but no better than a back of the rotation type guy.

Lillibridge is okay especially at the position but doesn't really strike me as especially notable.  A little pop, but not a lot.  A little average but not a lot.

by Lunkwill Fook on Jan 24, 2008 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Thomas?
I don't know why I said Thomas.  I meant Jones.

by Lunkwill Fook on Jan 24, 2008 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Jones
Jones is an OF, not a 1b.
The Dodgers won't win a playoff series until the Cool-a-Coo returns.

by mckeeno on Jan 24, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

My apologies then....
For some reason, I was getting him confused with some other 1st base prospect.  I take back my comments on Jones then.

by Lunkwill Fook on Jan 24, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Shabby research
You really did a horrible job researching those players. If you don't like our system just say so because it sounds like your hating to me.

by Jay212033 on Jan 24, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow
I got one player's position wrong.  For some reason I thought he was 1B/OF.  Defensive much?

by Lunkwill Fook on Jan 24, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow.
I happen to be, yes, but I also said I liked some other of the Braves prospects.  I just happen to think the Jurrgens and Lillibridge ain't all that.  Is that okay?

by Lunkwill Fook on Jan 24, 2008 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I didn't want to dump on you
but did think your assessment was way off.  I can't blame you as a Mets fan but I wouldn't hold it against you.  

I think the Braves system is very good and is definitely top 10 worthy.  We had a pretty good draft and one of the top foreign signings to go with a pretty good core already.  Gorkys and Jurrjens have potential and helped even though I don't personally like them.  

by jfish26101 on Jan 24, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Lillibridge
Right now, he looks like Ellsbury with more pop. I think with two years of mlb experience, he should be a great leadoff guy/CF.

by southboundpachyderm on Jan 24, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Is he "officially" moving back to CF?
I hadn't heard it if he has but have been wondering why they didn't make the switch.  I suppose it's possible they like him more than Escobar (I do).

Thanks.

by jfish26101 on Jan 24, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Not near the contact skills
Ellsbury's got better contact skills by a country mile. I think .290 is probably Lillibridge's ceiling in the BA department. Still, I think he'll walk enough to get on base, and his bat has some real pop in it.

As for his role on the Braves next year, well, I think they'll try him out in CF some during ST and see if he can hack it. If things go well there and things go well at the plate while Infante is out, I think you could see him stick with the big club. Otherwise, he'll go down after Infante returns and probably get some work in the outfield in AAA.

It might just be me, but he really seems like the type who could be a Figgins-type super-sub. If he can re-learn CF, he'll be good defensively everywhere on the diamond besides C and I guess 1B. I think his bat will play well enough that you won't mind trotting him out there when Chipper needs a day off or whatever. That said, his defense at SS is very good already, so even does okay in the OF this Spring, I don't think the Braves see him as a long-term option out there.

Commenting generally on Atlanta's system, I'm a bit surprised they weren't higher. I really like the talent they got in the Renteria deal, and I'd have them up around 5th or 6th. Tons of depth and Schafer and Heyward give them some high-impact talent. And considering his ARL, Jurrjens has a legit shot to be a #2 guy in the majors.

by mraver on Jan 24, 2008 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I'd love to see it happen
but I don't see Jurrjens as a 2.  He only has 1 plus pitch and 2 average offerings.  I've heard some say his delivery has to much effort and might lead to injury problems (he had some minor shoulder issues a couple seasons ago I believe).  I just don't see him being anything more than a back end starter once the league figures him out.  :(

by jfish26101 on Jan 25, 2008 12:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Boston?
BSox over Cincy and the Rangers is ridiculous!!!

by team name deleted on Jan 24, 2008 11:58 AM EST reply actions  

Why?
Much more depth than the Reds, much more top-end talent than the Rangers.  I'd probably rate them #3 ahead of the Rangers, but I'm more biased towards teams with potential 'difference-makers'.
Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 24, 2008 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

well
if you consider SP and OF prospects only it makes sense.

by Havok1517 on Jan 24, 2008 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Washington
I'm not saying they don't have prospects but to rank them over a lot of the other teams.... I just don't buy it.

by Lunkwill Fook on Jan 24, 2008 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

+1
Don't buy it yet.
Rowdy Hardy Fan Club member.

by doublestix on Jan 24, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

mid season..
Bye mid season Texas and TB still should remain in the top 3 with the graduations of players in Bos, Cin, NYY, LAA and LAD all making a major shake up in the overall top 10. Oakland has a legitamate shot of having a top 4 system by the midpoint of the baseball seasaon
Batting practice tomorrow you be there....I have Pop, everyday

by laxtonto on Jan 24, 2008 12:39 PM EST reply actions  

Welllllll...
I dunno about that. Daric Barton will certainly "graduate" in 2008. Carlos Gonzalez and Ryan Sweeney probably will, and Gio Gonzalez might. James Simmons might, as well. That's a heck of a lot of talent.

The A's will need some upward movement by the lower-level guys like Cahill, Demel, Corey Brown, Cunningham, etc. plus a strong draft (given that they're likely to only have 1-2 first round/supplemental picks) to remain a top 5 system.

by PaulThomas @ Minor League Ball on Jan 24, 2008 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

What are you're opinions on?
  1. Top pitching system
  2. Top hitting system
  3. Worst pitching system
  4. Worst hitting system
For top pitching, I think I'd pick Tampa then NY.
For top hitting, Tampa then Cincinnati?
Not sure for other two.
http://yankeesmtom.blogspot.com/

by hallofamer2000 on Jan 24, 2008 4:13 PM EST reply actions  

My top ten
  1. Top Pitching - Tampa Bay easily (Price, Davis, McGee, and tons more depth). I like the Dodgers and Rangers after that.
  2. Top Hitting - Boston is loaded, the Dodgers are pretty good, and Cincinatti (Frazier, Votto, Bruce, Mesoraco, Stubbs) are pretty good too. Rays are there also.
  3. Worst Pitching - Blue Jays (Cecil and then what?). Giants pitching is all far away, White Sox are weak, and Houston is weak.
  4. Worst Hitting - White Sox have really nothing coming at all. At least Houston has Bourn and Towles

by 17843 on Jan 24, 2008 8:13 PM EST reply actions  

Out of place...
Angels.

I think both LA teams got bumps from having a 4-5 year run of great farm systems, and it's influencing the rankings of both teams during a down year.

The dodgers would still be in my personal top-10, but I'd take Seattle's system and maybe St. Louis's over the Angels' current crop.  Maybe the Orioles' system as well.

Discuss.

Reporting on Baseball from around the world! http://globalbaseball.wordpress.com

by jhelfgott @ Minor League Ball on Jan 24, 2008 10:23 PM EST reply actions  

Dodgers
I disagree with you about the Dodgers, and in fact I think they should definitely have been ranked in the Top 5, ahead of the Yankees for sure. I have seen BA's full Top 30 list for the Dodgers (I haven't got BA's Prospect Handbook yet, but somebody who has the book posted the names) and there are quite a few Dodger prospects who didn't make the Top 30 that would have made some other teams' Top 20's (maybe the Astros, Tigers, and White Sox's Top 10's). The Dodgers, in short, are very strong at the top AND deep. How is that skating by on past reputation? How is that having a "down year?"

by CanuckDodger on Jan 25, 2008 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow
Guys who didn't make the Dodgers top 30 would make others top 10's?  Are you a Dodgers fan by chance?  That is one heck of a statement.  :D  Good luck with that system but it doesn't sound like you need it.  You should win the West for the next 5-8 seasons with that type of depth/talent.

by jfish26101 on Jan 25, 2008 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...
Maybe name some names, so we can have a discussion?

The Dodgers' system just isn't that impressive. Most definitely not as good as the Yankees' at the moment.

If I had to combine the two systems for a top-10 list, my personal list would look something like this:

  1. Joba Chamberlain
  2. Clayton Kershaw
  3. Andy LaRoche
  4. Austin Jackson
  5. Ian Kennedy
  6. Jose Tabata
  7. Chin Ling Hu
  8. Alan Horne
  9. Jesus Montero
  10. Jeff Marquez
On talent alone Elbert would probably take the #8 spot, but labrum issues are enough to deal a serious blow to his stock.

I think I'm being a little bit generous to Hu, as well.  My inclination says he should be at #9, but scouts seem to absolutely love his glove.

Blake Dewitt looked like a solid B prospect as a second baseman.  As a 3rd baseman, not so much.

Reporting on Baseball from around the world! http://globalbaseball.wordpress.com

by jhelfgott @ Minor League Ball on Jan 25, 2008 2:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Yankees
I read BA's Top 10 Yankees' profiles when they first came out, which was before Jim Callis made it known in an ESPN chat that BA ranked the Yankees system #5. When I had finished reading through the profiles, my immediate reaction was, "Wow, half these guys don't even belong in a very average farm system's team's Top 10." Let's take them one by one:

(01). Joba Chamberlain, RHP -- I'm fine with Chamberlain over Kershaw. Not sure that Kershaw won't be better in the long run, and bonus points for being a southpaw, but Joba looks like an ace in the making himself, and is three years ahead of Kershaw on the development curve, so fine, Yankees win this match up.

(02). Austin Jackson, OF -- He was lousy last year in low A, and wasn't much better for half a season on the exact same team this year, then he goes up to the next level and starts looking like Ken Griffey, Jr., for 258 AB's? I'm sorry, I will wait till next year to see which is the REAL Austin Jackson. His Tampa performance means SOMETHING, certainly. I just don't know how much measured against his low A, Sally League futility.

(03). Jose Tabata, OF -- So young for his levels his stats are hard to interpret, but questions about his work ethic make him remind me of one-time Dodger prospect Joel Guzman, which is NOT a good thing. For now, I still like him.

(04). Ian Kennedy, RHP -- Mid-rotation MLB starter, no worse and no better. I would take RHP James McDonald of the Dodgers ahead of Kennedy, since McDonald has a curve that is a plus pitch in ADDITION to a change-up that Logan White calls "outstanding," but which BA inexplicably says is "average" (sorry BA, I think I will trust Logan White over you guys). Two plus pitches beats Kennedy's one plus pitch. And McDonald's long, skinny frame at least gives his 88-93 MPH fastball potential for improvement that Kennedy's 88-92 MPH fastball doesn't have.

(05). Alan Horne, RHP -- This is the first guy I questioned even being in a Top 10. In my book, pitchers in a team's Top 10 shouldn't be pitching in Double A at the (relative) grey old age of 24. Not a Top 10 guy. And on top of that, BA says Horne has a mechanical flaw that even Yankee coaches call "incorrectable." Horne wouldn't make my Dodger Top 15.

(06). Jesus Montero, C -- He won't stay at catcher, and he won't play a more premium position than 1B, in the end. Nice prospect, and I don't object to him being in the Top 10, but I doubt I would take him over the Dodgers' Andrew Lambo, who was more impressive in the GCL in 2007, and Lambo, though possibly a 1B in the end, at least has a shot at being an outfielder.

(07). Jeff Marquez, RHP -- Only 95 K's in 155 IP and more hits given up than innings pitched? A pitcher would have to be REALLY young for his league for me to over-look that in a Top 10 prospect, and at age 22 in Double A, Marquez isn't getting any slack cut for him by me.

(08). Brett Gardner, OF -- Zero power from a 23-year-old Double A OF with a weak arm. On my MLB team he's 5th outfielder material, but Ned Colletti would probably give him a $44 million contract. Shouldn't make a team's Top 10.

(09). Ross Ohlendorf, RHP -- 24-year-old AAA starter-turned-reliever with a 5.02 ERA and 48 K's in 66 IP. A Top 10 prospect? BA's kidding, right?

(10). Andrew Brackman, RHP -- Worst pick by any team in the first round of the 2007 draft. Has pitched less than 150 innings total in three college seasons, and NEVER put up numbers expected from a top college pitcher. But because he's tall enough to touch the moon and throws a fastball a zillion miles per hour, he is called a potential MLB ace. HA! Has had Tommy John surgery, so now he will not throw a profesional pitch till he is 23-years-old. As Yankees' prospects compare, this guy is going to make Drew Henson look like a big success.

