Mining for C+ Gold
It seems that a few times a year a C+ prospect breaks out and has a good year (Mark Reynolds, Manny Parra, Steven Pearce, Asdrubal, Felipe Paulino) and rises in John's rankings. It also seems to be the lowest grade where someone still has a chance to be a solid if not spectacular major league player (unless you're Wlad).
Did John grade someone low with a C+ that should be a B- on his list? Did John overlook a hidden gem and throw him into the Pit of C+ Despair?
Is there someone that will get more playing time therefore making him more valuable than other C+ prospects?
Is there a particular meaty C+ pitching prospect you think might break out?
Because there are so many C+ prospects, I've limited it to first-year players, but feel free to toss out the names of others. I've also thrown in a couple of C+ from last year that had good stats in AAA or in a short MLB stint to see if anybody thinks they have a shot at breaking out.
C+ BATS
If any other C+ prospect you felt should have been higher, feel free to post and discuss. Looking forward to the community's sleeper prospects. Just looking for some hidden C+ gold.
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26 comments
Comments
Vanden Hurk
by killa on Jan 16, 2008 9:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brad Lincoln
by NMUWildcat027 on Jan 16, 2008 10:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Erbe
Even in an off year, his K-rate was very good in Hi-A as a teenager.
by dkdc on Jan 16, 2008 10:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
what went wrong with erbe?
by Wheelhouse on Jan 16, 2008 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Supposedly
I'm not sure if that's true or just revisionist history to explain his troubles, but the good news is that there were no injuries as far as I know.
by dkdc on Jan 16, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
David Purcey C+
by Jdog on Jan 16, 2008 10:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
David Bromberg, Twins
by batman on Jan 16, 2008 10:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i'm confused...
by ayjackson on Jan 16, 2008 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
YES.
by The Colonel on Jan 16, 2008 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot some C+ RP prospects
Kevin Hart
Jose Ascanio
Manny Acosta
Ross Ohlendorf
Kevin Cameron
Jon Albaladejo
Billy Petrick
Lee Gronciewicz
Armando Galarraga
Jensen Lewis
Marcus McBeth
Dan Meyer
Chase Wright
Blackley
J.A. Happ
Any of these guys interesting for the future?
by The Colonel on Jan 16, 2008 11:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jesus Montero
by lemonjello on Jan 16, 2008 11:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Laffey
At the very least, he can be a #4 on a decent team.
by lenred on Jan 16, 2008 11:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Javier Hererra
this is make or break for him in 08
by rayver723 on Jan 16, 2008 11:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Raburn
This is the guy that collided with Jason Kubel in the AFL in 2004. This resulted in Kubel's knee injury, and much heartache from this Twins fan.
I hold no ill will toward Raburn, and hope he does well.
However, because of the accident, I won't pick him on my SIM team.
by dbimberg on Jan 16, 2008 11:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dan Meyer
by dlpme77 on Jan 16, 2008 11:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i wasnt too impressed
by rayver723 on Jan 16, 2008 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't say nerves
by dlpme77 on Jan 16, 2008 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Velocity-wise
The problem was command, not velocity. He kept leaving meatballs over the middle of the plate.
by PaulThomas on Jan 17, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool, thanks
by The Colonel on Jan 16, 2008 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Texas C+
by laxtonto on Jan 16, 2008 4:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Francisco, Lewis, Jordan Brown, & others!
Colonel - I'm here! :-)
Regarding Francisco, he's likely to begin back at AAA Buffalo again - to get more at-bats and also to improve his defense a bit, especially in terms of consistency and getting better reads on balls. Mind you, he hasn't done a bad job in the OF, but the Indians would like him to work a little more on his defense while at Buffalo - like most players, he has put more focus on his offense rather than his defense as he's moved up the ladder.
Being that Sizemore, Dellucci, Michaels, Gutierrez, and Blake(?! - depending on whether Marte is the starting 3B,) there's virtually no room for Francisco at this point. There's also Choo, who supposedly has made good progress in recovering from the arm/shoulder injury he suffered last season.
Regarding Jensen Lewis, he has a fearless demeanor and goes right after the hitters. His fastball can reach between 93-95 MPH and his slider has very good movement to it. I think he's still working on a changeup (I think) to combat lefties better, but he showed some progress even with that late last season.
Long-term, I think he could be a good setup man or possibly even a solid to good closer, since he has above-average stuff (better than Borowski's) and has the mindset to go right after hitters. That's partly why he did so well in a relief role last year for the Indians, and is one of the main reasons why he will remain in the bullpen long-term (he was originally a starter prospect when he was drafted, but his FB velocity increased and his slider became much sharper out of the bullpen, thereby making the move to the bullpen in all likelihood permanent.)
A quick thought on Laffey - I agree with lenred - I think Laffey can be a solid back-end of the rotation guy (#4-#5,) possibly a #3 at his very best, similar to Jake Westbrook. It's amazing to see a LHP get as many groundballs as he does, as most groundball pitchers are RHP. I think he will get a good chance to stick as the #5 pitcher to begin the 2008 season - some might even say he is the favorite amongst himself, Lee, Sowers, and Miller (though Miller might be the favorite if not for his questionable health in 2007, so Miller could be a darkhorse wild card to be the #5 starter, but I suspect the Indians will be cautious with him and allow him to return to AAA, especially since they have three other decent to solid options to fill that #5 spot to start 2008.)
One C+ prospect who I think should be on the list you presented is OF Jordan Brown; in my opinion, he is probably one of the most underrated prospects in baseball, mostly because his tools don't stand out and wow you, but he gets the most out of his tools and skills - Baseball America named him as the prospect with the best tools in the Eastern League this past season.
He is originally a 1B, and I've heard reports he is above-average, though he could use some more work there, but being that Garko is blocking him at the moment and the Indians also have Head at AA, not to mention some other possibilities (Whitney if he returns from the Nationals as several think he will, Mills if he eventually moves to 1B, Weglarz if he can't stick in LF long-term, Chris Nash down at SS-A Mahoning Valley, etc.,) Brown has been splitting time between 1B and LF. He still needs more repetitions in LF, but looks pretty solid out there.
He doesn't have the prototypical power you'd expect out of a 1B or LF (he might hit 20-25 HRs at most for a few seasons,) which is likely another reason why he gets overlooked and underranked, but he's won the Carolina League and Eastern League MVPs the last two seasons, not being that much older than league average, especially for a college draftee (out of the Univ. of Arizona.)
Brown has a very good batting eye (nearly a 1:1 BB/K career ratio, including a 63 BB/56 K ratio in 483 AA ABs in 2007) and can hit for average (career .307 BA, including .333 at AA in 2007.) Because of his good batting eye, he doesn't swing at many bad pitches and can post high OBPs (.421 at AA in 2007; combined with a .484 SLG, it led to a .905 OPS at AA in 2007.)
One of the reasons why many think he could hit 20-25 HRs in his prime is due to the fact he hits a lot of 2Bs (36 in 483 ABs at AA in 2007, along with 26 2Bs in 473 ABs at High-A in 2006.)
While not extremely fast, he's a smart baserunner, stealing 11/13 bases in 2007; he might have stolen more bases if not for a bad knee he had for all of the second half, as he only attempted a few stolen bases in the second half of last season. I believe his knee is reported to be 100% now, as I think he had surgery on it this past offseason if I remember correctly.
He'll begin 2008 at AAA Buffalo, playing both 1B and LF (mostly LF I suspect since I think 1B Ryan Mulhern is still in the Indians' organization, plus the fact Garko will very likely be the Indians' starting 1B in 2008); presuming he does well at AAA Buffalo in the first half, it's possible Brown could see time with the Indians in the second half of 2008, and especially if the Dellucci/Michaels platoon doesn't live up to expectations again in 2008.
I think Brown is one who should be a B- or a B, based on his production the last two seasons, plus the fact he's not all that old (just turned 24-YO in December.)
Nick Weglarz is another C+ prospect to keep an eye on - he hit .276 as a 19-YO in the SAL, has plus-plus power potential (hit 24-HRs in 2007 after breaking his hamate bone in 2006 and is projected to be as high as a 35-40 HR power threat in the future,) and drew 82 BBs in 439 ABs in the SAL, showing that he has an advanced eye and the discipline to work a walk at a young age. He was talked about quite a bit in John's Top 20 Indians thread.
Just my 2 cents. :-)
Take care and have a great day!
by indiansfan on Jan 16, 2008 6:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hi indiansfan,
I believe that Jordan Brown, Ben Francisco, Jensen Lewis and Aaron Laffey are among the C+ rated prospects who will contribute to the Indians this year. The simple reason is that they are not C+ prospects. They are misrated just as Rafael Perez, Asdrubal Cabrera and others were last year.
