Rolen/Glaus Swap

by M Gianella on Jan 12, 2008 7:34 PM EST Comment 25 comments

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3193566

ESPN.com is reporting that the Blue Jays and Cardinals have agreed to swap Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus.

It's an interesting trade for both teams. The Jays are getting a lot more upside with Rolen, but his injury problems are suddenly starting to seem chronic. Glaus certainly adds a lot of power the the Cardinal line-up, but their defense suddenly looks more than a little suspect.

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thanks

for adding what to we already had before in another diary...

--http://yankeesfuture.wordpress.com Bobby Mcnally (alias) "Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve."--Napoleon Hall

by bobbymcnally on Jan 12, 2008 7:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Oops

Didn't see the previous thread at the time I wrote this.

Roto Think Tank

by M Gianella on Jan 12, 2008 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bad Trade

Is it just me, or is this a bad trade for both teams?

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 12, 2008 8:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

How

I don't understand... how could this be a bad trade for BOTH teams??

by Andrew Friedman on Jan 12, 2008 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, Let's See

Toronto plays on an artificial surface. That can't bode well for Rolen's health. As someone else pointed out, it's a downgrade in D for the Cards without a clear advantage on offense. I don't like the trade from either side.

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 12, 2008 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

That turf will be a nightmare on Rolen's...shoulder? LOL

Manny Parra is my favorite pitcher.

by PujolsJunkie on Jan 12, 2008 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

back

not his shoulder, but rolen has had some back problems.

by fewgoodcards on Jan 12, 2008 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

offense

Why do you state there is not a clear advantage on offense? If healthy Rolen will have a higher BA but less power. Their OBP's may be similar. But StL is needing some power in the line-up pretty badly.

Trading the contracts is the big plus for the Cards. And Glaus may actually opt out after this season because of the lack of depth in FA 3b's. I am presuming StL can offer him arbitration should he opt out- his contract does not say his team can't but there have been contracts in the past that include such a provision. But if Glaus leaves the Cards he'll most likely do so as a type A free agent. Hopefully the Cardinal pitching staff nets us a top 15 pick in June 2009.

And all the above is presuming Glaus is not wanting some contract extension in exchange for him waiving his no trade clause.

StL is supposedly sending money to Toronto. I would expect something in the neighborhood of $3+ million. A lot of that will depend on the demands of Glaus. But with a pretty decent 2008 he may be wanting to test the FA market anyway. The next question is whether there is any fallout from the Mitchell report on Glaus that carries into the season. Apparently Glaus purchased HGH before it was banned so maybe there will not be much come of it all.

by acr on Jan 12, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

contract

according to the latest espn.com article the cardinals got glaus to agree to pick up his option already and there is no money going either way.

by fewgoodcards on Jan 12, 2008 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

just saw that

Well if that is the final deal- even swap for both players- then the Cardinals came out ahead. StL is building for 2009 anyway and a long 2008 would have made the Rolen v. TLR feud unbearable.

by acr on Jan 13, 2008 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

cardinals defense

i disagree on the cardinals defense suddenly being more than suspect. sure rolen to glaus is a downgrade, but i think the upgrade to izturis from eckstein more than makes up for it.

by fewgoodcards on Jan 12, 2008 9:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Man

I think St. Louis is a clear winner in this--they lose the malcontent and they upgrade their offense with a guy who at least can show some power when healthy, not to mention they rid themselves of the extra time on Rolen's contract.

Manny Parra is my favorite pitcher.

by PujolsJunkie on Jan 12, 2008 9:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Key Word is Healthy...

I'm guessing the Jays did this deal believing that Glaus is the bigger health risk to Rolen.

by Andrew Friedman on Jan 12, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sarcasm...oh how I miss you

Let's leave the sarcasm aside. Here's how I see the trade for both teams.

Rolen makes $12 million a year for the next three years. Glaus, on the other hand, makes $12.75 this year, with a player option for 2009, which he will decline if he can find a taker on the West Coast. This is a good salary move for the Cardinals, who are stuck with a very unhappy, very oft-injured Rolen.

