Kotsay for Devine and Richmond
That's the deal, here's the press release:
What a moronic move by Wren. You're telling me Devine wasn't worth $4M or whatever it would have taken to get Cameron?
I was initially fine with this. I thought, "sure, bring in Kotsay for a filler guy and see if he's healthy. Prolly a 50/50 shot that he's not done, and maybe he's servicable as a #8 hitter."
But now it looks like Cox is going to hit him 1 or 2 in the lineup and count on him to play 145 games. Oh, and word is we're now on the market for a "veteran" to shore up the bullpen.
And was it really necessary to throw in Richmond, who still has the potential to actually do something eventually?
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Note: I realize this isn't franchise-wrecking or anything; I just can't think of a reason for doing it at all. There's like a 50/50 chance it improves the team for 2008, and after that, it's all downside.
0 recs |
63 comments
Comments
Aren't you gifting $2M to the A's?
by parish on Jan 14, 2008 6:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
But apparently he was worth a MLB-ready reliever with closer upside (though I think he'll be stuck as more of a 7th inning guy; a good 7th inning guy, but a 7th inning guy) and another top 30 fringy guy.
by mraver on Jan 14, 2008 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crisp
by kofanis0880 on Jan 14, 2008 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Feels more like #2
by toonsterwu on Jan 14, 2008 6:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sickles ranking
- Devine - B
- Richmond - C+
by rayver723 on Jan 14, 2008 6:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
2nd and 7th
by parish on Jan 14, 2008 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if one were to guess
by sourstuff on Jan 14, 2008 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
top 20? yeah
barton
carlogon
gio
fautino
simmons
anderson
cunningham
carter
cahill
blevins
rodriguez
bailey
brown
mitchell
smith
... this is around where richmond fits in. that's 15.
by jpahk on Jan 14, 2008 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Um
He's at about the same level as Vince Mazzaro, better numbers, but probably worse stuff, and a little older. Mazzaro ranked #25 on Athletics Nation's recent Community Prospects list, so I'd slot Richmond in at the low 20's range.
Looked at another way, he's not that much different from Graham Godfrey, who Oakland got in the Marco Scutaro trade. He didn't crack the top 30.
by PaulThomas on Jan 14, 2008 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Deceptive
More important, to me, is the fact that Richmond for some reason dropped from a B on John's 2007 list to C+ on John's 2008 list.
by Yakker on Jan 14, 2008 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was the fact that
He could make something out of himself for sure, and giving him up on top of Devine was just stupid.
by mraver on Jan 14, 2008 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
I'm wondering if John dropped him because of "stuff." Because he seemed to like Richmond quite a bit in the 2007 BPB. It'll be interesting to see what John says in this year's book to explain the drop in grade.
Guess we'll have to wait and see...
by Yakker on Jan 14, 2008 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
man
by IHateMitchMustain on Jan 15, 2008 2:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I want to make one more comment
by IHateMitchMustain on Jan 15, 2008 2:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
richmond
looks like he was a GB machine in danville (2.26 GO/AO), and then not so much this year in rome (1.14). has anybody seen him pitch? i wonder if he made a mechanical change.
all in all, i'm very pleasantly surprised that the A's were able to get anything useful for kotsay, even after eating most of his salary. i would have been happy with just devine; devine+richmond is even sweeter.
by the way, does richmond even crack the rotation at stockton? it's getting a little ridiculous down there.
by jpahk on Jan 14, 2008 6:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
re
by bootsy on Jan 14, 2008 7:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good eye
by ToddyBaseball on Jan 15, 2008 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wren
They obviously have some reason to think Kotsay is healthy and will be productive for them. This is a guy whose OPS+ was 117 and 97 the two years in Oakland before he started to break down. He also appears to barely squeak in as a Type B, so they'll get a pick out of him after 08, FWIW.
IMO, the Braves front office has built enough credibility that we need to give them some time and see how this works out.
by Yakker on Jan 14, 2008 8:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If it was Schurholtz...
by mraver on Jan 14, 2008 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I Wonder
Unless JS has gone out to pasture and left the store unattended, but that doesn't seem likely to me.
by Yakker on Jan 14, 2008 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
re
by bootsy on Jan 15, 2008 12:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair Enough
Either way, this certainly seems like a questionable move. Time will tell how it works out, though the Braves organization has done an excellent job in recent years in acquiring players low and selling players high, IMO. Lots of that credit rightly goes to Scheurholz, but there were plenty of others (including the talent evaluators and the front office people like Wren) who helped make that happen.
by Yakker on Jan 15, 2008 1:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
done forget
I think JS is the kind of guy that would let Wren make a boneheaded deal; he's got the keys now, let him make his own mistakes.
by nevin on Jan 15, 2008 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Draft Pick
by NMUWildcat027 on Jan 15, 2008 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO
by Shamus on Jan 14, 2008 10:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
true...
by butkussayers on Jan 14, 2008 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't hear?
by Jay212033 on Jan 14, 2008 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the problem is
by nevin on Jan 15, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Counterpoint
The window's closing, and having Josh Anderson in CF isn't exactly a "win-now" mentality.
by Yakker on Jan 15, 2008 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Win-now
by parish on Jan 15, 2008 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You Know
by Yakker on Jan 15, 2008 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Big "IF"
by parish on Jan 15, 2008 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Seriously, sometimes people on this site really crack me up.
by Yakker on Jan 16, 2008 2:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty condescending
He hit .214 and slugged .296 last year in over 200 ABs. He is also coming off back surgery, so I am not quite sure what to expect from him diving after balls in centerfield. Yeah, he used to be a better player, but he was terrible last year.
Devine, on the other hand, supported his 1.59 ERA over 57 IP last year with a WHIP around 1 and 12.3 K/9.
Does this crack you up?
by parish on Jan 16, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Does Kotsay have some risk? Absolutely. But to say Devine has less because of some good ratios in a repeat performance at AA (and, to some extent, AAA) strikes me as pretty incorrect.
I'm sorry if that seems condescending.
by Yakker on Jan 16, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But....
You are referencing what Kotsay did 2-3 years ago. Last year in a fairly significant number of at bats he was awful as supported by the stats above. If the Braves were to get what Kotsay's recent track record suggests, I believe they would have preferred any outcome from Devine and Richmond, as the guys Kotsay will be replacing could outperform that at less of a cost in salary and prospects.
What's more, his month to month splits do not take him in the right direction:
June - .233 BA, .330 SLG
July - .240 BA, .320 SLG
August - .071 BA, .107 SLG
Maybe, I am hoping that Kotsay's '08 performance is equally unpredictable as Devine's because Kotsay's recent data points do not project anything of value.
by parish on Jan 16, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hurt
IMO, the Braves physical was probably quite thorough, especially as to his back which is an obvious source of concern for everyone. Now, he apparently passed the physical exam with flying colors. He's always had good range in CF, and he has a strong arm (used to pitch in college).
I think 2005's OPS+ around 100 is probably a fair projection for him in 2008, with the possible upside of his 2004 116 OPS+. And steady, if unremarkable CF defense.
by Yakker on Jan 16, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see...
by mraver on Jan 15, 2008 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're acting
Now, I'm not saying I'd sign Kotsay to a long-term deal, as it's quite likely he'll be a bad investment by age 35 or 36 or so, but there's nothing wrong IMO with a one-year stop-gap until Schafer or someone is ready to man CF.
And yes, Kotsay's two years removed from an OPS+ of 100 (and three years, and his last healthy season, removed from an OPS+ of 120) but that's not exactly "replacement level" for a plus defender in CF with a good arm.
by Yakker on Jan 16, 2008 2:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and
-- Kotsay's in a contract year and obviously needs to play well. If healthy (and he passed a rigorous physical), he'll play his heart out in Atlanta.
-- I remember the last time the Braves dealt with Billy Beane, a lot of folks jumped all over the Braves...Huddy's peripherals were dropping, Beane would just slot Meyer into the rotation and replicate Huddy's performance, and the Braves added insult to injury when they included a power bullpen arm like Juan Cruz (and Charles Thomas, although everyone pretty much agreed he was an aberration). Well, we know how that worked out.
by Yakker on Jan 16, 2008 2:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's certainly not as bad as the Kazmir deal
Moreover, to make this deal and then go out and look for more bullpen help (as the Braves' MLB.com guy, Mark Bowman claims they are doing) is asinine.
I like Kotsay, and I think there's about a 50/50 chance he helps the team this year. But common! The only way this deal works out well for the Braves is if Devine blows out his arm or just can't pitch at the majors for whatever reason.
Or I guess if Kotsay has a career year. But if you're counting on a career year, why not just ask for it from one of your internal options?
Yeesh.
by mraver on Jan 15, 2008 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Overreacting
by parish on Jan 15, 2008 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shanks...
That should set alarm bells ringing.
by JimmyJack on Jan 15, 2008 6:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Eh...
Joey Devine has certainly had a very nice run in AAA, and has the look of a quality reliever. Richmond is likely someone who's stuff won't play at the next level (which is about 2 levels away from where it matters). That having been said, I'd like to know where the Braves could have done better than Mark Kotsay for what they're paying on this market? I'm sure they tried on Mike Cameron, and Corey Patterson likely won't be accepting a one-year deal in this market. This is a team that is built to compete this year, and as a win-now club, it behooves them to add players who can, you know, help them win now. A healthy Mark Kotsay (and he's said to have passed a very grueling physical) will go a long way to that.
I don't want to be misread here, as I do think that Beane looks like he likely got the better of this trade, but I think that we'd be remiss to dismiss the reality of the situation. That reality is that a healthy Mark Kotsay goes a long way towards helping the Braves contend in 08, and will do more to ameliorate the club then would basically a rookie Joey Devine. Long-term? Who knows, likely Devine is more valuable. But for next year, and for their purposes, I think that the Braves did ok.
by GuyinNY on Jan 15, 2008 9:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
PS
PS - does anybody know what Kazmir's "choices" are that WC alluded to in yesterday's BP chat?
by GuyinNY on Jan 15, 2008 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
re: WC on Kazmir
by I Love Oakland As on Jan 15, 2008 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Obvious
Matt
by WayneCampbell05 on Jan 15, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Urban Dictionary is your friend. (ahem)
by drjayphd on Jan 16, 2008 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'll guess
by jpahk on Jan 15, 2008 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
out of curiosity
by jpahk on Jan 15, 2008 11:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Barton
by ajake57 on Jan 15, 2008 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whoops
my subjective impression is that denorfia is the only "true" CF on the roster. i think the organization wants to try out carlogon in center, though, and see if he can hack it. sweeney also was a very highly rated defender in a corner; he might be an adequate CF too. recall that both kotsay and damon were originally corner OFs on other teams. damon was shifted to CF by the A's, kotsay by the padres (before the A's traded for him), and both worked out great there.
either way, it's going to be a bit of a logjam out there. i get the impression that brown might only play vs LHP.
by jpahk on Jan 15, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No way Gonzalez is up before June
I'd expect the team to open with Denorfia, Buck and Sweeney starting, Brown platooning with Sweeney against lefties, and Cust as the fifth outfielder as well as the DH. In the unlikely event that DJ is still on the roster, though, I'd like to see them go with DJ platooning with Brown (DJ DH, Cust RF vs. righties, Cust DH, Brown RF against lefties) and call up Nick Blasi to be the backup OF. Sweeney should get regular playing time.
by PaulThomas on Jan 15, 2008 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
all that sounds reasonable
by jpahk on Jan 15, 2008 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a bad deal for the Braves
The Braves have Josh Anderson to back up Kotsay, Brandon Jones can play a little center, and Jordan Schafer knocking on the door. A set-up man to get a transitional centerfielder is not a terrible. Mark Kotsay plays fine defense and has a half decent bat. If he stays healthy, he's enough to keep them afloat until Brandon Jones and/or Schafer are ready to take over.
I'm sorry, I just don't believe relievers, even projectable late inning ones, are to be hoarded.
by smittybanton on Jan 15, 2008 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hoarding?
by parish on Jan 15, 2008 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A's OF
CF Chris Denorfia
LF Travis Buck
RF Ryan Sweeney vs RHP, Emil Brown vs LHP
by Zonis on Jan 16, 2008 2:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

by 