When you put together your own Top 10 out of Yankee and Dodger prospects, you didn't use BA's Top 10 Yankees order, but I assume your own ranking of Yankee prospects, so I, as well, will use my own ranking of Dodger prospects, and not BA's:

(01). Joba Chamberlain,RHP
(02). Clayton Kershaw, LHP
(03). Andy LaRoche, 3B
(04). Chin-Lung Hu, SS
(05). Austin Jackson, OF
(06). Jose Tabata, OF
(07). James McDonald, RHP
(08). Ian Kennedy, RHP
(09). Jonathan Meloan, RHP
(10). Blake DeWitt,3B

Like you, I think BA should have penalized Elbert for having shoulder surgery. I am looking forward to seeing if he makes a come-back in 2008, but we'll see.  On talent alone I'd rank him in front of Hu.

by CanuckDodger on Jan 25, 2008 4:46 AM EST up reply actions  

And I can
nitpick LA's organizational depth to death too. Do you even know the first thing about Alan Horne (elite stuff but control and injury issues)? Jeff Marquez (great stuff that he still hasn't completely harnessed yet)? Ross Ohlendorf (MLB-ready reliever)?

Or what about the incredible depth of the NYY system? It's one of the deepest out there. We can play the "our top 30 guys would be on bad teams' top 10s" game too. Dellin Betances. Carmen Angelini. Francisco Cervelli. Mark Melancon. Austin Romine.

Todd Frazier for President

by FrazierFan on Jan 25, 2008 5:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Go Ahead...
...and nitpick Dodger prospects if you want. Say what you will, and I will say if I agree or disagreee, if you know anything about the players to comment. Do I "know the first thing" about Horne, Marquez, and Ohlendorf? I have already discussed each of them, so yes, I know the first thing, I know the second thing, and I know the third thing as well, and you haven't even TRIED to refute any of my points against them. I have read up on Betances, Angelini, Cervelli, Melancon, Romine. What about them? They're depth. They're nothing extraordinary, and lots of systems have their equivalents outside their Top 10's.

by CanuckDodger on Jan 25, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

did you
miss the part about horne flashing 4 plus pitches, or did you exclusively focus on his age

brackman also has 2 plus-plus pitches, which is why they said he was a potential ace

jackson has always been one of the top players in his age group. it took some mechanical adjustments to his swing before he took off. he also played very well in the HWL

by bmxstreetrider86 on Jan 25, 2008 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh
Not thrilled with their high-end talent.  Sure, they're deep, but after Kershaw and Laroche, there's a really big drop to the next three (McDonald, Meloan, Elbert), and then there's another really big drop to a whole slew of C+ types.  The Yankees seem to have significantly more guys with a good chance of making a positive major league impact, and their depth isn't horrible as well.
Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 25, 2008 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Whoops
missed Hu.  Still doesn't change the analysis much though.
Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 25, 2008 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

And You Won't Be Surprised...
...that I disagree with the proposition that "The Yankees have significantly more guys with a good chance of making a positive major league impact..." It has been literally YEARS since you and I have had a discussion like this, but I have had it, or its like, with a lot of prospects fans over time. Non-Dodgers fans have been telling me for years that Dodger prospects are "high risk" and that very few will ever make it to the majors relative to all the better players who will make it from the systems of teams like Oakland and Toronto that draft "safer players," players from colleges with proven statistical profiles, and I have always denied it. (And the Yankees are another team that drafts heavily from colleges, and a lot of this vaunted Yankee depth consists of college players.) To say that history has proven my side of the argument would be, I think, an understatement.

by CanuckDodger on Jan 25, 2008 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

yea
the yankees taking those safe college players recently.

they drafted eric duncan in 03, hughes in 04, cj henry in 05, kennedy and chamberlain in 06 and brackman in 07

i see 1 "safe" college pick there

by bmxstreetrider86 on Jan 25, 2008 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Unbiased opinion here...
Not a Yankee or Dodger fan or competing rival fan.  

I like the Dodgers' guys way better as well.  

I saw Kennedy many times in college and was just never impressed with him at all.  He's a backend rotation guy longterm to me.  Probably a #4 on a good team.  I always viewed Jered Weaver the same way seeing him at LBS.  And I stand by that as well.  Too many question marks for me with a lot of the Yanks' prospects.

by DJSkillz on Jan 27, 2008 2:05 AM EST reply actions  

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