From a defense perspective, Rolen is the clear winner here. Even hurt, he instantly upgrades the Blue Jays defense, and the cheering you hear is from the Jays staff. Glaus, on a good day, well, might not hurt himself. The crying you hear is the Cardinals staff, who lost Rolen and Eckstein in the same offseason (whoever said Itzuris to Eckstein is a big upgrade might want to check that).

All in all, I like the trade to the extent it gets Rolen out of town and away from LaRussa and it gives them some flexibility at the end of the year. If Rolen stays healthy this year (and I doubt that playing on turf with a bad back - btw, turf aggravates shoulder injuries when you DIVE on it), the Jays get a nice deal. But that is a big IF.

Toz Roto Think Tank

by Toz on Jan 13, 2008 11:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

A Couple of Things

1: Izturis isn't a downgrade from Eckstein defensively, thats for sure. If anything he has to be an upgrade. Having watched Eckstein for 100 games last year, his defense went down hill in a hurry. Little range, even worse arm than in years past.
Izturis at least can get to the ball, field it and make the throw to first. I always worried when Eckstein had to make a play.

2: I have a much better feeling that Glaus returns to his old form before Rolen does. If Rolen is healthy, I see maybe 20-25 HRs. If Glaus is healthy I see 35-40 HRs. Again, I think Glaus will have a healthier 2008 than Rolen if I had to choose one.
Getting off the carpet in Toronto will help.

That 35-40 HR power is huge for the Cardinals. Thats much better protection for Pujols even if he only hits .250-.260.
Glaus is a much better return than Chris Capuano which was the first Rolen trade we heard about this winter. How awful would the Cards lineup be if they had gotten Capuano for Rolen? You're talking an infield of Izturis, Miles, Kennedy on a lot of nights.

by UncleBuck44 on Jan 13, 2008 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jays Perspective

I like this deal from a Jays perspective.

The talk of Glaus hitting 35-40 HR again is ridiculous IMO. (for fairly obvious reasons)

Rolen plays better defense, runs better, and if Wells and Overbay rebound the Jays will overcome the slight drop off in offensive production.

Ahrens is still 3 years away, so the extra year of cost control at 3B will help in bridging the gap to him.

All of this assumes, of course, that Rolen still has something left in the tank. I believe he does.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. George Carlin

by GregJP on Jan 13, 2008 1:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Glaus

Why is the talk of Glaus hitting 35-40 HRs ridiculous?
He hit 38 in 2006 and 37 in 2005 in the National League. His main injury in 2007 was a foot injury.
I expect at least 30 HRs next year from Glaus and am pretty hopeful he can hit 35-36.

by UncleBuck44 on Jan 13, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Crazy

As much of a Cardinals' hater as I am, it pains me to write this. Let's see, the Cardinals would get a player two years younger. A player who hasn't posted an OPS below .805 since his sophomore season in 2002. Has more homers in over 1000 fewer ABs. Has 17 fewer walks in his career (in 250 fewer games). gasp He has 68 more Ks though.

Rolen's days of double digit steals are distant memories after numerous leg & foot injuries. Will be 33 the opening week of the season and on the downside of his career. Hasn't played more than 142 games since '03. And people think the Jays got a steal here? His Gold Gloves will look great on the DL. Mahalo

Matt

I am one of the bad things that happen to good people.

by WayneCampbell05 on Jan 13, 2008 6:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Glaus, Option

Why would the Cardinals insist that Glaus exercise his player option for 2009 now if there are so many worries about his health?
Sure its nice to know that Glaus is going to be the 3rd baseman and #4 hitter for the next two years but if he is so broken down, you really don't want him to be a Cardinal for two years especially for 11-12 million a year.