Jordan Brown is arguably the #2 prospect in the Cleveland system. His OF range and speed were limited for the last two years by a knee problem which has been alleviated by surgery. Look at when his SBs were last year. Unless Dellucci really lights it up, I expect him to play LF by July in Cleveland.
Jensen Lewis will be a late inning reliever this year. Along with Perez, Sipp and Stevens, he will be auditioning for future closer this year.
Francisco and Laffey both have difficult competition for opening day jobs but it would not surprise me if both make it.
Do you find it odd that so many lower rated prospects with limited ceilings are finding places to contribute to a ML club that came within 1 game of being the best team in baseball?
by sdtribefan on Jan 16, 2008 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's a testament to the overall
Hello sdtribefan,
Thanks for the compliment - greatly appreciated! :-) You're doing nice work as well!
Regarding Laffey, I think he could be considered the favorite for the #5 spot going into ST - whether he can maintain it against Lee, Sowers, and possibly Miller, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure his strong effort at the end of last year has to give him a bit of an edge coming into ST.
Regarding Lewis, I think he'll either be a late-inning reliever based on his skill or be pushed back to the 6th-7th inning if Kobayashi and Betancourt do well in the 7th-8th innings, which actually would help to strengthen the bullpen if Lewis performs like he did last season. But in terms of his skillset and ability, yes, Lewis could probably be a solid choice to be a 7th-8th inning reliever this year. I suspect though the Indians will go to the more experienced (baseball, but not American baseball) Kobayashi to team up with Betancourt (and Perez in some instances, though he too could get time in the 6th-7th inning with Lewis as well, further strengthening the bullpen,) allowing Lewis to be pushed back to the 6th-7th inning in an effort to strengthen the bullpen and perhaps keep Lewis' innings from piling up too much in back-to-back seasons in his first two seasons as a reliever. If Kobayashi falters or has difficulty adjusting to American baseball, the Indians can rely more on Lewis (and Perez) like they did last season when he (they) teamed up with Betancourt to get the game to Borowski.
Francisco, admittedly, is essentially blocked by the glut of OFers we have (Dellucci, Michaels, Sizemore, Gutierrez, Blake if he remains in the OF, possibly Choo, though he'll probably start at AAA Buffalo as well,) but I think he can do a solid job as well when/if he's called upon. He is likely better off getting more ABs and working to improve his defense, which isn't bad by any means, but the Indians just want him to focus more on it while at Buffalo, as like most players coming up through a farm system, he's focused more on his offense than his defense.
I agree with you about Brown/Laffey/Lewis/Francisco - I think they are capable of providing meaningful contributions to the Indians this season. For the record, Sickels did rate Lewis a B-, which I think is more appropriate. However, I think the other three could have been rated higher, especially Brown, who I certainly think is worthy of a B- or even a B - he's arguably one of the more underrated prospects in the game, mostly because he doesn't hit for much power. However, his skill set reminds me a lot of Mark Grace and Sean Casey, and both of them turned out to be above-average to excellent players for several seasons, even with that lack of power, so again, I'm not worried that he's not ranked that highly - I think he could prove that the rankings that were given to him are lower than they should be, as I definitely think he should be in the Indians' Top 10, as high as #2 on the list, only behind Adam Miller, who has some legitimate concerns about his health, but his ceiling is still a frontline starter and he could still reach it, which is why John said he'd be a B+ or A- if not for his elbow, so the ceiling is still there.
In terms of it being odd that many lower-rated prospects with limited ceilings are finding places to contribute to a ML club that tied for the best record in the Majors in 2007, I think it goes to show that farm system and prospect rankings don't always tell the whole story - after all, just because you're a top-rated prospect doesn't guarantee success, just like being a prospect that isn't great in terms of potential or tools doesn't mean you can't be a solid or above-average MLer. Some have even become stars in their own right - look at Mike Piazza - he wasn't highly regarded at all when he was drafted in the 62nd Rd. - yet, he is being considered as one of the greatest power-hitting catchers in the history of the game. This again goes to show that rankings can only tell you so much about a farm system and the prospects in it.
Just my 2 cents - no offense to anyone.
Take care and have a great day!
by indiansfan on Jan 17, 2008 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Rosales, Cincinnati Reds
by dougdirt on Jan 16, 2008 8:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Manny Acosta's got a nice bullpen arm
by alexwithclass on Jan 21, 2008 6:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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