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Angel vs. Jesus

It's a slow time for prospect news, so I thought I would start some conversation about 2 of the minors' brightest young prospects.  No, I'm not going to compare Villalona to everybody's favorite Messiah, though I'm sure there are some Giant fans who would take Big V over the "son of God" in a heartbeat.  Instead, I wanted to compare the 2 biggest (by bonus, and probably by size) signings of 2006.  Villalona received a 2.1 million dollar bonus, and Montero 1.6. One of them, Villalona is in the top 40 of our community list, and will likely receive a B+ grade from John.  Montero received a C+ from John, though is on the border of a B-, and will likely be on the back end of the top 100 if he makes it at all.

Scouting-wise, both are projected to have huge power, with Montero's supposedly at 80 on the scouting scale and Villalona is probably similar.  Villalona is probably projected to be a better hitter for average, though I cannot say that with any degree of certainty.  Defensively, neither are supposed to be great defenders at their current positions, though they are improving, and neither of them is likely to be moved next season.

Now, let's take a look at the stats at the same level:
Villalona: .285/.344/.450 in 200 AB in the AZL, with 15 walks against 42 strikeouts (I'm going to ignore his mediocre numbers in the NWL because it was a 12 at bat sample).

Montero:  .280/.366/.421 in 107 AB's (he missed the first part of the season with an ankle injury, hence the limited at bats).  He drew 12 walks against 18 strikeouts.

Both put up very similar numbers in rookie ball, showing the ability to hit for average, walk, and hit for power.  Villalona showed a little more power, but Montero demonstrated superior plate discipline (by virtue of the k:bb ratios and his # of walks).

Important factors that have not been mentioned yet are age and position.  Age certainly favors Villalona, who was 8 months younger than Montero.  Position favors Montero, who was playing catcher, and was impressing scouts who previously didn't think he would stay at the position.  His stats for a catcher were more impressive than Villalona's stats were for a 3rd baseman.

Don't get me wrong, I think Villalona's going to be great, but I guess I'm wondering why everybody sees him as far superior to Montero, a prospect with similar (though maybe not equivalent) hype when he was signed, similar numbers (with Montero's at a much more important position).  While I'm sure many of you are still operating under the impression that Montero is a 1st baseman waiting to happen, as is Villalona, recent reports speak very favorably of Jesus's improving skills behind the dish, and the Yankees rave about his work ethic.

I'm going to make a poll, and I'd like you to vote for your belief on how Villalona and Montero should be compared.  I guess these could be thoughts of how to compare prospects without long track records, and think about the relative importance of position, ARL, bonus size and scouting.  Feel free to discuss your votes or other options if I didn't address them.  I would advise you to avoid the joke answers, as I put them on there just for fun.

Poll
What are your thoughts on Montero vs. Villalona?
I think Big V is far better than Montero primarily because of ARL. I don't think Montero will stick at catcher
4 votes
I love Big V, but Jesus is just alright with me. Maybe they're not far apart after all. Maybe Jesus's position value equals or even outweighs Villalona's scouting/ARL/hype.
15 votes
I think Big V is far ahead of Montero because of scouting, even if Montero can stick at catcher
6 votes
Other (list in comments)
3 votes
Big V is far ahead of Montero primaily because of scouting (from publications, bonus size). I don't believe Montero will stick at catcher.
25 votes
I think Big Vi is far ahead of Montero because of ARL, even if Montero can stick at catcher
1 votes
I think Big V is a little ahead of Montero primarily because of scouting, but Montero is close because he put up his numbers as a catcher, and has a chance to stick there
14 votes
Big V should rank far higher than Montero out of spite. I hate Yankee fans and Yankee prospects.
5 votes
Big V is a little ahead because of ARL, but Montero may stick at catcher, so he has more position value.
14 votes
I just love Villalona, and have trouble thinking objectively about him, so he's far and away a better prospect
6 votes

93 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 18 comments

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well, you screwed the pooch on the headline.
come on.  "angel vs. jesus".  begging for it.

by wily mo on Jan 2, 2008 4:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Touche
Done
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/

by lemonjello on Jan 2, 2008 4:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I went with a joke answer
But my real reasons for preferring Villalona are threefold:
  1. I don't think Montero will stick at catcher
  2. Villalona's body is infinitely more projectable than Montero's
  3. Somewhat better scouting reports
#2 is really the kicker for me though.  That said, I don't have Villalona rated particularly high.  I don't see how he should be rated ahead of, say, Josh Vitters.
Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 2, 2008 4:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Body more projectable?
Could you elaborate on that a little more.  Is that because Villalona is younger, and you think he is going to grow more?  Because Montero is bigger right now (6'4 225 vs. 6'3 200), and I would imagine both are pretty muscular.  Do you think Villalona will end up bigger than Montero?
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/

by lemonjello on Jan 2, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Brickhouse
"2. Villalona's body is INFINITELY more projectable than Montero's"

Jesús Montero:

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6078065/i/GCL_Yankees_7-26-07_220.jpg

Angel Villalona:

http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/09/26/sp_vilalona01.jpg

by metalboy15 on Jan 2, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, I think I see what you meant
So Montero's body is more developed and mature already, while Villalona is still soft and could add some muscle/lose fat.
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/

by lemonjello on Jan 2, 2008 4:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sort of
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see which one has already filled out.
Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 2, 2008 5:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Body Type
On the topic of montero, we ought to remember the not-so-quiet whispers surrounding a possible failed urine test when he was signed by the Yankees.  The failed test lead to the revocation of a substantial part of the bonus.  This is what makes me somewhat skeptical of Montero, in addition to concerns over whether or not he will be able to stay behind the plate.  

That having been said, I really don't you can go wrong with either.  Both are great, great prospects.

by GuyinNY on Jan 2, 2008 5:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

brickhaus
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see which one has already filled out.

I'm assuming you're somehow saying Villalona is more physically projectable. If that is the case, I would appreciate an explanation as to how. Montero is taller and appears to have a frame more ready to carry some extra weight, meanwhile Angel Villalona looks like Miguel Cabrera in the making (and not in a good way)

...NJASDJDH...

by Fabian on Jan 2, 2008 9:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he's saying
that Villalona could improve as a player if he gets in better shape and gets more muscular, but Montero's body can only go downhill from here.  However, I agree that you can't assume that Villalona will definitely get into the kind of shape that Montero is in, he could always get fatter.  If you're using that as a criterion for rating a prospect highly, then I guess Humberto Sanchez should be higher on the list, and David Wells should be in the hall of fame based on the fact that he was probably the most physically projectable pitcher in history (at least until CC Sabathia came along).
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/

by lemonjello on Jan 2, 2008 9:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not exactly
I'm saying Villalona still looks like a little kid, while Montero looks like a man.  What I'm saying is that Montero is just much more developed than V, who doesn't seem to have finished puberty yet.  And yes, the steroid and age questions do linger in the back of my head with Montero.
Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 3, 2008 8:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Not exactly
Eh...I guess I see what you're saying and thanks for backing it up. Just don't agree there's much difference in tools, physical projection or any of that to warrant the huge difference in ranking we will almost no doubt see this offseason.
...NJASDJDH...

by Fabian on Jan 3, 2008 8:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It depends
Both are at the very very least 3-4 years away anyway.

The issue with Montero is that if he moves from C he's going strait to 1B, where as even if Angel move from 3B he still has the corner OF to fall back to first.

But if Jesus somehow defy all odds and stay behind the plate then the debate gets far more interesting.

by RollingWave on Jan 3, 2008 12:58 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Angel in the OF
If Angel Villalona moves off of 3B and goes anywhere but DH/1B I will eat this website.
...NJASDJDH...

by Fabian on Jan 3, 2008 8:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not if
Big V eats it first.  He does have all that physical projection after all.
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/

by lemonjello on Jan 3, 2008 9:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Arm
All reports I've read about Angel V say he has a strong arm.  If he has to move off 3B, it won't be because of a weak arm, so I don't see why he couldn't play LF.  On the other hand, it wouldn't take much of a bat to be an offensive upgrade on what the Giants have run out there at 1B for the last, well, since Will Clark left.

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 3, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

DrB
Nothing to do with arm and everything to do with footspeed/range/athleticism.
...NJASDJDH...

by Fabian on Jan 3, 2008 12:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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