Clearly the Cardinals have no worries about his health. The shoulder is not a big worry. He had that problem in Anaheim and has since hit 37 and 38 HRs in a season. The shoulder problems are largely behind him unless a freak accident occurs.
The back problem appears to be as bad as Rolen's back problems, which is to say not bad. I can't find any mention of back problems plaguing Glaus in 2007. If it pops up in 2008, it can more than likely be healed by sitting a game or two and also not running on any form of turf for 80 games a year.
As for the foot problems, he had surgery on it and thats all they can do. I have more faith in Glaus' foot holding up in 2008 than Rolen's shoulder.
Steroid allegations hardly injury the body. I have also heard very little about steroid use causing foot injuries. If he is cleared and doesn't have to sit any games, that'll be the end of it. If you're thinking going off the steroids will hurt him, think again. He stopped recieving them in 2004. And if you think he's been on steroids the past few years as well, then the Mitchell report and whoever originally ratted him out missed that and he can still keep recieving them for 2008 and not get caught.

by UncleBuck44 on Jan 13, 2008 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Its a player option

The Cardinals made Glaus exercise his player option for 2009 so they weren't stuck without a 3rd baseman in 2009.

by UncleBuck44 on Jan 14, 2008 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Like it has been mention before,

The shoulder injury he has overcome and I don't remember him having any back injuries while he played in Toronto. As for the foot/knee injuries, there's no question he has them. But it seems pretty manageable to me. Sure he limps around and he has falldown range, but it doesn't affect his hitting. And from what I've heard, he was only really battling plantar fasciitis, while chronic is really about pain management and not much more (and he's shown that he can handle the pain).

It pains me to say this as a Jays fan, but I think JP is getting bamboozled. While the Jays are going to get back $3-4M that isn't nearly enough to offset the added risk. The Jays basically took on a higher injury risk (2 major surgeries on his shoulder with an extra surgery this winter), an extra year of contract (bad for players coming off major surgery), a average higher salary, not to mention that the Cards were desperate to trade him. I don't understand how the Cards managed to get the better end of the deal, but they did. I see the potential for this to become a Sirotka type fiasco. Hope I'm wrong.

And can people stop saying IF Rolen's healthy. That's an extremely big IF with not a good chance of happening. If I won the lottery I wouldn't have to work another day in my life. I'm not planning my life around that last statement.

by parrot11 on Jan 13, 2008 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Glaus

anyone thinking he is less of an injury risk is kidding themselves. Rolen is a risk, that's a fact.

But Glaus has not been "repaired".

BTW: plantar faschia is a ligament. And I don't believe they have a "plantar faschia" replacement surgery.

This is something that can be alleviated but doesn't go away. The surgery was on the nerves in his feet to help deaden the pain. This should tell you how serious the problem is. If this doesn't work his career is over. Because there is nothing I know of they can do after this.

You can wear orthotics, you can rest, etc. Now they are deadening the nerves which is crazy IMO.

http://www.bchealthguide.org/kbase/topic/major/hw114458/descrip.htm

by pedrophile on Jan 14, 2008 8:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

also

Looks like the Jays are sending St. Louis $1.8 million to complete the deal. Now THAT is a surprise.

by acr on Jan 14, 2008 9:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

possibly...

...I wonder if this $1.8 million is what StL owes Rolen for his signing bonus? He had a $5 million signing bonus which was spread over the length of his contract which would come out close to $1.8 million- $1.875 million actually.

by acr on Jan 15, 2008 1:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

money

Rolen's remaining deal was $11 mil per for three years and then a $4 mil "balloon" at the end.

Glaus' remaining deal was $12.75 and (with the otion exercised) 11.25

Cards will pay the balloon, Jays will pay (almost) the difference between Glaus' pay over the next two years and Rolen's (that 200K is probably some accounting adjustment)

In effect, the Jays pay almost exactly, over the next 2 years, what they would have paid if Glaus had stayed the next two years, and the Cardinals pay almost exactly what they would have paid Rolen.

The Cardinals are off the hook for $11 million in 2010, and the Jays gain that obligation.

From the Cards point of view, the simply get back in the market for a 3B one year earlier, and the Jay gain positional certainty (assuming health) an extra year. I don't know the state of the Cards' minor league system at 3B, but for the Jays, there's no hope of brining up a 3B for at least three years so that extra year isn't a burden for them - it's a big plus.

by WillRain on Jan 15, 2008 2:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs